Marcelo Mayer, and his gorgeous hair, drafted by Sox / 4 Overall

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
72,679
Yes, it said second youngest?
Yep, I was adding info as to who was first, since I knew Dominguez was to start the season and wanted to see if it was still him, also context as to how the two rivals' #1 prospects are developing.
 

nvalvo

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
22,120
Rogers Park
Jasson Dominguez still the youngest, two months younger than Mayer (he has been in AA all season).
The IFA guys who essentially turn pro at 17 often get there a touch quicker. I.e Mayer reached AA younger than Mookie, but not younger than Bogaerts (19).

But that doesn’t make Dominguez’ achievement any less exciting! It’s just to suggest apples-to-apples comparisons.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
72,679
The IFA guys who essentially turn pro at 17 often get there a touch quicker. I.e Mayer reached AA younger than Mookie, but not younger than Bogaerts (19).
Yeah, Alex Speier said Mayer is the youngest Sox draftee in AA since 2009, impressive.
 

koufax32

He'll cry if he wants to...
SoSH Member
Dec 8, 2006
9,229
Duval
Ryan Kalish was that guy I believe.
Message board fail

You’re supposed to feed our optimism, not give actual evidence that leads to a more level headed realism.

On a serious note, the old adage has been that AA separates the men from the boys primarily because of breaking stuff being a much higher quality. Do we know how Mayer has fared vs breaking pitches so far?
 

Ferm Sheller

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 5, 2007
21,539
Sea Dogs have an 11:05 ET game in Somerset, NJ today (which seems like an odd game time for a Wednesday, BTW). Have to think that Mayer will make his AA debut today, right?
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
54,611
Sea Dogs have an 11:05 ET game in Somerset, NJ today (which seems like an odd game time for a Wednesday, BTW). Have to think that Mayer will make his AA debut today, right?
It's a game where local school kids come to the park.

Game Highlight (2): STEM Education Day
This fun-filled event is designed to help educate students how elements of STEM are visible at the ballpark and in the game of baseball. | Presented By Sanofi
 

Ferm Sheller

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 5, 2007
21,539
It's a game where local school kids come to the park.

Game Highlight (2): STEM Education Day
This fun-filled event is designed to help educate students how elements of STEM are visible at the ballpark and in the game of baseball. | Presented By Sanofi
Okay, thanks. I looked to see whether it's a local holiday but came up empty.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 11, 2007
6,862
He was one of my binkies. Was so physically imposing for his age. Injuries did him in though.
IIRC he was always paired with Josh Reddick in a competitive way- one of them was sticking and the other was trade bait. Theo and Ben both really (over)valued Kalish’s OBP and we’re willing to overlook contact skills as more predictive so let Reddick go. Kalish wasn’t able to keep his higher OBP as he moved up and saw better pitches…. Meanwhile Reddick was able to put together a decent career
 

Sin Duda

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
961
(B)Austin Texas
He was one of my binkies. Was so physically imposing for his age. Injuries did him in though.
My son's club team's coach in Austin, who had been a MiLBer, coached Ryan in NJ and raved about him to me when I asked about him as Ryan was coming up thru the minors. Said he was a future All-Star. I guess every team has their Ryan Kalish/Ryan Westmoreland/Daniel Flores stories. What might have been.
 

PhabPhour20

New Member
Jan 5, 2007
230
Spankee Country, CT
It's a game where local school kids come to the park.
Can I be permitted to tell a story here that is only tangentially related to the thread? Just delete for me if you guys hate it. :)

I spent a summer working for the Bridgeport Bluefish, an erstwhile independent league team in CT (incidentally former home to old friends Shea Hillenbrand, Jose Offerman and Wily Mo Pena), when I was still young and naive enough to think baseball was all high skies, the crack of the bat and the smell of hot dogs. I was a college intern and did all the glamorous jobs like selling tickets during walk up, pestering former ticket buyers over the phone, pulling the tarp, and running the dizzy bat race after the 3rd inning.

The team had one 10 am game each summer and it was when all the local day camps bussed in kids for the day. It was a really fun atmosphere and the park was packed.

So this particular year (2003 or 2004, can't remember) the Bluefish were playing the Newark Bears on camp day. And the Bears had a player that I was excited to see... Rickey Henderson. Before the game they needed someone to shag fly balls with Rickey and I was selected as that guy as a former baseball player. I went to the outfield and stood near Rickey with a glove. The coach would hit a ball out to Rickey who would track it down and catch it. Then he would flip it to me and I had to throw it back in to the infield because he didn't want to hurt his arm.

Anyway, for the first inning or two we interns would work the walk-up window, selling tickets to anyone arriving a bit late. After the 2nd all but one of us would switch to the field for on-field promotions, escorting the mascot through the luxury suites, etc. The offices and locker rooms were located under the stands and behind the visiting dugout, so you had to walk along a pathway under the stadium to go between the dugout and locker room.

On this particular day I was walking out toward the field, under the stadium, when Rickey was walking towards me from the dugout. I asked him why he wasn't out on the field. And I will never forget what he said to me...

"Rickey don't play no 10 am."
 

Heating up in the bullpen

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 24, 2007
1,183
Pittsboro NC
Can I be permitted to tell a story here that is only tangentially related to the thread? Just delete for me if you guys hate it. :)

I spent a summer working for the Bridgeport Bluefish, an erstwhile independent league team in CT (incidentally former home to old friends Shea Hillenbrand, Jose Offerman and Wily Mo Pena), when I was still young and naive enough to think baseball was all high skies, the crack of the bat and the smell of hot dogs. I was a college intern and did all the glamorous jobs like selling tickets during walk up, pestering former ticket buyers over the phone, pulling the tarp, and running the dizzy bat race after the 3rd inning.

The team had one 10 am game each summer and it was when all the local day camps bussed in kids for the day. It was a really fun atmosphere and the park was packed.

So this particular year (2003 or 2004, can't remember) the Bluefish were playing the Newark Bears on camp day. And the Bears had a player that I was excited to see... Rickey Henderson. Before the game they needed someone to shag fly balls with Rickey and I was selected as that guy as a former baseball player. I went to the outfield and stood near Rickey with a glove. The coach would hit a ball out to Rickey who would track it down and catch it. Then he would flip it to me and I had to throw it back in to the infield because he didn't want to hurt his arm.

Anyway, for the first inning or two we interns would work the walk-up window, selling tickets to anyone arriving a bit late. After the 2nd all but one of us would switch to the field for on-field promotions, escorting the mascot through the luxury suites, etc. The offices and locker rooms were located under the stands and behind the visiting dugout, so you had to walk along a pathway under the stadium to go between the dugout and locker room.

On this particular day I was walking out toward the field, under the stadium, when Rickey was walking towards me from the dugout. I asked him why he wasn't out on the field. And I will never forget what he said to me...

"Rickey don't play no 10 am."
Why would anyone hate or delete this story?? I love it! Rickey referring to himself in the third person is pure gold!
Have you read Ryan McGee’s “Welcome to the Circus of Baseball”? Memoir of interning for a minor league team in the 90s. Probably a lot similar to your experience.
Thanks for sharing.
 

PhabPhour20

New Member
Jan 5, 2007
230
Spankee Country, CT
Have you read Ryan McGee’s “Welcome to the Circus of Baseball”? Memoir of interning for a minor league team in the 90s. Probably a lot similar to your experience.
I have not read it but thanks for the recommendation!

It was an eye opening experience. I was bright eyed and bushy tailed and had the romantic vision of baseball that you are supposed to have as a kid. That disappeared almost instantly that summer.

The first day when all the interns started, the GM sat us down and said essentially: "This is an ass business. We have to get asses in the seats. Each ass has $20 in the pocket and it is our job to get that $20 out of the pocket."

I was gobsmacked. Still a fun summer (except for pulling the tarp which is smelly and gross and full of dead rodents) but dissuaded me from pursuing the career in baseball I had always dreamed of. I wanted to be the next wunderkind GM, obviously, but realized the dream was far from the reality.
 

CarolinaBeerGuy

Don't know him from Adam
SoSH Member
Mar 14, 2006
10,517
Kernersville, NC
Can I be permitted to tell a story here that is only tangentially related to the thread? Just delete for me if you guys hate it. :)

I spent a summer working for the Bridgeport Bluefish, an erstwhile independent league team in CT (incidentally former home to old friends Shea Hillenbrand, Jose Offerman and Wily Mo Pena), when I was still young and naive enough to think baseball was all high skies, the crack of the bat and the smell of hot dogs. I was a college intern and did all the glamorous jobs like selling tickets during walk up, pestering former ticket buyers over the phone, pulling the tarp, and running the dizzy bat race after the 3rd inning.

The team had one 10 am game each summer and it was when all the local day camps bussed in kids for the day. It was a really fun atmosphere and the park was packed.

So this particular year (2003 or 2004, can't remember) the Bluefish were playing the Newark Bears on camp day. And the Bears had a player that I was excited to see... Rickey Henderson. Before the game they needed someone to shag fly balls with Rickey and I was selected as that guy as a former baseball player. I went to the outfield and stood near Rickey with a glove. The coach would hit a ball out to Rickey who would track it down and catch it. Then he would flip it to me and I had to throw it back in to the infield because he didn't want to hurt his arm.

Anyway, for the first inning or two we interns would work the walk-up window, selling tickets to anyone arriving a bit late. After the 2nd all but one of us would switch to the field for on-field promotions, escorting the mascot through the luxury suites, etc. The offices and locker rooms were located under the stands and behind the visiting dugout, so you had to walk along a pathway under the stadium to go between the dugout and locker room.

On this particular day I was walking out toward the field, under the stadium, when Rickey was walking towards me from the dugout. I asked him why he wasn't out on the field. And I will never forget what he said to me...

"Rickey don't play no 10 am."
This is awesome. Thanks for sharing.
 

Chainsaw318

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 6, 2006
1,960
Burned . . . Blacklisted
A bunch of things to get excited about on those 3 hits as well. A liner to right for the first one, went the other way to get the run home for the second, and put the third up the gap in right center on a decent line.
 

Sin Duda

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
961
(B)Austin Texas
Well, I learned how to pronounce his name from the play-by-play guy; the "c" on Marcelo is soft, not a "ch", and Mayer is like Oscar Mayer. I would have both wrong. And we won't be able to call him the Mayor of Boston. Drat!
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
31,494
I have not read it but thanks for the recommendation!

It was an eye opening experience. I was bright eyed and bushy tailed and had the romantic vision of baseball that you are supposed to have as a kid. That disappeared almost instantly that summer.

The first day when all the interns started, the GM sat us down and said essentially: "This is an ass business. We have to get asses in the seats. Each ass has $20 in the pocket and it is our job to get that $20 out of the pocket."

I was gobsmacked. Still a fun summer (except for pulling the tarp which is smelly and gross and full of dead rodents) but dissuaded me from pursuing the career in baseball I had always dreamed of. I wanted to be the next wunderkind GM, obviously, but realized the dream was far from the reality.
1. That is a great story.
2. At least you didn't find Vince Coleman's carcass in the tarp.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

posts way less than 18% useful shit
SoSH Member
Nov 17, 2010
14,622
For you NH folks, SeaDogs are playing the FisherCats at the end of the month. Delta Dental stadium is super easy to get in and out of, and the stadium is nice. Should be a good way to see the Sox face of the future on the cheap.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

has fancy plans, and pants to match
Dope
SoSH Member
Apr 12, 2001
24,971
Can I be permitted to tell a story here that is only tangentially related to the thread? Just delete for me if you guys hate it. :)

I spent a summer working for the Bridgeport Bluefish, an erstwhile independent league team in CT (incidentally former home to old friends Shea Hillenbrand, Jose Offerman and Wily Mo Pena), when I was still young and naive enough to think baseball was all high skies, the crack of the bat and the smell of hot dogs. I was a college intern and did all the glamorous jobs like selling tickets during walk up, pestering former ticket buyers over the phone, pulling the tarp, and running the dizzy bat race after the 3rd inning.

The team had one 10 am game each summer and it was when all the local day camps bussed in kids for the day. It was a really fun atmosphere and the park was packed.

So this particular year (2003 or 2004, can't remember) the Bluefish were playing the Newark Bears on camp day. And the Bears had a player that I was excited to see... Rickey Henderson. Before the game they needed someone to shag fly balls with Rickey and I was selected as that guy as a former baseball player. I went to the outfield and stood near Rickey with a glove. The coach would hit a ball out to Rickey who would track it down and catch it. Then he would flip it to me and I had to throw it back in to the infield because he didn't want to hurt his arm.

Anyway, for the first inning or two we interns would work the walk-up window, selling tickets to anyone arriving a bit late. After the 2nd all but one of us would switch to the field for on-field promotions, escorting the mascot through the luxury suites, etc. The offices and locker rooms were located under the stands and behind the visiting dugout, so you had to walk along a pathway under the stadium to go between the dugout and locker room.

On this particular day I was walking out toward the field, under the stadium, when Rickey was walking towards me from the dugout. I asked him why he wasn't out on the field. And I will never forget what he said to me...

"Rickey don't play no 10 am."
Terrific story, thanks for sharing.

There are a lot of great Riceky stories in Howard Bryant's excellent book about Rickey that came out a few months ago. You should drop what you're doing right now and read it.
 

MtPleasant Paul

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 28, 2015
169
Mayer's coming fast. He's one of the top half dozen prospects now in minor league baseball. Is it possible that he's our shortstop next year? With Story at second base it looks like a big improvement over the bunch they have been sending out there this year.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 23, 2009
21,547
Maine
Mayer's coming fast. He's one of the top half dozen prospects now in minor league baseball. Is it possible that he's our shortstop next year? With Story at second base it looks like a big improvement over the bunch they have been sending out there this year.
Possible? I suppose. Second half of next season seems like a stronger possibility than breaking camp though. I'd say we've got at least another 12 months of Kike/Arroyo/Chang/Reyes level stop-gaps in the meantime.
 

Heating up in the bullpen

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 24, 2007
1,183
Pittsboro NC
Mayer's coming fast. He's one of the top half dozen prospects now in minor league baseball. Is it possible that he's our shortstop next year? With Story at second base it looks like a big improvement over the bunch they have been sending out there this year.
I’d guess a lot of things would have to break right for that to happen. Mostly with Mayer himself.
He played 65 games in Salem last year, dominating the level. Got bumped up to Greenville where he played 35 games last year and another 25 this year — 60 games total. So he conquered A ball in 65 games and A+ in 60 games.
If he can conquer AA in 60 games will they give him a taste of AAA this season (if he can stay on the field for 60 games)? He could play 60ish games by about mid/late-August if he stays healthy.
Is a late season taste of AAA and a strong spring training enough to get him to the show for the start of ‘24?
Would be great to see.
 

LogansDad

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 15, 2006
30,744
Alamogordo
I’d guess a lot of things would have to break right for that to happen. Mostly with Mayer himself.
He played 65 games in Salem last year, dominating the level. Got bumped up to Greenville where he played 35 games last year and another 25 this year — 60 games total. So he conquered A ball in 65 games and A+ in 60 games.
If he can conquer AA in 60 games will they give him a taste of AAA this season (if he can stay on the field for 60 games)? He could play 60ish games by about mid/late-August if he stays healthy.
Is a late season taste of AAA and a strong spring training enough to get him to the show for the start of ‘24?
Would be great to see.
I don't think AAA is a necessity at this point. A lot of players (ready or not) are making the jump from AA to the Majors. I know I keep bringing him up, but Mayer is on the same track as Julio Rodriguez right now, who spent the 2nd half of his age 20 season in AA, got a spring invite and forced his way onto the Opening Day roster.

If the Sox see Mayer as the best SS for the team in March, he will make the team. He might be the best SS for the team right now, to be honest, but I really doubt we see something that crazy happen this season.
 

JBJ_HOF

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 5, 2014
543
Look how insanely poor young player across baseball have been. There is zero reason to rush him. He should finish this season in Portland, finish next season in Worcester, and be called up early in 2025. Mayer is ridiculously young. Burning a season worth of him while his head spinning is malpractice.
 

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
12,822
Possible? I suppose. Second half of next season seems like a stronger possibility than breaking camp though. I'd say we've got at least another 12 months of Kike/Arroyo/Chang/Reyes level stop-gaps in the meantime.
I think it’s more likely that Story goes to SS and that they let Dr. Strangeglove II keep manning 2B.
 

LogansDad

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 15, 2006
30,744
Alamogordo
Look how insanely poor young player across baseball have been. There is zero reason to rush him. He should finish this season in Portland, finish next season in Worcester, and be called up early in 2025. Mayer is ridiculously young. Burning a season worth of him while his head spinning is malpractice.
Are they struggling, though?

There are 12 players who are 22 or under and have 100+ plate appearance so far this season. Of them, 6 have an OPS+ of 100 or higher and only 3 have an OPS+ below 80 (and one of them is a Yankee, so that should be celebrated). The list includes super talented guys like Corbin Carroll, Wander, J-Rod, Gunnar Henderson and Jordan Walker. I would be confident placing Mayer's talent in the same pool as these guys, YMMV. J-Rod won RotY at 21, and has had ups and downs in his sophomore season but just became the fastest Mariner to 10 HR/10 SB in a season since like the 70's. And the one guy below 70 on that list is Michael Harris, who put up a 5.3 WAR season last year as a 21 year old.

I would argue that the guys who are struggling are the slightly older, more middling talents, who needed seasoning in AAA before they could get to the Majors.

One issue that I think is going on (and I will try doing research on it later, but don't have time right now), is that I feel like development has stalled a bit at AAA because of the way teams are using it almost like a reserve roster instead of a development level. The really good pitchers are either skipping the level, or not spending very long there, and so it is filled with 5/6/7 starter types that teams are stashing for when their regular pitchers get hurt and need to spend time on the IL. Using Rotowire (it's fantasy purposes, but it's what I have a sub to), of the pitchers in the top 100 prospects ranking, 5 of them are in AAA, 10 are already in the majors, and 7 are in AA. Of the 10 who are in the majors, only Taj Bradley and Matt Liberatore spent significant time in AAA. The very good pitchers and very good hitters simply don't go there for any significant amount of time anymore.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 13, 2021
13,259
Hasn’t that been true of AAA for a long time, though?

I think the struggling at the major league level for a bit may be unavoidable- if the talent difference is so stark, no amount of additional time in AA / AAA will necessary help. A guy like Kelenic had ~500 PA of -2 bWAR but now is having a really good year. Torkelson seems to still be in the adjustment phase.

but Mayer has only had 32 PA of a 591 ops at AA, any of this discussion seems way premature.
 

LogansDad

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 15, 2006
30,744
Alamogordo
Hasn’t that been true of AAA for a long time, though?

I think the struggling at the major league level for a bit may be unavoidable- if the talent difference is so stark, no amount of additional time in AA / AAA will necessary help. A guy like Kelenic had ~500 PA of -2 bWAR but now is having a really good year. Torkelson seems to still be in the adjustment phase.

but Mayer has only had 32 PA of a 591 ops at AA, any of this discussion seems way premature.
Sure, but we don't have anything better to do, right? And this is a thread about him, right?

Mayer also went 0 for his first 13 or so at bats in AA, and is now 5-11 with a 2B and HR since then. All I can do is use data from other players that have had similar pedigrees to him recently, and say that I believe he has the ability to be as good as those guys. And very few of those guy on that list are having "insanely poor" seasons, as per the post I was responding to.

For instance, let's look at a guy who is currently struggling at the MLB level. I think Casas has two very important skills that will decide if he excels at the MLB level. The prettier one of those is his power. It is there, we have seen it, but it requires the other skill to be working properly for him to really be the game changer we want him to be. The other skill, of course is his control of the strike zone and his patience. I actually think this second skill needs some serious adjustment to help him at the MLB level, because MLB level pitchers have an insanely better ability to take it and use it against him than guys at AAA. I think Casas needs to work it out at the MLB level, because the aforementioned AAA pitchers just aren't a challenge for him at this point, but if he doesn't figure that out he becomes a nearly useless player at the MLB level. His hit tool isn't great, his speed doesn't exist, his baserunning seems largely a minus, and his defense is... well, that's for another thread. But those are the types of player who are getting promoted to MLB and playing "insanely poorly". I don't believe Mayer falls into that group.

Personally, I think he is good enough to work through it and become a very good player, but there is also a good chance of "this simply is what he is", too.

Watching Mayer, almost all of his tools are already better than Casas' non-power tools. Assuming he progresses the rest of this year through AA, I simply don't think that AAA will pose enough of a challenge for his development next for it to be worth sending him there. His defense is smooth (though he has hiccups, like anyone), his hit tool is good, his K:BB rate is manageable, he seems to my eye to be a plus baserunner, and the power is there (and it is EASY).

A guy like Casas' potential is a very good baseball player.

Marcelo Mayer has the skillset to be a special player. In a lot of ways he already is. His "leadership" is well documented. His attitude is awesome. He needs to be challenged to excel.

I also don't think service time, or wasting a year of his cheap contracts is an issue, because he is a guy you roll out the Brinks truck for. I would actually argue that wasting a year of his development in AAA is a far more egregious sin than having him with the MLB club. He is more Wander Franco than Triston Casas.

But, like you said, maybe he completely flames out in Portland and this entire conversation is moot.