2016 Miami Dolphins: Amazing Gase

Tony C

Moderator
Moderator
SoSH Member
Apr 13, 2000
13,727
Paul Kuharsky ESPN Staff Writer

How good was the Titans offensive line in Miami? According to game statisticians, Cameron Wake, Ndamukong Suh and Mario Williams combined for three tackles with no hits and no sacks. The Dolphins has one QB hit. One. That's impressive work.

I only saw bits of the game on the red zone, so not in a position to judge. But has to be possible it's not so much impressive as these guys just quit.
 

mcaqua

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 15, 2011
306
Gase said RT is QB for rest of season. Others reporting Tannenbaum could be fired or lose personnel decision making to Gase/Grier.

Defensive players calling out coaches. Suh wondering how can't set edge when he's doubled every play (calling out the DEs). Glorious meltdown.

1-15
Who is reporting Tannenbaum could potentially lose his job? Do you have a link or tweet?
 

Clears Cleaver

Lil' Bill
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2001
11,370
what players would u trade? I mean is there anyone you'd keep?
Jones - 1st or 2nd
Albert - 2nd/3d
Wake - 3rd/4th

Cut after season: Suh, Maxwell, Tannehill, JJames?,
 

DanoooME

above replacement level
SoSH Member
Mar 16, 2008
19,937
Henderson, NV
They aren't cutting Suh. $41.285 million in dead money if they do. That's almost a third of the cap. He's not getting cut until maybe 2019, more likely 2020. That deal is going to kill them.

Other dead money/cap savings on cuts:

Tannehill - $10.4 million/$9.9 million
Pouncey - $5 million/almost $4 million
Albert - $3.4 million/$7.2 million
Williams - $2 million/$8.5 million
Maxwell - $3 million/$5.5 million
Wake - $3 million/$4 million
 

Clears Cleaver

Lil' Bill
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2001
11,370
They aren't cutting Suh. $41.285 million in dead money if they do. That's almost a third of the cap. He's not getting cut until maybe 2019, more likely 2020. That deal is going to kill them.

Other dead money/cap savings on cuts:

Tannehill - $10.4 million/$9.9 million
Pouncey - $5 million/almost $4 million
Albert - $3.4 million/$7.2 million
Williams - $2 million/$8.5 million
Maxwell - $3 million/$5.5 million
Wake - $3 million/$4 million
Who is "Williams?"

Lol at Suh. He's a great player still but it's so absurd. The other guys? Buh-bye. Hopefully wake can go to playoff team and make an impact.

I think cutting Suh is viable if you just tank and do what Cleveland is doing.
 

sodenj5

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
6,623
CT
Despite Clears declaring trade/cut everyone, Miami does have some pieces of value, none of which I can see them trading. Wake is a maybe, but I can't see Tannenbaum trading him after handing him an extension this offseason.

Suh is unmovable. No one will take his contract and his cap hit is too big to cut. Guys like Pouncey, Landry, and Reshad Jones are probably Miami's top three most valuable players, and I can't see Miami blowing it up to that extent. Landry is still cheap, so I would say he's as untouchable as they have. Pouncey has a big extension, but is the only lineman that consistently plays well. I don't think anyone jumps at his contract/hip injury history either.

Jones might be an interesting piece because he's going to be due a big contract soon and he's playing at a very high level. I can't see Tannenbaum waving the white flag and blowing it up, if only to save his own ass. Trading Jones basically means he's fucked up to a massive degree and has to start over completely. Which very well might be the case, but I can't see him admitting that.

Miami is stuck with the roster that they have for at least another year or two. They're likely stuck with Tannehill until 2018 and this year's draft class is not a particularly strong class at QB. The defense needs a complete rebuild. They keep throwing draft pick after draft pick at the O-Line, and they STILL CANNOT BLOCK ANYONE. James has regressed to the point that he looks worse than he has at any point in his career thus far. Tunsil I have hope for, and might be Albert's replacement as soon as next year. The guards are a disaster.

Also a special go fuck yourself goes out to Kenny Stills on the last interception from Tannehill. Tannehill gets blasted for about the 1,000th time and delivers an underthrown ball and Stills has the audacity to duck and save himself instead of contest the ball and gives the safety a free shot to intercept the ball. That made me more angry than just about anything I saw yesterday.
 

jablo1312

New Member
Sep 20, 2005
985
Tannehil isn't a stud by any means but I don't think he's the main problem here at all. This team cannot block anyone. I know lots of teams say this, but this has to be the worst pass blocking group in the NFL. They got obliterated up front in protection yesterday, just like they did 10 days ago against Cincinnati. No QB in the league, outside of maybe Wilson, has a legitimate chance behind that line.

Cutting Suh is not only absurdly financially unfeasible (he'd have a dead cap number of $41 million next year if cut) but would be very shortsighted. He's a Hall of Fame caliber player who has not been the problem in Miami since he arrived. Place the blame for the defense around the replacement level linebackers, JV caliber secondary play, and Wake and Williams showing their age.
 

sodenj5

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
6,623
CT
Tannehil isn't a stud by any means but I don't think he's the main problem here at all. This team cannot block anyone. I know lots of teams say this, but this has to be the worst pass blocking group in the NFL. They got obliterated up front in protection yesterday, just like they did 10 days ago against Cincinnati. No QB in the league, outside of maybe Wilson, has a legitimate chance behind that line.

Cutting Suh is not only absurdly financially unfeasible (he'd have a dead cap number of $41 million next year if cut) but would be very shortsighted. He's a Hall of Fame caliber player who has not been the problem in Miami since he arrived. Place the blame for the defense around the replacement level linebackers, JV caliber secondary play, and Wake and Williams showing their age.
This is a pretty accurate statement. Tanneill is not the answer, but he's also not the problem. He doesn't have great pocket awareness, which exacerbates some of the protection issues, but I seriously saw way too many instances of either James or Turner letting a guy get a free run a Tannehill. When a guy comes in untouched, you're going to have a bad time. Playing behind a line missing your LT and LG is usually not great, especially when the two backups are bad. Also, the few times the protection actually held up, receivers weren't getting open. There were at least one or two coverage sacks yesterday.

I agree that Suh himself, in a vacuum, is not a problem. If you look at his play on the field, you cannot say he isn't playing hard or isn't competing or playing at a high level and drawing a double team on nearly every play. The problem is Suh's contract. When you're paying someone JJ Watt kind of money on defense, and they aren't changing the game on a weekly basis, then you have a problem. Miami's roster has too many holes at other positions to have a superstar DT. If they didn't have Suh, maybe they could afford a DB or two that can actually cover someone, or a LB or two that can actually tackle someone. They basically have Suh and Jones on defense playing well, and everyone else sucks at this point. Suh drawing double teams on nearly every play SHOULD make it easier for the LBs to tackle, SHOULD make it easier for the DEs to rush or set the edge, but when those players suck, all you have is Suh getting double teamed and everyone else sucking.
 

Clears Cleaver

Lil' Bill
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2001
11,370
Guys - you are missing the big picture. There are maybe 4-5 players on this roster that are actually good players signed to team friendly contracts that will still be useful when this team might be respectable again in 2018 or 2019. Who cares about the cap in 2017? Who cares about those 50+ players? turn as many of them into assets that might help you in 2018 and beyond.

And Tannehill sucks. He just does. Hey, its third down...pressure Tannehill and he is the WORST QB statistically in the league. Its been 5 years now. He is never going to be good enough to lead a team deep into the playoffs. Why f around? Why act like he is anything worth investing in, Bye. why do u care about the cap next year? or even in 2018? Draft a bunch of QBs until you find one that works.

Suh is still good player, yes. But he won't be in 2019 most likely. Why act like you are trying the rest of the year and next year? Actually have a plan. I'd much rather be a BROWNS fan than a Dolphins fan right now and they are the worst organization in the sport the last 10 years+++

Stills is a joke, nice use of a second round pick. Rinse. Lather. Repeat. Trade him.

you need 53 good players, not five. Blow it up and be ready to compete in 2019 when Brady and Belichick might be done
 

sodenj5

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
6,623
CT
Miami has blown it up already. Several times. They brought in Parcells and he worked his magic for one year and the team made the playoffs. Then Pennington's arm fell off, they drafted Henne and Pat White and botched nearly every draft since then, and here we are.

Why would this reset be any different? Why would blowing the team up now lead to success when it hasn't in about 15 years or so. Accruing draft picks is one thing. Making them count is entirely different. I mean, even the Patriots don't nail the draft all the time. It's a crapshoot and Miami hasn't nailed a draft in a very long time.

Say they trade Jones for a third rounder and Wake for a 5th rounder. Do you have any kind of confidence that they draft someone that can replace either of those two guys with a 3rd or 5th rounder pick? Let's get crazy and say they get a first rounder for Jones. Someone is desperate for a safety and has to win this year. I still don't think Miami doesn't screw that up. I mean just look at the sheer number of draft picks they've used on O lineman the last few years. Pouncey, James, Tunsil are first rounders. Turner and Thomas are third rounders. Jamil Douglas was a third rounder last year and he isn't even on the active roster! Yet they still can't pick up a simple stunt. They can't pick up a blitz. Tannehill is still getting crushed.
 

Clears Cleaver

Lil' Bill
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2001
11,370
follow Cian Fahey on twitter. he breaks down a ton of the Dolphins' plays from the game yesterday. HE defends Tannehill basically because the o-line is so bad its incredible. and watching james and bushrod....wow. Also kills MAxwell and the d-line for basically not even trying
 

sodenj5

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
6,623
CT
follow Cian Fahey on twitter. he breaks down a ton of the Dolphins' plays from the game yesterday. HE defends Tannehill basically because the o-line is so bad its incredible. and watching james and bushrod....wow. Also kills MAxwell and the d-line for basically not even trying
Gase doing his presser now, says basically the same thing. Said the Dolphins had 19 dropback passes and he was hit or sacked on 9 of them.

Cian shared a number of straight 4 man rushes where Turner or James flat out gets smoked and the Titans have 7 back in coverage. What is Tannehill supposed to do? Dude hits his drop and someone is running free at him and everyone is blanketed.

Per Rotoworld, Tunsil "jacked his ankle up" per Gase slipping in the shower. DolphsTown!

http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/nfl/344422/laremy-tunsil-injured-ankle-falling-in-shower?ls=roto:NFL:topheadlines
The Tunsil thing is pretty comical, reminiscent of his intro presser where he had an allergic reaction to shellfish and they had to cancel. Apparently TE Dion Sims was going to be the emergency third tackle, but Anthony Steen said he could play.
 

rymflaherty

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 27, 2010
3,420
Norfolk
Miami has blown it up already. Several times.
They really haven't though.
The last time it was blown up was with Parcells nearly a decade ago.
Every time a change has been made in between, someone who's been a significant part of the problem has retained their position as a decision maker, and in some cases have gotten better job titles.

It wasn't blown up when Philbin was there, because Ireland was still the GM. It wasn't blown up when Ireland left, because you needed to find a GM that accepted Philbin and would inherit his vision. It wasn't blown up this past off-season with the coach and GM changes because Tannenbaum and Grier were promoted who have been part of the mess...

It's infuriating.
There's no reason to expect anything other than someone getting thrown under the bus allowing the other cockroaches to stick around and watch the scenario repeat itself.
 

soxfan121

JAG
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
23,043
I would not be surprised if the Dolphins end up looking much better in late November and December. It can take time to learn and implement new offensive and defensive systems.

Of course, winning 3 or 4 of their final 6 would definitely screw up their draft position.

But I have a hard time imagining they are going to fire Gase during or after this season, no matter how bad it goes. Nor do I think they are likely to "blow it up." At a certain point, constant turnover becomes counter-productive. Gase needs time. IF they suck this bad next October, maybe he is in trouble, and maybe they think about blowing it up.
 

sodenj5

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
6,623
CT
I would not be surprised if the Dolphins end up looking much better in late November and December. It can take time to learn and implement new offensive and defensive systems.

Of course, winning 3 or 4 of their final 6 would definitely screw up their draft position.

But I have a hard time imagining they are going to fire Gase during or after this season, no matter how bad it goes. Nor do I think they are likely to "blow it up." At a certain point, constant turnover becomes counter-productive. Gase needs time. IF they suck this bad next October, maybe he is in trouble, and maybe they think about blowing it up.
This team employed Joe Philbin for 3.25 seasons. If they fire Gase after one, I'll light myself on fire and jump off a bridge. Or just stop caring about the team. Whichever is easier.
 

mcaqua

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 15, 2011
306
I like it. Philbin would've run Thomas out there every Sunday through December for no reason. The alternatives can't be much worse - Steen was unheralded and turned into a nice find. Let's hope for more of the same.
 

sodenj5

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
6,623
CT
Thomas has been an unmitigated disaster in every respect since he's been on the team.

Turner I feel a little bit mixed on because I think he can be a good run blocking guard, but his pass protection skills are awful. He also got Tannehill murdered a few times on Sunday and looked like crap at LG when Tunsil slid over to play LT for Albert.

Jamil Douglas, RIP. A wasted 4th round pick from last year.

James should be nervous. His first round status is about the only reason he's still on the team at this point.
 

Shelterdog

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Feb 19, 2002
15,375
New York City
I like it. Philbin would've run Thomas out there every Sunday through December for no reason. The alternatives can't be much worse - Steen was unheralded and turned into a nice find. Let's hope for more of the same.
You really shouldn't. Keeping those guys into their third and fourth year and then cutting them both midseason is a stinging indictment of the team; either the team screwed up in assessing how much they could improve or the team knew they sucked and kept them for a while anyway because they're highish picks and admitting a mistake would make the organization look bad.
 

mcaqua

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 15, 2011
306
You really shouldn't. Keeping those guys into their third and fourth year and then cutting them both midseason is a stinging indictment of the team; either the team screwed up in assessing how much they could improve or the team knew they sucked and kept them for a while anyway because they're highish picks and admitting a mistake would make the organization look bad.
And this matters to me as a fan in a clearly lost season how exactly? Turner, Thomas and Douglas were all awful performers in 2015 - and no action on behalf of the team got us more of the same this season. I'll gladly take this approach moving forward. Hell, the best thing that could possibly happen for this organization is for Tannebaum/FO to be exposed as clueless.

Well that - and the chance that, you know, they might actually improve by bringing in street FA/PS-types.
 

Shelterdog

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Feb 19, 2002
15,375
New York City
And this matters to me as a fan in a clearly lost season how exactly? .
Even if the team is bad presumably you care about whether the team is being run competently or not. Tanny's a proven idiot but now you have to wonder if you have a problem with Gase or the ownership because ditching these guys at this point after you've stuck with them for years just screams panic/pr move done to save somebody's job rather than to actually get better.

The chances that street FA/PS types will help them improve is pretty low. Good teams build their offensive lines over the course of years--developing communications and chemistry is key to that position grouping--and it's not like the street FA and PS types are particularly likely to be any good.
 

mcaqua

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 15, 2011
306
Even if the team is bad presumably you care about whether the team is being run competently or not. Tanny's a proven idiot but now you have to wonder if you have a problem with Gase or the ownership because ditching these guys at this point after you've stuck with them for years just screams panic/pr move done to save somebody's job rather than to actually get better.

The chances that street FA/PS types will help them improve is pretty low. Good teams build their offensive lines over the course of years--developing communications and chemistry is key to that position grouping--and it's not like the street FA and PS types are particularly likely to be any good.
I don't know - the bolded doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense to me. Gase isn't worried about his job five games into his first season, nor should he be. We already know the organization has a FO and ownership (at least on the football side) problem. If anything, this feels a whole lot more like Gase exercising his power over the 53 - resulting in a series of moves which just so happen to look awful for the personnel guys in the FO, and not any sort of Gase PR move to salvage public perception of him or his staff.
 
Last edited:

pdaj

Fantasy Maven
SoSH Member
Dec 15, 2002
3,385
From Springfield to Providence
Steelers trap game
Yup; this one had some classic "trap game" qualities.

- Road team coming off win, trending, being marked "SB contender".
- Home team coming off loss, desperate, getting marked as one of worst teams in the league.
- Favored team has a gigantic, marquee game the following week (Patriots).
- Underdog team adds several key players back for game.

The positives for Miami:

- It took until Week 6, but Miami finally featured their starting O-line: Albert, Tunsil, Pouncey, Bush', James.
- Likely a result of the above, the Fins were able to run the ball, easily putting together their most balanced offensive effort all season.
- No sacks given up, either.
- Ajayi put forth over 200 yards rushing. I don't think he's special, but he runs hard and decisively. If the OL can make holes, Ajayi can be Gase's Langford from '15.
- Welcome back, Arian Foster! He didn't get a lot of playing time, but he made a few key plays in the passing game and avoided an injury setback. I think he can be impactful going forward with about 10-15 touches per game, mostly on 3rd down.
- The effort/intensity was there from both sides following several surprise cuts after last week's loss (Turner, Thomas). Gase seemingly hasn't lost the locker room.
- Byron Maxwell showed up today, holding Antonio Brown to 4 catches, 39 yards. He got some scheme help throughout, but he excelled on many plays in 1:1 man coverage.
- Dion Sims, Marq' Gray, and Dom' Jones all saw time today at TE. All 3 can run block. Coincidence? I like Gase' offense a lot more with the hand-in-the-dirt type of TE.
- Nice effort from the secondary and co. today. In addition to Max's play, Lippett seems to be making strides, Reshad continues to be a beast, and the LB coverage looked much improved. The pass rush certainly didn't hurt, either.

The negatives:

- Injuries. Sims (concussed), Lippett (hamstring), Jones (shoulder). Hopefully all 3 are available next week, but Sims missed over a month last year with a concussion.
- Silly penalties. At least 1 cost Miami a TD, while another extended a Steeler drive following a sack on 3rd down.
- Offense continues to give points away. See above (penalties), in addition to another blocked FG.

Going forward:

Miami faces a hot Buffalo team at home next week. They have a QB who can scramble (tough match-up), a running back that excels on the outside edge and in the passing game (a tough match-up), and their defense is a unit that gets pressure on the QB and causes turn-overs (a tough match-up).

However, if the Fins can somehow manage a win, they'll be headed into the BYE 3-4, hopefully healthy, and possibly adding Culliver to the secondary vs. the Jets -- another home game. That'd at least make things a little more interesting.
 

dwainw

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
2,405
Minneapolis, MN
Very nice call, pdaj. And yeah, if they can somehow manage to beat Buffalo next week and take care of the Jets after the bye......the possibilities!

I kid, I kid. For real, I have such mixed feelings about this game, as I'm sure most of us do. It's so hard to root against the team you love, and always exciting to see them play well, but as plenty of folks have alluded to, under the current regime this team will likely only ever tread water--at best. An overhaul is necessary and inevitable, but what are the current players supposed to do? This team continues to languish in perpetual football purgatory with no end in sight, and it sucks. Anyway, at the risk of pissing on the parade, the reality of their situation takes a lot of luster out of a really nice win.
 

pdaj

Fantasy Maven
SoSH Member
Dec 15, 2002
3,385
From Springfield to Providence
One thing that I think gets lost by us Miami fans is how young this roster is right now. Consider the following:

RB: Williams (24), Ajayi (23), Drake (22)
WR: Stills (24), Landry (23) Parker (23), Grant (23), Caroo (22)
TE: Sims (25)
OL: James (24), Tunsil (22)
DL: Phillips (24), Fede (24)
LB: Butler (27), Alonso (26), Hull (25), Jenkins (24), Hewitt (23)
S/CB: Thomas (26), Aikens (25), Lucas (23), Lippett (24), Howard (23), McCain (23)

Even several key veterans are on the right side of 30, including Tannehill (28), Reshad (28), Pouncey (27), and Isa (27).

Outside the DL, this roster is insanely youthful. I think the rebuild started this year, when the FO chose to bring in several vets on very short contracts.

I think it's very possible Misi, Williams, Cameron, Albert aren't back next year. In fact, Cameron's a UFA next year, so we know he's not coming back. If that's the case, and the others are cut, that's over 36 million of space cleared up, with 7.7 in dead money.

Hard to properly evaluate Gase and VJ until they bring in more of "their" players.

The other obvious key decision will be Tannehill. He's set to make over 20 mil next year; but the Dolphins have the option of opting out.
 

sodenj5

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
6,623
CT
The unicorn games are real. As noted earlier, games where Albert-James-Pouncey start and finish the game, Miami's stats are noticeably different. 0 sacks. 200 plus rushing yards. Miami is now 7-1 in unicorn games.

Besides the running game making an appearance, the defense stunned me. I thought for sure Pittsburgh was going to light Miami up. Bell and Brown both looked like huge mismatches on paper. Huge credit to the defense for playing their asses off.

Shout out to Lawrence Timmons for barfing in the end zone after Miami scored.
 

rymflaherty

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 27, 2010
3,420
Norfolk
I'm done trying to analyze and make sense of this league.
As I mentioned in this weeks game thread, I think I can count on my fingers the number of teams/players that are consistent.

There may only be one absolute truth in this league. We overcomplicate things but it's really a simple game...
You're best chance at winning is by keeping your QB comfortable while making the opposing QB as uncomfortable as possible.
 

sodenj5

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
6,623
CT
Byron Maxwell had PFF's highest grade of the game. We're truly in bizarro world now.

I don't know what to make of this team anymore. Is this the team that hung with NE and Seattle and upset Pittsburgh, or is this the team that shit their pants against the Titans?

I would also like to point out that while Miami played well above anyone's expectations, they also left at least 10 points out on the field with a blocked FG, a missed FG, and Parker dropping a TD that hit him in the hands. Not to mention the TD that was reversed due to an illegal formation penalty and they ended up settling for a FG. Sims couldn't bring in a bullet from Tannehill on third down on that drive. So maybe as many as 14 points. That could have easily cost them this game.

Big game against the Bills this week.
 
Last edited:

mcaqua

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 15, 2011
306
Tannehill should've had 3 TDs yesterday, as you mentioned. Terrible execution by the skill position players in the red zone. My patience is wearing thin with DeVante Parker. He's been miserable this season.

Add place kicker to the list of positions that needs upgrading - I've got no faith in Andrew Franks. Even in a meaningless spot, there's no confidence he's going to convert.
 

Shelterdog

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Feb 19, 2002
15,375
New York City
Byron Maxwell had PFF's highest grade of the game. We're truly in bizarro world now.

I don't know what to make of this team anymore. Is this the team that hung with NE and Seattle and upset Pittsburgh, or is this the team that shit their pants against the Titans?
You act like it's an either or proposition; there's nothing unusual about a shitty team hanging in there in some early season games (particularly when the NE loss you're touting was against NE QB Jacoby Brisappallo).