Don't look now, but OKC is now the #7 seed (#8 if you look at the loss column), and POR and DEN are both within spitting distance of the #3 seed.
2017-18 NBA Regular Season Game/Observation Thread
- Thread starter DeJesus Built My Hotrod
- Start date
Melo has really declined the last couple of years. He doesn’t defend (which he never really did, but he is worse now) and doesn’t rebound (which he used to do well) and basically shoots a crappy percentage and stops the ball on offense. He doesn’t get to the line, he doesn’t create for others, really for an all-offense player I don’t know what positives he really brings to OKC. Would they be better with Joe Ingles than with Melo?
George going 1-14 is pretty ugly. George is maybe the best two-way player in the NBA this season, but post-knee injury he doesn’t strike me as an alpha-dog anymore. He shoots from outside a lot more and gets to the line a lot less; he’s super talented but he turns out a lot of performances where you forget he was even on the court for a star player.
George going 1-14 is pretty ugly. George is maybe the best two-way player in the NBA this season, but post-knee injury he doesn’t strike me as an alpha-dog anymore. He shoots from outside a lot more and gets to the line a lot less; he’s super talented but he turns out a lot of performances where you forget he was even on the court for a star player.
Is Kevin Durant not in the league anymore? He has become a superb defender and can even play 5 if needed, and we all know about his offense.
I think George would be a really good Robin to LeBron’s Batman. The bad injury probably changed his trajectory a bit but he’s statistically a pretty similar player now than he was before the injury.
+ BKN: L8 (not tanking, but losing like champs nonetheless).
It's on for sure, though. Eight teams within two wins of the bottom seed.
I guess; I said maybe the best and Durant and Brow and (healthy) Kawhi are also in that conversation. George's advanced stats are slightly better than Durants.
Yeah; when he was battling peak LeBron to basically a draw in the playoffs he looked like he was going to be a top five player in the NBA for a while and the injury changed that. His numbers are basically the same; and I think he has made up for any lapses in athleticism by turning into a great outside shooter. However, for a guy of his talents I think he is kind of an underachiever. Isn't it weird that his stats are basically identical over the last two seasons, when he switched from being the first option on a team without a quality second (or even third) option, to being on a team with the reigning MVP and a aging, but still HOF scorer? He's a great second banana; but he isn't an alpha dog the way he was pre-injury, even if the stats don't exactly show it.
Kyrie already called him out for that play last night. Zaza is dirty as shit and that “fall” onto Westbrook’s legs was 100% intentional. There was no reason for him to lose his balance there.
Westbrook was totally out of control and made the "dirtiest" move on the play, hooking Nick Young's leg and pulling it into the back of Zaza's knee. Anyone naturally falls when they feel contact there, to avoid planting and potentially hurting the knee. Zaza fell pretty gently, too, given his general clumsiness. Not like he Gronk'd him.
More importantly, Russ was fine. He's basically a big drama queen who was salty about losing. He did the same last season when he pretended he was gonna kick Zaza's ass after he got caught on a pretty garden-variety Zaza screen.
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I mean, you’re absolutely nuts on this one but I respect your consistency.
Westbrook was totally out of control and made the "dirtiest" move on the play, hooking Nick Young's leg and pulling it into the back of Zaza's knee. Anyone naturally falls when they feel contact there, to avoid planting and potentially hurting the knee. Zaza fell pretty gently, too, given his general clumsiness. Not like he Gronk'd him.
More importantly, Russ was fine. He's basically a big drama queen who was salty about losing. He did the same last season when he pretended he was gonna kick Zaza's ass after he got caught on a pretty garden-variety Zaza screen.
I just looked the play up to watch and how can anyone defend this?
https://mobile.twitter.com/Kenny Ducey/status/967601285527736321
He's ended Leonard's career. Who's next?!
Just joking but imagine practicing with this guy.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Kenny Ducey/status/967601285527736321
He's ended Leonard's career. Who's next?!
Just joking but imagine practicing with this guy.
You mean that you don’t believe Westbrook, while falling to the ground, was able to purposely wrap his legs around Nick Young’s leg and then drag Nick Young’s leg around Zaza’s knee so that Pachulia would then fall?
Westbrook is a great athlete, but damn, I don’t know.
Lol. “Ended Kawhi’s career,” absurd as it is, is now a pretty standard line in the hoops blogosphere— never mind the fact that his quad tendinopathy had literally nothing to with the ankle injury.
Also: never mind the fact that Kawhi had a serious pre-existing ankle injury that had kept him out the previous game, that Popovich had recklessly rushed him back on, and that he had injured on his seated teammate David Lee’s foot minutes before the Zaza step-under.
And never mind the fact that the step-under was a move made famous by Popovich’s own Bruce Bowen, not once, but routinely throughout his career, often far more egregiously than the Zaza move. And that Bowen was consistently praised for his “toughness” by Popovich and everyone else. And that Pop clearly ordered a reluctant LaMarcus Aldridge to execute the same move on Durant afterwards.
Not that that prevented Pop (an otherwise awesome dude) from likening it in Zaza’s case to “manslaughter” — a piece of irresponsible rhetoric that riled crazed Spurs fans to the point where Zaza’s kids received death threats.
Anyway, the “ended Kawhi’s career” meme is a pretty good indication of how objective Warrior haters are on this current total non-issue.
Also: never mind the fact that Kawhi had a serious pre-existing ankle injury that had kept him out the previous game, that Popovich had recklessly rushed him back on, and that he had injured on his seated teammate David Lee’s foot minutes before the Zaza step-under.
And never mind the fact that the step-under was a move made famous by Popovich’s own Bruce Bowen, not once, but routinely throughout his career, often far more egregiously than the Zaza move. And that Bowen was consistently praised for his “toughness” by Popovich and everyone else. And that Pop clearly ordered a reluctant LaMarcus Aldridge to execute the same move on Durant afterwards.
Not that that prevented Pop (an otherwise awesome dude) from likening it in Zaza’s case to “manslaughter” — a piece of irresponsible rhetoric that riled crazed Spurs fans to the point where Zaza’s kids received death threats.
Anyway, the “ended Kawhi’s career” meme is a pretty good indication of how objective Warrior haters are on this current total non-issue.
He was out of control, trying to draw contact to get a whistle, and hooked Young’s legs to try to exaggerate the contact. Obviously he didn’t think it would result in Zaza falling on him, any more than Gortat planned to hurt Durant when he threw Zaza down and his giant melon nearly ended KD’s season around this time last year.
Zaza’s a big oaf, and if he was on the Celtics everyone here would leave at that (hello, Kelly Olynyk). I’m just glad this time no one was hurt.
Its laughable that people on Twitter who likely haven't played sports in years and almost certainly haven't played NBA basketball where the speed of every sequence is nothing like they have experienced in their lives are talking about how a 6'11" 270 pound guy who is less athletic than his peers can control his fall. We should be better than that here.
That said, there is no denying that part of Pachulia's game is being physical and that between that as well as his aforementioned relatively less athletic nature means he is going to get into these situations regularly. I am ok with people referring to him as dirty but I would like it if those doing so were consistent.
Is Steven Adams dirty? How about Marcus Smart? Or Patrick Beverley? How about Serge Ibaka or Kelly Oubre or Kelly Olynyk or the Morris twins? I would argue they are too as well as a bunch of other physical players in the league. I am not suggesting that people shouldn't root for these guys if they play for their favorite teams but the hue/cry should be consistent regardless of the laundry.
As a side note, many of the aggrieved fans who are upset over dirty players like Zaza would be mortified watching the NBA back in the 90s and years prior. A lot of what is now considered dirty was then considered hard nosed defense/basketball back then (see Bowen, Bruce as referenced by SRN above).
Edit: I want to be consistent myself as I often refer to Dwyane Wade, who is the one NBA player I cannot stand, as being dirty and he absolutely is. But Marcus Smart, whom I love, is considered dirty as well and I cannot deny it. I can see how other fans hate him or love Wade for precisely the reasons I feel strongly the other way about those two.
That said, there is no denying that part of Pachulia's game is being physical and that between that as well as his aforementioned relatively less athletic nature means he is going to get into these situations regularly. I am ok with people referring to him as dirty but I would like it if those doing so were consistent.
Is Steven Adams dirty? How about Marcus Smart? Or Patrick Beverley? How about Serge Ibaka or Kelly Oubre or Kelly Olynyk or the Morris twins? I would argue they are too as well as a bunch of other physical players in the league. I am not suggesting that people shouldn't root for these guys if they play for their favorite teams but the hue/cry should be consistent regardless of the laundry.
As a side note, many of the aggrieved fans who are upset over dirty players like Zaza would be mortified watching the NBA back in the 90s and years prior. A lot of what is now considered dirty was then considered hard nosed defense/basketball back then (see Bowen, Bruce as referenced by SRN above).
Edit: I want to be consistent myself as I often refer to Dwyane Wade, who is the one NBA player I cannot stand, as being dirty and he absolutely is. But Marcus Smart, whom I love, is considered dirty as well and I cannot deny it. I can see how other fans hate him or love Wade for precisely the reasons I feel strongly the other way about those two.
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This is basically the sports version of whataboutism. He could have braced his fall much more effectively than he did.
Uno said he was kidding. And are you saying that you are capable of objectively looking at anything relating to Westbrook? Because your posting history suggests otherwise.
This play won’t make any top 10 list of dirty plays but it looked avoidable to me and is yet another questionable play from a guy who has a long history of them.
Also wondering why NBA players who have actually competed against Zaza feel the same. Is Kyrie full of shit in your opinion?
Its laughable that people on the internet who almost certainly haven't played NBA basketball where the speed of every sequence is nothing like they have experienced in their lives are talking about how a 6'11" 270 pound professional NBA player can't control his fall. We should be better than that here.
Of course, if you really want to appeal to the "only people who play the game can comment" reasoning, you should probably acknowledge that Westbrook thought it was intentional, as did neutral-observer Kyrie. They might know a thing or two about game-speed realities.
I watched the video a couple of times after reading SamRayNot's post, and I can see where he's coming from- it looks like Young's leg was pushing Zaza towards Westbrook. I don't know that it should've been enough to make him fall, and even if it was, he should've been able avoid landing directly on Russ's legs, but OK, it's plausible. I don't buy his claim that Westbrook's "leg hook" was dirty though. The video shows that Young lifted his leg up into Russ as Russ is up in the air, in what kinda looks like a dirty attempt to basically slew-foot him, but it's all happening simultaneously with whatever Russ is doing with his legs, so I'm not reading too much intent into it.
And for the record, I'm not a Warriors hater at all, but their fans' constant paranoia that there's this army of haters out there who fail to see things with the objective clarity that they, rabid Warriors fans, do is pretty tired. Oh God wait... I'm a Pats fan. Cognitive dissonance, activate!
I don't deny that Russ or Kyrie thought it was dirty. Perhaps I was unclear - I cannot deny that Zaza is dirty nor will I bother trying to defend the play in question.
BSF accuses me of what aboutsim and that's fair too. However, without going back a few pages or even to the start of this thread, I suspect we have had very little conversation about all the other "dirty" plays that happen in the NBA every night because they don't happen to involve a marquee player or team. If people are going to get angry about this sort of play, they are either furious all the time, including at some of their own team's players, or are applying an inconsistent, hot-takey standard on a player/team everyone loves to hate. Shit like this happens in just about every NBA game every single night.
He braced it effectively enough to avoid a really hard landing, and no one ended up hurt. I don't think any of us can say he could have done it that much more effectively, especially since none of us are 6-11, 270 lbs.
I still think Russ was pretty clearly the "instigator," such as it was — Nick Young obviously doesn't care about offering any defensive resistance, and in his expression at the time of the contact you can see "WTF, man, you missed the shot, calm down and get your crazy legs off me." Russ pretty clearly knows he instigated the whole melee, and it's only when he gets up from the fall and realizes who it was that fell on him — same guy whose ass he vowed to kick last year for having the gall to set a screen on him — that he starts in on his aggrieved, drama-queen victim act. If it was Andre or DWest who had fallen on him in the same way with the same force, I strongly doubt the crocodile tears start falling, from him or the hoops blogosphere. He was fine.
As far as objectiveness and cognitive dissonance, yeah, I'm not objective, but as a big Pats fan I can say that my heart sank and I felt sick at the Gronk pile-drive, in a way I didn't remotely with this Zaza non-incident. I just didn't see any of Gronk's anger or pre-meditated intent in this case, let alone anywhere near the force. Maybe Zaza's just better at hiding his emotions?
As far as whether Kyrie is full of shit — I mean, I'm a Kyrie fan, and I think obviously he's a far more objective source in the matter than Westbrook (or me, lol). But (a) Kyrie's obviously gonna be predisposed to support a fellow member of NBA's inner sanctum over the large-headed goon from Georgia with the funny name; and (b) I'm pretty sure he hadn't seen the side angle where Young's foot is drilling into the back of Zaza's knee. From the baseline angle that everyone watched it looks a lot more egregious than I think it was.
See, now as a Pats fan, this is what I would've gone to from the start. It works because it's true, so fair point.
The pic was a response to BSF's claim that there was "no reason" for Zaza to lose his balance on the play. That you also see it as "one player tripping his own teammate" suggests there was in fact a reason.
Your picture doesn’t prove anything. I think he could have remained on his feet. You suggest otherwise. We just aren’t going to agree on this one, which is fine.
Don’t know where else to put this, but this quote on Ingraham telling Lebron to stfu is amazing. Pop is a national treasure. That he casually drops the “even a lowly reporter” line in there absolutely slays me. Pop for Prez.
https://t.co/OpzrmQfkYS
https://t.co/OpzrmQfkYS
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Now, Pop’s awesomeness is something we can all agree on! And he’s 100% right on this. LeBron has been in the public eye since, when, 2001? And what’s the worst thing we can criticize him for? An ill-conceived FA announcement? He’s been a great role model for millions of kids.
Loved the reporter line too.
Thank you for posting that. For the record, I have mostly rooted against James and his teams because he has been a thorn in the C's side for almost his entire career. However, anyone questioning his leadership should read this quote from one of the greatest professional sports coaches of all time. The fact that his career has played out without many missteps (The Decision aside, which did raise money for charity) in the age of social media just underscores how remarkable the man is even off the court.
Edit: Or what BSF said...
Yeah I thought about putting it in that thread but figured it would get more eyes here.
Here’s the video.
Emphasis mine.
This is backwards to me. If you truly believe that Zaza being dirty is the cause of these dangerous plays, then you shouldn’t have to worry about practicing against him. I doubt very much that he would intentionally try to injure his own teammates.
What you’d need to be afraid of is him just being a big clumsy oaf. In that case, everyone’s at risk.
Correcting the record on one thing: I misremembered the Zaza/Russ dust-up from last season as the result of a "Zaza screen" — forgot that it was actually Zaza who fought through a screen and ended up Westbrook's grill, whereupon he ripped the ball from him on a hard-but-clean foul, then stood over him after Westy fell to floor like he had been shot out of a cannon.
BBall Breakdown did a pretty fair and balanced (and highly entertaining) breakdown last season of the Kawhi step-under move, including that Westbrook play, dust-ups with DWest and KG, and Zaza's dirty reputation in general, relative to Bowen, Laimbeer, Garnett, CP3, Stockton, et al.
BBall Breakdown did a pretty fair and balanced (and highly entertaining) breakdown last season of the Kawhi step-under move, including that Westbrook play, dust-ups with DWest and KG, and Zaza's dirty reputation in general, relative to Bowen, Laimbeer, Garnett, CP3, Stockton, et al.
Great rant by Pop. Has a lot of the "Who is Karim Garcia" rant about it, too. Who are you, Laura Ingraham, to criticize Lebron, proven player in the league for 13 years? He has nothing to prove to her.
...besides, what goes around comes around.
...besides, what goes around comes around.
You're right. It was a spitballing dumb comment on a message board.
Anyways, you warriors fans get so damn emotional. Just be straight up. Dude is dirty. He knows it, the warriors know it, etc. Just accept it. Zaza is a goon. At one point in his career he was not but now he is. Live with it and your 11938363727 titles and stop whining like the world is out to get you.
Haha, pretty sure I'm the only one in here whining. As far as I know, I'm the only full-time Warriors stan here, at least among the regulars? DeJesus is a Celtics fan who happens to live in the Bay Area and appreciate the beautiful game. 
Meanwhile: nice to see Danny Green, Patty Mills and co. wrecking the LeBrons like it was 2014.
My brother knows someone in the Holt Corporation (re: Peter Holt). Word is Kawhi is healthy enough to play but is refusing. Apparently has low pain tolerance. This should be a much bigger story than it currently is.
I have heard chatter around this narrative as well.
I agree it should be a larger story too but, on the other hand, I always cringe when I hear people questioning the pain tolerance of others. It smacks of a time when players who "got their bell rung" were strongly encouraged to go right back in to a game, lest they be labeled as "soft". We now know better.
I also have a difficult time believing that a player as good and physical as Leonard won't play because of slight discomfort. The guy has been playing basketball for a long time - is it the case that he has never played through pain before either?
I doubt the Spurs are pushing Kawhi to play if he’s hurt; at least that’s how I read the term “refusing to play.”
That being said, Derrick Rose was probably healthy enough to play as well. These guys have a ton riding on their ability to remain healthy.
That being said, Derrick Rose was probably healthy enough to play as well. These guys have a ton riding on their ability to remain healthy.
It’s a strange case. He’s had the quad thing for a long time so not like it’s a new injury or anything. Just weird for him to lose an entire year because of it. Will be playing for a contract next year so perhaps he wants to be sure that he’s 100% healthy entering next season.
Don't know where to put this but longtime super agent Dan Fegan died in a car accident early this morning. He was 56.
29-year old unnamed female and his 5-year old son were airlifted from the crash. So freakin awful.
29-year old unnamed female and his 5-year old son were airlifted from the crash. So freakin awful.
So hard to know someone else's pain, I don't know how you'd conclude he has a low pain tolerance. I sure wouldn't guess that watching him play, seems like a pretty tough dude.
Growing up in Compton must bring back a ton of bad memories. Not gonna pretend to know what that is like. He's one of the fortunate ones.
SRN, Any chance Bob Myers and Kerr huddle and get in front of this and suspend (really rest) Zaza for a game?
One game without Zaza will have no effect on them winning in MSG tonight. Golden State would be smart to avoid payback/targetting of their 'fragile' stars. Maybe send a signal to the league that they don't encourage the mere appearance of dirty plays. It is not hard to envision Stephen Adams (and other bigs, ie Enes Kanter) to run through screens or set very hard/dirty picks on Klay/KD/Steph.
It is mildly interesting that neither Kerr nor any of his teammates has (to date) stepped up to his defense on his one, as they did after the Kawhi step-under. My sense is that it's because this one is such a total nothingburger, but who knows.
I'd say they could bench Zaza and start JaVale for a few games, but they're already doing that.
Russ is fine, so I'm hoping the hoops gods aren't too angry with us, but I'll eat a sacrificial chicken tonight and knock wood three times just in case.
Edit: turns out Jordan Bell is (finally!) back from injury tonight, so they probably could have deactivated Zaza punitively if so inclined, but it looks like they deactivated Looney instead.
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I completely agree with you that Russ is a drama queen, especially his pre/post game fashion statements down the catwalk.It is mildly interesting that neither Kerr nor any of his teammates has (to date) stepped up to his defense on his one, as they did after the Kawhi step-under. My sense is that it's because this one is such a total nothingburger, but who knows.
I'd say they could bench Zaza and start JaVale for a few games, but they're already doing that.
Russ is fine, so I'm hoping the hoops gods aren't too angry with us, but I'll eat a sacrificial chicken tonight and knock wood three times just in case.
Even if this is a "nothingburger", NBA talking heads and other players are grumbling a little louder about this incident and Zaza's previous transgressions. The rest of league is definitely jealous of the Warriors success and it may be open season for NBA thugs to start pulling Zaza style play on KD/Steph/Klay.
IMO Myers/Kerr should really want to nip this in the bud, they have the most to lose here. Suspend Zaza for a game, give his 1 game of salary to a charity and say the mere appearance of dirty play won't be tolerated.
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