Enes Kanter to Boston

bowiac

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That's it. Of course you could fiddle with numbers and add more guys, but that doesn't seem like a G-league player to me. Yes defensively could be very rough. But again, given what was available and the Celtics' budget constraints, how can anyone be THAT down on this move? What other options were objectively better?
Among guys possibly available at the room exception, I'd have rather have signed any of Khem Birch, Kyle O'Quinn, Joakim Noah, or Boban Marjanovic for instance. This is ignoring obviously unobtainable guys like Zubac, WCS, Boogie, or Looney. If Birch, O'Quinn, Noah, or Boban were likewise unobtainable, historic research indicates there are G-leaguers roughly as productive as Kanter (IOW - Kanter grades out as replacement level), although I'd have to do some digging to see who they are.

Kanter is pretty good offensively for a center, but he doesn't actually fit what the Celtics do on offense. He doesn't pass, and he doesn't space the floor, so a lot of what he creates on offense he gives back by constraining the ball movement and spacing of the rest of the team. And then on defense, he's an abomination, giving back all of his offensive contribution and then some.

It's fine. This signing doesn't matter, but this smells very much so of David Lee to me. "He's a good offensive player, and how bad could he be on defense...". We'll see.
 

BaseballJones

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Among guys possibly available at the room exception, I'd have rather have signed any of Khem Birch, Kyle O'Quinn, Joakim Noah, or Boban Marjanovic for instance. This is ignoring obviously unobtainable guys like Zubac, WCS, Boogie, or Looney. If Birch, O'Quinn, Noah, or Boban were likewise unobtainable, historic research indicates there are G-leaguers roughly as productive as Kanter (IOW - Kanter grades out as replacement level), although I'd have to do some digging to see who they are.

Kanter is pretty good offensively for a center, but he doesn't actually fit what the Celtics do on offense. He doesn't pass, and he doesn't space the floor, so a lot of what he creates on offense he gives back by constraining the ball movement and spacing of the rest of the team. And then on defense, he's an abomination, giving back all of his offensive contribution and then some.

It's fine. This signing doesn't matter, but this smells very much so of David Lee to me. "He's a good offensive player, and how bad could he be on defense...". We'll see.
I know there's tons of players in the NBA that I know very little about. But Khem Birch?

2018-19: 12.9 min, 4.8 points, 3.8 rebounds, with a worse DRating (106) than Kanter's (109)? At 26 years old on a lousy team only getting 12.9 minutes a game? That's the guy you'd rather have? Why?
 

Ale Xander

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I don't like player options in general, and am worried about police/security details he may require so no one gets Ortiz'ed.

That said, he's a fantastic interior scorer and rebounder. His defense is bad, but he's not a G-leaguer.

The winner in this deal though is probably Istanbullu and the greater Teele Square area.
 

nighthob

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I know there's tons of players in the NBA that I know very little about. But Khem Birch?

2018-19: 12.9 min, 4.8 points, 3.8 rebounds, with a worse DRating (106) than Kanter's (109)? At 26 years old on a lousy team only getting 12.9 minutes a game? That's the guy you'd rather have? Why?
You understand that the lower the DRat number the better, yes? So Birch is better defensively, albeit in short minutes.
 

JCizzle

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Among guys possibly available at the room exception, I'd have rather have signed any of Khem Birch, Kyle O'Quinn, Joakim Noah, or Boban Marjanovic for instance. This is ignoring obviously unobtainable guys like Zubac, WCS, Boogie, or Looney. If Birch, O'Quinn, Noah, or Boban were likewise unobtainable, historic research indicates there are G-leaguers roughly as productive as Kanter (IOW - Kanter grades out as replacement level), although I'd have to do some digging to see who they are.

Kanter is pretty good offensively for a center, but he doesn't actually fit what the Celtics do on offense. He doesn't pass, and he doesn't space the floor, so a lot of what he creates on offense he gives back by constraining the ball movement and spacing of the rest of the team. And then on defense, he's an abomination, giving back all of his offensive contribution and then some.

It's fine. This signing doesn't matter, but this smells very much so of David Lee to me. "He's a good offensive player, and how bad could he be on defense...". We'll see.
Wait, the corpse of Noah? That's surprising to me. I assumed he was totally cooked.
 

BaseballJones

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You understand that the lower the DRat number the better, yes? So Birch is better defensively, albeit in short minutes.
Nope, I didn't realize that. My bad. I thought that the higher the number in both OR and DR, the better. Kind of like ERA+ or OPS+. Ok I stand corrected. But either way, it's not MUCH better. There's a reason he only got 12.9 minutes a game, in his prime, on a bad team.
 

bowiac

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I know there's tons of players in the NBA that I know very little about. But Khem Birch?

2018-19: 12.9 min, 4.8 points, 3.8 rebounds, with a worse DRating (106) than Kanter's (109)? At 26 years old on a lousy team only getting 12.9 minutes a game? That's the guy you'd rather have? Why?
D-ratings work the opposite of that. Higher is worse, not better. But, yeah - he's someone I'd rather have. He grades pretty well defensively on a variety of metrics, and has a good foul rate (3.8 per 36 minutes), which suggests his PT can be extended further.

I don't want to belabor this, since again, my thesis is Kanter doesn't matter and will likely be off the roster sooner rather than later anyway, but it's not about any great love of Birch to be clear. It's more of a groan about how bad Kanter is.
 

nighthob

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Nope, I didn't realize that. My bad. I thought that the higher the number in both OR and DR, the better. Kind of like ERA+ or OPS+. Ok I stand corrected. But either way, it's not MUCH better. There's a reason he only got 12.9 minutes a game, in his prime, on a bad team.
The Rat numbers are an estimation of points/100 possessions, so on defense lower is better. And the reason for the short minutes were Vuvecic and Mo Bamba. So he is possibly an undervalued roleplayer at the moment.
 

Devizier

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Oliver’s dRTG is total garbage though. Not his fault just that it measures team defense almost completely and individual defense only very indirectly.
 

bowiac

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Nope, I didn't realize that. My bad. I thought that the higher the number in both OR and DR, the better. Kind of like ERA+ or OPS+. Ok I stand corrected. But either way, it's not MUCH better. There's a reason he only got 12.9 minutes a game, in his prime, on a bad team.
The reason he got 12.9 MPG is because he plays on a team with like three centers (Vucevic, Bamba, Isaac), and a SF/PF who is probably best as a small-ball center (Gordon).

FWIW, ORtg and DRtg aren't very good metrics relative to like RAPM or PIPM. Almost all of the fancy adjusted plus/minus metrics are down on Kanter, suggesting he doesn't help as much as you may think offensively, and hurts you more than you think defensively.
 

nighthob

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Oliver’s dRTG is total garbage though. Not his fault just that it measures team defense almost completely and individual defense only very indirectly.
I'm not arguing for its use, just pointing out that he was reading it backwards. I'd much prefer use of something like RAPM or DBPM for defensive evaluations.
 

CoffeeNerdness

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This board seems so down on TimeLord. : (

Well, I'm bullish on him regardless. Hopefully he shows up to camp having gained 25 lbs of muscle or in the best shape of his life™.
 

InstaFace

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Will always root for this guy. He has been outspoken about the repressive Turkish government and would most likely be killed if he returned to his homeland.
I share your affection for the guy's willingness to be a lightning rod over civil rights issues in Turkey, to afflict the comfortable and comfort the afflicted, and to remain courageous despite all the incredible shit he has to deal with.

(that article is good background if you're only peripherally familiar with the issue - and still a good story if you are, because it talks about him and how he's adjusted his life)
 

bowiac

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Wait, the corpse of Noah? That's surprising to me. I assumed he was totally cooked.
Noah's time as a starting center may be over, but he's remained somewhat effective while on the court. Going with him would require a lot of Theis minutes at the 5 I suspect. That's fine, but is a fair criticism of Noah if you don't think Theis can hold up to that.
 

Nator

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I expressed my displeasure in the offseason thread, but I agree with many of the posters here in regard to the length and money of the contract. Also, the cupboard was pretty much bare, and the Celtics need some guys taller than 6' 8".
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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If Enes Kanter was able to defend at all, there is no way he'd be sitting curb-side with the rest of the NBA trash for Portland to pick up heading into the playoffs (and to be fair to Kanter, he played his ass off for them with an extremely painful shoulder injury). And he certainly wouldn't be around on the cheap for the Celtics who are essentially shopping at the dollar store.

Fans will love the guy's offense and energy though. Who really knows these players outside of their inner circles but he strikes me, on balance, as a decent locker room guy.
 

bowiac

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This board seems so down on TimeLord. : (

Well, I'm bullish on him regardless. Hopefully he shows up to camp having gained 25 lbs of muscle or in the best shape of his life™.
I love Williams, and think he can develop into an impact guy. But I get wanting to bring him along slowly.
 

lostjumper

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I'm fine with it. Kanter was the best of the rest in my view. I know he's bad defensively, but several of the other names would force the C's to play 4v5 on the offensive end.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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This board seems so down on TimeLord. : (

Well, I'm bullish on him regardless. Hopefully he shows up to camp having gained 25 lbs of muscle or in the best shape of his life™.
I am bullish on him getting a lot of run to see what he's got. He looked terribly lost at various points last season as to be expected of a rookie big. Stevens won't have the luxury of a quick hook next year so he will get time and it is likely to be painful in spots as opposing teams try to target him. However, his development, if it happens will be something to look forward to next year.
 

Kliq

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This.

I mean, Embiid/Horford and Giannis etc. were going to have their way with the Celtics regardless of what flawed big they signed (Looney was never realistic for the money he will likely get paid).

People need to get over match-ups and understand what this team is next year - its a transition year to see what they have in the Js, Hayward, TimeLord and the rookies. They are highly unlikely to contend for anything so it really doesn't matter what "bigs" they have to match-up with anyone.
I'm a little more optimistic, if Kawhi leaves the division that really just leaves Milwaukee and Philly as the undisputed top teams in the East. An injury to Embiid/Giannis and the conference really is wide open. It's not impossible to believe that one of (or both) of the Js make a significant leap, Walker replaces Kyrie, Hayward is closer to the player he was in Utah and the team has way better chemistry and plays harder, and this team is significantly better than they were last season.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I'm a little more optimistic, if Kawhi leaves the division that really just leaves Milwaukee and Philly as the undisputed top teams in the East. An injury to Embiid/Giannis and the conference really is wide open. It's not impossible to believe that one of (or both) of the Js make a significant leap, Walker replaces Kyrie, Hayward is closer to the player he was in Utah and the team has way better chemistry and plays harder, and this team is significantly better than they were last season.
This can certainly happen but planning for it doesn't seem a sound strategy. I think people are sleeping on the Pacers too - they got much better (Brogdon and Warren are great additions), Toronto will still be deep even without Leonard, the Nets got better (even without Durant playing) and Miami arguably improved.

I would argue that the difference between Enes Kanter or some other bargain big isn't going to be what makes or breaks Boston's upcoming season but YRMV.
 

johnmd20

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This can certainly happen but planning for it doesn't seem a sound strategy. I think people are sleeping on the Pacers too - they got much better (Brogdon and Warren are great additions), Toronto will still be deep even without Leonard, the Nets got better (even without Durant playing) and Miami arguably improved.

I would argue that the difference between Enes Kanter or some other bargain big isn't going to be what makes or breaks Boston's upcoming season but YRMV.
How can you write that with a straight face?
 

OurF'ingCity

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Fans will love the guy's offense and energy though. Who really knows these players outside of their inner circles but he strikes me, on balance, as a decent locker room guy.
Blazers fans appear to be almost universal in their love for the guy despite the fact he only played for them a short while. I know that doesn't necessarily say anything about his actual basketball ability, but it does fit with what appears to be Ainge's overall strategy this year, which is to get scrappy, good-character guys on the team during this transition period when we wait to see how the J's develop and how Hayward comes back another year removed from his injury.
 

OurF'ingCity

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How can you write that with a straight face?
They were the number one seed the year before without Kawhi. Of course they had DeRozan on that team but regardless it's not at all implausible to suggest Toronto will be one of those teams fighting for the 6-3 seeds in the East. It's not like they are a lottery team without Kawhi.
 

Cellar-Door

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Would have preferred Holmes, but I can understand the appeal of Kanter's floor.

I wouldn't be surprised to see him paired with Yabu later in the year to get a player making close to 10M, like say Taj Gibson
 

lovegtm

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This can certainly happen but planning for it doesn't seem a sound strategy. I think people are sleeping on the Pacers too - they got much better (Brogdon and Warren are great additions), Toronto will still be deep even without Leonard, the Nets got better (even without Durant playing) and Miami arguably improved.

I would argue that the difference between Enes Kanter or some other bargain big isn't going to be what makes or breaks Boston's upcoming season but YRMV.
Yeah, agree. What makes or breaks them is J development and one of the young guys popping (TL, GWill, Langford). If you do internal development, you have to hit on one of those kind of guys at some point. Toronto had Siakam and Van Vleet, GSW had Draymond (and to some degree Klay), etc. Utah is a contender because they binked on Mitchell at 13 and Gobert at 27.
 

geoduck no quahog

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Or more to the point, whether he can travel to the Toronto away games.
Ramadan is April 24 - May 23 next year. Here's hoping for a lot of night games [/ducks/].

...Winning it all would be doubly sweet just to punch Erdogan in the nose.

(and his playing through that shoulder injury says a lot about character)
 

CoffeeNerdness

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Blazers fans appear to be almost universal in their love for the guy despite the fact he only played for them a short while. I know that doesn't necessarily say anything about his actual basketball ability, but it does fit with what appears to be Ainge's overall strategy this year, which is to get scrappy, good-character guys on the team during this transition period when we wait to see how the J's develop and how Hayward comes back another year removed from his injury.
This smells like the warm afterglow of a tremendous playoff run. I didn't catch all the Blazers games during the playoffs, but in the ones I saw, Kanter looked like just a body out there. Not sure why they'd be so attached to him.
 

bsj

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This board seems so down on TimeLord. : (

Well, I'm bullish on him regardless. Hopefully he shows up to camp having gained 25 lbs of muscle or in the best shape of his life™.
Not down on him, but think he is going to develop his D before his O, and like having a scorer at the spot. And like having Williams to plug in when defense is a premium
 

slamminsammya

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Why is the generalized opinion of another fan base relevant to how much he can help the Celtics? There are better ways to measure a player.
 

Jimbodandy

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I don't remember who here said it, but taking up space is the last skill to deteriorate. Kanter will take up space and be available as trade fodder. And frankly all of the other available bigs suck too.

That's what "talking yourself into Kanter" looks like, when done properly.
 

bsj

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I don't remember who here said it, but taking up space is the last skill to deteriorate. Kanter will take up space and be available as trade fodder. And frankly all of the other available bigs suck too.

That's what "talking yourself into Kanter" looks like, when done properly.
Im more high on him than most I guess. I think he can be a very good offensive player for the position, and can also be an above average rebounder. Yes, his man D is weak, but my hope is that by mid season, williams will be able to step into some more of those spots.
 

HomeRunBaker

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This smells like the warm afterglow of a tremendous playoff run. I didn't catch all the Blazers games during the playoffs, but in the ones I saw, Kanter looked like just a body out there. Not sure why they'd be so attached to him.
Kanter was really good for them after he came over from NY. They have a gaping whole once Nurkic went down but didn’t skip a beat with Kanter having a lot to prove. I don’t even know what “replacement level” looks like as a 5 in the NBA. Does that mean anyone cane simply be plugged into a matchup against a skilled and athletic 7-footer and do fine? That isn’t reality.
 

Jimbodandy

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Im more high on him than most I guess. I think he can be a very good offensive player for the position, and can also be an above average rebounder. Yes, his man D is weak, but my hope is that by mid season, williams will be able to step into some more of those spots.
Fwiw I also like his intensity. But I worry that CBS will have to pixellate Kanter on film when they're doing defensive work in the film room like Japanese porn, just so the Js and rooks don't develop bad habits by osmosis.
 

lovegtm

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Kanter was really good for them after he came over from NY. They have a gaping whole once Nurkic went down but didn’t skip a beat with Kanter having a lot to prove. I don’t even know what “replacement level” looks like as a 5 in the NBA. Does that mean anyone cane simply be plugged into a matchup against a skilled and athletic 7-footer and do fine? That isn’t reality.
Yeah, Denver and OKC aren’t exactly cupcakes, and he was playing big minutes and hurt.
 

GreenMonster49

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In OKC, Kantar turned his teammates--except, notably, for Durant--onto halal food. The best halal food on the road? Boston. The worst, Sacramento.
 

bsj

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He still can’t safely travel to Toronto, right?
I think you are correct. He thinks his citizenship will be done in 2021 so at least for year one of this deal, he's staying in Boston for those games (unless something has / does change). This being said, REALLY hope we dont draw them in the playoffs
 

Lazy vs Crazy

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I'm fine with picking up the starting center from a team that made it to the Western Conference Final last year. He played over 30 minutes a game in that run.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I think you are correct. He thinks his citizenship will be done in 2021 so at least for year one of this deal, he's staying in Boston for those games (unless something has / does change). This being said, REALLY hope we dont draw them in the playoffs