Jon Heyman @JonHeymanCBS 38s38 seconds ago
according to @ElCaribeRD nelson cruz going to mariners 57M, 4 yrs. hat tip @Enrique_Rojas1
according to @ElCaribeRD nelson cruz going to mariners 57M, 4 yrs. hat tip @Enrique_Rojas1
Mariners sign Nelson Cruz
- Thread starter Corsi
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RIrooter09 said:
moondog80 said:
Perhaps still in, but probably not in a position where they'll give up the best package. This makes acquiring someone like Cespedes (or Upton or Kemp for that matter) a lot less urgent for them.
I look at him and just see Sammy Sosa circa Orioles/Rangers for the last two years of the deal. He was only worth about 1.5 WAR per season from 2011-2013 in his age 31-33 season. It seems like an overpay to me, but it helps their needs in the short term.
Definitely true. Cruz was the only qualified Oriole with an OPS above .780, and was #1 in HR and 2B.TheoShmeo said:
That said, they're getting Wieters and Machado back, so unfortunately that's still a good lineup.
This seems like a very good deal for the Mariners. It was a spike, but per Fangraphs he was a $21.3 million player last year.
Wingack said:
As a guy who struggled to get a one year deal last year and had half and excellent season and half a poor one, and is about to be a DH in a power sapping park I'm going to disagree, and I'm not a Sandoval fan.
People have really short memories. He was a last gasp bargain basement choice last season had 2 great months to start the season and then 3 months sub 700 OPS with bad def. If Sept had been bad we'd be talking about a lucky two months for an average player. As it is he finished strong and is worth a 4 year deal at nearly 2x per year than a year. Nearly 8 times what he signed for this time a year ago.
I think it's a terrible signing on paper, but you also have to factor in the fact that the Mariners have gotten about .200/.270.300 out of their DH position the last three years. I think Cruz will be a shell of his former self at Safeco, but .250 with 20 home runs is still a massive upgrade over the burning pile of dog poop he is replacing.
For those small and mid market American League teams that don't have a DH in place, I think picking up a player like Cruz is a lot different than it is for a team like the Red Sox or Yankees that have a bunch of signings they will eventually want to dump off there. Cano and Seager will be fine playing the infield for the next four seasons, so Cruz won't have any competition for DH.
For those small and mid market American League teams that don't have a DH in place, I think picking up a player like Cruz is a lot different than it is for a team like the Red Sox or Yankees that have a bunch of signings they will eventually want to dump off there. Cano and Seager will be fine playing the infield for the next four seasons, so Cruz won't have any competition for DH.
It happens. It's why Lester's price tag is so much larger now than what it would have taken to get him at the start of the season. I think the years are a bigger problem than the AAV but as I mentioned earlier, I doubt the M's care about years 3-4 if they win the WS. I think moly's point is relevant here as well.LondonSox said:
I'm sure the M's would have as well. The Tigers moved quickly to bring him back into the fold and I don't know if the M's ever really had a shot at him.
Wingack said:
Care to elaborate? He's old, had a massive power outage the 2nd half of last year, and can't play defense. There's nothing about his profile that lends to the belief that he'll do well in Safeco.
I'm not going to add to the Pablo Sandoval controversy here, but Pablo is a good defender and hitter at a premium position. May or may not be worth the contract he's getting, but he has a better chance to provide value than Cruz.
Good on Cruz finding his DH deal. He's an injury magnet most seasons. I was surprised he made it through 2014 equaling his career highest games played (159, also in 2012).
Since becoming a full-time player in 2009, Cruz's games played for his other four seasons (in descending order): 128, 124, 109, 108.
Cruz has silly-amazing power but needs lots of AB's to compile those power stats. At age 33 (34 next September), I'd take the under on both his PA's next year being less than his career-high 678, and to how many games he plays (even at DH).
Since becoming a full-time player in 2009, Cruz's games played for his other four seasons (in descending order): 128, 124, 109, 108.
Cruz has silly-amazing power but needs lots of AB's to compile those power stats. At age 33 (34 next September), I'd take the under on both his PA's next year being less than his career-high 678, and to how many games he plays (even at DH).
JohntheBaptist said:
Lol, I was thinking, why are you saying that, fixating on the idiot in the front row. Then I saw the fat guy behind him..
moly99 said:
I do know they needed a DH, but you can find better an cheaper options. They could have gotten LaRoche or Butler for half the price. They could have paid more for a better V-Mart. They could have explored a Duda-Miller swap. Maybe work out a Ackley for Chris Davis trade.
foulkehampshire said:
Well, one of the things that I have always liked about Cruz is that he is a thumper that actually is a decent hitter. He has hit over .300 a couple of times and never below .260 as a regular. He has been injury prone in the past but has played 159 games two out of the past three years. Real power is getting more and more rare in the game and I don't feel like SEA overpaid for it in actual dollars (they probably did in years given his age) at $14 million a year. That is about the number I think Sandoval is probably worth as well. I doubt we will see Sandoval ever earn the $19 million a year it averages out to. I think we could see Cruz hit the $14 million mark.
Totally hard to predict the outcome of this one. Projections hate him, but Cruz is a tough (oft-injured, PED-associated) player to project.
If he's a 2 1/2 win player next year and diminishes by the 1/2 win per season benchmark, the Mariners will roughly break even.
I wonder if they had to pay a premium after surveying the garbage available in free agency (and after having Corey Hart decomposing on their roster last year).
If he's a 2 1/2 win player next year and diminishes by the 1/2 win per season benchmark, the Mariners will roughly break even.
I wonder if they had to pay a premium after surveying the garbage available in free agency (and after having Corey Hart decomposing on their roster last year).
GilaMonster said:
The problem they've faced in the past is that the mid-tier hitters don't want to sign to play there. If a guy is looking at a one or two year contract he would rather play in a shoebox where he might have a contract year and get a big payday on his next contract. Free agent hitters will only consider signing with Seattle if they can get financial security. So the Mariners have had to choose between the dregs of the league or overpaying in years for a difference making player like Cano.