2016 NFL Draft: Day 3, Rounds 4-7

ShaneTrot

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Nov 17, 2002
6,463
Overland Park, KS
ESPN literally skipped any mention of the Patriots 4th round selection and went right onto reporting on the next pick. The war continues.
Well ESPN sucks but the Pats don't go out of their way to work with any of their prime people. I don't think BB has spoken to a big time talking head at ESPN on TV in years. He used to be interviewed by Berman regulary before Spygate. He also seems to have stopped talking to Peter King as well. Am I right here?
 

E5 Yaz

polka king
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 25, 2002
90,718
Oregon
Well ESPN sucks but the Pats don't go out of their way to work with any of their prime people. I don't think BB has spoken to a big time talking head at ESPN on TV in years. He used to be interviewed by Berman regulary before Spygate. He also seems to have stopped talking to Peter King as well. Am I right here?
Well, heads don't get much bigger than King and Berman
 

snowmanny

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 8, 2005
15,789
Some year I am going to keep track of all the players who could have been first round draft picks if not for X, Y or Z reason or were graded first round talent by A, B or C. Add them to be the actual first round draft picks and there's got to be close to 100 guys every year.
 

RoDaddy

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jun 19, 2002
3,269
Albany area, NY
He was the fifth fastest WR at the combine.

Damn Death beat me to the punch!
Under "Weakness", nfl.com/draft says he doesn't have the speed to consistently threaten outside cornerbacks. We're splittting hairs here but my point is that why this guy sounds like he'll be a solid receiver and character, he's not the deep threat that the team for some reason has mostly steered away from during the Brady years
 

Deathofthebambino

Drive Carefully
SoSH Member
Apr 12, 2005
42,105
Yeah, they actually spent a good bit of time talking about Mitchell. Even went so far as to pass his book around to each of the guys on the panel. Thought they did a good job covering him. I'm pretty sure ESPN has their pre-selected stories on most of these guys, and some players get more attention than others, depending on the story. If someone else picked Mitchell, they would have spent the same time on him.
 

ElcaballitoMVP

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 19, 2008
3,955
Move 2 6s to get a 5th?
Looking at the trade chart, it's going to be tough. 196+204= 22 pts. Last tradeable pick in R5= 23.4

The last two R6 picks the Pats have are compensation picks, so they can't be traded. The R7 non-comp pick is worth 1 pt. Throw those 3 and maybe that gets you back into the end of R5.
 

RedOctober3829

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
55,545
deep inside Guido territory
Under "Weakness", nfl.com/draft says he doesn't have the speed to consistently threaten outside cornerbacks. We're splittting hairs here but my point is that why this guy sounds like he'll be a solid receiver and character, he's not the deep threat that the team for some reason has mostly steered away from during the Brady years
Mitchell reminds me of Brandon Lloyd. Fast, but beats players with technique and body control on his routes.
 

Deathofthebambino

Drive Carefully
SoSH Member
Apr 12, 2005
42,105
I think Mitchell's speed is fine, his route running is great, and if I'm not mistaken, he's a pretty strong kid too. The big question marks on him are durability (the ACL injury) and size. Like I said at the top, I just wish he was a couple inches taller, and about 15 pounds heavier to be a true outside threat. 6'0 just isn't that big when you're going against corners just as fast, and the same size, if not bigger. In college, you can get away with that, and one of his strengths (winning the contested ball), will be harder to do at that height in the NFL. We'll see, but I don't see how his ceiling isn't a #2 in the NFL.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
24,837

RedOctober3829

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
55,545
deep inside Guido territory
I think Mitchell's speed is fine, his route running is great, and if I'm not mistaken, he's a pretty strong kid too. The big question marks on him are durability (the ACL injury) and size. Like I said at the top, I just wish he was a couple inches taller, and about 15 pounds heavier to be a true outside threat. 6'0 just isn't that big when you're going against corners just as fast, and the same size, if not bigger. In college, you can get away with that, and one of his strengths (winning the contested ball), will be harder to do at that height in the NFL. We'll see, but I don't see how his ceiling isn't a #2 in the NFL.
Aren't the skills Mitchell possesses what the Patriots need, however? Gronk is pretty much their #1 WR. Edelman and Amendola work the middle of the field. They need someone who can make plays outside the numbers. That doesn't necessarily mean 9 routes. That means catching that tough out route or comeback route. Mitchell looks like he fits that profile. They need somebody that can fight for balls outside and I think Mitchell is about as good as you can hope for at this stage in the draft. You're not getting a 6'3" WR at this stage unless he's got big time deficiencies.
 

Super Nomario

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 5, 2000
14,024
Mansfield MA
13th in 3 cone for WRs. Considering where we are in the draft, that fits with the Pats typical profile.
It's interesting - they love 3 cone for some positions (like CB) but not necessarily for WR. Dobson's 3-cone was downright bad (11th percentile). 40 time seems like the key metric for mid-round WRs, almost all 4.5 guys or faster and many around 4.4.
 

j44thor

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
11,144
Billings seems like a steal for CIN. Will be interesting to see who the better pro is in 3-4 years between him and Valentine. Billings is a beast in the weight room and very productive tape. Valentine perhaps has the upside but a very low floor as well.
 

splendid splinter

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2001
1,079
Greenville, SC
It's interesting - they love 3 cone for some positions (like CB) but not necessarily for WR. Dobson's 3-cone was downright bad (11th percentile). 40 time seems like the key metric for mid-round WRs, almost all 4.5 guys or faster and many around 4.4.
Maybe they value it more in reactive positions because agility is more important when you don't know where you're going? Do they place an emphasis on the 3 cone for OL?
 

Deathofthebambino

Drive Carefully
SoSH Member
Apr 12, 2005
42,105
Aren't the skills Mitchell possesses what the Patriots need, however? Gronk is pretty much their #1 WR. Edelman and Amendola work the middle of the field. They need someone who can make plays outside the numbers. That doesn't necessarily mean 9 routes. That means catching that tough out route or comeback route. Mitchell looks like he fits that profile. They need somebody that can fight for balls outside and I think Mitchell is about as good as you can hope for at this stage in the draft. You're not getting a 6'3" WR at this stage unless he's got big time deficiencies.
I disagree to an extent. I don't think they need a guy running outs and comebacks. They don't need another WR running routes 10-12 yards off the LOS. They already have Edelman, Amendola, Gronk, etc. doing that. They need a guy who can stretch the field, and take a corner with them, and maybe a safety over the top, to open the underneath stuff up for the other guys. This is especially true with other teams seemingly trying to take the Denver approach of focusing on getting pressure and forcing the ball out fast. When you have your entire offense running routes 10 yards in length, the defense doesn't need to respect the back half of the field, and I think it's honestly their only hole on offense, and has been for a while.

That said, i do agree they aren't getting some stud this late in the game, and frankly, i'm not sure there was a guy in this draft that really fits the mold (my dream scenario was Michael Thomas from OSU fell to them in the 2nd, but that wasn't happening, and Doctson is the only other guy with true size and speed, but they weren't getting him). I'm fine with the Mitchell pick, just don't think he'll end up being the kind of player that makes a difference. Still would love to see them take a shot on Sharpe, because I think he has room to fill out the frame, and maybe even improve his speed.

If the German kid, Boehringer is truly running a 4.38-4.42, and he can learn the game. Man, at 6'4, he could end up being the steal of the back end of the draft for someone.
 

RedOctober3829

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
55,545
deep inside Guido territory
I disagree to an extent. I don't think they need a guy running outs and comebacks. They don't need another WR running routes 10-12 yards off the LOS. They already have Edelman, Amendola, Gronk, etc. doing that. They need a guy who can stretch the field, and take a corner with them, and maybe a safety over the top, to open the underneath stuff up for the other guys. This is especially true with other teams seemingly trying to take the Denver approach of focusing on getting pressure and forcing the ball out fast. When you have your entire offense running routes 10 yards in length, the defense doesn't need to respect the back half of the field, and I think it's honestly their only hole on offense, and has been for a while.

That said, i do agree they aren't getting some stud this late in the game, and frankly, i'm not sure there was a guy in this draft that really fits the mold (my dream scenario was Michael Thomas from OSU fell to them in the 2nd, but that wasn't happening, and Doctson is the only other guy with true size and speed, but they weren't getting him). I'm fine with the Mitchell pick, just don't think he'll end up being the kind of player that makes a difference. Still would love to see them take a shot on Sharpe, because I think he has room to fill out the frame, and maybe even improve his speed.

If the German kid, Boehringer is truly running a 4.38-4.42, and he can learn the game. Man, at 6'4, he could end up being the steal of the back end of the draft for someone.
The problem with the way Denver played the Patriots in the AFC title game is that there were too many routes in between the hash marks. You are right in that they need to stretch the field, but you are forgetting that it works two ways. They need to stretch the field horizontally too. Edelman, Hogan, and Amendola are best when working the short to intermediate middle and making plays after the catch. Gronkowski and Bennett can obviously be used all over but is most effective down the seam against an overmatched safety or LB. Mitchell has the speed to beat his man deep but also the route running ability to make other plays outside the hash and numbers. It's not just 10-12 yard routes either. You have the deep arrow, post corner, and back shoulder routes to the outside that make secondaries have to respect the outside thirds of the field. That opens up the seam for one of Gronk or Bennett to utilize and pulls a safety out of the box so guys like Edelman, Amendola, and Hogan have more room to work.

I'm not saying that Mitchell will do all of this, but his skill set projects as a player that with development could be that guy. I was hoping for Braxton Miller to be that guy, but unfortunately that isn't the case. It's clear to me that the Patriots like Mitchell's advanced route running and given that he met with WR coach Chad O'Shea in Foxboro and got his endorsement I am confident that his chances of fitting the system are better than others available.