2017 Dolphins: On the Right Track

Super Nomario

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That and the fact he's only had 2 winning seasons (College/Pro). Only one season with a rating over 90...and it's always somebody else's fault. There's always a dozen excuses for why he underachieved and his teams suck.
Then you add the Attitude and body language and that's why I find him annoying and overrated as someone watching him from the outside.
You can argue those metrics are basic and it's over-simplifying things, but they also are fact and it puts you in Cutler-apologist mode making excuses.
Are you talking about Jay Cutler here ... or Ryan Tannehill? Their career numbers are very similar in terms of quality - Cutler's career passer rating is 85.7, Tannehill's 86.5. Both are exactly three games under .500 for their careers (68-71 for Cutler, 37-40 for Tannehill). If you were excited about the season with Tannehill, I wouldn't be a lot more pessimistic with Cutler.
 

dwainw

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Are you talking about Jay Cutler here ... or Ryan Tannehill? Their career numbers are very similar in terms of quality - Cutler's career passer rating is 85.7, Tannehill's 86.5. Both are exactly three games under .500 for their careers (68-71 for Cutler, 37-40 for Tannehill). If you were excited about the season with Tannehill, I wouldn't be a lot more pessimistic with Cutler.
The optimism about Tanny is that the guy is still relatively early in his career, has shown steady, solid progress throughout--and is trending upward from the numbers you cite, by all accounts has shown significant tangible and intangible growth under a new coach and new system with which he is much more comfortable, and he goes into this season with his most balanced offense yet. Meanwhile, statistically Cutler is who he is, with a pissy attitude as an added bonus.

If we have to go with Cutler, so be it, but add me to the list of folks who will be a lot more pessimistic.
 

Super Nomario

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The optimism about Tanny is that the guy is still relatively early in his career, has shown steady, solid progress throughout--and is trending upward from the numbers you cite, by all accounts has shown significant tangible and intangible growth under a new coach and new system with which he is much more comfortable, and he goes into this season with his most balanced offense yet. Meanwhile, statistically Cutler is who he is, with a pissy attitude as an added bonus.

If we have to go with Cutler, so be it, but add me to the list of folks who will be a lot more pessimistic.
Tannehill's 29. I'm skeptical that he has much development left in him.

And Cutler, like Tannehill, also had his best (at least statistically, by passer rating and ANY/A) season under Gase, and that was in 2015, so we're not talking like 8 years ago or anything. In a lot of ways, Cutler's 2015 was very similar to Tannehill's 2016.
 

RedOctober3829

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Tannehill's 29. I'm skeptical that he has much development left in him.

And Cutler, like Tannehill, also had his best (at least statistically, by passer rating and ANY/A) season under Gase, and that was in 2015, so we're not talking like 8 years ago or anything. In a lot of ways, Cutler's 2015 was very similar to Tannehill's 2016.
The only reason why Tannehill could still develop is that he hasn't been a full time QB for that long.
 

sodenj5

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Cutler also is not exactly the model of durability, while that's basically Tannehill's hallmark up until this point. I don't know if I see Cutler holding up for 16 games behind this line.

Also, no one has any clue if he's in any type of football playing condition and is coming off a surgery to repair a torn labrum in his throwing shoulder. I would say those are not minor concerns.
 

InstaFace

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I'm not a Phins fan, but if I were, I'd rather have Kaepernick on a 1-year, $13M deal than a guy who already hung them up and probably wouldn't care about the job with the passion he'd need to. Kaepernick has upside, especially when he's coached by someone smart like Harbaugh. Cutler might not embarrass you in front of your fans, and has the advantages of being white and non-politically-active ( :eyeroll: ), but if you can't have Tannehill, CK at least gives you a shot at the playoffs if he busts his ass for the next 5 months.
 

soxfan121

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Cutler over Kaepernick is a very defensible football decision, given it is August and Cutler knows Gase's system. There a couple NFL franchises who should sign Kaepernick, especially as their backup (looking at you, Buffalo) but Miami made the better fitting choice for their team this year.

I would expect Cutler to be pretty good to actually good as long as Ajayi stays healthy. I don't know much about the depth MIA has at the RB position, but if I were Gase, I'd be looking to run more than I pass.And if the Dolphins can't run, they're gonna be very bad because Cutler is not good under pressure or as The Man.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Cutler over Kaepernick is a very defensible football decision, given it is August and Cutler knows Gase's system. There a couple NFL franchises who should sign Kaepernick, especially as their backup (looking at you, Buffalo) but Miami made the better fitting choice for their team this year.

I would expect Cutler to be pretty good to actually good as long as Ajayi stays healthy. I don't know much about the depth MIA has at the RB position, but if I were Gase, I'd be looking to run more than I pass.And if the Dolphins can't run, they're gonna be very bad because Cutler is not good under pressure or as The Man.
That's reasonable for 2017 only---the reason to sign Kaepernick is that you might get your future QB, too. Obviously, Dolphins may still feel Tannehill is that guy, but this year's injury really complicates that decision for them.
 

pdaj

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The shitty part of this will be the addition to the cap, which decreases the "roll over" money Miami had set up. Aside from that, under the circumstances, I think Miami got very lucky here.

Cutler, being diabetic, hasn't likely changed his eating habits too much -- but he'll have to get into shape quickly. Still, we're talking about a pocket QB -- these guys have it easy, comparatively.

I view this move as a huge potential season-saver.
 

sodenj5

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In terms of potential fits, I guess we couldn't ask for much more. Getting an experienced QB that already has a year under his belt with Gase is pretty much the best case scenario at this point in the season.

I still have concerns about his durability and his recovery from a major surgery to his throwing arm, however this is better than the Moore and Doughty Show. He'll have about a month to get on the same page as the receivers and get ready.

This likely spells the end of this year for Tannehill, which is really unfortunate. It's a shame the guy brings the team to the doorstep of the playoffs last year and will miss out on this season with what is likely the best team Miami has assembled in his tenure.
 

NortheasternPJ

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I'm not a Phins fan, but if I were, I'd rather have Kaepernick on a 1-year, $13M deal than a guy who already hung them up and probably wouldn't care about the job with the passion he'd need to. Kaepernick has upside, especially when he's coached by someone smart like Harbaugh. Cutler might not embarrass you in front of your fans, and has the advantages of being white and non-politically-active ( :eyeroll: ), but if you can't have Tannehill, CK at least gives you a shot at the playoffs if he busts his ass for the next 5 months.
I hate this pick up by the Dolphins from a Miami perspective. I don't think Matt Moore is that bad and as an organization I wouldn't want anything to do with Cutler normally, never mind after he gave it and went to the booth.
 

sodenj5

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I hate this pick up by the Dolphins from a Miami perspective. I don't think Matt Moore is that bad and as an organization I wouldn't want anything to do with Cutler normally, never mind after he gave it and went to the booth.
I am far, far, far from a Cutler supporter, however I think he said even in his retirement speech that he was basically being pushed into retirement by lack of opportunity as a starter rather than calling it quits.

It is what it is at this point. I can't make the arguement that Matt Moore is better than Jay Cutler, although I do feel that Moore has earned the opportunity to play.

Let's hope he's ready to go for Week 1.
 

Clears Cleaver

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Jay Cutler. The guy who knocked the Pats from their perch lol

Behind that line, cutler will get hurt. Then Kap to the rescue.
 

sodenj5

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I do have a ton of faith in Gase. I also trust that if Cutler looks like uninspired dog shit in his first few games, Gase won't hesitate to pull the plug and play Moore. Gase hand picked Cutler to salvage this season, and I think he can make it work.

The thing with Cutler is he already has a rap of having an IDGAF attitude. Not sure how him coming back to play one year as basically a mercenary is going to change that or his shitty attitude.

As mentioned above though, without Tannehill, Miami is a play away from having a third string QB from WKU as the starter.
 

Clears Cleaver

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I honestly can't say I've ever closely watched Cutler play. I've heard the bad body language stuff, the bad INTs. He's got a huge arm, right? What else do I need to know
 

sodenj5

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I honestly can't say I've ever closely watched Cutler play. I've heard the bad body language stuff, the bad INTs. He's got a huge arm, right? What else do I need to know
He's got a big arm but he's actually kind of shitty throwing the ball deep. He tends to throw the ball up for grabs too much and trusts his arm too much to fit it in tight windows. I am actually going to see if I can find 2015 tape of him when he was with Gase. I think that will be the most telling.
 

rymflaherty

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For those who didn't want Cutler: would you rather they pick up a bad, cheap #2 and be one snap away from your season being over or have Cutler/Moore?
No, I'd rather have Cutler/Moore.
I may not really like Cutler, but at least he's an NFL QB. I saw way too much football last year that included QB's you couldn't say that about, and it's UGLY...I do prefer Cutler over that. There is a chance you catch lightning in a bottle with him, and if he blows than he winds up being the fall guy. That's about as good a spot you can hope for as an organization in a situation like this.

For me the negativity stems from the injury itself and losing Tannehill, and I do think there was a more intriguing option available...being Kaepernick. With Kaep you get a guy who's an NFL QB, but you also have the potential upside pairing him with a great Offensive coach and the weapons in Miami...but that obviously wasn't to be...so I guess it's let's go Cutler!
 

Stitch01

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Don't hate it, and Cutler had always gotten a bit of a bad rap (never lived up to his Denver promise, but his '10-'12 Chicago peak has a few breaks the other way and he's thought of much differently) but man was he bad last year when he played. OL better play well.
 

mauf

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I'm not a Phins fan, but if I were, I'd rather have Kaepernick on a 1-year, $13M deal than a guy who already hung them up and probably wouldn't care about the job with the passion he'd need to. Kaepernick has upside, especially when he's coached by someone smart like Harbaugh. Cutler might not embarrass you in front of your fans, and has the advantages of being white and non-politically-active ( :eyeroll: ), but if you can't have Tannehill, CK at least gives you a shot at the playoffs if he busts his ass for the next 5 months.
Kaepernick's comments about Castro made him coming to Miami a non-starter.
 

rymflaherty

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^
Maybe you're right...but have you ever heard the main Kaep press conference where that came up? Selguero came off as a total asshole attacking Kaep with a clear agenda. I was actually shocked with how calm and measured Kaepernick remained.
Within context it seems like the type of thing that could be remedied with an apology and an admission that they weren't as informed as they should be about Castro, but he's willing to do that and work with that community too...etc. etc... (if he wanted the job and was willing to do that)

But obviously that's a moot point now.

*Edit - a day later I will admit Cutler does make sense if Gase loves Tannehill. If you 100% believe in Tannehill than much like my above post, Kaep's upside becomes a moot point, and the upside was why I was arguing for him over Cutler in the first place.
 
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dcmissle

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https://www.google.com/amp/amp.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/armando-salguero/article117033883.html

Yes, the writer has an agenda. Full disclosure -- my own views of Castro and Cuba may be closer to Kap's than Salguero's, for reasons that might warrant fuller explanation in V and N, but not here.

That said, if Castro was the break point with Kap in Miami, I support without reservation and with great enthusiasm the owner's right to make that decision.

The notion that these owners should be required to bear the freight of players exercising their constitutional rights is just nuts. That is where Sally Jenkins completely misses the boat. It's Kap's freedom of speech -- but also his responsibility.

He was a non-starter in Baltimore for fairly obvious reasons, and perhaps in Miami for other reasons. Kap is responsible for his choices.
 

rymflaherty

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Cian Fahey talking about film breakdown of Cutler on Dan Le Batard this morning...
Of note, in the 2015 season, regarded as Cutler's best...He played more like Alex Smith than the gunslinger he's perceived to be... throwing the lowest percentage of balls downfield and 30% of his passes were 2 yds or less.

*Edit - just saw the post above...that really sucks.
I swear every time you start to feel good about this team...
 

5dice

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https://www.google.com/amp/amp.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/armando-salguero/article117033883.html

Yes, the writer has an agenda. Full disclosure -- my own views of Castro and Cuba may be closer to Kap's than Salguero's, for reasons that might warrant fuller explanation in V and N, but not here.

That said, if Castro was the break point with Kap in Miami, I support without reservation and with great enthusiasm the owner's right to make that decision.

The notion that these owners should be required to bear the freight of players exercising their constitutional rights is just nuts. That is where Sally Jenkins completely misses the boat. It's Kap's freedom of speech -- but also his responsibility.

He was a non-starter in Baltimore for fairly obvious reasons, and perhaps in Miami for other reasons. Kap is responsible for his choices.
I'd be in total agreement with you if teams didn't routinely give second, third, and fourth chances to spousal (or SO) abusers and other violent a-holes. They're just as responsible for their choices as Kaep is for his. Ray Lewis never had to sweat getting re-signed post-white suit.
 

Super Nomario

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I just saw that Tannehill's contract has less than $5 MM in guaranteed money after 2017. Very tradeable / cuttable, if they like what Cutler gives them this year and want to bring him back.
 

sodenj5

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Other thoughts in his mind: possible battery, failed contract negotiations and trash talking the Patriots in one short offseason. Wow.
His girlfriend released a statement saying they had a verbal disagreement and he in no way shape or form harmed her physically. Team and NFL aware for months. There's video footage that's been reviewed. This is largely a non-story.

I just saw that Tannehill's contract has less than $5 MM in guaranteed money after 2017. Very tradeable / cuttable, if they like what Cutler gives them this year and want to bring him back.
His contract is basically a bunch of team options moving forward. Shrewd move by Tannenbaum actually. Protected the team from lack of development or catastrophic injury.

Nearly every beat writer this morning his said Cutler's arm looks every bit as strong as it ever has and the surgery looks like a complete non-issue, alleviating some of my concern. Tannehill and Moore have also been guiding him through the team's practice and coaching him up between reps and plays. Two class acts.
 

dwainw

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Nearly every beat writer this morning his said Cutler's arm looks every bit as strong as it ever has and the surgery looks like a complete non-issue, alleviating some of my concern. Tannehill and Moore have also been guiding him through the team's practice and coaching him up between reps and plays. Two class acts.
Moore's attitude and professionalism since he joined the team have been tremendous. We shouldn't forget what he did at the end of last season to secure a playoff spot--not to mention coming back into the game in Pittsburgh after that vicious hit. Part of me felt bad for him when the team immediately went to Cutler as its contingency rather than give him a more viable opportunity to earn the job. Right decision for the Dolphins--and Matt Moore more or less said as much--but man, you've got to feel for him. I think we're lucky to have him.

Anyway, I'm starting to come around a bit on Cutler, not that we have a choice. Previous teammates are refuting his reputation for surliness and saying all the right things about his character and football IQ, which is encouraging, and he appears to have some bullets left in the arm. Perhaps a Cutler/Moore combo can save the season after all.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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Do we know if his arm is prone to deterioration after the surgery, or is it the case that, if his arm looks good now, it should remain that way?
 

luckiestman

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Jason Gay's column on apathetic Cutler face might be the best thing he has written

https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/jay-cutler-the-delightful-indifferent-face-of-football-1502202567

Here is the start

Jay Cutler is the new quarterback for the Miami Dolphins. I don’t know if this is a great idea. Neither, it appears, does he.

I enjoy Jay Cutler. He may be merely above-average at playing quarterback, but over the course of his 11-year, now-revived NFL career, he became the Bart Starr of ambivalent body language. Even when things are going well for Cutler, he looks as if he’s watching socks tumble dry at the laundromat. He looks like someone asked him to pick up the neighbor’s garbage, which just blew all over his front lawn. He looks like he’s been told it will be another 45 minutes waiting at the dentist.
 

Clears Cleaver

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Raekwon out for the year. Fish are thin at two positions, LB and guard and lose two starters at those positions by the 5 min mark of the first preseason game. Oh, and the starting qb

6-10
 

sodenj5

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Raekwon out for the year. Fish are thin at two positions, LB and guard and lose two starters at those positions by the 5 min mark of the first preseason game. Oh, and the starting qb

6-10
Siiiiigh. God damn it. It's going to be really hard to maintain optimism this season if this trend continues.
 

Clears Cleaver

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Siiiiigh. God damn it. It's going to be really hard to maintain optimism this season if this trend continues.
Gase said he hadn't heard anything on raekwon. Reporter said he tore acl. We will find out today

Such a hard franchise to root for. Most talent they've had in years. Given schedule and injuries already...ugh

Cutler contract also means little left to spend to find a guard or another LB
 

rymflaherty

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The McMillan injury (assuming initial reports are correct) may not have the same impact that Tannehill's injury had, but it actually bums me out just as much, if not more
It really sucks to see a promising Rookie go down like that and know that we may never see him at full strength, that there may always be a "what could have been".
I wish him well on his recovery. And really, ACL surgeries have become common place and certainly are not as devastating as they once were, but still...If you lose even a fraction of a step in this league, that can mean all the difference, so it really sucks. Although, by all accounts, McMillan isn't a guy who is solely relying on athleticism and is a cerebral/instinctive player, so not sure of that helps or hurts when it comes to potentially losing a little something physically...

And I'm rambling again. I guess bad news makes me do that.
McMillan was one of the guys I was most excited to see play. It sounded like he was one of the guys that was bringing a bit of Swagger back to this team/defense...
Hopefully that still is the case, and we still see all that potential next year.
 

sodenj5

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Agreed. McMillan was carving out a role. Kiko or Timmons will likely play inside and they will make due, but it's a real shame. As mentioned above, we may never see McMillan at 100%. Hopefully he comes back as strong as ever, but definitely a major blow.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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Tough offseason for you fellas, but this is the life of an NFL team. The injury bug hits a team every 4-5 years. It's the Dolphins turn this year.

Good a time as any to convert to the red, white, and blue.
 

sodenj5

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Tough offseason for you fellas, but this is the life of an NFL team. The injury bug hits a team every 4-5 years. It's the Dolphins turn this year.

Good a time as any to convert to the red, white, and blue.
Last year they lost Reshad Jones, Mike Pouncey, Ryan Tannehill, Jelani Jenkins, Koa Misi, Byron Maxwell, and Xavien Howard for large chunks of the season.

This year already off to a rough start. Tannehill, Larsen, and McMillan all likely done for the year before the first preseason game is over.
 

dcmissle

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Some of us here remember 1989, when Andre Tippett, Ronnie Lippett, and Garin Veris were lost to season-ending injuries in the preseason finale. That's right -- the last preseason game. Season, over. Before they played a down that counted.

So everyone complains about the quality of football for the first couple weeks of the real season. It's understandable. Striking the right balance is hard.