2016 Miami Dolphins: Amazing Gase
- Thread starter sodenj5
- Start date
Lots of very good players out there in round 2. The Myles Jack knee concerns are real. I think if he somehow makes it to Miami, they pull the trigger. Miami had to go D in round 2.
Guys that I would love to see in round 2:
The odds of Miami getting a very good player in round 2 look good.
Guys that I would love to see in round 2:
- Myles Jack
- Reggie Ragland
- S'ua Cravens
- Vonn Bell
- Xavien Howard
- Mackensie Alexander
- Kendall Fuller
The odds of Miami getting a very good player in round 2 look good.
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I'm not going to get into a Tannehill debate, but I will say this: he wasn't the problem last year. He ran a dumbed down college scheme that worked for one year. His line at one point consisted of Jamil Douglas snapping balls over his head, Jason Fox who would either get beat or hold his man every other play, and The Dallas Thomas Turnstyle Experience.
If the o-line stays healthy and guys like Parker and Ajayi take a step forward this year, the offense could take a big leap forward.
I'm far more concerned about the defense than the offense right now.
Also, just to put a bow on the first round, for the 8th overall pick, Miami got Kiko Alonso, Byron Maxwell, and Laremy Tunsil. Wow.
yes...they need to address LB, DE and CB at the minimum. the offense is largely set, now except at RB. Tannehill, Ajayi, Landry, Parker, Stills, Cameron, the five o-linemen above with decent depth (hazel the 4th WR?)
2nd and 3rd round they go BAP on defense I would think. Imagine if they get Jack? lol
Jack seems like the right guy for a team with a 2-3 year window (i.e. high risk he won't play much after that) so I'm surprised he made it through the 20's. Not sure he'll make it past the Giants again.
My thought as well. Giants missed out on Floyd from Georgia, I don't think they pass on Jack. Heck, he might not make it beyond Jacksonville or Baltimore either.
Basically any team he was mocked to in the first round has another crack at him now.
This is all stemming from Armando Salguero's speculation. Dude is basically guessing and people are quoting it as a reliable source. Is it possible? Sure. Albert played guard in college. He can probably benefit from a move inside and would allow him to play at a high level for longer.
I'm sure they mix and match a bit in training camp, but I think Tunsil is the starting LT.
I couldn't agree more. Armando's speculation right now isn't worth shit. Is guard possible? Sure, but not anymore than LT at this point.
This dude's legit. Moving Albert inside not only extends his career, but it's also more likely to keep him healthy for the season. Will he be overpaid? Absolutely. But he's the perfect guy to put on Tunsil's hip this kid; someone who can mentor a young kid who's made some questionable off the field decisions as a young adult. The primary concern? Albert getting butt-hurt over the move.
So, right now, the Fins have Bushrod, Turner, Douglas, Urbik, Thomas battling for 1 guard spot. This unit, depth included, should be significantly upgraded from last season.
Same guy admitted taking money from his coaches on the same day.
This could be the best pick of the 2016 draft or the worst. And I think we'll know in under 2 years.
Agreed. Albert seems very much like a team-first kind of guy. He already came back from his devastating knee injury and made the Pro Bowl at LT last year. He doesn't really have anything to "prove" in that regard. I think he can be easily sold on moving to guard and mentoring Tunsil. It's a mutually beneficial move and the line gets greatly improved Week 1.
Also, Tunsil seems like a much more sure bet than a Joeckel or an Eric Fisher, guys that had upside but maybe not elite tape or production in college. Tunsil is a flat out stud, and if he stays healthy and cleans up the off field issues, he's a Pro Bowl LT for the next 5+ years.
It would be HIGHLY unusual for a veteran to move positions to accommodate a rookie.
It is is more likely that Tunsil plays LG until Albert gets hurt again. I don't understand how playing G instead of T makes Albert less likely to get hurt - at this point, Albert is over 30 and has an injury history. He's gonna get hurt at some point and then Tunsil can slide outside.
Also, I don't think Tunsil has played any RT in college, so that's probably where some of this is coming from.
However they line up, if Albert can stay healthy, the Fins OL is much better today. Assuming Tunsil isn't Dion Jordan 2.0, the Fins got a lot better. Tunsil qualified for the CBA Drug Policy last night, so he will be subject to frequent random testing instead of the once-a-year testing most players are subject to. That's a factor. If Tunsil can stay clean, he's a great pick for the Fins. If not, he's still a great pick, given half of the guys taken last night are (statistically) likely to be a bust.
It is is more likely that Tunsil plays LG until Albert gets hurt again. I don't understand how playing G instead of T makes Albert less likely to get hurt - at this point, Albert is over 30 and has an injury history. He's gonna get hurt at some point and then Tunsil can slide outside.
Also, I don't think Tunsil has played any RT in college, so that's probably where some of this is coming from.
However they line up, if Albert can stay healthy, the Fins OL is much better today. Assuming Tunsil isn't Dion Jordan 2.0, the Fins got a lot better. Tunsil qualified for the CBA Drug Policy last night, so he will be subject to frequent random testing instead of the once-a-year testing most players are subject to. That's a factor. If Tunsil can stay clean, he's a great pick for the Fins. If not, he's still a great pick, given half of the guys taken last night are (statistically) likely to be a bust.
SF121,
Perhaps it's inaccurate, but it was my assumption that facing a team's best pass rusher every week is typically a lot more physically taxing than lining up on the interior.
Are you aware of the rule regarding the NFL's drug program? I am not; however, I read that because the Tunsil video was made 2 years ago, he wouldn't have to enroll. I'm going to see what I can find on that.
Perhaps it's inaccurate, but it was my assumption that facing a team's best pass rusher every week is typically a lot more physically taxing than lining up on the interior.
Are you aware of the rule regarding the NFL's drug program? I am not; however, I read that because the Tunsil video was made 2 years ago, he wouldn't have to enroll. I'm going to see what I can find on that.
I think anyone on an NFL field is at risk of injury, regardless of position. I am unaware of any study or opinion that says playing guard makes someone less likely to be injured. I'd be interested in such a study or data that suggests that, though.
The CBA Drug Policy provisions can be found via Google (I'm mobile, so no link). Basically, the video is enough to get Tunsil referred to the "clinicians" who determine whether a player is put into the program or not. Based on the video, it is a good bet that he will be in the program. He would then need to fail several tests OR run afoul of the program guidelines for future actions.
Tunsil and his reps claim the video was made more than two years ago. The only surefire way to get in the program before you sign an NFL contract is to fail the Combine drug test. He apparently did not fail those test(s). There's a chance that whomever he meets with from the program believes the "two years ago" story and does not refer him into the program. But it is more likely, IMO, that the league and the program will put Tunsil on the watch list. If he doesn't use drugs and doesn't fail tests, he won't end up like Dion Jordan.
However, if he doesn't get entered into the program AND subsequently gets pulled over with drugs... that probably helps Josh Gordon & others who are suing the program. So it is highly likely the video (alone) qualifies Tunsil for the program - if only so the NFL & NFLPA are covered legally.
Regardless of whether or not the NFL uses their discretion and places him in the drug program for something he did in college several years ago, he's never failed a drug test. He passed the one at the combine, he passed the ones in college. He's at least smart enough to know that he can't fail drug tests if he wants to play.
It isn't a huge secret that players need to be clean from about April until whenever it is their random annual screening is in the offseason. By all accounts, it isn't difficult to find out when your screening is and when you need to be clean. It's just a matter of are you smart enough, or do you care enough about football to not test positive, or do you not give a shit/are you an addict like Dion Jordan? I'm guessing Tunsil is the former and not the latter.
Also, the league said Noah Spence won't be entered into the drug program, despite being kicked out of Ohio State for failed drug tests. I find it hard to believe that they put Tunsil in Stage 1 for a video of unknown date and origin.
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Also, in reference to Albert and his longevity, I'm not referring strictly to his health. His health is pretty much always a question mark, and playing football is inherently dangerous. His physical ability to keep up with elite pass rushers as a left tackle would be my biggest concern.
As a guy with a lot of injuries and reaching an age where a decline can be expected, I think pushing him inside to guard allows them to hide his declining speed and reaction times that are necessary to play left tackle at a high level. He can still be a very good offensive lineman, but maybe no longer an elite left tackle. Let the young guy with rare athletic ability for his size handle the fast twitch DEs. I think Albert can play guard at a very high level for the next 2-3 years.
Either way, it's a very good problem for Miami to have. I think they watch it play out in training camp. If Albert looks great, then keep him at LT and play Tunsil at LG. If Tunsil looks great and Albert is looking a half step slower, make the move.
As a guy with a lot of injuries and reaching an age where a decline can be expected, I think pushing him inside to guard allows them to hide his declining speed and reaction times that are necessary to play left tackle at a high level. He can still be a very good offensive lineman, but maybe no longer an elite left tackle. Let the young guy with rare athletic ability for his size handle the fast twitch DEs. I think Albert can play guard at a very high level for the next 2-3 years.
Either way, it's a very good problem for Miami to have. I think they watch it play out in training camp. If Albert looks great, then keep him at LT and play Tunsil at LG. If Tunsil looks great and Albert is looking a half step slower, make the move.
I get the "Don't snitch" angle, but as a Dolphin fan who doesn't care about Ole Miss, I kind of saw that moment as a small positive...
I totally read that as him trying to live up to the good, honest guy he just told everyone that he was. I read it as him trying to defer it, but when it came back up he blurted out the truth in an effort to avoid "liar" to the resume of negatives that was beginning to pile up.
It was a no win situation, and really I don't blame the kid who was in the unthinkable situation, they could have shielded him better in that moment considering the unique circumstances.
Upon further reflection today, I certainly like the pick more.
It certainly made sense since there wasn't a standout there at #13, so the reward outweighs the risk.
And looking at the situation - he wasn't arrested, he didn't fail a drug test, he wasn't labeled an asshole, etc..he had the misfortune of having a couple mistakes and bad decisions aired to a national viewing audience. It doesn't exonerate him, but if you judged every guy in that green room by a couple private videos/texts, they'd likely be in a similar situation.
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Agreed, and at that point, being honest was probably his best move. They asked him if he was in the video, he said yes. They asked if those were his texts asking for money, he said yes. It might suck for Ole Miss, but Tunsil did the right thing by coming clean. Once training camp starts, no one will be thinking about the video if he's pasting lineman and linebackers other than to think how fortunate it was that Miami managed to get him at 13.
You may well be correct.
However, the Drug Policy is a joint NFLPA & NFL program under the CBA. The video shows the guy using, and admitting to using on national TV - both in interviews and via his agent.
The thing about the "program" is mitigating risk; the league and the players have negotiated the program in order to facilitate player safety and keep their risk under control as employers. It exists to help players AND to cover the employer (the NFL) and the union (NFLPA) under employment law. When in doubt, assume that an employer will do whatever they can to mitigate legal risk.
I hope Tunsil has a long, productive career in the NFL with the Dolphins. I hope he doesn't have issues with addiction, which is a terrible thing for anyone.
But I disagree with your disbelief. I have a hard time seeing why a player who is seen on video using drugs wouldn't be referred into the collectively bargained drug program offered by his employer. Based on the general risk, based on reading the provisions of the program, and based on the guy I just saw on NFL Network - who was reading from the CBA while standing outside the Dolphins facility - I think it is highly likely Tunsil will meet with the drug counselors and end up in the program. But unless something terrible happens OR if he doesn't use drugs and fail tests, we'll never know either way.
Lastly, it's pretty clear Tunsil isn't smart enough to avoid being videotaped while using drugs. Credit to him for admitting it was him in the video when asked last night. I hope he gets help if he needs it and I hope he has a long career in the NFL. I felt bad for the kid last night because something stupid he did was being shown on national TV and what casual fans know about him today is that he's the Gas Mask guy. That sucks for him.
Can't make this up
Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter 17s17 seconds ago
Dolphins said Laremy Tunsil had an allergic reaction and will not be appearing at today's previously scheduled press conference.
Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter 17s17 seconds ago
Dolphins said Laremy Tunsil had an allergic reaction and will not be appearing at today's previously scheduled press conference.
Miami selects Xavien Howard, CB out of Baylor.
With Alexander on the board, you can question the pick, but he fits exactly what they're looking for in a CB. Big, fast, played a lot of cover 3 and press man at Baylor. Great ball skills. 9 INTs in 2014 and 2015 combined.
He's going to be the starter opposite Maxwell. Vance Joseph's specialty is DBs. I trust their judgement that this is their guy.
With Alexander on the board, you can question the pick, but he fits exactly what they're looking for in a CB. Big, fast, played a lot of cover 3 and press man at Baylor. Great ball skills. 9 INTs in 2014 and 2015 combined.
He's going to be the starter opposite Maxwell. Vance Joseph's specialty is DBs. I trust their judgement that this is their guy.
Yeah, it's hard to question this pick with Joseph on the coaching staff. Most scouting reports describe him as a ballhawk comfortable in press coverage, great hips/shiftiness. The concern is his deep speed ability/desire to tackle.
My biggest issue with the move? Giving up a 4th round pick to move up 2 spots. Awfully expensive. In comparison, the Jags gave up a 5th to move up 2 spots for Jack.
Edit: Grier cited an expected run at CB for his decision to move up. No CB have been selected (as of yet) since the Fins selection, and we're at pick 45.
My biggest issue with the move? Giving up a 4th round pick to move up 2 spots. Awfully expensive. In comparison, the Jags gave up a 5th to move up 2 spots for Jack.
Edit: Grier cited an expected run at CB for his decision to move up. No CB have been selected (as of yet) since the Fins selection, and we're at pick 45.
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Love Drake pick. matchup nightmare for defenses. This team has so many weapons. IF they can get a real running game between the tackles and confidence to move the chains on 3rd and 1/2 then will cause real headaches
I also don't think it should be understated that Drake may be the new return man, freeing up Jarvis Landry. Landry was back their basically on one leg at the end of they year returning punts and kicks because no one else could.
The other thing is their talk about Ajayi likely wasn't all talk this week. Gase seemed truly impressed with him. Taking a guy that compliments him rather than a guy similar to him that would compete with him for carries seems to be a vote of confidence that Ajayi can be the guy.
The other thing is their talk about Ajayi likely wasn't all talk this week. Gase seemed truly impressed with him. Taking a guy that compliments him rather than a guy similar to him that would compete with him for carries seems to be a vote of confidence that Ajayi can be the guy.
Outside Tunsil selection, the Leonte Carroo pick is easily my favorite. Love the kid. Fast, strong, and has great hands; I think he'll net a Landry-like return. Supposedly the Patriots were really high on him. The price to re-enter the 3rd was predictably costly -- Miami gave up their 6th (2017) and 3rd and 4th picks next season, which just so happen to be the rounds in which they expect to receive compensatory picks for their FA losses. This addition even makes me like the reach for Drake to fill our RB/returner needs; both could turn out to be key playmakers in the offense as early as this season. Really nice draft thus far.
The goal seems to be to lose every game 38-35 next year versus losing 21-16 a couple years ago.
So are they going to trade stills for a pick?
One defensive player taken is shocking. Trading three picks away? Not surprising. It's so frustrating
So are they going to trade stills for a pick?
One defensive player taken is shocking. Trading three picks away? Not surprising. It's so frustrating
I think it's good that Miami is targeting "their guys." Stills is a FA next year. If Caroo takes over for him, no one blinks at what they gave up to get him. Also, outside of the top 3, Miami was a bit thin at WR.
I'm also surprised that you're surprised that they're going offense heavy. Gase is an offensive guy. He wants to score points in bunches. Miami has more holes than they can fill in one draft. Realistically, guys selected in the third day are special teams players/depth.
Let's recap the draft quickly:
Miami gets maybe the best player in the draft at 13, immediately upgrading their line wherever he plays and getting a LT of the future. Home run. Jack was likely the pick if Tunsil didn't fall into their lap.
They get a big, press coverage corner that they said was a guy they wanted and a guy they were targeting. CB was a giant hole they plugged. This is after they reportedly tried repeatedly to trade up for Jack, but didn't want to pay a ransom for a guy who's knee might only last 3-4 years. Love the pick of Howard, personally.
They get a complimentary back/return man that, again, they wanted. Drake fits well with Ajayi and brings a lot to the table.
They get a WR that, again, they really wanted. Could they have sat back and taken a LB or a DB that ends up being a quality backup? Sure. They got a guy they think is a second round talent and may contribute right away this year, possibly becoming a starter next year.
I'd say they should lean defense with remaining picks, but I like what they've done. In three years, if Tunsil is the starting LT, Howard is a starting CB, Drake is a successful partner in the backfield with Ajayi, and Caroo is a starter, this draft is a major home run.
I'm also surprised that you're surprised that they're going offense heavy. Gase is an offensive guy. He wants to score points in bunches. Miami has more holes than they can fill in one draft. Realistically, guys selected in the third day are special teams players/depth.
Let's recap the draft quickly:
Miami gets maybe the best player in the draft at 13, immediately upgrading their line wherever he plays and getting a LT of the future. Home run. Jack was likely the pick if Tunsil didn't fall into their lap.
They get a big, press coverage corner that they said was a guy they wanted and a guy they were targeting. CB was a giant hole they plugged. This is after they reportedly tried repeatedly to trade up for Jack, but didn't want to pay a ransom for a guy who's knee might only last 3-4 years. Love the pick of Howard, personally.
They get a complimentary back/return man that, again, they wanted. Drake fits well with Ajayi and brings a lot to the table.
They get a WR that, again, they really wanted. Could they have sat back and taken a LB or a DB that ends up being a quality backup? Sure. They got a guy they think is a second round talent and may contribute right away this year, possibly becoming a starter next year.
I'd say they should lean defense with remaining picks, but I like what they've done. In three years, if Tunsil is the starting LT, Howard is a starting CB, Drake is a successful partner in the backfield with Ajayi, and Caroo is a starter, this draft is a major home run.
Wouldn't any team getting four starters out of their top four picks in the draft be "a major home run"? How likely is that to happen?
Lots to like about Day 1 & 2 for the Fins. I like Howard a lot, especially in what we think Vance Joseph's scheme is going to look like. He fits that mold of a boundary corner. Tunsil is probably a franchise LT. When you get a starting corner and a cornerstone lineman, you get an A.
But I'm not a Kenyan Drake fan, because of the fumble rate.
Kelvin Taylor Fan Club President
But I'm not a Kenyan Drake fan, because of the fumble rate.
Signed,
Kelvin Taylor Fan Club President
I wasn't a fan of Howard based on the five games I watched. He gets a good jam at the line and transitions to bail technique smoothly but he got beaten deep way too much - at least once in four of the five games I watched, even if some of them didn't connect. His measurables weren't great either - broad jump and short shuttle about average, terrible in vertical and 3 cone, below-average 40. Some good ball skills plays and some bad ones - he had some picks but really struggled defending backshoulder throws, and he committed too many penalties. Didn't look good in off man when he played there, but I think everyone acknowledges he's more of a press guy. The funny thing about him as a press guy is that he has below-average arm length despite being tall - Mack Alexander and Cyrus Jones actually have longer arms despite being two inches shorter. His tackling and run D I would say are fine for a college corner.
Howard definitely has his devotees - Greg Cosell really likes him and I respect his opinion a lot. Maybe I just saw the wrong games. Of what I saw, Texas Tech was his best game (sweet pick at 3:44) and North Carolina probably the worst (with breakdowns at 0:17, 2:31, and 3:07).
Howard definitely has his devotees - Greg Cosell really likes him and I respect his opinion a lot. Maybe I just saw the wrong games. Of what I saw, Texas Tech was his best game (sweet pick at 3:44) and North Carolina probably the worst (with breakdowns at 0:17, 2:31, and 3:07).
Yeah not a bad day player wise but they really mis read the board. Howard would have been a stretch with their own pick, never mind moving up to grab him. I just don't think he was a second round talent on many boards. That said, sure it's good to go after the guys you want and to be decisive
Interestingly enough the CBSSports comp for Howard was Byron Maxwell.
If nothing else it seems like the team has a clear vision and are targeting players they feel will succeed within their system, something which hasn't often been the case the past ten plus years.
I've seen quite a bit of criticism elsewhere regarding the trades to move up.
With no context I'd tend to lean toward the idea that you want to hold on to your picks, but looking at yesterday I wouldn't say it's good or bad.
All it really does is remove any safety net for the Front Office.
If those guys hit no one will are about what they gave up. If they aren't at least solid starters than those picks will look awful. It just raises expectations for those players.
If nothing else it seems like the team has a clear vision and are targeting players they feel will succeed within their system, something which hasn't often been the case the past ten plus years.
I've seen quite a bit of criticism elsewhere regarding the trades to move up.
With no context I'd tend to lean toward the idea that you want to hold on to your picks, but looking at yesterday I wouldn't say it's good or bad.
All it really does is remove any safety net for the Front Office.
If those guys hit no one will are about what they gave up. If they aren't at least solid starters than those picks will look awful. It just raises expectations for those players.
Great stuff, everyone.
Drake's fumbling issue certainly warrants keeping an eye on. On the positive side, he only fumbled 1x in 2015, a year in which Saban specifically mentioned this area as a focus of his development. Like Abdullah showed last year in the NFL -- no matter your talent, if you can't keep the ball off the ground, you can't play. Protecting possession is everything.
I'd probably question the Xavien pick a lot more if Vance Joseph wasn't Miami's defensive coordinator. Howard was clearly his choice, so it's one of those situations that you trust the staff to coach e'm up accordingly. You definitely see the flashes on tape and in press, short coverage, and jump ball opportunities, but he needs more consistency. As was mentioned, also, he has a tendency to get beat deep. Personality wise, he appears to be a tough, motivated kid.
Drake's fumbling issue certainly warrants keeping an eye on. On the positive side, he only fumbled 1x in 2015, a year in which Saban specifically mentioned this area as a focus of his development. Like Abdullah showed last year in the NFL -- no matter your talent, if you can't keep the ball off the ground, you can't play. Protecting possession is everything.
I'd probably question the Xavien pick a lot more if Vance Joseph wasn't Miami's defensive coordinator. Howard was clearly his choice, so it's one of those situations that you trust the staff to coach e'm up accordingly. You definitely see the flashes on tape and in press, short coverage, and jump ball opportunities, but he needs more consistency. As was mentioned, also, he has a tendency to get beat deep. Personality wise, he appears to be a tough, motivated kid.
Posting this both here and DFG, because I think it is somewhat relevant to both
Eric Winston
@ericwinston
The NFL invested big on this marketing campaign of “family.” It was all over Chicago on every billboard.
Eric Winston @ericwinston
Let me dish out some free advice to the young men coming into this league this weekend: they are not your family. This is a business.
Eric Winston
@ericwinston The NFL invested big on this marketing campaign of “family.” It was all over Chicago on every billboard.
Eric Winston
@ericwinston Let me dish out some free advice to the young men coming into this league this weekend: they are not your family. This is a business.
That's where I'm at as well. I think he would struggle in off man or cover 2. He's going to be in a system that will allow him to do what he does best. Joseph is highly regarded as a developer of DB talent. Miami brought Howard in pre-draft and traded up to get him. This was clearly a case of them getting their guy, the guy they thought would best fit their scheme. Is Alexander a better prospect? Probably. They felt like Howard was going to be the better fit.
I like to see them drafting guys with conviction. This is our guy, and we're taking him. Makes it seem like there might be an actual plan or vision in place.
I need to throw a shout-out to all of you contributing draft-related analyses to this thread. I haven't even bothered with most of the mainstream media coverage thanks to all the heavy-lifting being done by fellow Phins' fans, sodenj, pdaj, rymflaherty, etc., along with additional perspective provided by the non-fans here. Your efforts and insight are appreciated.
FWIW, it's nice that this year's draft has been generally viewed as strong--but what with it being Miami and all--truckloads of salt grains are on standby. I am cautiously optimistic that Tanny will improve based on system and personnel changes--just not sure by how much, due to his--you know--head. Also, with the emphasis on offense and questions remaining on D, I wonder if we're in for an offensive/defensive imbalance akin to much of the Marino era. As Clears pointed out, I guess we can find consolation in the excitement of our offense racking up points, while ultimately surrendering 30+ per game.
FWIW, it's nice that this year's draft has been generally viewed as strong--but what with it being Miami and all--truckloads of salt grains are on standby. I am cautiously optimistic that Tanny will improve based on system and personnel changes--just not sure by how much, due to his--you know--head. Also, with the emphasis on offense and questions remaining on D, I wonder if we're in for an offensive/defensive imbalance akin to much of the Marino era. As Clears pointed out, I guess we can find consolation in the excitement of our offense racking up points, while ultimately surrendering 30+ per game.
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I think that's the key.
His negatives I see listed - awareness, opening his hips, deep ball coverage, etc. - are all things they realistically can look at and think they can develop.
Looking at his positives on ProFootballFocus - Size/Frame, Physicality and Ball-Skills are qualities you can't teach.
The "ball skills" is what I find most encouraging, because I happen to believe that isn't something that magically develops at the pro level. So I do like seeing that as a perceived strength as well as a good number of Int's at the collegiate level. Nothing would frustrate me more than drafting a CB with like 3-4 career Int's and then people acting shocked when he's unable to make plays and force turnover's in the NFL.
Always great to have you chime in, dwainw. Sodenj really gets the ball moving around here, while I just stop by whenever my Dolphins-related depression subsides. As you said, though, it's also great to get the feedback from non-Phins fans, as they tend to be a little more objective. We haven't been trolled here in a while, which makes the discussion so much more enjoyable.
The more I look at Howards' game tape, the more he reminds me a little bit of Sean Smith. Sure, Smith is 3" taller than Xavien, which is a big deal, but Howard still has plus size for his position. Here's how their college scouting reports stack up:
Smith:
PRO DAY RESULTS
40-yard dash: 4.47 seconds
Vertical: 32 inches
Broad jump: 9 feet, 11 inches
3-cone: 6.92 seconds
Howard:
PRO DAY RESULTS
40-yard dash: 4.41 seconds
Vertical: 38 1/2 inches
Broad jump: 10 feet, 5 inches
3-cone: 6.94 seconds
Smith:
STRENGTHS Positives: Good height and great length for a boundary corner. ... Very quick feet for his size. ... Runs well with taller receivers down the sideline, but also lines up in the slot. ... Former receiver has great ball skills and the vertical to go up and get the ball. ... Able to locate and high-point in coverage. ... Elusive runner with some vision to flip field position after the interception. ... Forces fumbles by using his length to get a hand on the ball. ... Has the size and closing speed to be an effective blitzer. ... Very quick to support the run or attack quick screens and passes in the flat. ... Reacts quickly on plays in front of him and finds the ball well in the air.
WEAKNESSES: Might be seen as a corner/safety "tweener." ... Stiff in the upper body. ... Does not play with the physicality scouts would like given his size. ... Is slow to adjust when backpedaling if a receiver cuts his route short or goes to the skinny post. ... Catch-and-drag tackler whose height is a disadvantage when trying to bring down ballcarriers with a low center of gravity. ... Inconsistent using his hands at the line of scrimmage. ... Gets stuck on blocks. ... Takes poor angles to make tackles in space or when attacking a screen. ... Just a little more than two years of experience on defense. ... Cocky and talks trash.
Howard:
STRENGTHS: Has feet to impede and crowd receivers from press. Short-area accelerator to chase and close on slants and crossers. Has hips that swivel open for easy turn-and-run ability. Asked to be an island corner all game long. Confidence level soared in 2015. Instinctive with ball skills that are undeniable. Uses well-timed head turn to find ball and react. Scrapes, claws, scratches, clubs and tears and the catch point to disrupt. Has 32 passes defensed, including nine interceptions, over last two years. Big and physical in coverage.
WEAKNESSES: Quicker than fast with questionable long speed. Handsy and panics when he thinks he might get beat. Mauls like a bear downfield rather than trusting his technique. Has 14 pass interference and 5 holding penalties against him over last two seasons. Speed tends to diminish when turning to find the ball. Will lose feel for receivers at break point. Allowed seven touchdowns in 2014. Not a "get downhill and attack" run defender and stays glued to blocked.
Edit: A more in-depth Smith draft scouting profile notes:
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/historical/559569
Compares To: ALAN ZEMAITIS, ex-Tampa Bay -- Smith lacks the loose hips to stay with receivers on deep routes and would be more valuable when used as a centerfield safety than press cornerback. Tall corners with hip stiffness end up like Zemaitis, playing for Hamilton in the CFL in 2008. Move Smith inside to safety and he's at least a Brodney Pool (Cleveland) type of player with great hands and timing to come up with a bunch of interceptions.
The more I look at Howards' game tape, the more he reminds me a little bit of Sean Smith. Sure, Smith is 3" taller than Xavien, which is a big deal, but Howard still has plus size for his position. Here's how their college scouting reports stack up:
Smith:
PRO DAY RESULTS
40-yard dash: 4.47 seconds
Vertical: 32 inches
Broad jump: 9 feet, 11 inches
3-cone: 6.92 seconds
Howard:
PRO DAY RESULTS
40-yard dash: 4.41 seconds
Vertical: 38 1/2 inches
Broad jump: 10 feet, 5 inches
3-cone: 6.94 seconds
Smith:
STRENGTHS Positives: Good height and great length for a boundary corner. ... Very quick feet for his size. ... Runs well with taller receivers down the sideline, but also lines up in the slot. ... Former receiver has great ball skills and the vertical to go up and get the ball. ... Able to locate and high-point in coverage. ... Elusive runner with some vision to flip field position after the interception. ... Forces fumbles by using his length to get a hand on the ball. ... Has the size and closing speed to be an effective blitzer. ... Very quick to support the run or attack quick screens and passes in the flat. ... Reacts quickly on plays in front of him and finds the ball well in the air.
WEAKNESSES: Might be seen as a corner/safety "tweener." ... Stiff in the upper body. ... Does not play with the physicality scouts would like given his size. ... Is slow to adjust when backpedaling if a receiver cuts his route short or goes to the skinny post. ... Catch-and-drag tackler whose height is a disadvantage when trying to bring down ballcarriers with a low center of gravity. ... Inconsistent using his hands at the line of scrimmage. ... Gets stuck on blocks. ... Takes poor angles to make tackles in space or when attacking a screen. ... Just a little more than two years of experience on defense. ... Cocky and talks trash.
Howard:
STRENGTHS: Has feet to impede and crowd receivers from press. Short-area accelerator to chase and close on slants and crossers. Has hips that swivel open for easy turn-and-run ability. Asked to be an island corner all game long. Confidence level soared in 2015. Instinctive with ball skills that are undeniable. Uses well-timed head turn to find ball and react. Scrapes, claws, scratches, clubs and tears and the catch point to disrupt. Has 32 passes defensed, including nine interceptions, over last two years. Big and physical in coverage.
WEAKNESSES: Quicker than fast with questionable long speed. Handsy and panics when he thinks he might get beat. Mauls like a bear downfield rather than trusting his technique. Has 14 pass interference and 5 holding penalties against him over last two seasons. Speed tends to diminish when turning to find the ball. Will lose feel for receivers at break point. Allowed seven touchdowns in 2014. Not a "get downhill and attack" run defender and stays glued to blocked.
Edit: A more in-depth Smith draft scouting profile notes:
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/historical/559569
Compares To: ALAN ZEMAITIS, ex-Tampa Bay -- Smith lacks the loose hips to stay with receivers on deep routes and would be more valuable when used as a centerfield safety than press cornerback. Tall corners with hip stiffness end up like Zemaitis, playing for Hamilton in the CFL in 2008. Move Smith inside to safety and he's at least a Brodney Pool (Cleveland) type of player with great hands and timing to come up with a bunch of interceptions.
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The Grant pick is the first one that is a bit baffling, especially since they just drafted Drake and Carroo.
Admittedly though I haven't been paying too close attention to know how Grant's value related to other players on the board.
Maybe it shouldn't be a complete surprise though, because it does seem to keep with the theme of this draft, as Grant is another guy with abilities that you can't coach. In Grant's case it's the ridiculous raw speed and play-making ability (at least on the college level).
Admittedly though I haven't been paying too close attention to know how Grant's value related to other players on the board.
Maybe it shouldn't be a complete surprise though, because it does seem to keep with the theme of this draft, as Grant is another guy with abilities that you can't coach. In Grant's case it's the ridiculous raw speed and play-making ability (at least on the college level).
It seems like they drafted him specifically as a return man. Anything they get out of him as a receiver is a bonus. Guy said he was pissed when he ran a 4.3. He's been hand timed at 4.1. Like you said, you can't coach 4.1.
Between he and Drake, they'll have a nice pair of returners and finally take some of the load off of Landry.
Also, Miami traded Jamar Taylor to Cleveland.
I'm only really surprised that they managed to get anything at all for Taylor. A guy that had all the physical tools but couldn't stay healthy and then played pretty poorly last year when he was given a shot.
I'm only really surprised that they managed to get anything at all for Taylor. A guy that had all the physical tools but couldn't stay healthy and then played pretty poorly last year when he was given a shot.
The Dolphins use one of their 7th rounders on QB Brandon Doughty. He was @Masho 16th ranked QB:
http://insidethepylon.com/nfl/2016-nfl-draft/2016/04/15/scouting-report-brandon-doughty/
http://insidethepylon.com/nfl/2016-nfl-draft/2016/04/15/scouting-report-brandon-doughty/
Miami also takes Duarte, the TE from UCLA. Measureables comparable to Jordan Reed. Not a bad flier to take in the 7th.
PFF analysis:
10 (231) Miami Dolphins: Thomas Duarte, TE, Miami Dolphins
One of my [Mike Renner] guys in the draft. Duarte is my favorite route runner among any of the tight ends in the class. He’s very undersized for the position at 6-2, 235 pounds, but he still has enough size to create matchup issues. He took almost all of his snaps from the slot and had a higher receiving grade than any other tight end in the class.
Guys that could go undrafted that I'd immediately be interested in: Scooby Wright and Jeremy Cash.
PFF analysis:
10 (231) Miami Dolphins: Thomas Duarte, TE, Miami Dolphins
One of my [Mike Renner] guys in the draft. Duarte is my favorite route runner among any of the tight ends in the class. He’s very undersized for the position at 6-2, 235 pounds, but he still has enough size to create matchup issues. He took almost all of his snaps from the slot and had a higher receiving grade than any other tight end in the class.
Guys that could go undrafted that I'd immediately be interested in: Scooby Wright and Jeremy Cash.