Green Zinger Tea - Kristaps Porziņģis 2023-24

MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 26, 2006
14,675
Zinger with ANOTHER T last night, bringing him to 7 on the year already. Only D'Angelo Russell even has 4. It's crazy.

Also, I love that he's so tall that he has this move when he's backing down Schroder where he just sort of, turns, rests his elbow on Schroder's shoulder, and takes a foul shot.
 

sonofgodcf

Guest
Jul 17, 2005
1,646
The toilet.
Zinger with ANOTHER T last night, bringing him to 7 on the year already. Only D'Angelo Russell even has 4. It's crazy.

Also, I love that he's so tall that he has this move when he's backing down Schroder where he just sort of, turns, rests his elbow on Schroder's shoulder, and takes a foul shot.
I hope they take advantage of the techs and use them to get KP days off. Get to 15 T's then get one during the first of a back-to-back. Rinse and repeat.

Can't go after the team for load management if he's serving automatic suspensions.
 

the moops

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 19, 2016
5,085
Saint Paul, MN
Zinger with ANOTHER T last night, bringing him to 7 on the year already. Only D'Angelo Russell even has 4. It's crazy.

Also, I love that he's so tall that he has this move when he's backing down Schroder where he just sort of, turns, rests his elbow on Schroder's shoulder, and takes a foul shot.
https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=381&GameID=0022300031&Season=2023-24&flag=1&title=Porzingis T.FOUL (P2.T3) (N.Green)

Another weak T call there. Looks like he was complaining about the no call here

https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=379&GameID=0022300031&Season=2023-24&flag=1&title=MISS Porzingis 10' Turnaround Fadeaway Shot
 

Euclis20

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 3, 2004
8,836
Imaginationland
It's not just the techs, KP is getting called for more fouls than he has in awhile. He averaged 5.4 fouls per 100 possessions his first two seasons, then 4.6 per 100 from 2018-2023, and so far this season he's back up to 5.5 fouls per 100. Hopefully it's just him playing more aggressive defense and will go down over the year as he adjusts, but other than injury, this is my biggest concern with him thus far. There are 172 players who have 300+ minutes so far this year, and only 15 are fouling at a higher rate than Porzingis.

For comparison, here is the fouls per 100 for the rest of the Celtics' top 8:

-Brown: 4.0
-Hauser: 3.6
-White: 3.1
-Horford: 3.1
-Tatum: 3.0
-Pritchard: 3.0
-Holiday: 2.3 (!)
 

Ed Hillel

Wants to be startin somethin
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2007
45,933
Here
Now we await the news. Didn’t look great, but hopefully nothing major.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
50,369
Like death, taxes and the hot takes thread getting bumped with each loss, an injury was inevitable given the KP experience to date.

Will someone emerge from the bench detritus or does Big Brain Brad need to go shopping for a street big? It kind of feels like break glass for Blake time maybe.
 

teddykgb

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
11,425
Chelmsford, MA
I don’t think Blake wins them an additional game. I think they need to use what they have for now and it’s on the coaches to not do dumb things like let the other team keep isolating Kornet 1 v 1 in space.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
50,369
I don’t think Blake wins them an additional game. I think they need to use what they have for now and it’s on the coaches to not do dumb things like let the other team keep isolating Kornet 1 v 1 in space.
Blake wouldn't be signed to win them a game - he would be an in-case-of-emergency big. There were rumors that Stevens wanted him back before the season started but Griffin has been leaning towards retirement. We don't know if Porzingis will be out for a long period of time and we don't know if the C's still want Blake or whether he'd even come back. But my guess is they go in that direction before making any bigger moves.
 

InstaFace

The Ultimate One
SoSH Member
Sep 27, 2016
23,199
Pittsburgh, PA
If it's not a knee or a foot injury for Tingus Pingus, we can all let out at least a half-exhale. Knees and feet are the biggest long-term risk for big men.

KP's injury history, for the record:

Date - injury (games missed):
Mar 2016 - Shoulder (7, injured on this play)
Dec 2016 - Left achilles soreness (3)
Jan 2017 - Elbow swelling (4)
Nov 2017 - Ankle (1)
Nov 2017 - Lower Back (1)
Dec 2017 - Ankle (2)
Dec 2017 - Left knee (2)
Jan 2018 - Left knee (1)
Feb 2018 - Left knee ACL tear (27 + all of 2018-19 season)
Jan 2020 - Right knee (10)
Feb 2020 - Knee (2)
Mar 2020 - Knee (1, then covid hit)
Aug 2020 - Knee (3 playoff games)
Oct 2020 - Lateral meniscus tear in right knee (10)
Feb 2021 - Back (3)
Apr 2021 - Ankle (4)
May 2021 - Right knee soreness (7)
Oct 2021 - Back (5)
Dec 2021 - Knee (2)
Dec 2021 - Toe (2)
Feb 2022 - Right knee bone bruise (14, during which he was traded to Washington for a bag of balls)
Nov 2022 - Groin (1)
Dec 2022 - Back (1)
Jan 2023 - Ribs (1)
Jan 2023 - Ankle (3)
Feb 2023 - Knee (2)
Aug 2023 - Foot (0 NBA games; missed FIBA WC)
Nov 2023 - Right knee contusion (1)
Nov 2023 - Calf (1 and counting)

(excludes covid, rest, precautionary, other illness, etc)


As long as it's not your knee, Kristaps, or a major foot problem, take all of the 1-3 game breaks you need.
 

lexrageorge

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
18,742
The revealed good news, "no significant injury", far outweighs any concern in this case. Missing 4 or 5 games now is just not a big deal; the over/under for KP this regular season was probably in the low 60's, which is perfectly acceptable.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
13,524
To take another fragile big man: if KP were Anthony Davis, we would not be getting excited that he were about to miss a ton of time, based on this injury report.
 

lars10

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
12,616
To take another fragile big man: if KP were Anthony Davis, we would not be getting excited that he were about to miss a ton of time, based on this injury report.
Who’s excited? And who is saying it’s going to be a ton of time?
 

InstaFace

The Ultimate One
SoSH Member
Sep 27, 2016
23,199
Pittsburgh, PA
Right, we literally got a report that it wasn't serious and wasn't about to be a lot of time.

Celtics fans are weird sometimes.
 

BrotherMouzone

New Member
Aug 2, 2010
147
I think everyone knew once the trade went down that Porzingis would inevitably miss time throughout the season. The fact that it doesn't seem serious this go around is a win in my book. He wasn't going to play 70+ games. The goal is to be healthy in the playoffs.
 

InstaFace

The Ultimate One
SoSH Member
Sep 27, 2016
23,199
Pittsburgh, PA
I'm saying the same thing.
I'm having trouble understanding what you mean in post #69 then. If KP (a somewhat-fragile center with an injury history on both knees who's an all-star if healthy) were like AD (the same, only a bit more fragile and all-NBA when healthy, and injuries are more foot/groin than knees), we would not be getting excited (?) that he was about to miss a ton of time (?)... like I just can't follow what you're saying, or even parse if it's sarcastic or sincere.

Anthony Davis's injury history is probably even worse than Porzingis's, and he's 2 years older and ~20 lbs heavier. Are you saying that if he were on our team, we'd be reacting to a report of "it's nothing, just a few games" with an assumption that it was a major problem? And that we don't have to do so with Porzingis? I realize your post was only one line but for whatever reason it's impenetrable to me.
 

lars10

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
12,616
I'm having trouble understanding what you mean in post #69 then. If KP (a somewhat-fragile center with an injury history on both knees who's an all-star if healthy) were like AD (the same, only a bit more fragile and all-NBA when healthy, and injuries are more foot/groin than knees), we would not be getting excited (?) that he was about to miss a ton of time (?)... like I just can't follow what you're saying, or even parse if it's sarcastic or sincere.

Anthony Davis's injury history is probably even worse than Porzingis's, and he's 2 years older and ~20 lbs heavier. Are you saying that if he were on our team, we'd be reacting to a report of "it's nothing, just a few games" with an assumption that it was a major problem? And that we don't have to do so with Porzingis? I realize your post was only one line but for whatever reason it's impenetrable to me.
I misunderstood too. And I can’t figure out another way to read it.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
31,256
How many of those injuries conveniently came on the back end of a B2B? Him being shut down for the season due to a "bone bruise" seems similar to when Pierce was shut down in 2006. The public assumption that Kristaps is a walking injury waiting to happen is soooooo overstated to me. In 6 years, he's had two significant knee injuries and a bunch of small bumps and bruises that many players have. Take away the two freak knee injuries that could occur to anyone and nobody would be discussing his durability or lack of.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
13,524
I'm having trouble understanding what you mean in post #69 then. If KP (a somewhat-fragile center with an injury history on both knees who's an all-star if healthy) were like AD (the same, only a bit more fragile and all-NBA when healthy, and injuries are more foot/groin than knees), we would not be getting excited (?) that he was about to miss a ton of time (?)... like I just can't follow what you're saying, or even parse if it's sarcastic or sincere.

Anthony Davis's injury history is probably even worse than Porzingis's, and he's 2 years older and ~20 lbs heavier. Are you saying that if he were on our team, we'd be reacting to a report of "it's nothing, just a few games" with an assumption that it was a major problem? And that we don't have to do so with Porzingis? I realize your post was only one line but for whatever reason it's impenetrable to me.
I could have worded more clearly.

I was saying that, if AD had this injury, we wouldn't assume he was going to miss much time, even though he has a bad injury history, because it doesn't look to be serious.

I was making the point that we tend to (irrationally) think that injuries to Celtics players are more serious, in the same way that we worry more about Celtics losses.

I understand not getting my point: many here have been on edge, acting like the sky is falling even though the Cs have the best record in the NBA, without shooting luck or an easy schedule.
 

InstaFace

The Ultimate One
SoSH Member
Sep 27, 2016
23,199
Pittsburgh, PA
How many of those injuries conveniently came on the back end of a B2B? Him being shut down for the season due to a "bone bruise" seems similar to when Pierce was shut down in 2006. The public assumption that Kristaps is a walking injury waiting to happen is soooooo overstated to me. In 6 years, he's had two significant knee injuries and a bunch of small bumps and bruises that many players have. Take away the two freak knee injuries that could occur to anyone and nobody would be discussing his durability or lack of.
The bone bruise was around the trade deadline in 2022. He was out for a few weeks, then returned early March to play out the rest of the season with Washington.

Over the course of his 8+ year career, Porzingis has been unavailable due to injury or illness for 38% of his team's potential games (including missing all of 2018-19 with ACL recovery). I think that's a well above average absence rate for NBA players as a whole. It's probably about par for 7-footers, so I don't think there's any sort of grand narrative about him that's necessary or valid. But that doesn't mean it's something we can ignore when setting our own expectations, either. If I were setting the over/under for his games played this regular season, it'd have to be about 52, which is "missing 38%, his career average". He's already ahead of schedule having played in 15 of 17, but missed games come in chunks, of course, and will increase in frequency / probability as a season gets closer to its end.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
31,256
The bone bruise was around the trade deadline in 2022. He was out for a few weeks, then returned early March to play out the rest of the season with Washington.

Over the course of his 8+ year career, Porzingis has been unavailable due to injury or illness for 38% of his team's potential games (including missing all of 2018-19 with ACL recovery). I think that's a well above average absence rate for NBA players as a whole. It's probably about par for 7-footers, so I don't think there's any sort of grand narrative about him that's necessary or valid. But that doesn't mean it's something we can ignore when setting our own expectations, either. If I were setting the over/under for his games played this regular season, it'd have to be about 52, which is "missing 38%, his career average". He's already ahead of schedule having played in 15 of 17, but missed games come in chunks, of course, and will increase in frequency / probability as a season gets closer to its end.
ACL is a freak type of injury though. Where will he rank without that and only include normal wear and tear missed games? Like I don't expect him to play under 65-70 games unless he suffers another similar injury that could happen to anyone.
 

Eddie Jurak

canderson-lite
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2002
45,724
Melrose, MA
What causes me to be nervous about a reported "calf" injury is the proximity of the calf to the Achilles.

A mild calf strain that has KP sitting out is no big deal, assuming the reporting is accurate.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
31,256
What causes me to be nervous about a reported "calf" injury is the proximity of the calf to the Achilles.
This is the first thing I thought of as well and it still could be the Achilles as they will never say otherwise until it Durants.

The reported "calf" injuries are akin to "thigh" injuries when it comes to the knee or more specifically the patella.
 

Spelunker

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 17, 2005
12,713
This is the first thing I thought of as well and it still could be the Achilles as they will never say otherwise until it Durants.

The reported "calf" injuries are akin to "thigh" injuries when it comes to the knee or more specifically the patella.
"forearm tightness"
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
31,955
Or Rodgers who complained of calf strain in camp and then ripped his to shreds. Of course, that godawful MetLife turf may have contributed.
Sometimes a calf strain is just a calf strain (pleasestayhealthypleasestayhealthypleasestayhealthypleasestayhealthypleasestayhealthypleasestayhealthy) . . . .
 

Euclis20

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 3, 2004
8,836
Imaginationland
Per the Celtics, KP will be "re-evaluated in about a week." That's from 11/26, a week later would be 12/3, the day before the knockout game against Indy.
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
21,106
Santa Monica
KP on the broadcast last night said he'll miss one more game, which implies playing Tuesday. Great result if that happens
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
13,524
That's too bad. Could really use his rim protection against the Pacers. Might be first one to 130 wins it.
The flip side is that Horford seems to play great with lots of rest. I bet they give Al more run in this one, like 30-34 minutes. (Which, to be clear, I'm fine with: I'd like to see on a one-off basis how he does with some extra minutes, before putting him back in his 25-mins/game-and-no-B2Bs bubble-wrap.)
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
31,256
The flip side is that Horford seems to play great with lots of rest. I bet they give Al more run in this one, like 30-34 minutes. (Which, to be clear, I'm fine with: I'd like to see on a one-off basis how he does with some extra minutes, before putting him back in his 25-mins/game-and-no-B2Bs bubble-wrap.)
Those have been Horford's normal rotation minutes when starting so no reason not to expect 30-34 aside from variables.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
13,524
Those have been Horford's normal rotation minutes when starting so no reason not to expect 30-34 aside from variables.
Good point: I didn't say that he had played 33 against Philly.

Not worried at all about no KP tonight.
 

InstaFace

The Ultimate One
SoSH Member
Sep 27, 2016
23,199
Pittsburgh, PA
Not worried at all about no KP tonight.
Me either. For one thing, and I assume this is what you mean, I think we can beat Indy without him and they lack the kind of player that we really need KP for (Horford matches up really well with Turner imo).

But for another, this absence is well timed for KP to get rest. If it were at the start of the season, (A) we'd be worried how long it'd be / how big a problem it is, and (B) he wouldn't have mileage on the season odometer from which he needs some recovery. But it's not at the start of the season, he's played 15 of our first 16 games, at full minutes. He's one of the most freakishly big bodies in a league full of freakish bodies. We knew he was going to need some breaks at some point. Maybe he could've gone tonight if we needed him to, but even if his calf is basically 100%, I have zero problem with us babying him or giving a little extra time for every little nick and scratch. Much like Al, we're managing him to peak in April and May, and have as much left in the tank when that arrives.

If it weren't Tournament Week, I'd have said that once KP comes back, we should give JT a game or two off, just to get over whatever he's got going on. Basically on the same reasoning. If we lose tonight or thursday, maybe we do that.
 

timelysarcasm

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 23, 2010
1,757
Los Angeles by way of Roxbury
Great interview - could definitely tell he was holding back a bit on the Dallas stuff, but refreshing to see him put a lot of it on himself.

And we're super lucky for getting him at a point in his career where he has a lot of self-awareness about his game, winning, etc. - while also being young enough to still be a difference maker. He's easy to root for.

And it appears he's good to go:

View: https://twitter.com/Marc_DAmico/status/1732875674560430271
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
21,106
Santa Monica
Good to hear KP embraces/encourages analytics (17:30), even going as far as noting that some players still resist

Maybe we can lose the "players are not robots" straw around here