The Celtics Offseason

mcpickl

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So does the draft pick penalty effectively devalue swaps in trades since you can’t even really hope for the complete blowup/injury season to sneak the swap into the lottery?
.

You won't be able to swap it. Once you hit that second apron, that pick 7 years out becomes frozen. Can't make any trades involving it. It doesn't become unfrozen until you dip out of the second apron twice inside the next four years.
 

nighthob

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Moving into prediction mode, as opposed to recommendation mode, I think the Cs end up supermaxing JB, but hold firm on no 5th year player option. That gives them 2023-24 at a fine tax number, they run it back with a contender, and still retain the ability to move Brown for a haul in summer of 2024 if things are looking bad roster/cap-wise. They'd be dealing an all-NBA player with 5 years of contract certainty, and somebody is going to go for that. The obvious candidate would be Cleveland in a Garland deal, if the Cavs thought Mitchell was walking otherwise in summer 2025.
Still would much rather have Mobley than the smurfy G.
 

Auger34

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Not loving the idea of any shrimpy guards when you have Point Tatum.

More athletic WINGZ please.

get Sean Marks on the line
I think Brooklyn is the most likely option as well. Bridges, Royce, and a pick for Jaylen makes a lot of sense

Cleveland for Mobley would be great but I don’t see them giving up on him yet and if they did, I imagine it would be because his offensive game hasn’t improved as much as people expect.
 

lovegtm

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What is the best current source on the second apron new CBA? I was under the impression that

- you can only take back 110% in salary
- you can only take back < 100% if you are receiving a player who makes more than multiple aggregated players

However, I was under the impression that you can aggregate (for example) a $10M and $15M contract to take back a $22M one.

Would appreciate sources, since it's VERY possible that I am wrong; there was a lot of conflicting info in the post-negotiation reports.
Bumping, because I'd love the most current info on this.
 

lovegtm

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benhogan

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Thanks, but unfortunately I need more detail. I still can't source anything clearly stating that you can't aggregate multiple players if you take back less money.

Very happy to see if I'm wrong, since it's an extremely important team-building detail.
Smith says the Celtics wouldn't have been able to do Brogdon deal under the new rules (or even Muscala) but imagine you could send a $10MM player + $15MM player for a $22MM player.
 

lovegtm

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Smith says the Celtics wouldn't have been able to do Brogdon deal under the new rules (or even Muscala) but imagine you could send a $10MM player + $15MM player for a $22MM player.
Yeah, I think everyone has been clear on Brogdon and Muscala not being doable, but being able aggregate (eg) Grant and TL for a $25M guy would be really useful down the line, so trying to nail that one down, since there's conflicting info in this thread.

Everything I've seen suggests that you CAN do 10+15 for 22.
 

mcpickl

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Smith says the Celtics wouldn't have been able to do Brogdon deal under the new rules (or even Muscala) but imagine you could send a $10MM player + $15MM player for a $22MM player.
Under the new rules if you're over the second apron, you could not.

Wouldn't be allowed to aggregate salaries.
 

Cellar-Door

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Aug 1, 2006
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Thanks, but unfortunately I need more detail. I still can't source anything clearly stating that you can't aggregate multiple players if you take back less money.

Very happy to see if I'm wrong, since it's an extremely important team-building detail.
Bobby Marks mentioned it in the May 22nd edition of the Lowe Post. It's one of the things that comes in 2024-25
 

Pablo's TB Lover

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I go into this thread and just see "Blah blah blah" and think eh, I'll go back and read this in several weeks after the parade in Boston.
 

benhogan

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Under the new rules if you're over the second apron, you could not.

Wouldn't be allowed to aggregate salaries.
Ouch, that is brutal

I was searching around for New CBA information and found this nugget which made me laugh

"The Rob Pelinka Rule."
The NBA has a designated structure in place for paying first-round picks. That is the rookie scale, and it creates a cap exception that allows teams to sign their first-round selections regardless of how much cap space they do or do not have. No such exception previously existed for second-round picks. Teams either had to dip into their mid-level exception to sign them, or they had to give them minimum-salary deals.

This is where Pelinka comes in. Ever since he took over the Lakers, they have had a maddening tendency to sign their rookies to two-year minimum deals when using a small portion of the mid-level exception would have allowed him to sign them to longer contracts. This approach allowed Talen Horton-Tucker to reach restricted free agency after only his second season, and the resulting expenditure may have cost the Lakers Alex Caruso. Pelinka seemingly failed to learn from that mistake, because in that same offseason, he signed Austin Reaves to a two-year minimum deal instead of a mid-level contract. Now Reaves is headed for a free-agent payday, and lest you believe he is the last Laker on that timeline, promising rookie Max Christie is also bound for restricted free agency after his second season. Well, the NBA has officially saved the Lakers from themselves. There will now be a designated cap exception for second-round picks. Reaves wouldn't fall under this umbrella as an undrafted free agent, but Horton-Tucker and Christie would have, and all future second-round picks will.
 

lovegtm

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Bobby Marks mentioned it in the May 22nd edition of the Lowe Post. It's one of the things that comes in 2024-25
Thanks, I just listened: it's at the 17:10 mark, for those interested.

Marks' phrasing was VERY ambiguous. He simply said "can't aggregate salaries." If he means "can't aggregate salaries even with non-min players, and even taking back less money", that would go against all reporting I've seen to this point.

I'm not saying you're wrong; you might well be right. But it's a really really critical team building detail, and I'm starting to get annoyed that I can't find anything clearer, because it affects my analysis of how the Celtics will handle the Brown situation over the next years pretty significantly.
 

Cellar-Door

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Thanks, I just listened: it's at the 17:10 mark, for those interested.

Marks' phrasing was VERY ambiguous. He simply said "can't aggregate salaries." If he means "can't aggregate salaries even with non-min players, and even taking back less money", that would go against all reporting I've seen to this point.

I'm not saying you're wrong; you might well be right. But it's a really really critical team building detail, and I'm starting to get annoyed that I can't find anything clearer, because it affects my analysis of how the Celtics will handle the Brown situation over the next years pretty significantly.
The full text hasn't been released is why it's so hard to nail down exact details
 

lovegtm

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The full text hasn't been released is why it's so hard to nail down exact details
Interesting, I'll be on the lookout for that specific text once it's known. I think most other provisions are withstandable for the Cs, but that one would be rough.
 

benhogan

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Thanks, I just listened: it's at the 17:10 mark, for those interested.

Marks' phrasing was VERY ambiguous. He simply said "can't aggregate salaries." If he means "can't aggregate salaries even with non-min players, and even taking back less money", that would go against all reporting I've seen to this point.

I'm not saying you're wrong; you might well be right. But it's a really really critical team building detail, and I'm starting to get annoyed that I can't find anything clearer, because it affects my analysis of how the Celtics will handle the Brown situation over the next years pretty significantly.
@nighthob

How are you interpreting the new CBA in regards to "aggregating salaries" past the 2nd Apron/Hard Cap?
I guess we shouldn't be shocked either way.

You usually have a good read on CAP tea leaves
 

mcpickl

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Pxer

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I think there's more incentive to match a GW offer sheet. They won't be able to replace his talent sufficiently once they hit the top apron, which is inevitable.
 

Euclis20

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I can't imagine Grant has increased or highlighted his value so far in the postseason. 5 DNPs in 19 games, that's likely not a guy that Boston is about to want to spend $15-$20M annually on, especially because we know he can't fill this team's biggest need going forward (center). We kind of knew that might be the case with the Giannis/Bucks matchup off the table, and Miami isn't exactly a great fit either, given that they typically run out just the one big.
 

Pxer

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I can't imagine Grant has increased or highlighted his value so far in the postseason. 5 DNPs in 19 games, that's likely not a guy that Boston is about to want to spend $15-$20M annually on, especially because we know he can't fill this team's biggest need going forward (center). We kind of knew that might be the case with the Giannis/Bucks matchup off the table, and Miami isn't exactly a great fit either, given that they typically run out just the one big.
The alternative is someone on the MLE, and any marginal upgrades Brad can find via trade right? How do you find someone better than Grant there? He has rotational value in the playoffs. You can't say the same for most guys the Cs could otherwise acquire.
 

PedroKsBambino

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I don’t think they let grant walk in order to avoid second apron - unless it’s a financial thing. Which I doubt.

Yes, you lose flexibility…but he’s a proven asset. All those things—-aggregating salaries, signing buy out guys, etc.—-are less certain given where they are roster-wise
 

nighthob

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Miami isn't exactly a great fit either, given that they typically run out just the one big.
Williams isn’t a real big. I’m hoping that Miami is interested and willing to deal, because I suspect that Boston has little interest in blowing past the second apron line quite yet.
 

Euclis20

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Williams isn’t a real big. I’m hoping that Miami is interested and willing to deal, because I suspect that Boston has little interest in blowing past the second apron line quite yet.
He’s not, but a decent part of his value is that he can play credible defense against legit bigs. He hasn't been able to showcase it much in these playoffs.
 

lexrageorge

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Williams isn’t a real big. I’m hoping that Miami is interested and willing to deal, because I suspect that Boston has little interest in blowing past the second apron line quite yet.
Yeah, flexibility to add some real shooters to the roster is going to be paramount. Stevens is going to have his work cut out for him.
 

nighthob

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I guess it’s time to get this discussion going in earnest again as it looks like time’s run out on the Celtics.
 

JM3

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Currently happy to move anyone who isn't Tatum/Timelord/White.
 

JCizzle

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Someone please post a somewhat realistic JB trade that makes me excited for next year and/or the future.
 

lexrageorge

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I guess it’s time to get this discussion going in earnest again as it looks like time’s run out on the Celtics.
As I noted in the game thread, Wyc is not going to open the wallet just to win conference finalist banners. This core hasn't proven that its ceiling is a championship, and it's time to reject the tired "they just need more time" argument. And championship windows can slam shut real fast in the NBA.

Time to say a "thanks for the memories JB" and retool around Tatum.
 

jsinger121

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Someone please post a somewhat realistic JB trade that makes me excited for next year and/or the future.
If Portland is serious about putting a second star around Lillard maybe Boston could get Simons, pick 3 and Little (for salary purposes) for Jaylen Brown.
 

Eddie Jurak

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I don't think it can be run back, not after that embarrassment.

If there is a team out there that thinks Brown is a #1 star, I think he has to be moved.
 

Pablo's TB Lover

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If you felt confident that you could get Scoot at #3, I think you'd have to think seriously about it.
In the Bill Simmons and Ryen Russillo pod, they seemed convinced that Charlotte CAN'T be that stupid that they would pass on Scoot at #2, right?! Although they may bluff to keep the asset value high.
 

blueline

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The narrative that Mazzulla "did enough" to return as head coach is infuriating. They went down 3-0 to the 8th seed and lost by 19 at home in game 7 to the 8th seed. It's unacceptable.
 

Patriot_Reign

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Any Brown trade would seriously downgrade the team the next couple years if all you get back is spare parts and a draft pick. You sign Brown and run it back with him and Tatum. Everybody else on the team is on the table.
He's not worth a supermax deal.
 

Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat

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Any Brown trade would seriously downgrade the team the next couple years if all you get back is spare parts and a draft pick. You sign Brown and run it back with him and Tatum. Everybody else on the team is on the table.
There is no way in hell that DWhite should be on the table. Plenty of times he looked like the second best player on this team and definitely the best point guard.
 

Jimy Hendrix

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The narrative that Mazzulla "did enough" to return as head coach is infuriating. They went down 3-0 to the 8th seed and lost by 19 at home in game 7 to the 8th seed. It's unacceptable.
He had almost no preseason and half a staff. I don’t think he was great, but there’s so much going on there that I am honestly willing to go along with whatever the Celtics front office sees fit to do given all the weird details.
 

djbayko

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I don't think it can be run back, not after that embarrassment.

If there is a team out there that thinks Brown is a #1 star, I think he has to be moved.
Meh. I don't think it's that big of an embarrassment. I know that you even think most Celtics wins are embarrassing though ;) They battled back from 0-3 and lost their superstar player on the first play of the game. Brown should probably be embarrassed for himself, but that's about it.

Gotta fix the coaching for sure. Something's not right there.