That'd be up the butt, Bob - Kraft Charged with Soliciting.

Rovin Romine

Johnny Rico
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
9,285
Miami (oh, Miami!)
What? That makes no sense.
As a general thread FYI, the purpose of a misdemeanor arraignment (in FL) is to inform the defendant of the charges against them and to enter the defendant's plea into the record. An attorney can stand in.

As for what it looks like in real life, usually, the court will just call one case after another off the list of cases that are going to be heard that day. That list is informally called a "calendar" of cases, although some places might call it a daily docket of cases. When called, the parties, or their attorneys go to the podiums. The state announces on the record what charges they are filing, or if they have decided to decline prosecution, or if they're binding up the charges to a felony, or any other procedural resolution (transfer to Juvie, transfer to special prosecutor.) The defense will often waive the formal reading of the charges. (In fact, I can only recall twice that I insisted the charges be read into the record.)

If the defendant is unrepresented when called, the court inquires as to whether counsel should be appointed (and counsel will be if the defendant is indigent and the state is seeking jail time in the case). The case is passed to later on the calendar. After the appointment an attorney, the case is passed to later on the calendar. When called again (hopefully after enough time for a quick consultation) the defendant is asked to enter a plea, which is traditionally Not Guilty. If a defendant is pro se, or does not qualify for the public defender, the court routinely just enters a NG plea on their behalf. Often the just-appointed attorney will have to enter a NG plea as their client is whisper-demanding, Wait, what are you doing? What's going on? at their elbow. You also demand discovery (the state usually has something in the file to give you), and demand a trial by jury.

The state will often have a plea offer that they will convey to the defense for the first time. If there's a chance the defendant will take the offer, the court is told that an offer needs to be conveyed and the case is (again) passed to be recalled later on the calendar. But, obviously it's best practice to simply do due diligence and review the case before your client takes any deal. So some judges will just set a trial date regardless.

The setting of a future trial date usually ends the arraignment. The trial date is more of a placeholder than anything - many FL county courts will set 30 cases for trial on the same day, knowing they can try one, maybe two cases across the whole week. In the meantime, some of those cases will plea out (the attorneys just calendar them to take the plea after the arrangement calendar.) Other cases will need continuances beyond the trial date. Some cases will be subject to speedy trial demands, and some won't. Usually a courtroom will end up with 0-7 cases that could be tried on any given trial day. Some of those resolve, some get continued for different reasons, and some actually get tried. Usually, it's the older cases, cases with speedy trial issues, or cases with limited witness availability that get tried first.

So, no. Kraft does not have to show.

And no, whatever his trial date is set for very likely won't be the actual trial date, whether he wants to plea or try it.
 

Van Everyman

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2009
17,257
Newton
Thanks, RR – the article from CBS Boston was poorly written but the tweet that I posted with the quote from Kraft’s lawyer helped clarify. That all makes sense. I just would’ve expected the author of the piece to have a better idea that the big all caps “THE DEFENDANT MUST SHOW IN PERSON” is actually just pro-forma stuff than, say, me. But appreciate the explanation.
 

Rovin Romine

Johnny Rico
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
9,285
Miami (oh, Miami!)
Not casting any stones, but whenever I run into legal latin, I am reminded of a professor who would routinely add, And there's some latin name for that, go look it up on your own time and memorize it if you want to impress the gullible. Always makes me smile.
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
12,678
Not casting any stones, but whenever I run into legal latin, I am reminded of a professor who would routinely add, And there's some latin name for that, go look it up on your own time and memorize it if you want to impress the gullible. Always makes me smile.
A professor once told us that "gullible" was not in the dictionary.
 

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
2,713
around the way
Not casting any stones, but whenever I run into legal latin, I am reminded of a professor who would routinely add, And there's some latin name for that, go look it up on your own time and memorize it if you want to impress the gullible. Always makes me smile.
They say the same thing in seminary.
 

simplyeric

aggressively nonsensical
SoSH Member
Feb 14, 2006
12,147
NYC
Not casting any stones, but whenever I run into legal latin, I am reminded of a professor who would routinely add, And there's some latin name for that, go look it up on your own time and memorize it if you want to impress the gullible. Always makes me smile.
I thought that’s what Marciano always said the first time a new girlfriend of his unzipped his pants.
 

Myt1

the FRESH maker
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Mar 13, 2006
27,385
South Boston
Not casting any stones, but whenever I run into legal latin, I am reminded of a professor who would routinely add, And there's some latin name for that, go look it up on your own time and memorize it if you want to impress the gullible. Always makes me smile.
I always stuck up my nose when they’d pronounce shit with Church Latin. We ain’t chanting, here.
 

simplyeric

aggressively nonsensical
SoSH Member
Feb 14, 2006
12,147
NYC
Who introduced who?
Remember when there was "some other big name" associated with this?
WTF?
 

djbayko

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
8,649
Waltham, MA
My guess is it’s the other way around. Kraft gifted the woman who hugs him and takes care of his Johnson on a daily basis tickets to watch the SB at Trump’s club.

I’m not even sure if I’d want it to be the way you’re implying. After Stormy, a consensual hand job makes no difference to Trump’s legacy. It only serves to keep the Patriots in the news longer.
 

Ed Hillel

Wants to be startin somethin
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2007
21,518
Here
Assuming this happened, this makes what Kraft did way way worse, because he very likely knew it was a trafficking operation. He needs to give the team up now, if so.

Any other president would also...nevermind.
 
Last edited:

InsideTheParker

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
24,462
Pioneer Valley
Aaaand.... OF COURSE there's a Trump connection to this whole thing. Because we do indeed live in the strangest fucking timeline:

https://t.co/CqsNwdNRqB
Love this:
Before the 2016 general election, Yang offered no evidence of political engagement. She hadn’t voted in 10 years, records showed. But she has now become a fixture at Republican political events up and down the East Coast. Her Facebook is covered in photos of herself standing with President Trump, his two sons, Eric and Donald Jr., Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis, Sen. Rick Scott, Sarah Palin, the president’s campaign manager and an assortment of other high-level Republican operators she has met at charity events, political fundraisers and galas, many of which require hefty donations to attend. She sometimes carries a rhinestone encrusted MAGA clutch purse.
 

simplyeric

aggressively nonsensical
SoSH Member
Feb 14, 2006
12,147
NYC
My guess is it’s the other way around. Kraft gifted the woman who hugs him and takes care of his Johnson on a daily basis tickets to watch the SB at Trump’s club.

I’m not even sure if I’d want it to be the way you’re implying. After Stormy, a consensual hand job makes no difference to Trump’s legacy. It only serves to keep the Patriots in the news longer.
If this turns out to actually involve trafficking (where does that stand now?) and Trump is also caught up in that, that could be somewhat different for Trump.
(no, not his "base". His base is sunk cost)
 

djbayko

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
8,649
Waltham, MA
If this turns out to actually involve trafficking (where does that stand now?) and Trump is also caught up in that, that could be somewhat different for Trump.
(no, not his "base". His base is sunk cost)
Yeah, I just don’t put much stock in the trafficking claim, at least for this ownership, given the evidence we’ve seen so far. Every prostitution sting these days is labeled “trafficking” because it gets funding, headlines, and politicians re-elected.

Edit: I am aware that they started this investigation after they saw signs of people living there. But those signs are also possibly evidence of people who work long hours and sometimes have long periods between customers.
 
Last edited:

Ed Hillel

Wants to be startin somethin
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2007
21,518
Here
No. No it doesn't mean that at all.
If that’s what happened, it better. Unless you’re cool with human trafficking or believe it’s a coincidence Kraft ended up at the same establishment that woman owns.

I mean, I guess it’s possible it’s a coincidence...though one possibility is Trump knew it was trafficking and Kraft didn’t I guess. That would be...good?

If not, just give ownership to Jonathan.
 

Lose Remerswaal

Leaves after the 8th inning
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
If that’s what happened, it better. Unless you’re cool with human trafficking or believe it’s a coincidence Kraft ended up at the same establishment that woman owns.

I mean, I guess it’s possible it’s a coincidence...though one possibility is Trump knew it was trafficking and Kraft didn’t I guess. That would be...good?

If not, just give ownership to Jonathan.
I am not going to dignify your first comment with a reply.

And I doubt Trump cares or told Kraft that there was trafficking. Just that it was a good place to go to get your rocks off.
 

LoweTek

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
May 30, 2005
1,457
Central Florida
The spa in which Kraft got his services has not been implicated, nor charged, with any trafficking. The only trafficking charge coming out of this investigation is for an entirely unrelated spa and evidence is weak at best.

Any implication Kraft had any connection to trafficking or continued media references such as "part of a trafficking operation," are sensationalism at best, poor 'journalism' at worst.
 

ifmanis5

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 29, 2007
34,149
Rotten Apple
Yang had been peddling access to Trump: https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2019/03/a-florida-massage-parlor-owner-has-been-selling-chinese-execs-access-to-trump-at-mar-a-lago/

On a page displaying a photo of Mar-a-Lago, Yang’s company says its “activities for clients” have included providing them “the opportunity to interact with the president, the [American] Minister of Commerce and other political figures.” The company boasts it has “arranged taking photos with the President” and suggests it can set up a “White House and Capitol Hill Dinner.”
 

Ed Hillel

Wants to be startin somethin
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2007
21,518
Here
OXFORD – A woman who had managed a prostitution house on Fairlawn Avenue under the guise of a massage parlor several years ago was sentenced in 2013 in Worcester Superior Court to 30 days in jail plus three years of probation for her crimes.

Apparently undeterred, Lan Yun Ma, now 49, appears to have picked up and moved her business model more than 1,300 miles south to Vero Beach, Florida, where she has been charged as part of a sting operation that led to charges against Patriots owner Robert Kraft, allegedly one of Ms. Ma’s customers.
A 2011-12 investigation of her massage parlor in Oxford by state and local police concluded that she had forced women into sexual servitude.
https://www.telegram.com/news/20190226/woman-who-ran-oxford-massage-parlor-arrested-in-2012-now-involved-in-kraft-florida-scandal

30 days in jail WTF!?
 
Last edited:

Mooch

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
1,292

Stuffy McInnis

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Sep 4, 2001
797
Stoughton
Florida Prosecutors Offer to Drop Charges Against Patriots Owner Robert Kraft

The proposed deal, however, calls for Kraft to admit he would have been found guilty at trial

https://www.wsj.com/articles/florida-prosecutors-offer-to-drop-charges-against-patriots-owner-robert-kraft-11553014972
Details from behind the paywall:

The proposed deferred prosecution agreement calls for completion of an education course about prostitution, completion of 100 hours of community service, screening for sexually transmitted diseases and payment of some court costs.

But in an unusual provision, the agreement also calls for the defendants to review the evidence in the case and agree that, if it were to go to trial, the state would be able to prove their guilt, this person said. It isn’t clear whether Mr. Kraft and others would accept such a condition. When the charges were announced, a spokesman for Mr. Kraft denied he engaged in illegal activity.​
 

snowmanny

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Dec 8, 2005
10,130
What if he pays the fine and does the community service but the prosecution says he would have been found not guilty?
 

InstaFace

MDLzera
Sep 27, 2016
7,590
Forget the fine or the nolo plea, I want to see Robert Kraft out on a highway median, picking up trash.
 

PedroKsBambino

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 17, 2003
21,627
Really like to hear Rovin Romine's take on how common this type of offer is---as I read the article it is not quite nolo or Alford. What would be the reason for prosecution to offer this specific deal at this point?
 

PaulinMyrBch

Don't touch his dog food
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 10, 2003
8,287
MYRTLE BEACH!!!!
Really like to hear Rovin Romine's take on how common this type of offer is---as I read the article it is not quite nolo or Alford. What would be the reason for prosecution to offer this specific deal at this point?
Sounds like BS condition of entering the diversion program. If you have to admit guilt then you flunk out of the program, can they use that admission on the reinstated prosecution of the charge? Been a while for me in that game, so I'm curious to hear what RR has to say as well. Back in the day, diversion programs (small scale stuff) was a money/fine grab by the city/county/etc.