Everybody hurts sometimes: The latest injuries

moondog80

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I think you've made your point that you're not a fan of Bobby Dalbec. Hopefully Devers is back in there tomorrow and there's nothing to see here.
I hope Devers is back too. But that still will leave a guy without any MLB quality skill occupying a roster spot on a team with the resources to do better. Every game matters, and a better player may not have made the difference last night, but it was a one run game, every AB was important. And they gave away (slight hyperbole) 3 of them.
 

Fishy1

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How about the 109 plate appearances referenced in the tweet? Or the 491 in AAA where he struck out 169 times (30% K rate vs LHP, 35% vs RHP)? Or the 61 in spring training where struck out 21 times? Is that enough sample size?
A 33% k rate is miserable, but plenty of guys have made careers with K rates over 30% or around it. Joey Gallo, Chris Davis, What kills Bobby is that he doesn't walk as much as the successful guys who strike out that much, and he doesn't hit as many XBHs, either. That said, his career K rate (36%!!) would have been tops in the league if he'd qualified last season.

80190
 

SouthernBoSox

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Did you not see the defense? Also I’m sure 22 plate appearances is plenty of sample size.
Are you actually saying Dalbec is getting an unfair shake?

He’s been horrible for 3 years now. He’s a horrible horrible hitter. It’s not like he’s just on some little
rut. He can’t his baseballs.

It was insane how easy it would have been to upgrade Dalbec and they just didn’t do it.
 

Max Power

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Dalbec's defense at third is acceptable. Valdez and Hamilton would be terrible. Reyes might be okay. It would be nice if he could hit at all anymore, but there's continually mounting evidence that he may have already lost any kind of skill he may have had.
 

YTF

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Dalbec is part of the 26 man roster. I'm guessing the leash will be short, but it's not going to be 1 game/3 ABs short. If Dever's misses any period of time this will likely be his last chance to show that he has any shot of being an MLB player. If he's going to be nothing more than the guy at the end of the bench who you're afraid to play then he won't be at the end of the bench for long.
 

moondog80

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Insane?

I think you're having a 2022 flashback. With either Grissom or Refsnyder healthy, there is no spot for Dalbec. Upgrading him wasn't, and isn't, any kind of priority.
Is that true? I’d guess Grissom opened a spot for Valdez, not Dalbec. And I think the emergence of Rafaella means Refsnyder doesn’t get a spot when he comes back, unless they decide to send Abreu down.
 

Rovin Romine

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Is that true? I’d guess Grissom opened a spot for Valdez, not Dalbec.
Yes it's true.

Grissom is a RHH, so you'd have the option of a LHH in Valdez to pair with him. Refsnyder is a better RHH off the bench than Dalbec if you want that. Romy Gonzalez is a better option if you want a super-sub with a Meh bat. All these guys, have a better overall bat than Dalbec does at this point in his career.

Dalbec's only offensive asset is slugging against LHP. He can play (at best) average 3B and 1B, which are our strongest offensive positions.

He's the epitome of a AAA player you keep for emergency depth. And he's being used that way.

One could, I think, credibly argue that Dalbec has untapped potential. But this is the exact same club and coaching group that has failed to bring that out in the last 2.5 years.
 

greek_gawd_of_walks

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Between this news on Devers and the Winckowski bone chips being discovered as late they were, who's fucking leading the medical staff? Patch Adams?

This doesn't seem like competency to me. I assume it's more complicated than what's being reported, but goddamn.
 

Coachster

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Speaking of injuries, what'the latest update on Grissom? Can he walk? Is he able to swing? The lack of information about him makes me think it'll be closer to May when we finally see him, and that's the thing- nobody here has actually ever seen him play (for us).
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Between this news on Devers and the Winckowski bone chips being discovered as late they were, who's fucking leading the medical staff? Patch Adams?

This doesn't seem like competency to me. I assume it's more complicated than what's being reported, but goddamn.
Winckowski said he's been dealing with the discomfort in his ankle since last year. Is it possible he just didn't speak up in a way that would have led him to see a doctor and have it evaluated months ago? Devers too. He said his shoulder has been bothering him for at least a couple weeks, getting progressively worse until yesterday when he decided to shut it down. If he's not telling anyone about it, or insisting it's not a problem, what can the medical staff do? They're not mind-readers and they're not giving guys full work-ups every day. If the player doesn't speak up, it's on him, isn't it?
 

Al Zarilla

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I don't want to see Valdez at 3B very much. It's not that it's inherently a more challenging position or anything, I just don't really trust the guy to move around the diamond. Charging grounders and throwing on the run is not something I'm sure he's got the skills for. I don't know.

Rafaela, on the other hand, I would trust to play some third base if needed.
Re Baseball Ref, Rafaela played in 80 games at 3B in the minors, 76 at SS. He also played some 2B, no First. OF of course. What a versatile kid. I didn't know he was from Willemstad, Curacao. like Kenley.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Speaking of injuries, what'the latest update on Grissom? Can he walk? Is he able to swing? The lack of information about him makes me think it'll be closer to May when we finally see him, and that's the thing- nobody here has actually ever seen him play (for us).
Last report I saw had him taking live BP last Sunday, with Cora saying he might start playing games in camp within 7-10 days (so soon, apparently). With the team leaving Ft Myers for Texas and then Seattle, it's not really a surprise that the media is no longer watching him all that closely.
 

CR67dream

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Speaking of injuries, what'the latest update on Grissom?
I know he was swinging the bat when the Sox broke camp, and is getting his time in at extended spring training at the Fort. I like the time and care they're taking, even if it means we don't see him for a few more weeks.
 

OCD SS

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Insane?

I think you're having a 2022 flashback. With either Grissom or Refsnyder healthy, there is no spot for Dalbec. Upgrading him wasn't, and isn't, any kind of priority.
Saying it wasn’t a priority makes it sound like something they were going to do, they just ran out of time while they were taking care of everything else. They had time to sort out a RHH back up to 1B/3B, and it looks like they just went with the cheapest option in keeping Dalbec.

…He's the epitome of a AAA player you keep for emergency depth. And he's being used that way.
Except that he isn’t being stashed in Worcester, he made the opening day roster. That speaks to a lack of planning, especially if Devers’ shoulder has been a problem for a few days. He’s the best option they have at this point, but that’s because they didn’t improve those roster spots.

After 2.5 years I don’t think he’s his is on the coaching staff for somehow failing him, this is who he is.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Saying it wasn’t a priority makes it sound like something they were going to do, they just ran out of time while they were taking care of everything else. They had time to sort out a RHH back up to 1B/3B, and it looks like they just went with the cheapest option in keeping Dalbec.



Except that he isn’t being stashed in Worcester, he made the opening day roster. That speaks to a lack of planning, especially if Devers’ shoulder has been a problem for a few days. He’s the best option they have at this point, but that’s because they didn’t improve those roster spots.

After 2.5 years I don’t think he’s his is on the coaching staff for somehow failing him, this is who he is.
It wasn't a priority because they liked the flexibility of being able to option him in Worcester. That's a hard thing to replicate via free agency and not exactly the easiest thing to trade for. The injuries to Grissom and Refsnyder are why he's on the 26-man presently.
 

Rovin Romine

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In addition to the above:

After 2.5 years I don’t think he’s his is on the coaching staff for somehow failing him, this is who he is.
The inference was that after 2.5 years, it's unlikely the same coaching staff now thinks they have a magic fix for him - i.e., he is what he is.
 

moondog80

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It wasn't a priority because they liked the flexibility of being able to option him in Worcester. That's a hard thing to replicate via free agency and not exactly the easiest thing to trade for. The injuries to Grissom and Refsnyder are why he's on the 26-man presently.
I get that the options are a good thing. But at some point you just have to say that someone is simply not a major league player, and all the options in the world don't make up for the fact that the guy is a1B who can't run and can't hit and can maybe play a D+/C- at 3B.

It's also worth noting that Justin Turner was dying to come back here and would have been perfect for this situation. Trade Yoshida and eat a little $ if you think he can't cut it in LF.
 

YTF

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Speaking of injuries, what'the latest update on Grissom? Can he walk? Is he able to swing? The lack of information about him makes me think it'll be closer to May when we finally see him, and that's the thing- nobody here has actually ever seen him play (for us).
According to Pete Abraham in the link below, Grissom is now participating in Baseball activities, will join the team at Fenway for the home opener and then head out for a rehab assignment. If all goes well probably mid-late April.
https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/baseball/news/red-soxs-vaughn-grissom-extended-spring-until-april-7/
 

jbupstate

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Are you actually saying Dalbec is getting an unfair shake?

He’s been horrible for 3 years now. He’s a horrible horrible hitter. It’s not like he’s just on some little
rut. He can’t his baseballs.

It was insane how easy it would have been to upgrade Dalbec and they just didn’t do it.
The bolded just isn’t true. Dalbec has had success against LHP in his career.

It’s unfortunate the Sox cannot utilize him properly.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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I get that the options are a good thing. But at some point you just have to say that someone is simply not a major league player, and all the options in the world don't make up for the fact that the guy is a1B who can't run and can't hit and can maybe play a D+/C- at 3B.

It's also worth noting that Justin Turner was dying to come back here and would have been perfect for this situation. Trade Yoshida and eat a little $ if you think he can't cut it in LF.
So trade Yoshida and re-sign a 39-year-old DH that can maybe play a passable 3B a few times a year just to avoid another year of having Dalbec on the shuttle? And that's really all it is, is one more year of Dalbec hanging around unless he finally figures it out. That seems a bit of overkill to me.

It would appear based on the moves he made this winter that one of Breslow's goals was to make the roster younger. He didn't pursue re-signing Turner or Duvall (or sign the 36 year old Solano that some here are agitating for). He traded away the oldest starter on the roster (Sale) and reportedly was listening on two other elder statesmen in the bullpen (Jansen and Martin). Maybe the thought/hope is that a younger roster might be a healthier roster? Dalbec for one more year on the shuttle bridges to guys like Meidroth and Sogard to take that spot makes some sense in that context, especially if the expectation is he spends way more time in Worcester than Boston.
 

Fishy1

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Well, I imagine it would be Vaughn Grissom at third, but I take your point.
As others pointed put, it's possible they'd put Rafaela over there some as well. O'Neill to center, Abreu to right. Point is, the team has options should Dalbec prove untenable.
 

Harry Hooper

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Speaking of injuries, what'the latest update on Grissom? Can he walk? Is he able to swing? The lack of information about him makes me think it'll be closer to May when we finally see him, and that's the thing- nobody here has actually ever seen him play (for us).

He's on the Grebeck rehab program in Florida, so no need to worry.




Why would you downgrade defense at 3 or 4 positions?
You'd be boosting the defense at 2B with a modest decline in CF defense. Hopefully Devers is back in short order.
 

nvalvo

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Speaking of injuries, what'the latest update on Grissom? Can he walk? Is he able to swing? The lack of information about him makes me think it'll be closer to May when we finally see him, and that's the thing- nobody here has actually ever seen him play (for us).
If I understood correctly, O'Brien said on the Opening Day broadcast that Grissom is back doing full baseball activities, but is more or less starting his Spring Training now. It sounds like the plan was for him to stay in extended Spring Training for the duration of the west coast swing, meet back up with the team in Boston for the Home Opener, and then go play some number of rehabs at Portland and Worcester to get a few dozen competitive at bats. So that sounds like a debut for the big club in the last third of April — barring any additional setbacks. As you say, closer to May.
 

HfxBob

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Poor boy. If only he had a $13.4 M player option he could have triggered.
Turning down that option triggered a $6.7 M buyout from the Red Sox, so the net benefit to him would only have been $6.7 M. Instead he got the $6.7 M plus $13 M from the Jays.
 

joe dokes

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Speaking of injuries, what'the latest update on Grissom? Can he walk? Is he able to swing? The lack of information about him makes me think it'll be closer to May when we finally see him, and that's the thing- nobody here has actually ever seen him play (for us).
From the Glob a few days ago:
The plan for Grissom
The plan for Vaughn Grissom is to stay in extended spring training until April 7, then rejoin the Red Sox at Fenway Park for the home opener before being assigned to a minor league team. He did not play in spring training because of a groin strain … O’Neill started his second consecutive game in right field and is ready for full-time defensive duty after being used cautiously during spring training because of a strained left calf
 

GB5

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This is on management not Dalbec. Bobby got less than 50 MLB last year, and the board acts like he sunk the season and unleashed typhoon fever.

Bobby is on this roster to get one start per week against a LHP, maybe an extra at bat or two during the week in a pinch hitting role against a lefty.

If he has some good at bats and Devers or Casas needs a day or two he has some experience at 1st and 3rd and can give you a day or two there.

He should not be playing against righties. I think he is in a tough mental spot at the plates.

If you want to get anything out of him he needs some consistent at bats against lefties. Maybe he starts to feel good about himself and you can give him some at bats against non gas throwing righties.

when you put him in against other teams equivalent # 1 starter and a righty like Kirby, and he struggles as did that rest of the team who had 11 other strikeouts and no runs, let’s not nuke the last guy on the roster for failing in a spot he shouldn’t be in.
 

simplicio

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This is on management not Dalbec. Bobby got less than 50 MLB last year, and the board acts like he sunk the season and unleashed typhoon fever.

Bobby is on this roster to get one start per week against a LHP, maybe an extra at bat or two during the week in a pinch hitting role against a lefty.

If he has some good at bats and Devers or Casas needs a day or two he has some experience at 1st and 3rd and can give you a day or two there.

He should not be playing against righties. I think he is in a tough mental spot at the plates.

If you want to get anything out of him he needs some consistent at bats against lefties. Maybe he starts to feel good about himself and you can give him some at bats against non gas throwing righties.

when you put him in against other teams equivalent # 1 starter and a righty like Kirby, and he struggles as did that rest of the team who had 11 other strikeouts and no runs, let’s not nuke the last guy on the roster for failing in a spot he shouldn’t be in.
You're right, it is on management. The only way Bobby should have sniffed the Boston roster should have been a capable MLB backup going on the IL or paternity list or something. That capable backup could have been procured this spring. Someone who's completely unable to hit RHP is not a capable backup because you can't control when you might need them and "once a week against a lefty" is a useless waste of a roster spot. Consistent ABs vs lefties is not a thing that exists.
 

absintheofmalaise

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Devers out again. This remains the darkest timeline.
Perhaps you should rend your garments so he doesn't go on the DL.
Obviously it's not ideal for him to be out, but let's wait and see if he's back in the line up over the next couple of days before we hit the panic button this early in the season.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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You're right, it is on management. The only way Bobby should have sniffed the Boston roster should have been a capable MLB backup going on the IL or paternity list or something. That capable backup could have been procured this spring. Someone who's completely unable to hit RHP is not a capable backup because you can't control when you might need them and "once a week against a lefty" is a useless waste of a roster spot. Consistent ABs vs lefties is not a thing that exists.
How about two guys going on the IL? Because that's exactly why Dalbec is on the roster right now. You really think he makes the OD roster if Refsnyder and Grissom are healthy? Ahead of Valdez or Rafaela or Abreu?
 

simplicio

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Unfortunately I do. If Ref was healthy Abreu would be in AAA, if Grissom was he'd be replacing Valdez. Despite years of mounting evidence that Bobby can't hit, they somehow failed to prioritize getting a corner backup who could. I'd say it's the greatest mark against Breslow so far.
 

Bigpupp

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Who is the 1B when Casas needs a break and Dalbec isn't on the roster? I'm sorry if I'm not seeing the obvious answer
 

simplicio

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That's the whole problem: they didn't get that guy. They tried Cron and he wasn't it, but then they seemingly stopped trying and went with Bobby.

They gave Ref and Reyes some innings there, but that covers an emergency basis or pinch hit situation, not a regular role.
 

GB5

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Schedule a day off for Casas when there is a lefty on the mound and put in Dalbec. Find another game against a lefty and let Dalbec take 3rd for Raffi. Bobby plays once per week or so vs lefties. That’s it.
 

Rovin Romine

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Turning down that option triggered a $6.7 M buyout from the Red Sox, so the net benefit to him would only have been $6.7 M. Instead he got the $6.7 M plus $13 M from the Jays.
Yes. But the point is that if JT was "desperate to come back" he had a way. He wasn't desperate to come back.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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If I were a GM I would be very warry of player opt outs. When do they benefit a team?
SoSH is like an evil version of Black and Scholes when it comes to contract options.

To answer seriously, options obviously have monetary value so the player variety (to be clear, this is where the player can exercise and benefit) lowers the overall cost of the contract for the club.

That said, we should probably have a thread discussing team and player options. It may finally be the topic that gets this board to truly go global.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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RFsnyder when he's active, other than that I think Reyes had been reported to have been working out at first.
Reyes played more games at 1B during spring training than Dalbec (9 to 8). Refsnyder did not play 1B at all. Ref as a possibility at first has always seemed to be a SoSH thing rather than reality. Reyes is the back-up 1B without Dalbec on the roster. When/if everyone's healthy, I envision the bench to be Reyes, Refsnyder, McGuire, and one of Abreu/Valdez/Rafaela.
 

YTF

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Reyes played more games at 1B during spring training than Dalbec (9 to 8). Refsnyder did not play 1B at all. Ref as a possibility at first has always seemed to be a SoSH thing rather than reality. Reyes is the back-up 1B without Dalbec on the roster. When/if everyone's healthy, I envision the bench to be Reyes, Refsnyder, McGuire, and one of Abreu/Valdez/Rafaela.
Yeah, RFsnyder's played 36 games at 1st with 27 starts. I could have sworn he played a couple of games there last year, but B Ref shows that he last played first in 2020.
 

simplicio

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Reyes played more games at 1B during spring training than Dalbec (9 to 8). Refsnyder did not play 1B at all. Ref as a possibility at first has always seemed to be a SoSH thing rather than reality. Reyes is the back-up 1B without Dalbec on the roster. When/if everyone's healthy, I envision the bench to be Reyes, Refsnyder, McGuire, and one of Abreu/Valdez/Rafaela.
https://nesn.com/2024/03/red-sox-outfielder-playing-new-position-to-increase-versatility/
Ref was working at first this spring. I'm not clear if it was in games or not.