What could possibly justify pitching to Nelson Cruz with first base open and the winning run on second base in the bottom of the 9th?
Yeah really .. Isn't that what the Bench Coach AKA Consiglieri is for ? "Gee skip, Cruz has gone all Roy Hobbs on the league this year. We have a base open and a favourable matchup on the next guy. Maybe we should walk him?"75cent bleacher seat said:Lose, next time you leave after the 8th take Farrell with you, please!
edit...I have to wonder if anyone questioned him (during the game) about his decision.
So .. Basically he is saying he is using regency bias (chasing the off speed stuff) and bogus stats 1-8) to justify the decision. But I think this is merely reinforcing the real reason. He trusts Tazawa here and doesn't trust Layne. But he can't say that without undermining Layne.We had a base open,'' said Farrell. "I saw Cruz's first three at-bats and he was chasing some off-speed below the zone. He was 1-for-8 against Taz, but it didn't work out. That's a terrible decision on my part. We had it set up. Walk him, take the bat out of his hands and then we've got a left-on-left with (lefthander Tommy) Layne and (Kyle) Seager
He obviously is? I don't think he is. Francona, Melvin, Showalter, Girardi, Bochy, Maddon, Matheny I would call bright. It's very hard to say or measure of course, but listening to the guy talk, I'd say Farrell is maybe average intelligence for a sports manager/coach. It's like wetting your finger and holding it up in the wind, or a golfer throwing some grass up in the air to check wind direction, and we'll never get any kind of IQ test for all the managers. Still, he's not bright.BCsMightyJoeYoung said:Well .. Farrell himself says it was a dumb decision.
The 1-8 thing was obviously only part of the decision making process. But this is something that has bothered me ever since I first read about Earl Weaver keeping match up stats on punch cards. Obviously John Farrell is a bright guy. But he has to realize that , unless the 1-8 was seven strikeouts and a twenty foot swinging bunt and they all happened this year - it meant absolutely nothing. So why do the stats guys put meaningless crap in the scouting reports? Wouldn't it be better to write in "No matchup information available" ? All it does is put the onus on the Manager to understand the reliability of the numbers - which he probably does in a vacuum but in game defining moment doesn't completely dismiss the stat.
Tito passed the "sound test" (we have an "eye test", so why not a sound test). Farrell just doesn't give great confidence to me when I hear him talk.foulkehampshire said:Tito made quite a few of questionable management decisions (especially with bullpen, SP). I don't see Farrell being any better or worse than Tito (maybe with base-running) - I think the leash is just shorter (with SOSH) because the FO has been unable to surround Farrell with the kind of talent that Tito was blessed to have on the roster from 2004-2011.
If Seager hits a walk-off instead of Cruz half this board would be quoting the Tazawa-Cruz matchup record as reasoning for Farrell to pitch to him.
Farrell MAY have been wrong; however, it was Tarawa's job to throw tempting pitches outside the strike zone, even imagining that the probable result would be a walk. Tazawa missed badly. Layne vs. Seager is probably not a much better matchup than Tazawa vs. Cruz. I'm a strong Junichi fan, but this loss was on him.Kilgore A. Trout said:Farrell is just not a good in game manager. Last night was just the most recent example of bad managing from him. But like I said in the gamethread, much like the D-Backs were stuck with Brenly for a few years after he won in '01, the Sox are probably stuck with Farrell for a while because he won in '13. How much that championship is because he was at the helm and how much its that he happened to be there when it happened, who can tell. Personally I would love for them to get some new blood in there, but I know it won't happen.
Al Zarilla said:He obviously is? I don't think he is. Francona, Melvin, Showalter, Girardi, Bochy, Maddon, Matheny I would call bright. It's very hard to say or measure of course, but listening to the guy talk, I'd say Farrell is maybe average intelligence for a sports manager/coach. It's like wetting your finger and holding it up in the wind, or a golfer throwing some grass up in the air to check wind direction, and we'll never get any kind of IQ test for all the managers. Still, he's not bright.
Pitching to Cruz at all was a mistake. Taz didn't execute, but he shouldn't have been in the game to start. Layne against a lefty, even one like Seager who has hurt the Sox in the past is still the right move. And there is no getting around it. And last night Farrell's screw up cost his team the game. That doesn't happen every time he does something stupid (which is the real problem with him- he doesnt manage well regardless of the outcome), but last night it did.mfried said:Farrell MAY have been wrong; however, it was Tarawa's job to throw tempting pitches outside the strike zone, even imagining that the probable result would be a walk. Tazawa missed badly. Layne vs. Seager is probably not a much better matchup than Tazawa vs. Cruz. I'm a strong Junichi fan, but this loss was on him.
You're nuts.mfried said:Farrell MAY have been wrong; however, it was Tarawa's job to throw tempting pitches outside the strike zone, even imagining that the probable result would be a walk. Tazawa missed badly. Layne vs. Seager is probably not a much better matchup than Tazawa vs. Cruz. I'm a strong Junichi fan, but this loss was on him.
I agree it was an egregious error, and Farrell was wise to own up to it. But saying "it cost the game" is an exaggeration. On the road, tied 1-1 in the bottom of the ninth, with a man on second, the Sox probability of winning that game was 40%, so he cost the team 2/5ths of a game. And I don't mean to quibble, it's just that I hear some fans (not you) count up the "losses" by manager during the season, and it way overstates the case, and the value of a manager's game decisions.Kilgore A. Trout said:Pitching to Cruz at all was a mistake. Taz didn't execute, but he shouldn't have been in the game to start. Layne against a lefty, even one like Seager who has hurt the Sox in the past is still the right move. And there is no getting around it. And last night Farrell's screw up cost his team the game. That doesn't happen every time he does something stupid (which is the real problem with him- he doesnt manage well regardless of the outcome), but last night it did.
Savin Hillbilly said:
I don't really understand how anyone who has listened to both Terry Francona and John Farrell give interviews can claim that Tito is brighter than Farrell. Tito's no dummy, but Farrell has a much more subtle and articulate mind. He might be too smart for the job, if anything; I think some of his bad decisions are attributable to overthinking (and last night's might be a good example). One of Tito's strengths was that he was never afraid to do the obvious thing.
MyDaughterLovesTomGordon said:You're nuts.
Cruz is a .350 hitter with 15 bombs. .400 OBP. Maybe the best hitter in the AL right now. Seager is sub .300 OBP against lefties and Layne is sub .250 OBP against lefties.
foulkehampshire said:If Seager hits a walk-off instead of Cruz half this board would be quoting the Tazawa-Cruz matchup record as reasoning for Farrell to pitch to him.
CTSOX said:
You're insane, the decision to pitch to Cruz was Grady-esque. Id be laughing my ass off if an opposing team pitched to Ortiz in that situation.
And the manager has no control about that, not in motivating his players, getting them to focus more in the field, setting lineups, or otherwise putting his men in a position to succeed?benhogan said:When the offense scores 1 run, its real tough for the manager to look clever.
He's walking on egg shells the entire game.
By this logic he should get a ton of credit for 2013, right?Kilgore A. Trout said:And the manager has no control about that, not in motivating his players, getting them to focus more in the field, setting lineups, or otherwise putting his men in a position to succeed?
There has been a lot of underperformance from the team the last two years. I would be interested in seeing how Sox underperformance compares against the rest of the league.
Yes.jimv said:By this logic he should get a ton of credit for 2013, right?
But it doesn't fit the narrativeKilgore A. Trout said:Farrell is just not a good in game manager. Last night was just the most recent example of bad managing from him. But like I said in the gamethread, much like the D-Backs were stuck with Brenly for a few years after he won in '01, the Sox are probably stuck with Farrell for a while because he won in '13. How much that championship is because he was at the helm and how much its that he happened to be there when it happened, who can tell. Personally I would love for them to get some new blood in there, but I know it won't happen.
And he does. But if you give him that credit, he also has to take responsibility for how badly last year and this year so far have gone.jimv said:By this logic he should get a ton of credit for 2013, right?
So he went from being the kind of manager who gets his team to over perform in 2013 to the kind that holds the players back just a year later? That makes absolutely no sense.Kilgore A. Trout said:And he does. But if you give him that credit, he also has to take responsibility for how badly last year and this year so far have gone.
foulkehampshire said:
Where did I defend the decision, exactly? I think it was terrible, due to Tarawa's high leverage issues and the matchup with Cruz.
Any outcome that inning that ended up in a walk-off win for the Mariners would have ended up being scrutinized. Perhaps even rightly-so, considering the season to date.
Well what's the alternative? He gets all the credit for 2013, but everything that's happened since has nothing to do with him? Or vice versa?Snodgrass'Muff said:So he went from being the kind of manager who gets his team to over perform in 2013 to the kind that holds the players back just a year later? That makes absolutely no sense.
Neither does pitching to Cruz with two out and first base open. It's jaw dropping stupidity. It's enough to get the attention of the players.Snodgrass'Muff said:So he went from being the kind of manager who gets his team to over perform in 2013 to the kind that holds the players back just a year later? That makes absolutely no sense.
geoduck no quahog said:This is the way I recall watching that at bat:
- OK, they'll walk Cruz and let Tazawa pitch to Seager, set up a force at all the bases. I wonder what Tazawa's record is against a LHH like Seager?