Basically every article is somebody's agenda, so it helps to go into it trying to figure out who. In this case, I would guess the sources are a combination of owner-side, some players, and likely some BoB staff. That's not to say it's not true, but rather it is going to lack nuance and fit a narrative. In this case the narrative is clearly "Bill needs to go, he screwed up" with a good bit of self-interest in making sure the blame all falls on Bill by guys giving the quotes.
I agree. But its also why Im a little surprised to see the pushback on guys like Trent Brown. I know he hasn't endeared himself here, but he's been openly critical of the team, which is refreshing to see in any sport. Unfortunately, that just means people call him a cancer and say hes "addition by subtraction" ...it is what it is, I guess. People ask you to be yourself just so they can judge you for it.
To add, it's also easy to twist whatever truth there actually is in a quote to make it fit your narrative (Bill has to go) better. The convo in question between Bill and Bob could've gone:
Copium? Invested? Its not really that complicated. The fact that he didn't suck in 2021 might have had something to do with the fact that some people thought he wouldn't suck in 2022.
The bolded is the crux of the issue: it's clear that BB doesn't want new ideas, energy, or personnel in the FO or offensive coaching staff. Even more so after seeing that he wanted to keep Patricia. The concept that he's going to stay on and we'll get all of the good parts of BB, but he'll also infuse his staff with new talent to minimize the bad parts of BB... that seems like a pipe dream.
The Browns have a third of their cap on IR and are on their fourth QB. Playoffs.
His rookie year was his best year. But he wasn't good. He was average at best, and trending down over the course of the year, embarrassingly so after the Buffalo wind game. He threw some really bad INTs late in the season that were harbingers of things to come. Maybe because he snuck on to the Pro Bowl squad somehow, everyone expected him to take a leap in 2022 when I don't think there was a lot of evidence he was ready for that.
Aren't we just a couple of weeks removed from sideline reporters admitting they make quotes up?
Brown did a soft holdout to get more money, and then decided he would practice and play when he wanted to. Unclear if the story about his telling everyone in the locker room that he was leaving is true, but if true that is a shitty thing to say in a locker room to players that are busting their ass so they don't get cut next week.
Sometimes more than one thing can be true. Offense lacks talent, but the OL injuries were also a problem that exacerbated the team's struggles.
Clear to who? Decisions that didn’t work out(Patricia) don’t necessarily indicate that he’s completely resistant to new ideas. He’s competitive, wants to win, seems to still want to do the job, and has embraced changes in the game throughout his career. I don’t think it’s nearly as much of a reach as you do.
The Browns and the Bills have much better QBs than the Patriots do. While that's an oversimplification, it's also IMO the reason. When you lose games 10-7, 10-6, and 6-0, complete with abhorrent performances by the QB, that more or less sums up the issue. Most of us agree that the defense this year has been very good. But Mac cost them at least three very winnable games.
Well, from the article it sounds like Klemm’s new ideas / philosophy, for one, were pretty much completely ignored.
It's odd to claim BB is resistant to new ideas literally one year after naming a lifelong DC as his OC.
Browns lost Jack Conklin, (2 time first team all pro) his replacement Dawand Jones, and Jedrick Willis on the OL this year. Other guys in spots, too.
Losing Watson was a benefit to them because he was terrible anyway.
To be fair, Flacco has outperformed everyone but Purdy and Lamar in the last 5 weeks.
Except it didn't state or even imply who did the "ignoring". Was it Groh, with whom he supposedly had a shouting match? Bill O'Brien? Some of the veteran players? The rookies (unlikely)? Or Belichick himself? Or is the "ignoring" not a real thing, but instead the result of Klemm having to take a medical leave halfway through the season?
You didn’t watch DTR. This year, he was worse than anything.(could get better for him in the future because he’s fast and has a strong arm) PJ was not much better.
I deleted the sentence because I saw that at least with DTR it wasn't true.
Agree to disagree; continuity is important when it comes to OL play, and the Pats had little of it this season. It was indeed a factor. Now, lack of quality depth was a roster management issue during the offseason, that bit them in the ass when play started. But the rookies got some playing time as a result, and Sow looks like a keeper going forward.
I think the Pats got into the middle of the season and decided once and for all is Mac could be The Guy, even as he and the team struggled. They gave him PLENTY of rope. I also think that's more or less a reasonable decision given he's on a rookie deal and in his 3rd year and they needed to know if he could figure things out.
I think this is revisionist history. Mac was not great down the stretch but he was by no means a disaster. I mean back in the day Tom Brady finished the year throwing 3 TDs vs 6 INT over his last 8 games and no one was too worried. Mac played horribly against Buffalo at home late 2021 but was more or less “meh” against Miami and in the playoff game, and great against an awful Jags team. No one foresaw his downfall coming.
So in hindsight.... did it?
BB's staff is primarily comprised of family members, previous BB coaches previous BB players, and children of croneys. When given the opportunity to hire outside voices - like when Josh left - he hired Matt Patricia and Joe Judge, previous coaches he worked with. When those guys were taken off OC duties, he had another chance and brought back BoB. When given the opportunity to hire an offensive line coach, he hired Adrian Klemm. Wide Receivers coach? Troy Brown can do it. Defensive coordinator? The best answer to that question is his son (obviously!) and his former MLB. I don't know how he could make it any clearer - he might be competitive, but he doesn't view new voices - especially strong ones - as a way to be more competitive.
Most NFL coaching staffs consist of former players and family members and assistants with whom the head worked with before. Been like that since forever.
But the revolving door of the same guys coming and going isn’t the same.
Rashawn Slater, Derwin James, Joey Bosa are all very good players. Jamaree Salyer and Zion Johnson have potential on the OL. Some hyperbole on this thread about just how bad the Chargers are. I think Brandon Staley was one of the worst coaches in football. I wouldn't be surprised at all if a good coach juiced up that team and they looked good next year
This is my read as well.
Because Patricia is a Belichick guy that would presumably agree with BB's ideas on offense. I think you're mistaking what people are saying when they say "new ideas". It's meant to mean new voices outside of the Belichick "tree", especially on offense.
What has been mildly disappointing is we haven't even heard the infamous "kiss of death" style vote of confidence. I understand the argument that past accomplishments do not necessarily guarantee life tenure in the coaching and GM ranks of an NFL team (although people should use the same argument when it comes to Pete Carroll, but they don't for some reason). Kraft & Kraft certainly have the right to move on from Bill if they feel it's time. However, they sort of left him hung out to dry in front of the media this season, which is not fair as Belichick does deserve better.
Exactly. Not unique, and not unto itself disqualifying of adapting to changes in the game, or embracing new ideas or even personnel.
Was he officially promoted to DC by Siriani? I thought Dasai remained the DC, but Patricia took over the defensive play calling in game.
Correct. I meant promoted in the sense that he is now the defensive play caller.
I'm not saying he was good, I'm saying that people treated it like he was the whole problem or he was so far below the worst other OCs.... he wasn't, he was just a regular bad OC, and the offense getting significantly worse after he left shows that. It was easy to say "he's a defensive coach, this is malpractice" but even then some noted that's not entirely true, he coached both sides early in his career and he was a head coach, where he was undoubtedly involved in offense quite a bit. I thought it was a dumb move, but their options were not great with Josh leaving after a lot of guys were settled, and taking his number 2 with him to be his OC.
I do. Oh I'm not saying Patricia was better than BOB, but rather that it wasn't like you just slot in a new OC and MAGIC which a lot of people thought would happen. The talent this year isn't any worse than last... less healthy for sure, but same level generally, the injuries and regression on the QB made the team worse, which is what you'd expect. People liked to treat it like last year was rock bottom and that Patricia and company where just smearing feces on the walls.
It does show something. It shows the offensive coaching staff last year wasn't a historic catastrophe and personnel was more at fault for their performance than most people previously believed. I mean, just look at how BOB's hiring was received, I remember reading someone in this very board argue BOB would represent a bigger improvement for the 2023 Patriots than keeping Patricia as OC and replacing Mac Jones with prime Tom Brady would. In retrospect, we all vastly overestimated his impact in the offense's suckitude last year.
Absolutely correct and it sometimes obscures the fact that many of them are outstanding. Steve Belichick needs to go elsewhere to prove his coaching chops which are substantial but lost in the aura of his father.
Apologies for the snip, but this brings up something that's been kicking around in my head for a bit: with Bill and Brady both gone, no replacement franchise QB (pending the outcome of Draft Day) and (potentially) a first-time head coach, how appealing is NE as a FA destination ahead of next season? Sure, if Mayo puts together a stronger-than-expected campaign next season we start looking like a good option in 2025, but in '24? Is Kraft going to have to seriously overpay to lure in top-shelf talent?
He's going to have to pay the most money, which is also how the Dynasty-era Patriots acquired high level FAs in their prime. They won't entice productive veterans near the end of their careers to come in for cheap as they once did, but the guys like Gilmore, Colvin and Adalius Thomas came in for big cash, and that's what they'll have to spend to get them now as well.
Unless they are quite old top shelf talent generally goes wherever the money is.
