Definitely can be a factor as well. Balls matter.Maybe it's getting used to Olympic ball then having to get used to a new Wilson ball?
Definitely can be a factor as well. Balls matter.Maybe it's getting used to Olympic ball then having to get used to a new Wilson ball?
you know - I actually agree with you.There was a pretty long string of possessions until the game was iced when Tatum just ran to the corner and played decoy. And honestly, it was the right call. The Schroeder, Smart, Horford plays were working much better, attacking the rim much more aggressively. Even Marcus’ step back seemed like a better choice than a lot of Tatum’s attempts tonight.
Yeah, but if it continues to work, teams will adjust to it and it should lead to better shots for Tatum.you know - I actually agree with you.
It worked....but I "still" don't like it.
Down the stretch, I should want the ball to be in the hands of my best player. The fact that "not" doing that was the better option --- given JT's propensity to attempt bad shots --- makes me uneasy.
Defenses attack differently down the stretch than during normal course of a game so there is more urgency and intensity. I would be more comfortable doing this with Tatum who can more easily back out of a trap, force the trapper to retreat and get right into iso as a second option. I don’t like this at all with Schroder, or anyone else on our roster, who would be more susceptible to a trap or being forced to move the ball against aware defenses in these spots.I like the idea of putting the ball hander, be it Schroder or Tatum (or Brown) in a pick and roll with Horford. The latter moves well enough, is a good and willing passer, and can score at all three levels with a bit of space. The most reliable bucket this team has had in the 3-4 years were the Kyrie/Horford pick and rolls, and I don't see why that couldn't continue to be a reliable scoring option down the stretch.
It's not because of his propensity to attempt bad shots; it's because his shot hasn't been falling this year, even on good looks. Using him as a decoy/spacer to win games is important. Sometimes you're in a slump and the team has to figure things out.you know - I actually agree with you.
It worked....but I "still" don't like it.
Down the stretch, I should want the ball to be in the hands of my best player. The fact that "not" doing that was the better option --- given JT's propensity to attempt bad shots --- makes me uneasy.
Took almost 24 hours for someone to land this plane. On behalf of a grateful board, thank you.LiAngelo just wishes that it was true.
Surely others considered but it was nighthob who had the courage to comment. Some could say he’s the only one who had the balls to do so.Took almost 24 hours for someone to land this plane. On behalf of a grateful board, thank you.
There are no lengths I won't go to for a cheap laugh.Took almost 24 hours for someone to land this plane. On behalf of a grateful board, thank you.
Did Udoka bench him in the first quarter? He was playing sluggishly from the opening and disappeared around the six minute mark, never to return to until the second quarter if I recall correctly. I don’t ever remember that kind of rest pattern before, and I don’t think that he was in foul trouble at the time. Whatever happened seemed to work, as Tatum was much more effective in the second quarter and actually played aggressively with good body language in the second half. There was an interesting article circulating recently about how Nick Saban had Mac Jones filmed so that the young quarterback could see how his emotional outbursts impacted his teammates. I wonder if Brad Stevens ever considered doing the same with Tatum.Feast your eyes.
I didn't initially think Tatum was benched - Ime took him out right after he picked up his second foul. One notable difference between Brad and Ime is that Brad rarely adjusted his rotations because of foul trouble, whereas Ime seems to do so much more readily.Did Udoka bench him in the first quarter? He was playing sluggishly from the opening and disappeared around the six minute mark, never to return to until the second quarter if I recall correctly. I don’t ever remember that kind of rest pattern before, and I don’t think that he was in foul trouble at the time. Whatever happened seemed to work, as Tatum was much more effective in the second quarter and actually played aggressively with good body language in the second half. There was an interesting article circulating recently about how Nick Saban had Mac Jones filmed so that the young quarterback could see how his emotional outbursts impacted his teammates. I wonder if Brad Stevens ever considered doing the same with Tatum.
I couldn’t recall whether Tatum had one or two fouls at the time. Perhaps it’s as simple as that.I didn't initially think Tatum was benched - Ime took him out right after he picked up his second foul.
thanks for posting
If it was, at all, a benching, it strikes me as a very clever way to bench a star. Benching a star is guaranteed to create a media shitstorm. But here Ime can just say "I was protecting him after the second foul."I couldn’t recall whether Tatum had one or two fouls at the time. Perhaps it’s as simple as that.
I really liked that last possession, Tatum passed out of the double, then the ball swings around to Smart, who attacked the closeout and fed back to Tatum for a wide open 3. Great positive feedback for ball movement.
He had 2 fouls.Did Udoka bench him in the first quarter? He was playing sluggishly from the opening and disappeared around the six minute mark, never to return to until the second quarter if I recall correctly. I don’t ever remember that kind of rest pattern before, and I don’t think that he was in foul trouble at the time. Whatever happened seemed to work, as Tatum was much more effective in the second quarter and actually played aggressively with good body language in the second half. There was an interesting article circulating recently about how Nick Saban had Mac Jones filmed so that the young quarterback could see how his emotional outbursts impacted his teammates. I wonder if Brad Stevens ever considered doing the same with Tatum.
It's actually not an arbitrary cutoff at all - that was the first game Jaylen missed. I think we're all hoping it's coincidence that Tatum finally started looking like himself when Brown went to the bench.Arbitrary cutoff and all that, I know. But over the last 7 games he is averaging 28/9/4 on 44/40 splits, and has a +9.3 net rating.
Obviously the last two games he’s starting to look like himself offensively, but his defense has been pretty excellent since that ugly first few games.
Well he had some garbage games with Brown out too.It's actually not an arbitrary cutoff at all - that was the first game Jaylen missed. I think we're all hoping it's coincidence that Tatum finally started looking like himself when Brown went to the bench.
Like most, I like the rule changes. But I do think this will eventually lead to more 3pt shootingFor those asking about Tatum's foul-drawing: here's a really good video breaking down how officiating has changed this year to disincentivize offensive players seeking out contact on drives. Tatum mentioned a bit, but the examples of what is and isn't allowed are good.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tojc0cl680
I don't love overly 3-happy NBA ball, but I strongly prefer more 3s to whatever the hell Trae and Harden do on their drives. It's bad product, and the league (to its credit) seems to have recognized that.Like most, I like the rule changes. But I do think this will eventually lead to more 3pt shooting
Good stuff. Tatum is not and never has been the problem here. Trade the other 16.
And this is with Tatum still not shooting that well from 3 - he's hit .361 from behind the arc during these 14 games, well under his career average entering this year (.396) and worse than his worst full season (.373 back in 2019). He starts hitting close to 40%, he'll again look like a top 10 player.Good stuff. Tatum is not and never has been the problem here. Trade the other 16.
Could just be contact. If not, hopefully it's mild this time around.Damn. Round two?
https://twitter.com/celtics
#NEBHInjuryReport update: Jayson Tatum (Health & Safety Protocols) - OUT
Probably Omicron. Tatum has been vaxxed as well. Almost 99% certain this will be far milder than his pre-vaxx infection last year.Could just be contact. If not, hopefully it's mild this time around.
I am too, but there's always that 1% and it's the Celtics.Probably Omicron. Tatum has been vaxxed as well. Almost 99% certain this will be far milder than his pre-vaxx infection last year.
The new protocol for vaccinated players should only result in Tatum missing 3-4 games and other teams will be missing players too. Tonight, for example, we play the Wolves without Towns, Edwards, and Russell.If, for some reason, Tatum is out for an extended period of time this year, the C's are probably lottery bound and should definitely be trading away a few pieces.
Extended period of time being longer than 10-14 days or whatever.
Yeah, he's not going to miss close to the time with Covid. I just meant if he had another injury or whatever. With no Tatum, this team is ugly.The new protocol for vaccinated players should only result in Tatum missing 3-4 games and other teams will be missing players too. Tonight, for example, we play the Wolves without Towns, Edwards, and Russell.
It’s all relative though. Even without Tatum for the next five games we’ll be favored in four of them due to other teams also missing their star players.Yeah, he's not going to miss close to the time with Covid. I just meant if he had another injury or whatever. With no Tatum, this team is ugly.
That's basically the difference between Tatum and Brown. With Tatum as your best player, you are probably play in game bound at worst. With Brown as your best player, you are in the running for a top 5 pick.
I've got about 15 friends that had COVID early, got vaxxed, and now have it again (or just got over it in the past week). Some were hospitalized for weeks the first time around, and ended up getting really fucked up. Even they (along with everyone else) said this time around, it was nothing but a 2 day head cold/flu with a sore throat. And then they felt fine. I would hope it's the same for Tatum.Probably Omicron. Tatum has been vaxxed as well. Almost 99% certain this will be far milder than his pre-vaxx infection last year.
Same here. I came up for the holidays and haven’t been able to see family bc all but two of our 6-7 close family households have cases with symptoms less than the flu. No doctor here but all signs seem to be that this will pass soon…….unlike Tatum/Jaylen, who may not pass in the foreseeable future.I've got about 15 friends that had COVID early, got vaxxed, and now have it again (or just got over it in the past week). Some were hospitalized for weeks the first time around, and ended up getting really fucked up. Even they (along with everyone else) said this time around, it was nothing but a 2 day head cold/flu with a sore throat. And then they felt fine. I would hope it's the same for Tatum.
Although when he comes back next week and proceeds to shoot as bad as he has been, I'm sure we'll blame COVID for a couple of months...
+1. AgreedFix Tatum's shooting woes and you fix the team. Of course, fixing the team could also possibly cure Tatum's shooting woes.
I don't think that's a simplistic take at all. Eye test and numbers have Tatum getting pretty good shots from 3 in particular, and just missing a ton that he's made his whole career.I was curious. Tatum was a .458/.396/.840 career shooter going into the year. If he was shooting at his career rates, he would currently have 25 more FGS, 19 of those being 3 pointers, and 3 more FTs. That's 72 more points over 33 games. Instead of averaging 25.6 PPG, he'd be at 27.8. The C's point differential would climb from 1.1 to 3.3. That would probably put their record at closer to 20-13 than the 16-17 it is now.
The C's struggles this year are mostly due to Tatum's performance. That's a simplistic take though. It assumes Tatum's shooting struggles are all on him and that the other 4 players aren't having an impact on the types of shots Tatum is getting/taking.
Fix Tatum's shooting woes and you fix the team. Of course, fixing the team could also possibly cure Tatum's shooting woes.
Is it really fair to compare Tatum's shooting percentages to previous years? For almost his entire career, he has often shared the floor with a third creator in Kyrie, Hayward or Walker. Obviously the effectiveness of those players has varied, but I think we can all agree they were guys that drew attention from opposing defenses and given Tatum better looks. This season he doesn't have either of those guys, and Jaylen has missed significant time as well. He just doesn't have the kind of supporting casts that is going to create more advantageous situations to score than he has throughout his career.I don't think that's a simplistic take at all. Eye test and numbers have Tatum getting pretty good shots from 3 in particular, and just missing a ton that he's made his whole career.
Another way of saying it: the complementary players, when healthy, have actually been pretty decent. Smart, Grant, JRich, RL, TL, Horford, sorta DS.....it's actually a fairly deep team. The problem has been that Jayson Tatum's shooting fell off a cliff.
Decent complementary guys + 2019-2021 Jayson Tatum is a good (not great, but good) team.
I know that this isn't the gambling thread, but I like the Tatum for Towns-Edwards-Russell tradeoff. Wonder how much the line moves after the Tatum announcement.The new protocol for vaccinated players should only result in Tatum missing 3-4 games and other teams will be missing players too. Tonight, for example, we play the Wolves without Towns, Edwards, and Russell.
This.I was curious. Tatum was a .458/.396/.840 career shooter going into the year. If he was shooting at his career rates, he would currently have 25 more FGS, 19 of those being 3 pointers, and 3 more FTs. That's 72 more points over 33 games. Instead of averaging 25.6 PPG, he'd be at 27.8. The C's point differential would climb from 1.1 to 3.3. That would probably put their record at closer to 20-13 than the 16-17 it is now.
The C's struggles this year are mostly due to Tatum's performance. That's a simplistic take though. It assumes Tatum's shooting struggles are all on him and that the other 4 players aren't having an impact on the types of shots Tatum is getting/taking.
Fix Tatum's shooting woes and you fix the team. Of course, fixing the team could also possibly cure Tatum's shooting woes.