Is Leon Powe Dead? Options

[Ed Hillel]

Someone help me out here. Powe was averaging a little over 20 minutes/game the first 10 games of the playoffs and now he has played 10 minutes over the last 3 games, including not at all tonight. Instead, PJ Brown and Glen Davis (two men who have played behind him for months) are taking all of his minutes. Those are two players who are, objectively, not as good as Leon Powe. I'm not even convinced Perkins is better than Powe. He has to be injured, right? If not, then what the heck is going on? Did Powe freak Doc's wife?

[Bosoxx]

Doc banishment to the pine. He sucked it pretty bad the other night, but not nearly as bad as Big Baby tonight. I bet we see a bit more of him in sunday's romp in the gahden.

[Rocco Graziosa]

Its real simple.....Powe and Davis have been played off each other all season long. One two week stretch Powe gets the minutes, then right when Powe slows down Rivers tells Powe "your dogging it, and I'm gonna give Davis your minutes.....you best be ready when I call back on you in two weeks..if not your done in this league" Then he does the reverse with Davis. Its been brilliant, and it looks like its worked again in this posteason.

[moondog80]

Its real simple.....Powe and Davis have been played off each other all season long. One two week stretch Powe gets the minutes, then right when Powe slows down Rivers tells Powe "your dogging it, and I'm gonna give Davis your minutes.....you best be ready when I call back on you in two weeks..if not your done in this league" Then he does the reverse with Davis. Its been brilliant, and it looks like its worked again in this posteason.

Didn't work tonight. Davis killed them tonight. Foul machine, stupid 3-second violation...and an offenseive rebound is useless if just put it back up with three guys on you. Powe should have plaved in the second half.

[Mystic Merlin]

Didn't work tonight. Davis killed them tonight. Foul machine, stupid 3-second violation...and an offenseive rebound is useless if just put it back up with three guys on you. Powe should have plaved in the second half.

The big elephant in the room, of course, is the fact he was fucking hacked every time on the block. You can't expect offense down low if the refs swallow their whistles on one end the court and cannot take a fucking breath without blowing them on the other end.

What do you expect?

[bball831]

Baby's line looks a lot worse tonight because he never got a call to go for him. He was mauled all night long when he had the ball in the paint. I have no problem with him playing tonight, he should gone to the line 3 or 4 times instead he got zero trips.

Edit - What Merlin said.



This post has been edited by bball831: May 16 2008, 10:28 PM

[amarshal2]

Two times isn't enough. Baby was absolutely mugged tonight and got no calls.

[moondog80]

The big elephant in the room, of course, is the fact he was fucking hacked every time on the block. You can't expect offense down low if the refs swallow their whistles on one end the court and cannot take a fucking breath without blowing them on the other end.

What do you expect?

I was pissed at the refs a lot tonight, but I don't recall being too upset (at the refs anyway) either of the time he got stuffed in the 2nd quarter. And regardless of the result, he was in heavy traffic both times, they were bad decisions even if the went in.

This post has been edited by moondog80: May 16 2008, 10:31 PM

[Ed Hillel]

Baby's line looks a lot worse tonight because he never got a call to go for him. He was mauled all night long when he had the ball in the paint. I have no problem with him playing tonight, he should gone to the line 3 or 4 times instead he got zero trips.

Edit - What Merlin said.

I can at least see an argument for Davis verses Powe, although I'd still pick Powe in a heartbeat. But PJ Brown? He's old, slow, a poor defender at this age, can't jump, and he can't drive to the hoop. The only thing he can do is hit a wide open shot from the elbow. How does he bring more to the table than Leon Powe?

This post has been edited by Ed Hillel: May 16 2008, 10:33 PM

[bball831]

I can at least see an argument for Davis verses Powe, although I'd still pick Powe in a heartbeat. But PJ Brown? He's old, slow, a poor defender at this age, can't jump, and he can't drive to the hoop. The only thing he can do is hit a wide open shot from the elbow. How does he bring more to the table than Leon Powe?

But he's taller than Leon which enables him (try) to guard Z. Powe has tried guard Z and he can't, he's just too short. Leon hasn't shown much at all in this series. Would Powe make a difference? Maybe, but I can see the reason for the other two.

[Harry Hooper]

Someone help me out here. Powe was averaging a little over 20 minutes/game the first 10 games of the playoffs and now he has played 10 minutes over the last 3 games, including not at all tonight. Instead, PJ Brown and Glen Davis (two men who have played behind him for months) are taking all of his minutes. Those are two players who are, objectively, not as good as Leon Powe. I'm not even convinced Perkins is better than Powe. He has to be injured, right? If not, then what the heck is going on? Did Powe freak Doc's wife?

I believe it was Donny Marshall on the radio today who related that the C's braintrust doesn't think Powe isn't playing team defense as well as the others, hence his reduced minutes.

[Ed Hillel]

But he's taller than Leon which enables him (try) to guard Z. Powe has tried guard Z and he can't, he's just too short. Leon hasn't shown much at all in this series. Would Powe make a difference? Maybe, but I can see the reason for the other two.

That's the thing against Cleveland, though. None of their 3 big-men are particularly good scorers in the paint. Wallace can't score, Varejao doesn't score much either, and Z is primarily an outside shooter. James is getting contained by outside pressure, so I don't think a smaller guy being in the middle is going to hurt the Celtics too much there. He'll get the foul call anyway. Might as well put in a guy that can add something on the offensive side of the ball and can bring some energy to the team.

It is true that Z's points have decreased since Powe has stopped playing, but LeBron's have also increased and he is taking more shots.

This post has been edited by Ed Hillel: May 16 2008, 10:46 PM

[bball831]

That's the thing against Cleveland, though. None of their 3 big-men are particularly good scorers in the paint. Wallace can't score, Varejao doesn't score much either, and Z is primarily an outside shooter. James is getting contained by outside pressure, so I don't think a smaller guy being in the middle is going to hurt the Celtics too much there. He'll get the foul call anyway. Might as well put in a guy that can add something on the offensive side of the ball and can bring some energy to the team.

But Z will just shoot over Leon. It's not about in the paint. He just has to grab the ball a few feet outside the block turn and shoot over Leon. Powe wouldn't be able to anything about it. It's just not a good matchup for Powe.

[SoxScout]

Best and worst of the first two rounds of the playoffs
By John Hollinger

Put Me In Coach Award: Leon Powe, Celtics

Besides Kevin Garnett, the Celtics have four other big men. Of the four, Powe was easily the most effective in the regular season, but he's been an invisible man in the playoffs. Though the other three are struggling, Powe is averaging only 15.8 minutes per game in the postseason. In the past two games, he's sat in the second half while Doc Rivers played Glen Davis and P.J. Brown together.

This is a bizarre move. Powe, who gets little fanfare nationally, was one of the league's most effective power forwards in the regular season on a per-minute basis. His per-40 minute averages of 22.0 points and 11.2 boards jump off the page, as does his 57.2 percent shooting. In fact, Powe's 20.97 PER was seventh in the league among power forwards, outranking All-Stars Antawn Jamison, David West and Shawn Marion.

Given that Powe is both abundantly more effective statistically and has a massively better plus-minus in the postseason than Davis or Brown, it's been an odd choice to say the least. TNT's Mike Fratello alluded to five defensive mistakes Powe made in Game 2 of the Atlanta game during a telecast, presumably because Doc Rivers told him this. But one could also retort by pointing out all of the offensive mistakes that could be alleviated by having another frontcourt player in the game who actually scores once in a while.

[eddiebressoud]

One glaring weakness the Celtics have which is showing up in the halfcourt game in the playoffs is the play of the big men.

Perkins looked awful last night. During the season, he played well enough that Doc could compensate for his shortcomings. The type of game played in the playoffs magnifies them.

They have absolutely no low post game with Perkins in the game. He turns the ball over, misses his share of chippies, and has the annoying habit of needlessly putting the ball on the floor.

Leon Powe has looked bad during the playoffs. He is too small to cover Z. I suppose they could bring him in, put him on Wallace and let Garnett cover Z, but that will create a different set of problems.

When Leon is playing well, he brings energy off the bench. He gets offensive rebounds, makes the put backs, plays some d knows his role. He has done none of these things recently. In fact, he looks lost out there.

Which essentially leaves PJ and Big Baby.

I think BB could develop into a nice 7th man type off of the bench. Give the team 15-20 minutes/night of hustle, hit a few mid range jumpers etc. He needs to become a better rebounder, would be nice to see him grab an offensive ribbie now and then.

PJ Brown may actually have to play some important minutes if we continue to have the big man holiday...This thought does not help my insomnia.

[Sprowl]

Leon Powe is a specialist in rebounding. He is always blocking out, carving out space, and retrieving the ball. He can't score like Davis, block shots like Perkins or keep track of a team defensive scheme like Brown. But in a game like Friday's, when the Celtics were getting mauled on the boards and none of their big men were scoring inside anyway, Powe needs to get some burn.

That's not a criticism of Davis, who did pick up several offensive boards and was fouled on the wrist at least twice while attempting to go back up with the ball. It's just a recognition that aside from Garnett, the Celtics' big men are limited by their athleticism and skill sets, and substitutions need to be dictated by team needs. When inability to get rebounds is killing the team, Powe and Garnett need to be in the game.

In fairness, Ilgauskas, Wallace, Smith and Varejao are good defensive big men who swarm the lane well and earn almost as many of their blocks as the officials gave them. But Doc seems to be one or two games behind in recognizing and making the adjustment. He stuck with Cassell too long (wasn't House a breath of fresh air last night?), and last night he went back to Davis too many times.

This post has been edited by Sprowl: May 17 2008, 10:40 AM

[HomeRunBaker]

I can at least see an argument for Davis verses Powe, although I'd still pick Powe in a heartbeat. But PJ Brown? He's old, slow, a poor defender at this age, can't jump, and he can't drive to the hoop. The only thing he can do is hit a wide open shot from the elbow. How does he bring more to the table than Leon Powe?

Better length to defend the rim, better jumpshot off rotating defenses, better straight-up defender and more experience in how playoff games are officiated (what you can and cant get away with in the paint). Bottom line, PJ Brown has been more effective recently due to these reasons.

Rocco is right though.....Doc has played Powe and Davis off each other all year. Nobody was complaining on Wednesday night when Davis was a major factor in the win.

[Jeff Van GULLY]

Two times isn't enough. Baby was absolutely mugged tonight and got no calls.

He was getting killed down low but you could also tell it was affecting his concentration. He made several stupid decisions in the 2nd half and especially the 4th quarter that cost the Celtics some vital points. It was clear to me that he needed to be pulled and I thought Powe was the logical substitution. I mean look at what Eddie House did tonight; he rides the pine all series and comes in and does his fucking job that nothing has changed from the regular season.

Frustrating game but it was clear that the rookie was in over his head in the 4th quarter, Powe should have seen some time tonight.

[Ed Hillel]

Leon Powe is a specialist in rebounding. He is always blocking out, carving out space, and retrieving the ball. He can't score like Davis, block shots like Perkins or keep track of a team defensive scheme like Brown. But in a game like Friday's, when the Celtics were getting mauled on the boards and none of their big men were scoring inside anyway, Powe needs to get some burn.

I don't understand this sentiment. Points per minute during the regular season:

Leon Powe - .55

Glen Davis - .33

That means that Powe scored at 166.6% the rate then Glen Davis did. Part of it may be because he can get the offensive rebounds and easy putbacks, but Powe has more ability to get to the hoop and to score. Considering that Davis isn't that good of a defender (he's slow and still fouls way too much), I don't really see where Davis is a better option than Powe. At this stage in his career, PJ Brown certainly isn't. The way Perkins has played this series, I'm not even sure he is. I'm surprised there hasn't been more talk of how poorly Perkins has played, quite frankly.

[Commander Shears]

Considering that Davis isn't that good of a defender (he's slow and still fouls way too much), I don't really see where Davis is a better option than Powe.

According to Ryen Russillo, whenever the coaches have reviewed game film during this series, they have become convinced that Powe freestyles too much and ignores his schematic responsibilities. Meanwhile, they are consistently pleased with Davis' performance on the same measures as well as generally being high on his so-called 'basketball IQ'. I'm not sure I agree with them, but from the day he got here, the coaching staff's criticisms of Powe have consistently related to his not 'knowing the stuff' as Doc would say. They seem to think that his success leads him to get carried away and start trying to do too much. I think that explains his predictable arc of sitting on the bench, coming in and doing well, then he gets more minutes and starts to rack up stats only for the coaches to yank hard on the leash and stick him back on the bench.

This post has been edited by Commander Shears: May 17 2008, 05:11 PM