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Discussion in 'Blinded by the Lombardis: Patriots Forum' started by tims4wins, Feb 11, 2019.
Browns signed Hunt
When is the NFL expected to rule on him?
It's a fascinating reality where the Chiefs are pressured to get rid of Hunt (which probably cost them a Super Bowl) and the Browns will probably get mild scrutiny for signing him 73 days later with nary a factual change in his circumstance.
Dorsey’s statement —
Dorsey is good.
1. I wanted the Jets to sign him but I don’t think that was even considered.
2. Pft going into comedy writing?:
“At a time when the Bears seemed to be flirting with the possibility of adding running back Kareem Hunt, another team has beaten them to it.”
Yeah, this happened with Aroldis Chapman. It's like he was able to get a second chance, but it had to be with a different team.
Very curious to see how much he signed for. Cleveland is probably a good landing spot. They have Chubb so they can survive without him as he serves his suspension.
This isn't quite right. I believe Hunt was suspended indefinitely (on the Commissioner's list) when the Chiefs dumped him, so they weren't going to have him for the playoffs either way.
That said, you are right that they could've held onto him and said "We're going to let the NFL's process take its course, followed by working with Kareem, psychologists and other experts on a rehabilitation program to see if he can get to a place where we're comfortable with him taking the field in a Chiefs uniform again."
if you say so. I think their RBs did just fine against us anyways.
Seems like an odd-fit with Duke Johnson and Nick Chubb already there. I guess there is the Ken Dorsey connection but I wonder if there was very little market for Hunt. Perhaps CLE sees him as a potential trade chip next season once he is off suspension and plays a few games.
Not quite like what Hunt did to the Pats
John..... Ken was just hired by the Bills as their QB coach.
That link should come with a warning that it is going to autoplay a Julian Edelman not talking about PED hit job by Mike Florio. Felt like I was Rick Rolled clicking on that link.
Thank you SteelerNation for a big 9 years...time to move on and forward.......... #NewDemands
Adam SchefterVerified account @AdamSchefter 36m36 minutes ago
Antonio Brown has not been traded nor has he been released. But Brown wants a trade and he officially has requested that from the Steelers, per source.
There's no way for the Steelers to trade him without taking a massive cap hit, right?
He counts $22M against cap if on the team. $21M if traded by 5th day of league year when 2.5M bonus due.
Demaryius Thomas cut from the Texans. I think he’s a lock for a reunion with Josh...
Agree that he’s gone but they definitely take a big hit. Think they have some carryover from 2018 to soften the blow though.
Yeah, Brown is going to take up a big chunk of their cap. According to overthecap.com, the Steelers have about $19M in cap space.
As others have said, Thomas might be worth a look on an incentive laden deal with little to no guarantee but I'm not expecting much.
If Brown were to agree to a contract restructure, I'd take him with open arms on the Patriots. The guy works his tail off at route running. If Gronk comes back, a Gronk/Edelman/Brown trio with a Michel/White/Burkhead backfield would be lethal.
Pittsburgh always churns out great WRs (Plaxico, Ward, Holmes, Sanders, Brown, JuJu). As crazy as this sounds, I don't think AB will excel in another system with another QB. I'd hate if the Patriots showed any interest in him. He's selfish, always on social media, and has big issues outside of the field.
Yeah, sounds pretty crazy. All of the WRs you mentioned that left Pittsburgh went on to have good careers elsewhere. Plaxico was really good for the Giants before shooting himself, Sanders has been great in Denver, and Santonio Holmes was really good for the Jets. I don't think AB is a system player.
Eh.... He'll be 32, his numbers have declined 4 years in a row, he's coming off a torn Achilles that happened late in the season, and he's always played way softer than his size would indicate. I'd rather they throw some darts at younger receivers.
Other than Moss, have they had any luck bringing in seemingly over the hill vets for one last hurrah? Most don't even make it through camp.
I've got to think the Steelers would prefer to trade him to an NFC team rather than release him and risk him being a Brown or Patriot. My money is on him becoming a 49er in exchange for a couple of future picks.
what could they even get for Brown? His value over and above his cap hit has got to be not that great, even if he remains a top-5 WR.
Maybe some star-starved team might see marketing value in him, but I'm not sure how much relief the Steelers can realistically expect.
With his public trade demand, the price on him has to be lowering considering the contract he has. If they trade Brown post-June 1, they only have like $7 million in dead cap hit for him. I think they wait it out.
wait you think they cut him?
This is not quite right. Waiting only allows them to spread out the cap hit over two years but the overall cap hit is the same. In Brown's case it is actually $2.5M more since they would then need to pay him a 2.5 roster bonus that is due 5th day of league year.
How much would count this year vs next seems to be up to debate. I am not entirely sure. I have seen the $7 out there but most reports seem to say $12M and $11M.
Either way, seems like a foolish move for Pitt. Cost them more and imo probably limits options as other teams may move in another direction.
FWIW, any team trading for him would have Brown on essentially a 3 yr 39M deal with a cap hit a little over 15M in 2019. That's assuming it's before his bonus is due.
The price for the Steelers to trade AB to the Pats would be like 10 #1's. Would definitely be fun to see him in this offense though. It would be like 2007 all over again.
I was going off what a reporter was saying about it. I went and looked it up on Spotrac. If they cut or trade him now until March 17, the dead money on this year's cap is $21.1 million. From March 17 until June 1, it is $23.6 million. Post June 1 cut or trade is only $12.1 million on this year's cap with the other $11.5 million on 2020 cap.
can someone explain to me why the acquiring team in a trade scenario wouldn't assume his cap hit for this coming league year? I thought it was only the amortized signing bonus that remained with the signing team.
As much as I like AB he's no Randy. With his stature I'd put him more in line with Cooks than moss.
The signing bonus that zooms on to the Steelers' cap totals $21,120,000, which can be spread out over 2 years post-June 1. His cap number for another team would be $15,125,000 for 2019, which is the salary plus roster bonus. In 2020 and 2021, his salaries are $11.3M and $12.5M. The Steelers restructured his deal this past March to create cap space and create this mess for themselves.
Yeah, there's been some shitty reporting out there about this. Everyone is reporting his pro-rated bonus money as $7,040,000. That's right. For 2019. But the Steelers spread it over 5 years and his contract has three more years on it so you have to look at the total bonus money that he's received, which is 3x$7,040,000, because that's what gets accelerated if they get rid of him.
Here's how you get there. In 2017, they restructured and gave him a $19 million signing bonus. Pro-rated over 5 years that put $3.8 million per year on to their cap number each of the next 5 years after 2017. They have 3 years left, which is $11,400,000. In 2018, they converted a $6 million bonus plus most of his salary above the league minimum for a vet into a signing bonus and gave it to him in cash. That also has to be amortized over 5 years. That's about $2.4 million per year and there are four years left for an additional $9.6 million give or take. All that gets accelerated if they get rid of him.
Each year that goes by the get an additional $7 million cap relief if they cut or trade. So, if he plays for them this year then he costs them about $21 million and costs $21 million against the cap but they get $7 million in cap relief. It would cost them $14 million to cut him in 2020 and $7 million to cut him in 2021.
Edit: Actually, I think some of the numbers are off just a bit. I think the 2018 conversion of roster bonus and salary are only pro-rated over four years and so it's a bit higher than I have, but the main number -- $7 million a year for the next 3 -- is accurate.
Obviously different types of receivers but I think his impact on the offense would be similar. Cooks couldn’t run the whole route tree like AB would be able to do.
If you had Gronk, AB, and Edelman, teams would be absolutely screwed unless they were able to harass Brady at the LOS.
He might be nearing his prime but AB is still one of the 5 best receivers in football.
There is a 0 percent chance the Steelers trade him to NE. Given his contract and what it would take to acquire him there would be close to a 0% chance the Patriots would trade for him.
All I will say about the AB/Cooks comparison is that if the Rams had the former instead of the latter, there's a decent chance half of us would be avoiding this forum like the plague and the other half are actively sniping at each other over whether or not the dynasty is dead. He's not necessarily catching all kinds of 50/50 balls (though he can because he's tough as hell and his hands are godly), but he usually doesn't need to because he's arguably the best route runner in the league and is always open.
And yet, in 6 games against the Pats, AB has averaged 6 catches a game about 8 yards and scored a total of 4 TDs (and his team is 2-4).
Not many teams that AB would make better and I think you could plug him in in just about any close game and speculate it might have been different.
Probably a question for a different thread, but if we're going to play the game of things we're grateful about the Rams Super Bowl roster, I'd probably go with getting really lucky that they didn't have much at the tight end position to speak of. If they had even a modest upgrade over Higbee, I'm not sure that the Patriots could have been as flexible with Chung and certainly once he got hurt it would have forced Jackson and Jones into more defined and easier to predict roles.
AB is undoubtedly better than cooks. All I was saying is, if there was a graph of receivers by talent, ranging from the Cordarrelle Pattersons of the world to Jerry Rice, AB would be closer to--the very good--Cooks than Moss. This very well could boil down to how high we rate AB though.
Does he strike anyone as spiteful? If cut, would he sign with the Pats similar to how Revis did (2 year deal that’s really a 1 year)? No, the Pats don’t need him. But I love the taste of salty tears so anything that causes 31 fan bases (and esp those from Pitt/Balt/Indy/NY) to cry is ok with me.
I was thinking specifically of the two pivotal defensive plays of the game involving Cooks, had AB been in Cooks’ exact position.
Those numbers strike me as quite good even including the game last year where he left very early with an injury. Give him decent output there and that puts him roughly at his career averages over 16 games. The Pats have been mostly very good at limiting his monster games, of course.
Edit: Don’t mean to derail. I ride hard for AB as a player.
I don't think there's a chance he'll be cut. Any team that trades for him is effectively getting a 3 year contract at 47 million. If the Steelers pick up his roster bonus it's a 3/45 deal. Some team is going to jump at that. Colts, Texans, Browns, Jets, they are all flush. And there's pretty much zero downside past year 1 since the acquiring team unless it restructures him can cut him freely without consequence each year.
Steelers will get a pick for him if they want one. Maybe they'll take a lower pick than they could to have some control over where he goes but I have a feeling there will be teams willing to take him on for his existing contract rather than going to the free agency market to pay more for Golden Tate or 75 percent as much to take a chance on Adam Humphries.
The glorious schnadenfreude nut-punch is that they restructured Brown's contract in 2018 to free up money to place the tag on Leveon Bell.
Also, this link is just a fun read in hindsight: http://steelcurtainrising.com/2017/...e-franchise-tag-leveon-bell-free-agency.html/
Where you are getting 47M? Spotrac and overthecap both have his 2019-2021 salaries at $12,625,000, $11,300,000, and $12,500,000 for a total of about $36.5M (plus the $2.5M roster bonus for 2019 if the acquiring team picks him up before that's due).
Of course, this just makes your point even more strongly. That is a great contract for the production in this market for an acquiring team. Put the off-field stuff aside and all 31 other teams would probably love to have Antonio Brown playing for them on that contract.
I think the real question any team has to ask about Brown is whether he has entered a phase in his life where he is just not right mentally/psychologically to a level that will be just destabilizing to your team. Shooting his way out of Pittsburgh is a pretty odd thing to do: They are one of the most consistently successful teams in the league, they have a top tier QB who fed him plenty of targets, the coach coddled him, they paid him what he wanted, etc. None of the typical reasons for guys wanting to move on really apply. So if he is going to shoot his way out of Pittsburgh for whatever crazy reason, how long will it take until he decides that he doesn't want to play for the Jets anymore?
Blount did it and that worked out okay for us. I have to believe he's motivated to go out his first year and put out monster numbers. The two years after that though could see him fall back into his usual shtick.
Definitely seems like AB has reached the TO with Philly/Dallas stage of his career. Barring injury, he has some good-to-elite years left but the headaches aren't going away. If I'm a team like the Jets with a young QB, a new HC, and no real veteran locker room presence, I'm staying, far, far away.
Just bad math on my part. Yeah, you're right. I had in mind $12 million a year but then I get confused.
Indy and SF have lots of cap room, so I gotta imagine it's one of those 2. I'd think as much as Pittsburgh wouldn't want to deal him to Cleveland or NE, that Indy is also a potential playoff rival and all things equal they'd rather send him to play with JG.
If Al Davis was still alive there's no doubt he'd be on the Raiders. Skins have some space I think, and Snyder loves "winning" the offseason.