He and Tedy could start a support group. Rick Moranis is to blame, I'm sure.Funny that as I was thinking the same thing; he looks like he's half the man he used to be.
He and Tedy could start a support group. Rick Moranis is to blame, I'm sure.Funny that as I was thinking the same thing; he looks like he's half the man he used to be.
Did you feel the same way about the Manning family enterprise, and specifically the old man getting in the sons' biz, PR-wise and otherwise?Gronk is also an adult and has an agent that he pays a lot of money to. Why does his family need to be involved in any statement he makes?
Curran's not one of the local assholes. But "the patriots are mulling their options" is reporting of the lowest hanging fruit. The Patriots are ALWAYS mulling ALL their options at every position. The decision to keep Brissett around when he was hurt and maybe activate him suggests the Patriots are "mulling their options" at QB in the future.Not sure it's a media conspiracy tho. It's pretty clear that Team Gronk has been very protective of their asset in the past w/r/t the team – perhaps overly so. Point being, I don't think guys like Curran are pulling things out of thin air when they say the Pats are mulling their options going forward.
An agent's job may be limited to negotiating contracts. And it may be better that way. Not everyone can be uber Agent/Lawyer/Spokesmodel Don Yee.Gronk is also an adult and has an agent that he pays a lot of money to. Why does his family need to be involved in any statement he makes?
I was thinking about posting on this, but now that you have I will chip in. Apparently Gonzalez was never a big "heavy lifting" guy but more in that Marinovich school of lean, highly flexible (but powerful) muscles. He also was an amazingly clean eater from all accounts. I have no doubt that he did some PEDs, but he was also focused on his physical health from his USC days on, according to all accounts.He's a yoga guy. He has taken incredible care of himself.
You know, I was about to say something about how Tight End is such a violent position and it's rare to have a lengthy career there, but then I thought back to the Hall of Fame (or "elite") guys at the position, and a number of them managed to have pretty long careers.I was thinking about posting on this, but now that you have I will chip in. Apparently Gonzalez was never a big "heavy lifting" guy but more in that Marinovich school of lean, highly flexible (but powerful) muscles. He also was an amazingly clean eater from all accounts. I have no doubt that he did some PEDs, but he was also focused on his physical health from his USC days on, according to all accounts.
Yeah, very much. There is surprising longevity at TE and the OL in general for a good chunk of the elite guys. I hope Gronkowski comes back to football, he is fun to watch play and he is fun to have in the league. But I also hope he doesn't have a life where he is taking painkillers every day. He deserves to have a fun life after football.You know, I was about to say something about how Tight End is such a violent position and it's rare to have a lengthy career there, but then I thought back to the Hall of Fame (or "elite") guys at the position, and a number of them managed to have pretty long careers.
Ditka played for 12 seasons, Ozzie Newsome and Russ Francis played for 13, Shannon Sharpe played for 14, Gates and Witten are at 14 and counting, Gonzalez played for 17 (!), etc.
Pretty remarkable. And while a few of these guys were more receivers than blocking tight ends, you certainly can't say that for all of them.
Edited to add Russ Francis because this is a Pats board!
He does. And he's had a LOT of injuries and surgeries. He's just injury prone, for whatever reason. And it probably isn't because he's always targeted because he is a humongous dude. Targeting Gronk is costly for the targert-er.Yeah, very much. There is surprising longevity at TE and the OL in general for a good chunk of the elite guys. I hope Gronkowski comes back to football, he is fun to watch play and he is fun to have in the league. But I also hope he doesn't have a life where he is taking painkillers every day. He deserves to have a fun life after football.
Most of his being injury prone has just been bad luck. It's always amazing to me how many people ignore the impact of luck on these things (not you, specifically; my comment is targeted mostly to lazy mediots). The broken arm was a fluke; the reinjury, where he landed just the wrong way, was an even bigger fluke. The ACL injury was on a hit that would likely cause similar injury to most other players. One could argue that his style of play leads to such injuries, and I will argue that Gronk has been asked to do more as TE than many of the players listed above.He does. And he's had a LOT of injuries and surgeries. He's just injury prone, for whatever reason. And it probably isn't because he's always targeted because he is a humongous dude. Targeting Gronk is costly for the targert-er.
This is a bit of a hard argument to make in context, no?Not sure it's a media conspiracy tho. It's pretty clear that Team Gronk has been very protective of their asset in the past w/r/t the team – perhaps overly so. Point being, I don't think guys like Curran are pulling things out of thin air when they say the Pats are mulling their options going forward.
How many "flukes" does it take for someone to wonder if he's just a guy who is injury prone? Eli Manning is a waif of a human and he's never missed a game. QB, of course, but it feels like Gronk is like Jimmy Graham, a truly incredible talent who is always dealing with injuries. And this isn't a knock on Gronk, just the reality. Some people get injured easier than others, it's a physiologically thing. For example, why did Tony Gonzalez never have a fluke injury?Most of his being injury prone has just been bad luck. It's always amazing to me how many people ignore the impact of luck on these things (not you, specifically; my comment is targeted mostly to lazy mediots). The broken arm was a fluke; the reinjury, where he landed just the wrong way, was an even bigger fluke. The ACL injury was on a hit that would likely cause similar injury to most other players. One could argue that his style of play leads to such injuries, and I will argue that Gronk has been asked to do more as TE than many of the players listed above.
The back problems, unfortunately, seem to be a recurring issue. That could be one of those things where his back is just not made to stand up to the repeated pounding that NFL players take. And Gronk is just not a guy that's going to sit back on a play to avoid injury.
This is spot on. He's prone to back injuries, the arm and knee issues were fluky. Unfortunately the back is probably going to get worse over time, not better.Most of his being injury prone has just been bad luck. It's always amazing to me how many people ignore the impact of luck on these things (not you, specifically; my comment is targeted mostly to lazy mediots). The broken arm was a fluke; the reinjury, where he landed just the wrong way, was an even bigger fluke. The ACL injury was on a hit that would likely cause similar injury to most other players. One could argue that his style of play leads to such injuries, and I will argue that Gronk has been asked to do more as TE than many of the players listed above.
The back problems, unfortunately, seem to be a recurring issue. That could be one of those things where his back is just not made to stand up to the repeated pounding that NFL players take. And Gronk is just not a guy that's going to sit back on a play to avoid injury.
If a player's non-health is related to something he could do about it, it could be a skill. (maybe the ubiquitous "taking care of your body.") Otherwise, this is just an empty platitude. Avoiding empty platitudes is also a skill.Staying healthy is a skill.
Cal.I was thinking about posting on this, but now that you have I will chip in. Apparently Gonzalez was never a big "heavy lifting" guy but more in that Marinovich school of lean, highly flexible (but powerful) muscles. He also was an amazingly clean eater from all accounts. I have no doubt that he did some PEDs, but he was also focused on his physical health from his USC days on, according to all accounts.
You are exactly right. My apologies. He was from LA, but went north.Cal.
Don't be glib, Matt.If a player's non-health is related to something he could do about it, it could be a skill. (maybe the ubiquitous "taking care of your body.") Otherwise, this is just an empty platitude. Avoiding empty platitudes is also a skill.
Gronkowski had a bad back coming out of college ("bad back" is pretty broad. whether its related to his current woes is just speculation). I would say that playing at a Hall of Fame level for several seasons despite that is what takes skill.
Neither had Tom Brady for longer than Eli's total career - and then he missed 15 in a row. It's luck, and the fact that Quarterback is the safest position on the field.How many "flukes" does it take for someone to wonder if he's just a guy who is injury prone? Eli Manning is a waif of a human and he's never missed a game.
FWIW, BB seems to view health as a skill. Here's his response to a question about Bennett a week ago: "he's shown good toughness. He's been a very dependable player for us in terms of being out there all the way through the spring, OTA's, training camp, regular season. It's one of those positions - offensive line, tight end, linebacker, running back - those guys get hit a lot. They are in a lot of contact plays. Part of those positions, I mean it's true of all positions, too. I'm not trying to single them out, but there's contact pretty much on every play for them. Part of those positions is durability."If a player's non-health is related to something he could do about it, it could be a skill. (maybe the ubiquitous "taking care of your body.") Otherwise, this is just an empty platitude. Avoiding empty platitudes is also a skill.
Using QB is a bad example because they can often control the amount of times they get hit. Brady and the Mannings get the ball out of their hands so I don't think it's much of a surprise that they don't get hurt often.Neither had Tom Brady for longer than Eli's total career - and then he missed 15 in a row. It's luck, and the fact that Quarterback is the safest position on the field.
I feel like some of Gronk's injuries are due to the 'shaq-effect'. He's so damn big and strong that nobody seems to want to call anything against defenders covering him - so he takes a lot more borderline hits than your average 'skill position player'.
The back stuff is definitely an issue, but the rest is fluke/etc.
FWIW, BB seems to view health as a skill. Here's his response to a question about Bennett a week ago: "he's shown good toughness. He's been a very dependable player for us in terms of being out there all the way through the spring, OTA's, training camp, regular season. It's one of those positions - offensive line, tight end, linebacker, running back - those guys get hit a lot. They are in a lot of contact plays. Part of those positions, I mean it's true of all positions, too. I'm not trying to single them out, but there's contact pretty much on every play for them. Part of those positions is durability."
Don't apologize! I saw Tony play at least one game at Cal. Maybe it was against USC. Sat near the SC band and they play their fight song with it's same 10 notes over and over. Drive you crazy. Tony caught a TD pass. Saw Tony play B-Ball too. Great athlete.You are exactly right. My apologies. He was from LA, but went north.
Welker was a freak, but Edelman's injury track record isn't any better than Gronk's. He's had at least three concussions, four or five foot injuries (including two significant ones), four or five hand / arm injuries, and variously been listed with back, thigh, and ankle injuries. He's been listed with a foot injury since Week 5 this year, though he hasn't missed a game.OTOH -- Guys like Edelman and Welker, as hard as they get/got hit, were dedicated toward not getting hit. Gronkowski has never played that way. "Avoiding some amount of crushing hits" could be a skill that Gronkowski needs to learn. But query whether he'd still be Gronkowski?
Gronk is very handsy with his man in coverage, Tony was much better at making quick cuts and seeking the seam in the coverage. I think that is one reason for the difference in the way they were/are played.Don't apologize! I saw Tony play at least one game at Cal. Maybe it was against USC. Sat near the SC band and they play their fight song with it's same 10 notes over and over. Drive you crazy. Tony caught a TD pass. Saw Tony play B-Ball too. Great athlete.
One difference between Gonzo and Gronk is that the latter seemed to get targeted with big hits a cheap shots more, while Tony was somehow below the radar.
Brady's Numbers With/Without Gronk...
SPLIT CMP ATT CMP% YDS Y/ATT TD INT RATING
With Gronk 2,044 3,116 65.6% 24,722 7.9 189 39 104.8
Without Gronk 412 714 57.7% 4,663 6.5 32 13 84.7
Hopefully if Bennett is healthy, that can help this drop-offBarnwell's piece on life without Gronk: http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/18186145/how-rob-gronkowski-injury-affects-patriots-nfl-playoff-picture-tight-end-future-2016-nfl
One thing that stands out is Brady's passing numbers without Gronk drop way off.
I think this is overblown. 10 of the games Gronk missed were in 2013, which was Brady's worst group of pass-catchers since 2006 (that was the year Amendola and Vereen got hurt Week 1 and Brady was throwing to Dobson, Kenbrell Thompkins, Brandon Bolden, and Hoomanawanui). Gronk missed six games in 2012 and the O was fine - that stretch which included the buttfumble game, a 4 TD / 0 INT domination of Houston, and the SF game where they were horrible in the first half and Brady lit up a really good 49ers team in the second half.Barnwell's piece on life without Gronk: http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/18186145/how-rob-gronkowski-injury-affects-patriots-nfl-playoff-picture-tight-end-future-2016-nfl
One thing that stands out is Brady's passing numbers without Gronk drop way off.
Good counter, hope you're right. The Redzone is where he'll feel it the most.I think this is overblown. 10 of the games Gronk missed were in 2013, which was Brady's worst group of pass-catchers since 2006 (that was the year Amendola and Vereen got hurt Week 1 and Brady was throwing to Dobson, Kenbrell Thompkins, Brandon Bolden, and Hoomanawanui). Gronk missed six games in 2012 and the O was fine - that stretch which included the buttfumble game, a 4 TD / 0 INT domination of Houston, and the SF game where they were horrible in the first half and Brady lit up a really good 49ers team in the second half.
his effect on Brady’s stats makes a strong case that the Patriots aren’t just using Gronkowski, they’re relying on him.
Not trying to be a dick here. I have no problem with "attribute."People who reflexively dismiss health as a skill or attribute -- the random walk crowd -- have closed minds.
Someone needs to forward this to Brady. Not only is he a system QB but he's also league average without Gronk. It's a faulty analysis because you need to see what everyone else does without their top option and many of those obviously aren't as good as Gronk.Barnwell's piece on life without Gronk: http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/18186145/how-rob-gronkowski-injury-affects-patriots-nfl-playoff-picture-tight-end-future-2016-nfl
One thing that stands out is Brady's passing numbers without Gronk drop way off.
Thanks for the information. Four on the forearm alone, wow. He's had more than his share to say the least.According to Mark Daniels of the Providence Journal this will be his ninth surgery in the past seven years. Four on forearm, three on back, one on ankle and one on knee.
i am create every practice squad guy on madden ps3 i actually made this guy he is more a WR very raw played at UAB i guess saban likes him i would had try to lure Owen Daniels myselfAnyone got any Kennard Backman takes?
No. Kind of heartbreaking actually. I know its probably like 5 minutes after surgery, but its hard not to see it as a 10 second flash forward 15 years when 42 year old Rob Gronkowski needs a walker and 70 year old me doesn't.This is not fun to watch.
The hospital gown, non-skid yellow socks and the walker, with a superstar tight end. Hard to fathom.