Madden: Yanks 'stable' compared to Dodgers, Red Sox

[terrynever]

Interesting piece in Sunday's Daily News by Bill Madden, discussing the wild-spending Dodgers, the mistakes made by Ben Cherington and his bosses, and the Yankees sticking to Hal Steinbrenner's plan, as executed by GM Brian Cashman

Madden could have taken this a step farther and speculated as to what the Yankees' payroll may look like in 2018 if several of the young prospects crack the big league lineup. Under $200M? Just losing A-Rod and Teixeira will get them there. Greg Bird seems like he can capably take over at first base in 2017. Aaron Judge is about a year away from becoming the new RF. Refsnyder should be the 2B in 2016.

Yanks will still spend money, of course, but having at least three starters on rookie contracts is going to contribute to a badly needed period of stability for the franchise.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/madden-dodgers-red-sox-moves-making-yankees-stable-article-1.2334223

 

[WenZink]

You know it was a bad off-season for the Red Sox when they make the Yankees look like the "model of consistency."
 
One thing I had not heard was Madden's suspicion (from your link) that "All of those costly blunders go on Cherington’s record, although there is strong suspicion team chairman Tom Werner, who wrecked the San Diego Padres back in the ’90s, was the one who spearheaded the Sandoval and Ramirez signings."
 
Does Madden have an axe to grind with Werner?  And here, all this time, I was blaming Allard Baird for everything!  

 

[rlsb]

Bill James a fraud?  Are all his suggestions outside of those espoused by Madden worthy of a rapid dismissal?  Hmmm.

 

[jon abbey]

Of course, go back just one season and you get the tail end of NY's ill-fated attempt to get under $189M, which messed up a few years for them along the way and ended up landing them with that Ellsbury deal, which I think will be quite ugly by the end. They are "sticking to a plan" in large part because they're already locked into so much money, for 2016 also. 

 

[ShaneTrot]

What's the plan? Not winning World Series but spending massive amounts of money?

 

[WenZink]

Of course, go back just one season and you get the tail end of NY's ill-fated attempt to get under $189M, which messed up a few years for them along the way and ended up landing them with that Ellsbury deal, which I think will be quite ugly by the end. They are "sticking to a plan" in large part because they're already locked into so much money, for 2016 also. 

 
But they did show remarkable restraint at the trading deadline.  If the Yankees get bounced in the ALDS because of want of a David Price, will it be a "fiscally smart' move, given the future revenues they would have lost.  Price could have only been a rental, albeit at the loss of at least one very good prospect.  For any other market, the Yankees would surely have done the right thing, but they do operate under a different set of expectations and with bigger financial opportunities.
 
I wondered if their "restraint" had anything to do with the rising prospects for the NY Mets.

 

[jon abbey]

What's the plan? Not winning World Series but spending massive amounts of money?
 

It's just bullshit back-patting for not trading their handful of quality kids, because Severino and Bird have both looked pretty good in their brief stints so far.
 
Apologies to Terry, but pretty much every piece I ever read in the Daily News sports section leaves me furious, which is why I have done my best to avoid it for decades. That Bill James line alone renders this piece pretty despicable and ignorable. Also Joel Sherman, who I generally really like, wrote a similar piece a few days ago, which is also thoroughly ignorable but I will link it anyway:

http://nypost.com/2015/08/19/dombrowski-hire-is-latest-proof-red-sox-are-true-evil-empire/

 

[jon abbey]

 
But they did show remarkable restraint at the trading deadline.  

 
Did they? Price was on the market for maybe 24 hours, and Anthopolous literally told Dombrowski he could have whichever prospects he wanted for him, so trying to top that would have been fairly insane. Cashman did offer Mateo for Craig Kimbrel and was only saved from that seeming mistake by Preller's incompetence. 

 

[jon abbey]

For some reason, no one is writing the real story, which is that Cashman deserves quite a bit of praise for this past offseason, landing young guys like Gregorius and Eovaldi to fill key roles while having his hands tied (temporarily) by the massive contract commitments already in place.
 
Also he deserves big credit for the number of quality relievers he's managed to keep under team control, all seemingly able to hit 95+. 20 of them? 25? It's pretty amazing, yet I have yet to read this story from anyone in depth. 

 

[terrynever]

Every reporter brings a bit of bias to his stories. Madden tipped his hand with his pointless references to Bill James. His article, IMO, speaks more to the Dodgers than Boston. And he is kissing Cashman's butt, always helpful to a reporter who wants to keep his lines of communication with the GM open.

When it comes to stability, nothing stabilizes a baseball team and its spending more than having 3 or 4 young players arrive in the big leagues roughly at the same time, over one or two years. Boston and NY are both doing that. Sox are a year or two ahead of NY in this regard. Mookie, Swihart and hopefully Bradley are all farm-grown products. Yanks can say the same about Severino, Bird, Refsnyder so far with more on the way.

Madden's article is thought-provoking. But it might be better to focus on the elite prospects rather than the spending mistakes that every big market team inevitably makes in the FA market.

 

[terrynever]

For some reason, no one is writing the real story, which is that Cashman deserves quite a bit of praise for this past offseason, landing young guys like Gregorius and Eovaldi to fill key roles while having his hands tied (temporarily) by the massive contract commitments already in place.
 
Also he deserves big credit for the number of quality relievers he's managed to keep under team control, all seemingly able to hit 95+. 20 of them? 25? It's pretty amazing, yet I have yet to read this story from anyone in depth.

That's because a lot of media (and fans like me) ripped Cashman in April when Didi and Eovaldi were struggling. Give them time. Most writers will eventually own up to their mistakes. This is my mea culpa. Still not convinced that Didi is a long-term answer at SS and Eovaldi has had great run support.

 

[jon abbey]

Every reporter brings a bit of bias to his stories. Madden tipped his hand with his pointless references to Bill James. His article, IMO, speaks more to the Dodgers than Boston. 
 

 
Yeah, the Dodgers are worthy of their own piece (although not a superficial one by Madden), as they're trying to use their financial advantages in ways that arguably the Yankees never even did, even in their wildest spending days. The problem is that it's increasingly hard to spend your way to wins in MLB in the post-greenie era, as more and more of the talent is pre-free agency and more of the guys that make it to FA become almost immediate millstones after being signed. 

 

[jon abbey]

That's because a lot of media (and fans like me) ripped Cashman in April when Didi and Eovaldi were struggling. Give them time. Most writers will eventually own up to their mistakes. This is my mea culpa. Still not convinced that Didi is a long-term answer at SS and Eovaldi has had great run support.

 
I agree the jury is still somewhat out on both of those guys, but it is not out on the reliever stockpiling part. Cashman has a bunch he hasn't even had to go to yet (Bailey, Pazos, Barbato to name three), and Lindgren, who they were counting on, has been out most of the year. 

 

[terrynever]

You missed some great Daily News articles during the steroids era. Their investigative team led the way in coverage of the abuse.

 

[jon abbey]

You missed some great Daily News articles during the steroids era. Their investigative team led the way in coverage of the abuse.

 
Meh, 99 percent of the sport-wide use/abuse remains undiscovered and unreported. Real reporters would have managed to unearth dozens of Brian McNamees around the sport, not just the one. Not impressed. 

 

[terrynever]

I agree the jury is still somewhat out on both of those guys, but it is not out on the reliever stockpiling part. Cashman has a bunch he hasn't even had to go to yet (Bailey, Pazos, Barbato to name three), and Lindgren, who they were counting on, has been out most of the year.

I think he generally gets credit for the Yankees having solid bullpens more often than not. Signing Miller was just a matter of outbidding the field. Betances is a star only after failing for six years in the minors as a starter. Give the credit there to Rothschild and Girardi, with Cashman overseeing the switch. Robertson came up thru baseball development, a credit to the entire organization. Rivera preceded Cashman and anchored the pen for 15 years.

 

[terrynever]

Meh, 99 percent of the sport-wide use/abuse remains undiscovered and unreported. Real reporters would have managed to unearth dozens of Brian McNamees around the sport, not just the one. Not impressed.

Where are these real reporters working? I assume you mean investigative reporters who work in the serious end of the news gathering process. Sports is still the toy department, a place where good reporters sometimes begin their careers before growing weary of the participants.

 

[terrynever]

I agree the jury is still somewhat out on both of those guys, but it is not out on the reliever stockpiling part. Cashman has a bunch he hasn't even had to go to yet (Bailey, Pazos, Barbato to name three), and Lindgren, who they were counting on, has been out most of the year.

Since you mentioned Pazos, what have you heard about him? Hal S mentioned him last week. His numbers look real.

 

[jon abbey]

Where are these real reporters working? I assume you mean investigative reporters who work in the serious end of the news gathering process. Sports is still the toy department, a place where good reporters sometimes begin their careers before growing weary of the participants.

 
Yeah, I'm not saying they exist, but I'm also not giving credit for any kind of serious steroid exposes from the Daily News people when it was so limited and reliant on one guy. Sports Illustrated has done some over the years, the Ken Caminiti cover story was quite shocking at the time. 

 

[jon abbey]

Since you mentioned Pazos, what have you heard about him? Hal S mentioned him last week. His numbers look real.

 
Yeah, I don't know much more except that NY is probably the one team that being a lefty reliever hurts him, as Shreve/Wilson/Miller have been constants as NY shuttles in RHP after RHP. 

 

[terrynever]

Yeah, I'm not saying they exist, but I'm also not giving credit for any kind of serious steroid exposes from the Daily News people when it was so limited and reliant on one guy. Sports Illustrated has done some over the years, the Ken Caminiti cover story was quite shocking at the time.

Daily News I Team won a national award for its steroids coverage, relating to stories on five or six athletes, led by A-Rod and Bonds. I think one of their guys jumped to OTL on ESPN.

Sports Illustrated used to have a horse in this race. Who reads it now, even the on-line version? Sorry, wrong thread.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/daily-news-sports-department-brings-home-major-apse-awards-article-1.176879

 

[terrynever]

Yeah, I don't know much more except that NY is probably the one team that being a lefty reliever hurts him, as Shreve/Wilson/Miller have been constants as NY shuttles in RHP after RHP.

Belongs in bullpen thread but what the hell. Do you think a couple of the lefties are heading to the overworked category yet?

 

[jon abbey]

I still subscribe to the print version of SI, I have been reading it since I was 8 (first issue I remember is the 1975 college football preview with Archie Griffin on the cover). Coincidentally they ran a very good profile of Cashman this week, fart machine and all.

 

[Wingack]

For some reason, no one is writing the real story, which is that Cashman deserves quite a bit of praise for this past offseason, landing young guys like Gregorius and Eovaldi to fill key roles while having his hands tied (temporarily) by the massive contract commitments already in place.
 

 
For me this is the real story too. I loved these moves when they were made, especially since I was never a Shane Greene guy, but this are the types of moves that the Yankees have sadly never done but are now realizing they need to do to get younger and to have a more sustainable payroll/roster. 
 
Even though it was a couple of years ago, Cash does deserve some credit for Pineda too. That trade was in a similar mold.
 
I invite the Yankees to do more of the same this offseason and to stay away from big time free agents.

 

[EvilEmpire]

Also Joel Sherman, who I generally really like, wrote a similar piece a few days ago, which is also thoroughly ignorable but I will link it anyway:

http://nypost.com/2015/08/19/dombrowski-hire-is-latest-proof-red-sox-are-true-evil-empire/

I fundamentally disagree with his premise. Insulted even.