Source: In addition to Valdez, the Red Sox have received Royals' Luis De La Rosa and Grant Gambrell as the other two players in the Andrew Benintendi trade
The Royals PTBNLs are pitchers.Interesting. Looks like a younger, Franchy type! Seems like decent value. Was hoping for pitching, personally.
In 2019, the Dominican Summer League Royals won the first Dominican League title in club history. One of the members of the group, pitcher Luis De La Rosa, was a top arm despite being the second-youngest player on the team at 16 years old. Logging the third-most innings on the team, De La Rosa posted a 2.33 ERA in 11 starts with 52 strikeouts and seven walks. His WHIP of 0.905 was the best among pitchers who threw over 30 innings and his 12.1 SO/9 was the highest of any starter on the team. In addition to his high strikeout numbers, opposing hitters only managed to slash .197/.233/.254 off of De La Rosa with a line drive percentage of 16.7% and no home runs.
De La Rosa signed with Kansas City back on July 2nd, 2018, at just 15 years old for $147,500.
Baseball America praised his “pitchability” for his lack of experience on the mound and young age.
“De la Rosa has an array of positive projection indicators, with some of that projection already starting to bear out,” Baseball America Senior Writer Ben Badler said last year. “A former shortstop who moved to the mound before signing, De La Rosa is a bouncy athlete who has grown two inches to 6-foot-2, 175 pounds with a fastball that has also grown since signing. He’s now reaching the low-90s, with loose, easy arm action and the projection for more velocity to come. For someone without much experience on the mound, De La Rosa has shown surprising pitchability, with a slider and an advanced changeup for his age.”
After his first three outings in his 2019 campaign, De La Rosa torched his opponents over his next nine appearances. In 31 innings, the right-hander allowed three runs on 19 hits (0.87 ERA) with 43 strikeouts and five walks. His best performance came against the DSL Athletics when he struck out seven over a career-high five perfect innings. During the final two months of the season, De La Rosa faced 106 batters. Of those batters, only two managed to record an extra-base hit.
Luis De La Rosa may not pop up on the Royals Top-30 prospect list for a few years, but there’s no question the young right-hander has made a name for himself in front of the organization. With his ability to throw in the low 90s with command and harness an advanced change-up as a 17-year-old, the potential is certainly there for De La Rosa. Whether he maximizes it or not will be something to keep an eye on moving forward.
Thanks for this. Sounds like a lottery ticket, which is more than I expected on the KC end of the deal.
https://www.royalsreview.com/2020/1/16/21066904/looking-at-the-best-pitches-among-royals-prospectsGrant Gambrell is a big righty (6’4″, 225 lbs) drafted out of Oregon State in 2019. His fastball isn’t overpowering, but reports say it moves with good sink, and he has a slider/changeup that grade out to at least average as well. He was hit hard in his pro debut to the tune of a 6.67 ERA in 27 innings, but there’s still upside here for a big league starter.
The top prospects are the ones that matter.Valdes went from 13 in a better rated system (Mets) to 29 in ours?
Overall, a decent - and maybe much better - haul although 10D's .351 obp would look real good leading off for the Sox right now
The last time we got a De La Rosa as a PTBNL, the Sox won the World Series the following season.The last time we got a De La Rosa as a PTBNL, it wasn't that great
We traded one away in November of 2003 too.The last time we got a De La Rosa as a PTBNL, the Sox won the World Series the following season.
The last time we got a De La Rosa as a PTBNL, the Sox won the World Series the following season.
I don't want to wait until next year to win. Although I will likely need a new hoodie by October 2022 to replace my WS Champs 2018 oneWe traded one away in November of 2003 too.
Agreed, nothing wrong with a serviceable bullpen piece either. It's hard not to look at this return for Benintendi with a fair degree of optimism."Low ceiling" of a bottom of rotation starter for Gambrell? You always need those.
We'll get you a Bruin's Stanley Cup champs one next monthI don't want to wait until next year to win. Although I will likely need a new hoodie by October 2022 to replace my WS Champs 2018 one
That's fine. Just means back to back titles.I don't want to wait until next year to win. Although I will likely need a new hoodie by October 2022 to replace my WS Champs 2018 one
Care to revisit this at the end of this season? At the end of the 2023 or 2024 season?Beni would sure look nice in the leadoff spot right now. Unless one of these lotto tickets hit we lost this trade.
I think you meant to text this to 37937.Beni would sure look nice in the leadoff spot right now. Unless one of these lotto tickets hit we lost this trade.
Welcome to pink. Yes, I'm that old.Beni would sure look nice in the leadoff spot right now. Unless one of these lotto tickets hit we lost this trade.
Two time GG center fielder would and a decent bat would help on multiple fronts. About $8 million remaining on this year's contract could be and issue. Missed time this year with a rib fracture, not sure how he's been since returning.Welcome to pink. Yes, I'm that old.
So I add value here: I have been saying since the first week of the season that the leadoff spot is a problem. Kike Hernandez is a useful player, but his OBP (this season or career) does not support the idea of batting him leadoff. This team desperately needs a .340+ OBP hitter to bat at the top of the lineup. Maybe Santana can be that guy, but I'm still beating the drum for bringing in Starling Marte and batting him 2nd behind Verdugo.
If we open ourselves to questions such as this, we also should ask other questions and place the trade in the context of the 2020 season to avoid the fallacy of using 20/20 hindsight to judge these things.Beni would sure look nice in the leadoff spot right now. Unless one of these lotto tickets hit we lost this trade.
Sorry, my Canadiens one will be coming firstWe'll get you a Bruin's Stanley Cup champs one next month
I think the inequity can be explained as the Sox liked Winckowski more than his ranking indicated. I say this because a) they took him right away instead of as a PTBNL, and b) something seems to have clicked for him based on his early results this year. Reasonable to infer that they saw something in him and thought they could level him up with a simple tweak or two.We’ll sure, if you’re going to take a well measured, rational look at the overall transaction…
I’m not exactly thrilled with this overall, mostly based on the seeming ranking inequity between Lee and what the Mets gave up, but he Sox we’re almost certainly looking for players who didn’t need to be in the 40-man, which probably limited the pool somewhat…
Well, sure, but there are probably overstock jerseys available from 1993...Sorry, my Canadiens one will be coming first
Right. To me Winckowski (and the $$) isn't being talked about enough. If you get two major league minimum wage guys who are contributors you can spend the 4-ish million in savings for another useful player. That's not nothing when you are up against the threshold. Margins are a thing now - even with big market teams that pro-Benintendi guys are disregarding. You can add a decent rental for that price. I'm happy Beni has found his bat, but his defense is not trending in the right direction.I think the inequity can be explained as the Sox liked Winckowski more than his ranking indicated. I say this because a) they took him right away instead of as a PTBNL, and b) something seems to have clicked for him based on his early results this year. Reasonable to infer that they saw something in him and thought they could level him up with a simple tweak or two.
Basically, for two years of Benintendi, the Sox got five players, four of whom have a ceiling where you could imagine them "winning" the trade all on their own (Gambrell, I think, has a lower ceiling and even if he reaches it I don't know that it's high enough to match Benintendi's value). There's definitely an outcome in play where Benintendi returns somewhat to form and we missed out on two years of a 2-WAR outfielder we could have used, but I'll put my money on at least one of [Cordero pulls it together and is a more dynamic player with an extra year of control, Winckowski develops into a 4th starter, Valdez becomes a slightly more productive version of Cordero with six years of control, LDLR was onto something in the DSL and is seen as a high-ceiling starter prospect this time next year].
Also (and this is really just a restatement of your last point) this is only a problem at all because our entire starting rotation is in the top-100 of the fWAR pitcher leaderboard, which was not at all the expectation when that trade was made.If we open ourselves to questions such as this, we also should ask other questions and place the trade in the context of the 2020 season to avoid the fallacy of using 20/20 hindsight to judge these things.
- At the end of 2020 season, when Benintendi was batting .103 with an OPS of .442, I am sure the Sox leadership asked "will he look nice in the lead off spot in 2021?"
- Given that his numbers overall had declined for two straight years, would Benintendi look nice in the lead off spot in the future?
- Since Bloom has made a priority out of improving the minor league talent pipeline, will the return for trading Benintendi prove greater than his contributions for the next 3-5 years?
- Shouldn't we, at SoSH, at least wait a bit to see whether any of these new players work out before casting final judgement?
- The Sox might also have asked, can we pick up a "Beni-substitute" from somewhere, someone who would make up for his projected production? And maybe we even save money on this replacement during a year when the Sox were maybe not expected to be a strong team?
Using the SoxProspects top-60 and not including the June draft (which added 10, 18 and 27), Bloom has added our number 2, 6, 17, 19, 21, 22, 24, 29, 30, and 41 by trade and Rule V drafts, and I'd imagine a few of the guys from this trade will slot in there somewhere in the back of the top 30, too. Beyond the top guys like Downs and Seabold, we've also really thickened out the system with pretty good prospects.Kiké is a hot streak away from matching Beni’s output, just as Renfroe has done since May. Combined with Duran later in the summer I think there is a pretty decent chance we get to a point where you tip your cap, move on, and look forward to the prospects developing regardless of how Beni is doing.
Since “missing out on” Graterol and swapping in Downs and Wong, Chaim has added a ton of interesting depth up and down the system mostly at the cost of rentals, players that wouldn’t re-sign anyway, and nothing (Whitlock, Arroyo, etc) and so many of his “little” moves have had the kind of impact that has me excited every time he adds a player.
I concede that I’m using outside rankings more than anyone in any other teams are, but given how much we knew the Mets liked Lee, and given their respective rankings we were looking for a higher rated player as the PTBNL.I think the inequity can be explained as the Sox liked Winckowski more than his ranking indicated. I say this because a) they took him right away instead of as a PTBNL, and b) something seems to have clicked for him based on his early results this year. Reasonable to infer that they saw something in him and thought they could level him up with a simple tweak or two.
I think the odds of any of the minor leaguers actually reaching a higher ceiling the Beni are pretty slim, given how far away they are. I think there’s a higher chance for Franchy, but I think you also have to allow for Beni putting up a much more valuable season breakout/ return to form. Overall this is still a reasonable return and we really should be looking at the move in aggregate from how Bloom has been adding talent in what I think most of us expected to be a less competitive season.Basically, for two years of Benintendi, the Sox got five players, four of whom have a ceiling where you could imagine them "winning" the trade all on their own (Gambrell, I think, has a lower ceiling and even if he reaches it I don't know that it's high enough to match Benintendi's value). There's definitely an outcome in play where Benintendi returns somewhat to form and we missed out on two years of a 2-WAR outfielder we could have used, but I'll put my money on at least one of [Cordero pulls it together and is a more dynamic player with an extra year of control, Winckowski develops into a 4th starter, Valdez becomes a slightly more productive version of Cordero with six years of control, LDLR was onto something in the DSL and is seen as a high-ceiling starter prospect this time next year].
Even now, as we're talking wistfully about Benintendi, he's a slightly above league-average platoon LF. That he would "look good" on the Sox at this moment is really beside the point.I concede that I’m using outside rankings more than anyone in any other teams are, but given how much we knew the Mets liked Lee, and given their respective rankings we were looking for a higher rated player as the PTBNL.
I think the odds of any of the minor leaguers actually reaching a higher ceiling the Beni are pretty slim, given how far away they are. I think there’s a higher chance for Franchy, but I think you also have to allow for Beni putting up a much more valuable season breakout/ return to form. Overall this is still a reasonable return and we really should be looking at the move in aggregate from how Bloom has been adding talent in what I think most of us expected to be a less competitive season.
Let’s be clear, I’m not talking wistfully about Benni, I was hoping for a stronger return for Lee.Even now, as we're talking wistfully about Benintendi, he's a slightly above league-average platoon LF. That he would "look good" on the Sox at this moment is really beside the point.
Yeah, people on this thread were talking about the value of Lee and how the PTBNL were going to be good as a result of him being such a valuable prospect, but the bloom must have been off that rose, because these PTBNL are just like all the past PTBNL, guys with a little something interesting about them but not close to top prospects. Of course it's always good to get more prospects in the system, so I'm not complaining.Let’s be clear, I’m not talking wistfully about Benni, I was hoping for a stronger return for Lee.
I also caught a scouting report about Lee that came down to “platoon OFer”, so it’s probably safe to say that even if the Mets were high on him, they weren’t high enough to be looking to swap their higher rated prospects.
Which basically means he is a classic quadruple-A guy (unless his start in Boston this year was just bad luck, about which I have my doubts). Which is ok except that he is not a very good fielder and realistically can only play LF or DH, so the Sox are always going to prefer having a Santana/Arroyo type on the 26-man unless Cordero is hitting so well that they basically have no choice but to have him on the ML roster.Combined across AAA/MLB, Cordero is now hitting .272/.344/.481 in 181 PA with 18bb/54k.
In 17 AAA games Cordero has
4 games where he got on base at least 4 times
4 games with 3 hits
12 games he got on base at least twice
9 games with 2 hits
3 games with no hits
1 game where he failed to reach base at all
To see the 2 lines right next to each other:
Boston 34 games, 102 PA, 17 hits, 6 doubles, 0 triple, 1 HR, 6bb/37k. .178/.228/.274. 36.3% K rate, 5.9% BB rate
Woosox 17 games, 79 PA, 27 hits, 8 doubles, 1 triple, 5 HR, 12bb/17k. .403/.494/.776. 21.5% K rate, 15.2% BB rate
His OBP in AAA is almost equal to his OPS in the Majors (.494 to .501). Ridiculous.