2017 NFL draft discussion/mock drafts

[Saints Rest]

In their defense, they did get Moss, Welker, and Mayo with their 2007 picks.

Sure. The 2007 offseason was good, but I was referring to the quality of the actual players picked. Other than Meriweather, they did not get a single meaningful snap, let alone season, out of any of the other guys:
1 Brandon Meriweather, FS, Miami (Fla.)
4 Kareem Brown, DL, Miami (Fla.)
5 Clint Oldenburg, OL, Colorado State
6 Justin Rogers, OLB, Southern Methodist
6 Mike Richardson, CB, Notre Dame
6 Justise Hairston, RB, Central Connecticut State
6 Corey Hilliard, OL, Oklahoma State
7 Oscar Lua, LB, USC
7 Mike Elgin, OL, Iowa

Interesting sidenote to your notes about that year's drat picks returning Moss, Welker and Mayo. The 3rd round pick that year initiated a series of trades that led to Matthew Slater.

 

[RedOctober3829]

For a Patriots diamond in the rough candidate, watch out for New Hampshire RB Dalton Crossan. He had a brilliant career at UNH putting up over 5,000 all purpose yards with 36 career TDs(27 rushing, 8 receiving, and 1 KOR). He's probably going to be a UDFA but could be one that can make a PS. And yes, he was a lacrosse standout in high school.

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

Aren't the Pats required to add a guy named Malcolm each offseason?

 

[Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt]

I thought Mike Richardson played some meaningful CB snaps for us, no?

 

[soxhop411]

I have a honest question for the ITP folks. doesn't it seems like the mock NFL drafts (by the "experts") seem to be more miss than hit for the patriots (compared to the rest of the league). Many times in Draft GDT the pats are picking someone that we didn't expect.

 

[pappymojo]

I assume that is a result of the experts and the majority of NFL teams using the same evaluation services, while the Patriots and a small handful of other teams do it internally.

 

[Unin10D]

Sure. The 2007 offseason was good, but I was referring to the quality of the actual players picked. Other than Meriweather, they did not get a single meaningful snap, let alone season, out of any of the other guys:
1 Brandon Meriweather, FS, Miami (Fla.)
4 Kareem Brown, DL, Miami (Fla.)
5 Clint Oldenburg, OL, Colorado State
6 Justin Rogers, OLB, Southern Methodist
6 Mike Richardson, CB, Notre Dame
6 Justise Hairston, RB, Central Connecticut State
6 Corey Hilliard, OL, Oklahoma State
7 Oscar Lua, LB, USC
7 Mike Elgin, OL, Iowa

Interesting sidenote to your notes about that year's drat picks returning Moss, Welker and Mayo. The 3rd round pick that year initiated a series of trades that led to Matthew Slater.

2007 was a pretty shit draft in general. First round had some good names sprinkled in there (Megatron, Revis, Joe Thomas, AP) but beyond the first round no one really rings out. I guess Weddle was the best post first rounder taken. Also, JaMarcus Russell...

 

[Super Nomario]

I assume that is a result of the experts and the majority of NFL teams using the same evaluation services, while the Patriots and a small handful of other teams do it internally.

This is my opinion, too. Patriots aren't part of BLESTO / National, which from my understanding is the basis for the initial lists for most teams, as well as the Kipers of the world. Beyond that, I don't think the Patriots leak as much as most teams, and the Patriots shift what they do more frequently than most teams and are deliberately looking to be outliers a lot of the time.

 

[Papelbon's Poutine]

That, along with the very basic premises that a) they don't draft for need as much as many teams do and b) they generally draft at the back end of the rounds, so further you get away from the known quantities, the harder it is to peg who anyone will take.

 

[pappymojo]

Do (or maybe should) the Patriots subscribe to a BLESTO / National service in an attempt to better understand where the other teams value players?

I am reminded of the Tavon Wilson pick and how some thought he was drafted too high (Note: I am not saying that I think he was drafted too high, because I am not informed enough to have an opinion on where a player should be drafted). I can understand and appreciate the idea that Belichick makes his picks based on who he thinks is the best player available for the Patriot's needs, but I can't see how it would hurt to have a deeper understanding of where the rest of the league values a player.

 

[RedOctober3829]

Do (or maybe should) the Patriots subscribe to a BLESTO / National service in an attempt to better understand where the other teams value players?

I am reminded of the Tavon Wilson pick and how some thought he was drafted too high (Note: I am not saying that I think he was drafted too high, because I am not informed enough to have an opinion on where a player should be drafted). I can understand and appreciate the idea that Belichick makes his picks based on who he thinks is the best player available for the Patriot's needs, but I can't see how it would hurt to have a deeper understanding of where the rest of the league values a player.

Teams don't need to subscribe to a national service. Their scouting department rates players and they order their draft board based on what they look for. Every team tends to be different. If Belichick wants to know how another team values a player, he'll pick up the phone and call somebody.

 

[Jeff Mullen]

https://www.nfldraftgeeks.com/

 

[Jeff Mullen]

Looking for replies, suggestions, etc...

NFLDraftGeeks@usa.com

 

[Shelterdog]

Teams don't need to subscribe to a national service. Their scouting department rates players and they order their draft board based on what they look for. Every team tends to be different. If Belichick wants to know how another team values a player, he'll pick up the phone and call somebody.

Bill also gets a ton of information from GMs, scouts, and some media guys. I'll bet he has as good a sense of where people are going to go as anyone. For example, what's more useful in figuing out what teams think--Blesto/national services or the discussions Dante has with every major line coach in d-1?

 

[Super Nomario]

Do (or maybe should) the Patriots subscribe to a BLESTO / National service in an attempt to better understand where the other teams value players?

I am reminded of the Tavon Wilson pick and how some thought he was drafted too high (Note: I am not saying that I think he was drafted too high, because I am not informed enough to have an opinion on where a player should be drafted). I can understand and appreciate the idea that Belichick makes his picks based on who he thinks is the best player available for the Patriot's needs, but I can't see how it would hurt to have a deeper understanding of where the rest of the league values a player.

Belichick talked about this in one of the Holley books (I think War Room), about how it's hard to peg guys who get "late buzz" and you have to sometimes draft them ahead of where they "should" go, and sometimes you guess right, and sometimes you guess wrong and could have gotten him later. He used Sebastian Vollmer as an example, a guy who wasn't a second-rounder based on tape but they determined they needed to take him there if they wanted him.

Belichick was wrong on Wilson, who wasn't a fit, but the scouting community was wrong as well. Wilson started last year for the Lions and is heading into his sixth NFL season. He's a viable NFL safety, and he should have been a Combine invite. And Belichick's willingness to go off the grid has netted us guys like Vollmer, Harmon, and Butler.

 

[Otto]

Do (or maybe should) the Patriots subscribe to a BLESTO / National service in an attempt to better understand where the other teams value players?

I am reminded of the Tavon Wilson pick and how some thought he was drafted too high (Note: I am not saying that I think he was drafted too high, because I am not informed enough to have an opinion on where a player should be drafted). I can understand and appreciate the idea that Belichick makes his picks based on who he thinks is the best player available for the Patriot's needs, but I can't see how it would hurt to have a deeper understanding of where the rest of the league values a player.

I don't subscribe to BLESTO or National either, yet I get both reports every year. If I can get them, I'm going to guess the Patriots could too, if they wanted to.

More to the point, those reports don't tell you much. Scroll through the websites of NFL teams who participate in BLESTO or National and look at their BLESTO/National scouts. After the scouting assistants, those guys are the newest, youngest, greenest scouts they have. So while those lists provide a good starting point in July/August, they're not going to tell you what round a player will be drafted in the following May.

 

[The Big Red Kahuna]

https://www.nfldraftgeeks.com/

Quick answer... don't quit your day job.

Longer answer... what is it you are trying to do there? There is nothing really "to" the site. Mock drafts link just lists a bunch of players without any commentary. There isn't anything offered that can't be found in 1,000 other sites on web. If you really wanted to build a site around the draft, I would think you'd need to offer something akin to mlbtraderumors or the like... where you provided tons of links to latest rumors and whisper talk about various players and teams - and then add some rotoworld-like commentary after each rumor.

 

[dbn]

Looking for replies, suggestions, etc...

NFLDraftGeeks@usa.com

Formatting on the Mock Draft and Top Prospects could use some improvement.

 

[BigSoxFan]

Quick answer... don't quit your day job.

Longer answer... what is it you are trying to do there? There is nothing really "to" the site. Mock drafts link just lists a bunch of players without any commentary. There isn't anything offered that can't be found in 1,000 other sites on web. If you really wanted to build a site around the draft, I would think you'd need to offer something akin to mlbtraderumors or the like... where you provided tons of links to latest rumors and whisper talk about various players and teams - and then add some rotoworld-like commentary after each rumor.

Yeah, I don't even waste time with mocks that don't provide commentary. That's a bare minimum.

 

[JoeSuit]

I think another key is that BB is secure enough (and doesn't care about fallout) to cut bait on a higher draft pick if it's obvious that the player isn't a fit. Other coaches/GMs can be hesitant to do so as it certainly makes the draft pick look like a bad one.

 

[tims4wins]

Pats receive 1 comp pick - 5th round, #185

 

[jsinger121]

Pats receive 1 comp pick - 5th round, #185. Thanks for nothing, Revis.

They get the Browns third rounder too at pick 103 in the Collins trade.

 

[tims4wins]

They get the Browns third rounder too at pick 103 in the Collins trade.

Good point

 

[jsinger121]

Good point

And they got the Revis comp pick last year pick 96 which was Vincent Valentine.

 

[tims4wins]

And they got the Revis comp pick last year pick 96 which was Vincent Valentine.

Yeah I realized that right after posting, I edited.

Who earned them the 185 pick?

 

[jsinger121]

Yeah I realized that right after posting, I edited.

Who earned them the 185 pick?

Akeem Hicks and Tavon Wilson

 

[tims4wins]

Akeem Hicks and Tavon Wilson

Right netted against McClellin

Phil PerryVerified account‏@PhilAPerry 54s54 seconds ago




Players taken into account for the NE comp pick equation? Losses of Akiem Hicks, Tavon Wilson weighed against acquisition of Shea McClellin.


Why doesn't Hogan factor in? Since RFA?

 

[jsinger121]

Right netted against McClellin

Phil PerryVerified account‏@PhilAPerry 54s54 seconds ago




Players taken into account for the NE comp pick equation? Losses of Akiem Hicks, Tavon Wilson weighed against acquisition of Shea McClellin.


Why doesn't Hogan factor in? Since RFA?

Yes. Unrestricted free agents only and not players cut from their old team like Chris Long.

 

[jsinger121]

 

[tims4wins]

Apparently the Rowe trade won't result in a pick until 2018 due to playing time

 

[pappymojo]

Patriots draft picks (currently)

1/32

2/64

3/96

3C/103 (Trade with CLE)

4/137 (Seattle 4th acquired in 2016 trade forfeited due to DFG penalties)

5/177

5C/185 (Compensation for losing Hicks to CHI)

7/252

 

[Saints Rest]

Can the Pats trade the Seattle 4th round pick so that the forfeited pick remains as the one at the very end of the 4th?

Seems like that would be a wise avenue to pursue so that the lost pick is the least valuable it could possibly be. Plus use the higher Seattle pick as trade bait (maybe a 2018 3rd?)

 

[Papelbon's Poutine]

It's a five slot difference. If they can get a future 3rd out of it sure. Otherwise, I don't see the difference of five slots in the fourth, short of someone specific dropping and I doubt they could make that move on draft day. Nor do I see the point in wasting the time or effort. You're literally talking the difference of a late seventh round pick. If they want to trade it out for future picks, the difference isn't causing a deal to fall through. Just trade their own.

 

[DJnVa]

Fournette apparently ran a 4.51 today, the fastest ever for a 240+ lb back.

McCaffery ran a 4.49, and Cook a 4.50

 

[E5 Yaz]

Adam Schefter‏Verified account @AdamSchefter 47m47 minutes ago
Eagles win coin toss and pick 14th in first round; Colts lose flip and pick 15th.

*

Banner: "Mid-Round Coin Toss Participant 2017"

 

[tims4wins]

Adam Schefter‏Verified account @AdamSchefter 15m15 minutes ago




Don't see many, if any, players doing something like this: Michigan's Jabril Peppers is working out with LBs on Sunday and DBs on Monday.

 

[tims4wins]

Kevin Duffy‏Verified account @KevinRDuffy 9m9 minutes ago




Clemson TE Jordan Leggett has a formal meeting with the entire Patriots coaching staff tonight.

 

[RedOctober3829]

Kevin Duffy‏Verified account @KevinRDuffy 9m9 minutes ago




Clemson TE Jordan Leggett has a formal meeting with the entire Patriots coaching staff tonight.

The 6'7" 277 lb TE that runs like a deer from Ashland is meeting with the Patriots tonight.

 

[E5 Yaz]

The 6'7" 277 lb TE that runs like a deer from Ashland is meeting with the Patriots tonight.

He is my official binky for this year's draft

 

[RedOctober3829]

Kevin Duffy‏Verified account @KevinRDuffy 1m1 minute ago
Miami TE David Njoku has not yet met with Patriots, but says he has a meeting scheduled with them tonight. Real athletic move TE.

 

[Curt S Loew]

The 6'7" 277 lb TE that runs like a deer from Ashland is meeting with the Patriots tonight.

And them Ashland deer are FAST!

 

[Cellar-Door]

So for combine stat surprises.
Nico Siragusa, he ran a pretty mediocre 5.35 40, but that was actually better than expected. In basically every other drill he's been one of the top performers:
28 reps on bench press (5th)
32 inch vertical (1st)
110 inch broad jump (5th)
4.56 20 yard shuttle (3rd)
Did finish 12th in the 3 cone (7.71)
Could be an interesting mid-round (3rd or 4th) pick. Needs coaching particularly in pass protection, but some impressive physical skills at 6'4", 319 lbs, 33.5" arms.

 

[Super Nomario]

Teams meet with something like 60 players at the Combine, so don't get too excited by who the Pats meet with.

 

[Mugsy's Jock]

And them Ashland deer are FAST!

"Is". "Them Ashland deer IS fast."

I'm super intrigued by Shaheen too which, given my recent performance in mwownow's draft prediction thread, indicates there's very little chance he will be picked by the Patriots.

Hey, I'm sure everybody checking out this thread already knows this, but just in case... the do it yourself Mock Draft game at Fanspeak.com has been upgraded again, now including 7-8 different big boards (now including one from ITP). It's an amazing time waster, that enables you to do your own 7-round mock draft in about 5 minutes.

 

[chief1]

"Is". "Them Ashland deer IS fast."

I'm super intrigued by Shaheen too which, given my recent performance in mwownow's draft prediction thread, indicates there's very little chance he will be picked by the Patriots.

Hey, I'm sure everybody checking out this thread already knows this, but just in case... the do it yourself Mock Draft game at Fanspeak.com has been upgraded again, now including 7-8 different big boards (now including one from ITP). It's an amazing time waster, that enables you to do your own 7-round mock draft in about 5 minutes.

I am addicted to it

 

[RedOctober3829]

A list of prospect meetings.

http://www.patspulpit.com/2017/2/19/14661772/nfl-draft-contact-tracker-which-prospects-have-the-patriots-met-with-in-2017

 

[Kliq]

Washington WR John Ross apparently broke Chris Johnson's 40 record of 4.24 by running a 4.22 today. Adidas promised anyone who broke it their own island if they did it in Adidas but Ross was wearing Nikes.

 

[BigSoxFan]

Washington WR John Ross apparently broke Chris Johnson's 40 record of 4.24 by running a 4.22 today. Adidas promised anyone who broke it their own island if they did it in Adidas but Ross was wearing Nikes.

Fortunately for Ross, he is about to own a different island...

 

[Kliq]

Fortunately for Ross, he is about to own a different island...

View attachment 14680

Well done sir.

 

[dbn]

Washington WR John Ross apparently broke Chris Johnson's 40 record of 4.24 by running a 4.22 today. Adidas promised anyone who broke it their own island if they did it in Adidas but Ross was wearing Nikes.

I like his response to Irvin asking him about not running in Adidas and missing out on the island. Seems like a nice kid.