Zach Lowe talking about Grant as a major acquisition by the Mavs all fall has been blowing my mind.
Derrick White, playoff alpha
- Thread starter benhogan
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I listen to Lowe a lot. I disagree with this take on his take. Seems like he has been saying that it is an important acquisition, for they need a 3 and D guy, but I didn't take it as him calling it a slam dunk or anything
Yeah, what I got from Lowe talking about Williams on the Mavs is that he thinks that Dallas is painfully thin behind Luka and Kyrie - their depth chart lists two rookies as starters - so just managing to get someone who is an actual NBA player is quite a big deal for them.
The Mavs have been incredibly inept in surrounding Luka with players that enhance his talent.
Grant is a good fit as a complementary player and the deal was very reasonable. I don't blame them for celebrating.
As far as ranking him ahead of Derrick White, that's the level of ESPN basketball intelligentsia these days. JJ Redick & a handful of others are stuck on a sinking ship.
Note: ESPN's NBArank panel, composed of nearly 150 reporters, editors, producers and analysts, were asked to rank players based on their predicted contributions -- quality and quantity -- for the 2023-24 season only.
Grant is a good fit as a complementary player and the deal was very reasonable. I don't blame them for celebrating.
As far as ranking him ahead of Derrick White, that's the level of ESPN basketball intelligentsia these days. JJ Redick & a handful of others are stuck on a sinking ship.
Note: ESPN's NBArank panel, composed of nearly 150 reporters, editors, producers and analysts, were asked to rank players based on their predicted contributions -- quality and quantity -- for the 2023-24 season only.
Have you seen the rest of the Mavs roster? Grant immediately became one of their most important players.
Some of that 150 includes Ramona Shelburne, Dave McMenamin, Ohm Youngmusik and other “reporters” who basically don’t understand basketball and just parrot what Lakers/Clippers executives tell them.
I shudder to think of what their 150 look like. I’m guessing McMenamin had Jarrod Vanderbilt comfortably inside the top 10. Shelburne probably had Kobe at 1 and Jeannie Buss at 2
Shelburne is indeed a total Laker sycophant but she does know basketball—unlike the other two you mentioned.
And to be fair to Williams - which doesn't happen all the time on these boards - he's fantastic in that role.
You could squint and see how having a wizard with the ball (Kyrie) and a guy that collapses defenses (Luka) could push a perimeter 3 and D player like Williams into a higher tier.
I mean, I don't think that, but I could understand how people that didn't watch him consistently might. I had hoped when he started to develop that baseline drive from the corner a few years ago, that it was the start of something good for him. It never improved, he gets swallowed up too easily because of his height and speed, can't take guys off the dribble, and has pretty weak finishing.
Williams is a solid role player on a good team, but if he's your 3rd or 4th best player, you're in for a long season.
White outside of the top 100 (and LOL behind Grant) is obviously nonsensical. ESPN would be better off just saying they forgot about him.
I can’t find the tweet but saw a conglomerate ranking from 6 or 7 sites had DW ranked #65. Fairly reasonable, maybe even still a little light on him.
Though if it included the non ranked ESPN list, he’s probably inside the top 60 when you average all their other inputs.
I can’t find the tweet but saw a conglomerate ranking from 6 or 7 sites had DW ranked #65. Fairly reasonable, maybe even still a little light on him.
Though if it included the non ranked ESPN list, he’s probably inside the top 60 when you average all their other inputs.
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Go to minute 3. JJ goes off, needless to say, he believes White is a TOP50 NBA player.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_jgi4RhJUg
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_jgi4RhJUg
Literally just finished that clip and was coming to post. What a dumb system for figuring out the top 100. It would be so much smarter to put players in tiers of 10-25 players and tell them to rank that group. If someone feels like a player really shouldn't be it that tier, up or down, then they can write that in and say where they think they should rank. Or have a pool of say 15 you start with, and when you rate one player, another player is added to the pool using loose ratings. So dumb
Yea, their approach sounds like they have reporters, editors, producers and analysts who don't really understand or care about the product.
JJ claims they were "trolling". I guess it's not completely shocking, the mainstream media is utter garbage.
Their job isn’t to create accurate and sound analysis. It’s to generate clicks/viewership. Mission accomplished.
The news making the rounds today is that the Celts are talking to White about an extension. There actually appears to be little on the news front, except if something is going to happen, it has to happen by Oct. 23, or talks will have to wait for the end of the season.
So what would we pay for a White extension? Could we get him 4/$90m? Or as much as 4/$100m? These will be his years in his early 30s, but by all indications, he looks like he'll age well.
So what would we pay for a White extension? Could we get him 4/$90m? Or as much as 4/$100m? These will be his years in his early 30s, but by all indications, he looks like he'll age well.
Honestly, I think JJ is actually trying to stick up for them or make it look better. When someone’s “trolling” they know better but are doing things to get a rise out of people.
I think the much more likely explanation is that a decent amount of the 150 are fucking idiots who don’t watch or care about basketball
There was an interview he did at the start of August talking about an extension. White was quoted saying “I love being here in Boston. It would be cool to get an extension”
https://www.bostonherald.com/2023/08/01/derrick-white-talks-new-role-with-celtics-potential-contract-extension-i-love-it-here/
Now any searches come back mostly about today's talks, but I'm guessing this has been discussed for a while. Those numbers sound right, he'd get a decent raise and the added contract security. He also doesn't come across as the kind of guy that bases his worth on the value of his contract. That's not to say he doesn't deserve a raise, he absolutely does, but I think as long as it's in the ballpark of similar players he's going to be fine with the terms. I also think that you do it now because if Jrue wants an extension, one of the big five will have to go, but I'm not going to open that can of worms in this thread of who's staying, what happens and why ha
Exactly. JJ can't come out and say the ESPN "experts" are clueless. He has to say they meant to do that. Everyone knows ESPN is there "to generate clicks/viewership" by messing with controversial/click-bait players like Derrick White
JJ was completely exasperated/embarrassed by his colleagues.
One of the Tech companies is going to grab a lot of the broadcasting rights and ESPN will continue to fadeway.
Malika Andrews is on her way to being the next Martha Quinn.
DW has two years left on his contract so max extension is 3 years. 140% raise would be $27M-ish starting salary on the extension. CsBlog says max extension right now is 3/$85M, which seems like a good deal for Cs.. I haven't checked the math.
https://www.celticsblog.com/2023/10/6/23904083/when-are-contract-extension-deadlines-for-derrick-white-payton-pritchard-boston-celtics-brad-stevens
Unlikely source to add to the DW love: D’Angelo Russell.
https://theathletic.com/4968732/2023/10/17/dangelo-russell-lakers-derrick-white-celtics/?source=user_shared_article
https://theathletic.com/4968732/2023/10/17/dangelo-russell-lakers-derrick-white-celtics/?source=user_shared_article
100000%...you're not riling up the average fan by not putting Derrick White in the top 100. They don't care to that level. It's basically just showing a level of incompetence to people that actually watch and care about the product.....you know, the thing that we expect from the votersExactly. JJ can't come out and say the ESPN "experts" are clueless. He has to say they meant to do that. Everyone knows ESPN is there "to generate clicks/viewership" by messing with controversial/click-bait players like Derrick White
JJ was completely exasperated/embarrassed by his colleagues.
One of the Tech companies is going to grab a lot of the broadcasting rights and ESPN will continue to fadeway.
Malika Andrews is on her way to being the next Martha Quinn.
He's talked about it a lot: it symbolizes the darkness inside what was his heart, after being snubbed by ESPN.
Hook this right up to my veins:
View: https://twitter.com/JaredWeissNBA/status/1718104683800088846?s=20
This team has it.
View: https://twitter.com/JaredWeissNBA/status/1718104683800088846?s=20
This team has it.
Those two pushing each other to be the better defender .... reason #245 to be bullish about this season.
early Derrick White offensive highlight reel
buttery 3pt stroke, 58% so far... after going 50/110 in the playoffs (45.5%)
https://www.celticsblog.com/2023/11/3/23943194/three-leaf-clover-jaylen-brown-impacting-winning-derrick-white-point-guard-bench-payton-pritchard
buttery 3pt stroke, 58% so far... after going 50/110 in the playoffs (45.5%)
https://www.celticsblog.com/2023/11/3/23943194/three-leaf-clover-jaylen-brown-impacting-winning-derrick-white-point-guard-bench-payton-pritchard
Yeah, we'll see how it looks then.
Although, tbh, both the Celtics and Sixers will look so different in April (in terms of play style and chemistry) that I don't pay much attention at all to these early results.
Harris and Oubre have been playing out of their minds on both ends of the floor with how the former matches up with multiple frontcourt positions continuing to be undervalued. The team defense seems to be on point with Oubre/Batum replacing Harden/Shake too.
It looks like Maxey is making a big leap. Can't hurt to be rid of the Harden distraction either.
As JTT says, it's Maxey. His USG% has basically stayed the same (24.1% to 24.8%); his TO% has dropped from 7.4% to 4.5% while his Asst% has gone from 16.9% to 31.2%.
He's really taken a leap but let's see how he adapts as defenses start to game plan for him. Also, I think he's a lot better in transition than in the half-court, which might be a problem for PHI come playoff time.
His ability to do what he is doing without turning the ball over is pretty remarkable. If sustainable it makes stopping him pretty damn difficult.
7/12 for 27pts and +defense on Maxey last night
This dude needs a bump (especially since Jordan Walsh is on a similar post-level )
I tell my kid to focus on Derrick White more than any other Celtic when watching games.
White is a plus Defender in the halfcourt, gets back in transition on D, always looking to push pace on offense,
and does 3 things in the half-court offense:
1. Immediate catch and shoot 3s (43% on the season after shooting 38% last season and 47.5% in the playoffs). He worked hard on his 3pt shot a summer ago and now owns a confident stroke.
2. Quick ball movement to an open teammate (4.6 asst/1.3 TO). Taken from his Spurs days of .5 second offense.
3. Advances the ball towards the rim with dribble penetration if he has a matchup advantage. This leads to a floater/layup OR draws a double, kicks out to the 3pt line (last nights Tatum step in 3, wide-open dagger)
It's not a shock this team looked like crap when he was out and rusty from post-birth.
This dude needs a bump (especially since Jordan Walsh is on a similar post-level
)I tell my kid to focus on Derrick White more than any other Celtic when watching games.
White is a plus Defender in the halfcourt, gets back in transition on D, always looking to push pace on offense,
and does 3 things in the half-court offense:
1. Immediate catch and shoot 3s (43% on the season after shooting 38% last season and 47.5% in the playoffs). He worked hard on his 3pt shot a summer ago and now owns a confident stroke.
2. Quick ball movement to an open teammate (4.6 asst/1.3 TO). Taken from his Spurs days of .5 second offense.
3. Advances the ball towards the rim with dribble penetration if he has a matchup advantage. This leads to a floater/layup OR draws a double, kicks out to the 3pt line (last nights Tatum step in 3, wide-open dagger)
It's not a shock this team looked like crap when he was out and rusty from post-birth.
He’s the best guy on the team at the 0.5 second style, which is not just about passing but also just making an immediate decision of what to do, be it pass, shoot, or drive.7/12 for 27pts and +defense on Maxey last night
This dude needs a bump (especially since Jordan Walsh is on a similar post-level
I tell my kid to focus on Derrick White more than any other Celtic when watching games.
White is a plus Defender in the halfcourt, gets back in transition on D, always looking to push pace on offense,
and does 3 things in the half-court offense:
1. Immediate catch and shoot 3s (43% on the season after shooting 38% last season and 47.5% in the playoffs). He worked hard on his 3pt shot a summer ago and now owns a confident stroke.
2. Quick ball movement to an open teammate (4.6 asst/1.3 TO). Taken from his Spurs days of .5 second offense.
3. Advances the ball towards the rim with dribble penetration if he has a matchup advantage. This leads to a floater/layup OR draws a double, kicks out to the 3pt line (last nights Tatum step in 3, wide-open dagger)
It's not a shock this team looked like crap when he was out and rusty from post-birth.
The other good thing we have been seeing from him is some understanding of how to manipulate the defense. There have been a few plays where, in retrospect, it looked like he was probably planning to pass the entire time, but made a move to draw a defender to him before he made the pass.
That type of thing falls in the 0.5 seconds category, too. Get th ball, immediate pass to Tatum obviously does. But, get the ball, pull Tatum’s defender over and then pass to him does, also, as it is also an immediate decision.
Yep, he dribbles and draws with purpose. He doesn't waste shot clock, or let the defense dig in with between-the-leg dribble exhibitions 32' away from the basket.
Where I'd rank him on Celtic importance would send the Cellar into a tizzy, so I'll keep it to myself.
One of my favorite NBA quotes of all time is one that I still use as a fun framework for comparing players. It was David Aldridge during the '08 Finals musing that if Kevin Garnett was 6'1" he would be Rajon Rondo, but if Lamar Odom were Rondo's size he would be a shoe salesman. Harsh on Odom but a good quote.
Anyways, if Derrick White were 6'10" he would be Al Horford. Same kind of full-court awareness, calmness with the ball, always making the right decision.
Edit: Misspoke, it was Thorpe not Aldridge.
Anyways, if Derrick White were 6'10" he would be Al Horford. Same kind of full-court awareness, calmness with the ball, always making the right decision.
Edit: Misspoke, it was Thorpe not Aldridge.
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D White with a nice bounce back game in Philly, putting up 27 points on only 12 shots, going 4-8 from deep. He made a bunch of plays when Philly would get on a run, and was aggressive enough to be awarded 10 FTs, the first time he shot double figure free throws in a game as a Celtic. This after putting up only 19 points on 18 shots in the earlier loss, when he went only 3-11 from three.
White (and Jrue) have the size, strength, and ability to torture smaller covers, and White hasn’t hesitated to drive the ball this season.
White (and Jrue) have the size, strength, and ability to torture smaller covers, and White hasn’t hesitated to drive the ball this season.
Funny. Last night they made reference to Horford as a "generational winner". "Won everywhere, Florida Nat Championships etc etc".
My immediate thought was "yea he is like Derrick White (or Derrick is like him)."
Now on the face they are nothing alike, DW has not "won everywhere" on a below avg Spurs and Colorado Springs Seminfinal loss in'15 , a 19-15 Buffs in 2016 etc etc. But the "Substance" of their games I guess.
TLDR: You guys nailed it better then I did last night.
I pinch myself at how good this trade was. Derrick White for Josh Richardson, Romeo Langford, a 2022 first-round pick and a 2028 first-round pick swap.