2017 Yankees Offseason Discussion

[jon abbey]

That is probably connected to what he means here:

"That's why I think it's important to talk to my family and know what they're thinking," Girardi said. "I really enjoy managing. I really enjoy the competition, the relationships, I enjoy watching people have success. And that's all part of it, but again, they make a lot of sacrifices so I can do this, and that's why I need to talk to them first."

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/259694022/joe-girardi-talks-future-with-brian-cashman/

 

[EvilEmpire]

Have the Marlins hired anyone yet?

Edit: If he does go, I really just hope it is his call for family or whatever and the Yankees haven't made a crappy final offer to force the issue like they did to Torre.

2nd edit: Completely forgot about Mattingly; thought Jeter had totally cleaned house.

 

[Couperin47]

He's gone, why hasn't the new required thread not yet been started ?

 

[VORP Speed]

I guess Cashman was reading the playoff game threads and realized Girardi is a knucklehead.

 

[bankshot1]

Even with the foreshdowing, I'm surprised that the Ys let him go.

I wonder what the back story is.

 

[rembrat]

Wow! I'm legit shocked.

 

[Boston Brawler]

Yeah this wasn't mutual and Girardi didn't want to go.

 

[RedOctober3829]

It was not a mutual decision. Yankees did not bring him back. Shocking.


“With a heavy heart, I come to you because the Yankees have decided not to bring me back.”—statement from Joe Girardi

 

[NYCSox]

Even with the foreshdowing, I'm surprised that the Ys let him go.

I wonder what the back story is.

I don't think there's much of a back story. He's not that good a manager. He let a guy with 70 good innings in his career pitch with the season on the line against McCann instead of using Chapman. He also probably pissed off Sabathia and other starters by yanking them in the fifth with sizable leads. So no I'm not surprised. I don't like the possibility of an upgrade that's for sure.

 

[jon abbey]

I don't think there's much of a back story. He's not that good a manager. He let a guy with 70 good innings in his career pitch with the season on the line against McCann instead of using Chapman. He also probably pissed off Sabathia and other starters by yanking them in the fifth with sizable leads. So no I'm not surprised. I don't like the possibility of an upgrade that's for sure.

Those aren't good examples. Kahnle pitched better than Chapman the last few weeks and starters get pulled early in the postseason if they're not dominant and if there is a great deep bullpen behind them. Girardi managed pretty well in the playoffs outside of the overblown non-replay call, this seems to have been about the relationships with his players all along, maybe the Gary Sanchez thing this summer was part of it although honestly I thought he handled that ok too.

 

[NYCSox]

I meant during the season WRT pulled starters. Especially CC who has an outside shot at 300 wins. I get pulling early in the playoffs.

But I disagree about Kahnle/McCann. You have to end that inning right then and there and Kahnle was struggling that inning even with the Gatiis K.

 

[ThePrideofShiner]

But I disagree about Kahnle/McCann. You have to end that inning right then and there and Kahnle was struggling that inning even with the Gatiis K.

He was saving him for Game 8. Not using Chapman in Game 7 was one of a string of terrible decisions that Girardi made in regard to the bullpen in Games 6 and 7.

 

[terrynever]

I meant during the season WRT pulled starters. Especially CC who has an outside shot at 300 wins. I get pulling early in the playoffs.

But I disagree about Kahnle/McCann. You have to end that inning right then and there and Kahnle was struggling that inning even with the Gatiis K.

You really think a manager worries about a pitcher's career win totals? Maybe Joe is smart enough to understand Ws don't mean diddly anymore when evaluating pitchers.

 

[jon abbey]

More and more teams are pulling some SPs after two times through the lineup. Tampa started this (and it sounds like Jim Hickey may have quit over it), but that is what Girardi did with CC at times.

 

[Murderer's Crow]

CC should not be used as a real example of this. He consistently would look great and then the wheels would fall off almost immediately. It was this that forced Girardi's quick hook on him, not advanced metrics or trends. Same thing happened in two of his playoff starts.

 

[NYCSox]

You really think a manager worries about a pitcher's career win totals? Maybe Joe is smart enough to understand Ws don't mean diddly anymore when evaluating pitchers.

Not that Girardi would care (he obviously didn't) but that CC would not like it one bit and would cause him to turn against Girardi. Players didn't like Girardi and this would certainly be one of the reasons.

 

[terrynever]

Not that Girardi would care (he obviously didn't) but that CC would not like it one bit and would cause him to turn against Girardi. Players didn't like Girardi and this would certainly be one of the reasons.

CC was unhappy because he never wants to come out of a game. Ever. Your point has merit.
I suspect Girardi got fired because he embarrassed Sanchez publicly over his fielding flaws in August, which could be linked to Chapman's "like" of the infamous tweet following Joe's playoff brain freeze. Not to mention, it was Sanchez who disputed the hit batsman in Game 2 of the LDS and Girardi completely ignored his catcher and declined to review the play. I thought at the time this was a terrible lack of respect for his player by Girardi.

 

[jon abbey]

CC was unhappy because he never wants to come out of a game. Ever.
I suspect Girardi got fired because he embarrassed Sanchez publicly in August, which may have led to Chapman's "like" of the infamous tweet following Joe's playoff brain freeze. Not to mention, it was Sanchez who disputed the hit batsman in Game 2 of the LDS and Girardi completely ignored his catcher and declined to review the play. I thought at the time it was a terrible lack of respect for his player by Girardi.

Although Sanchez himself said after that that he wasn't totally sure and didn't push it as hard as he could have if he had been sure. That could have maybe been covering for Joe a bit, but it seemed honest to me.

 

[terrynever]

Although Sanchez himself said after that that he wasn't totally sure and didn't push it as hard as he could have if he had been sure. That could have maybe been covering for Joe a bit, but it seemed honest to me.

Just throwing this out there. Do you think Joe has a weakness dealing with Latino players? With more and more Latino players earning jobs in the big leagues, managers and coaches need to be at least partially fluent, I think, in Spanish. I give the Red Sox props for hiring Alex Cora.
Or I could be an idiot.

 

[jon abbey]

I don't know about a weakness, but it certainly couldn't hurt to have a bilingual manager.

 

[jon abbey]

A Cubs blogger proposes Betances (2 years of control) for Schwarber (4 years of control):

https://cubbiescrib.com/2017/10/18/chicago-cubs-dellin-betances-make-sense-cubs/

I'd do that, Schwarber is still just 24 and could be really valuable even as a DH against righties, 27 HRs in 340 ABs against RHP this year. Here are his homers from this year overlaid with YS, he'd lose a few to left center but man would he love the short RF:

 

[simplicio]

That would be a horrendous deal for the Cubs.


So watch it happen, I guess.

 

[Murderer's Crow]

Oh god. I’d do it also but Schwarber looks like a lost cause.

 

[Wingack]

A Cubs blogger proposes Betances (2 years of control) for Schwarber (4 years of control):

https://cubbiescrib.com/2017/10/18/chicago-cubs-dellin-betances-make-sense-cubs/

I'd do that, Schwarber is still just 24 and could be really valuable even as a DH against righties, 27 HRs in 340 ABs against RHP this year. Here are his homers from this year overlaid with YS, he'd lose a few to left center but man would he love the short RF:

I heard this proposed during the playoffs after the Cubs lost on Buster Olney’s Podcast.

I fully support this move. And I think it makes so much sense I bet it happens. I also think Theo and Cash would love to do a deal like this together.

 

[Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat]

That seems like a horrible deal for the Cubs.

 

[Wingack]

That seems like a horrible deal for the Cubs.

The Yankees could sweeten it a little to make up for the difference years of control. But I could totally see it being down with those two as the central pieces.

 

[NYCSox]

That seems like a horrible deal for the Cubs.

It's brutal. And if the price for Schwarber is "reliever whose manager stopped trusting in the playoffs" they might as well deal him for Giles who's 2 1/2 years younger and has three years of control. Plus Giles is less likely to have been Proctored at this point.

But yeah this blogger is a moron or Wingack's alter ego.

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

Just throwing this out there. Do you think Joe has a weakness dealing with Latino players? With more and more Latino players earning jobs in the big leagues, managers and coaches need to be at least partially fluent, I think, in Spanish. I give the Red Sox props for hiring Alex Cora.
Or I could be an idiot.

Trade you Cora for Judge straight up?

 

[jon abbey]

There's nothing wrong with Betances' arm, and he's made the All-Star team all four years he's been in the league, which is pretty insane for someone who's mostly been a setup guy. His mechanics have been the issue, not his arm.

 

[NYCSox]

I'd be very leery of trading all that much for a 30 year old reliever who has thrown over 300 innings the past four seasons. It would be GM malpractice to do otherwise. So I'm sure the Reds will be very interested.

 

[Murderer's Crow]

Schwarber is about as valuable as any of the dozen power hitters on the market right now. He's a notch above Yonder Alonso at this point. Betances, in a reliever centric league, has good, if not equal, value if teams see him as a potential 8th inning solution.

 

[jon abbey]

I thought Schwarber was a DH who couldn't hit lefties, but UZR actually has him as a positive in the outfield. I'm not sure I believe that, but I was expecting much worse numbers there when I just looked it up.

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=16478&position=OF

 

[Murderer's Crow]

I thought Schwarber was a DH who couldn't hit lefties, but UZR actually has him as a positive in the outfield. I'm not sure I believe that, but I was expecting much worse numbers there when I just looked it up.

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=16478&position=OF

He has that reputation because he couldn't cut it at catcher. If he had ANY value at catcher and could be a platoon partner with Sanchez (Sanchez DH against righties) then this would be a monster move for us. Unfortunately, not an option.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

He has that reputation because he couldn't cut it at catcher. If he had ANY value at catcher and could be a platoon partner with Sanchez (Sanchez DH against righties) then this would be a monster move for us. Unfortunately, not an option.

That and he put up a -1.4 dWAR in 110 games this year in LF.

 

[Murderer's Crow]

Are the Yankees waiting until after tonight to announce Cashman's new deal? Seems odd that there hasn't been any news.

 

[jon abbey]

That could be, clearly he's not going anywhere but it is a little strange they didn't announce it yet.

 

[Wingack]

Tanaka watch begins.

 

[Wingack]

Heyman reports Yankees still haven’t heard from Tanaka.

 

[jon abbey]

He has until tomorrow midnight to decide/announce it, presumably his agent and Cashman are talking about potential extensions now.

 

[Murderer's Crow]

Tanaka not opting out per MLBTR

 

[jon abbey]

Wow, that is HUGE.

 

[jon abbey]

That really is a big win for Cashman, I don't know how he didn't have to give a 4th year after Tanaka just looked like an ace in the postseason.

 

[jon abbey]

So now NY has Severino, Tanaka, Gray and Montgomery with CC wanting to come back and Otani potentially still a possibility. Masterful job by Cashman considering not one of those guys was definitely in place for 2018 coming into 2017.

 

[terrynever]

Tanaka said it was "a simple decision." My guess is he feels like he let the team down for most of the season and shouldn't seek a pay raise.

 

[terrynever]

So now NY has Severino, Tanaka, Gray and Montgomery with CC wanting to come back and Otani potentially still a possibility. Masterful job by Cashman considering not one of those guys was definitely in place for 2018 coming into 2017.

I give Girardi credit for sticking with Severino and giving Monty a chance.

Developing two young starters not enough to save Joe and his pitching coach, Larry Rothschild.

 

[EvilEmpire]

I'm trying to remember, but back when the contract was being negotiated, didn't the Tanaka camp say something to the effect that Tanaka just wanted to make sure he was comfortable playing in NY? If so, maybe it wasn't agent spin after all.

 

[jon abbey]

Tanaka said it was "a simple decision." My guess is he feels like he let the team down for most of the season and shouldn't seek a pay raise.

My guess (and it really is a guess) is that Cashman told him nicely that if he opted out, NY would wish him the best of luck and move in a different direction.

I give Girardi credit for sticking with Severino and giving Monty a chance.

Developing two young starters not enough to save Joe and his pitching coach, Larry Rothschild.

This could have just as easily been the player personnel guys behind those two, though. Neither of those two made it hard to stick with them all season (especially Severino) and it's not like NY really had options in AAA, they gave freaking Caleb Smith starts when they needed someone over the summer.

 

[jon abbey]

Katie Sharp‏ @ktsharp 4m4 minutes ago

Masahiro Tanaka AL Ranks Since 2014 (min. 400 IP):

WAR - 9th
K% - 8th
BB% - 4th
WHIP - 4th
ERA - 12th

 

[NYCSox]

Hmmm. Wonder if someone thinks he can’t pass a physical?

 

[Murderer's Crow]

Hmmm. Wonder if someone thinks he can’t pass a physical?

When will people stop bringing up his elbow? We already know he's got a tear but at the time, they said it was minor enough to pitch through and that was years ago. If it was a problem, they would have taken care of it already. Instead, he's pitched very well and had no health issues at all. On the list of injuries to worry about, his elbow is probably near the bottom in my opinion.

Sure, it could limit his potential contract, but it's not a secret to anyone.