Celtics Sign Tacko Fall

Big John

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I think the point is that players have no choice but to look to Europe (or China) if NBA teams aren't even willing to offer them a minimum contract. It's either that or sit around and hope you get a call when someone on another team gets injured or traded, but then you're not making any money in that period.
Well, yes. But the Celtics have an open roster spot and money to spend. The argument was, that if a guy like Faried were offered the minimum, he wouldn't come because there wouldn't be enough playing time.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Well, yes. But the Celtics have an open roster spot and money to spend. The argument was, that if a guy like Faried were offered the minimum, he wouldn't come because there wouldn't be enough playing time.
What is the allure of a player like Faried for the Celtics? He isn't really a big - he is wing-sized but he isn't really a wing in his attributes. I wouldn't be surprised if the guy's career is largely done - his value when he was younger was that of an "energy player". He is going to be 30 years old and has a lot of milage on his tires.

Even if he were willing to join the team for the minimum and sit on the end of the bench, do you really want a guy like him taking minutes away from younger players who may have more upside for the Celtics? Or are you predicating your view on the idea that the Celtics are going to be in contention to come out of the East and need a veteran presence? Have you looked at what the metrics say about his value - he is essentially the definition of league average.

Again, if Faried is taking significant "big" minutes for a team, they are likely in a unique situation like the Rockets were this past year, or they need a body. For where I sit, neither applies to Boston.
 

lovegtm

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What is the allure of a player like Faried for the Celtics? He isn't really a big - he is wing-sized but he isn't really a wing in his attributes. I wouldn't be surprised if the guy's career is largely done - his value when he was younger was that of an "energy player". He is going to be 30 years old and has a lot of milage on his tires.

Even if he were willing to join the team for the minimum and sit on the end of the bench, do you really want a guy like him taking minutes away from younger players who may have more upside for the Celtics? Or are you predicating your view on the idea that the Celtics are going to be in contention to come out of the East and need a veteran presence? Have you looked at what the metrics say about his value - he is essentially the definition of league average.

Again, if Faried is taking significant "big" minutes for a team, they are likely in a unique situation like the Rockets were this past year, or they need a body. For where I sit, neither applies to Boston.
Yeah, if Faried’s agent is waiting around for the Celtics to call, Faried needs to make him his ex-agent fast.
 

Big John

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Yeah, if Faried’s agent is waiting around for the Celtics to call, Faried needs to make him his ex-agent fast.
Well sure, but that's a separate issue. The question is, if Ainge calls, why wouldn't Faried come?
And to respond to DeJesus' point, why would you give Grant Williams minutes if Faried were a better player, assuming that you are trying to win as many games as possible? It goes back to my earlier question: do you view this team as one willing to sacrifice wins to develop youngsters, or a team with a puncher's chance to win the EC? And if your answer is to develop the youngsters, don't tell Kemba, because that's not why he says he came here.
 
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DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Well sure, but that's a separate issue. The question is, if Ainge calls, why wouldn't Faried come?
And to respond to DeJesus' point, why would you give Grant Williams minutes if Faried were a better player, assuming that you are trying to win as many games as possible? It goes back to my earlier question: do you view this team as one willing to sacrifice wins to develop youngsters, or a team with a puncher's chance to win the EC? And if your answer is to develop the youngsters, don't tell Kemba, because that's not why he says he came here.
I don't know what Grant Williams is capable of producing this year but if you think that the delta between those two in deep rotation or garbage minutes is the difference between coming out of the East or not, I don't know what to say. And if Kemba Walker actually believes that as well Boston likely has bigger issues than which player should take the last roster spot.

Curious though - have you looked at Faried's stats or actually watched him play over the past few seasons?
 

lovegtm

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I don't know what Grant Williams is capable of producing this year but if you think that the delta between those two in deep rotation or garbage minutes is the difference between coming out of the East or not, I don't know what to say. And if Kemba Walker actually believes that as well Boston likely has bigger issues than which player should take the last roster spot.

Curious though - have you looked at Faried's stats or actually watched him play over the past few seasons?
Not to mention that we know exactly what Faried’s upside is: it’s who he is now, a guy who is fighting to maybe be a 15th man.

Grant Williams has a lot more positive variance.

We really need the season to start lol
 

Big John

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Curious though - have you looked at Faried's stats or actually watched him play over the past few seasons?
Yes, and Faried played extremely well in limited minutes last year. To quote from SBNation: "Since joining the Rockets, Faried is playing 93 percent of his minutes at center, after never playing more than 26 percent of his minutes there in a season before. That position change has coincided with a resurgence in his production, as his 14.3 points and 9.5 rebounds on 60.5 percent shooting in over 30 minutes a night thus far in Houston would all constitute career highs if they held long term. "

But Faried is just an example. All of the veterans who are still available have positives to contribute. They wouldn't be veteran NBA players if they did not.

If you don't think Grant Williams is a good as Kenneth Faried, why should the Celtics forcefeed him NBA minutes? Let him get minutes in Maine. And it may be that Williams becomes a better player by going against Faried or another veteran NBA big every day in practice.
 

DJnVa

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He’s not going to improve with random practices against Faried then playing in Maine. He’s gonna improve by playing NBA games against NBA athletes.
 

Big John

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He’s not going to improve with random practices against Faried then playing in Maine. He’s gonna improve by playing NBA games against NBA athletes.
That's speculation. So, how much will Willaims improve in "random practices" against Tacko Fall, if that's how Ainge elects to use the roster spot?
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Yes, and Faried played extremely well in limited minutes last year. To quote from SBNation: "Since joining the Rockets, Faried is playing 93 percent of his minutes at center, after never playing more than 26 percent of his minutes there in a season before. That position change has coincided with a resurgence in his production, as his 14.3 points and 9.5 rebounds on 60.5 percent shooting in over 30 minutes a night thus far in Houston would all constitute career highs if they held long term. "

But Faried is just an example. All of the veterans who are still available have positives to contribute. They wouldn't be veteran NBA players if they did not.

If you don't think Grant Williams is a good as Kenneth Faried, why should the Celtics forcefeed him NBA minutes? Let him get minutes in Maine. And it may be that Williams becomes a better player by going against Faried or another veteran NBA big every day in practice.
You do realize that SBNation post is essentially the equivalent of one of our posts here, right? Its spinning Faried's Rockets small sample size, tanking-season stats favorably. More to the point, you need to ask why Faried is available and so cheap if he can "impact wins". The answer is that his skill set is not great, he is very undersized and is in decline.

I will be clear - this is a "bridge year" for the Celtics imho. I would strongly prefer for the team to play the youngsters and if it costs them regular season wins and playoff seeding, so be it. We don't need to debate their prospects for competing but imho they have no realistic shot at reaching the ECF and even if its a 25% chance, I would prefer that they not get there at the expense of being able to evaluate their young players.

Back to Fall, I get his appeal because he is different and fun. However I will be surprised if he is even on the Celtics if/when he finally becomes playable in the league.

Standard caveat is that I hope I am terribly wrong with all of the above - I will gladly welcome Manimal being signed and then being an impactful player who helps propel the Celtics to the Finals next spring while Fall develops into the next great big on both ends of the floor.
 

benhogan

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But Faried is just an example. All of the veterans who are still available have positives to contribute. They wouldn't be veteran NBA players if they did not.

If you don't think Grant Williams is a good as Kenneth Faried, why should the Celtics forcefeed him NBA minutes? Let him get minutes in Maine. And it may be that Williams becomes a better player by going against Faried or another veteran NBA big every day in practice.
This is similar to the discussion we had in early July after the Celtics signed Kemba. mcpickl was speculating that Yabu was part of the Rozier S&T. We were throwing names against the wall (Vonleh, Cook, etc) for that potential open roster spot. I recall you being uninterested in adding talent then, why now?

I agree Faried could add value if the team was beset with injuries in the frontcourt. BUT this teams end of the bench is being built cheap (HRB's point) with an eye towards the future (TL, Grant, Semi, Fall) as pointed out by DBMH above.
 

Big John

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I will be clear - this is a "bridge year" for the Celtics imho. I would strongly prefer for the team to play the youngsters and if it costs them regular season wins and playoff seeding, so be it.
I don't know if it's a bridge year or not. But if it is, why not just tank? Maybe the "process" will lead to the next Jahlil Okafor.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I don't know if it's a bridge year or not. But if it is, why not just tank? Maybe the "process" will lead to the next Jahil Okafor.
I am unclear on what your view is here. How many wins do you think that a Faried or Jerebko would mean for the Celtics versus their current roster? And are you able to support that view or is it simply based on what you think/feel. As I have noted, RPM and PIPM have both as negative value players. I don't know if that is exactly right but I think if anything, calling them neutral is fairly generous.

Its really hard to make the case that signing one of these guys means the difference between the finals and tanking.
 
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Big John

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My view is that if they are paying Kemba $141M over 4 years they ought to try to win as many games as possible while he's here. Would a player like Faried make a difference? Who knows? If Grant Williams outplays him, you are out $2.1M. No big deal.

The one thing I am certain of is that Tacko Fall won't produce any more wins in Boston this year. Maybe he'll help in Maine, but I'm not wasting that open roster spot on him.
 

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Yes, and Faried played extremely well in limited minutes last year. To quote from SBNation: "Since joining the Rockets, Faried is playing 93 percent of his minutes at center, after never playing more than 26 percent of his minutes there in a season before. That position change has coincided with a resurgence in his production, as his 14.3 points and 9.5 rebounds on 60.5 percent shooting in over 30 minutes a night thus far in Houston would all constitute career highs if they held long term. "

But Faried is just an example. All of the veterans who are still available have positives to contribute. They wouldn't be veteran NBA players if they did not.

If you don't think Grant Williams is a good as Kenneth Faried, why should the Celtics forcefeed him NBA minutes? Let him get minutes in Maine. And it may be that Williams becomes a better player by going against Faried or another veteran NBA big every day in practice.
Maybe we are discussing two different things. The Farieds and Jerebkos out there can provide depth to a team......but they are going to be signed to play or be on the fringe of a rotation spot once an injury occurs. These guys AREN’T being signed as 15th men while being paid as much as 5x effective including tax payment in many cases. Some teams aren’t even investing the min plus tax in their 15th men.....I forgot who just announced they were going with 14 to start the year.

In most cases these type players are better off waiting until the ASB/trade deadline to see where they can best find a role rather than toiling in obscurity overseas.
 

DJnVa

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My view is that if they are paying Kemba $141M over 4 years they ought to try to win as many games as possible while he's here. v
Sure, but 2 questions:

How many wins difference do you think there is between Faried and Williams?

And even if Faried outplays him, don't you think it's better for the Celtics future if Williams gets those minutes?
 
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Big John

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Well, we are discussing how best to use that 15th roter spot. Tacko Fall or a veteran big man?
Tax payments aren't an issue for the Celtics, so why are you even bringing that up?

As for Faried vs Williams, that's up to Williams, yes?
 

DJnVa

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Well, we are discussing how best to use that 15th roter spot. Tacko Fall or a veteran big man?
What you're missing is that a guy like Faried won't sign here to be the 15th man. If he signs he's getting minutes. Minutes that would work better going to Grant.

While the roster spot might be vet vs Fall, the minutes are vet vs. Williams*
 

Jimbodandy

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Faried talk makes me wistful for the Luol Deng thread from last offseason.

I'd rather leave the 15th spot open than sign Faried or Jerebko, just on the off chance that someone takes developmental minutes away from one of the guys who may have an NBA future.
 

Big John

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What you're missing is that a guy like Faried won't sign here to be the 15th man. If he signs he's getting minutes. Minutes that would work better going to Grant.
I addressed that a few posts back. Will Faried take $2.1M from an NBA team or head overseas?
 

DJnVa

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I addressed that a few posts back. Will Faried take $2.1M from an NBA team or head overseas?
You're not really addressing it though.

A vet like Faried will want to play. The Celtics will not want to have him play over someone like Williams even if Faried might be better this season. Signing him over Tacko doesn't mean his minutes come at Tacko's expense.
 

Big John

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A vet like Faried won't get rotation minutes unless he goes overseas. Teams like Memhis and Phoenix won't want him because they need to develop their young players. A contencer might want him, but those fanchises have full rosters and/or luxury tax issues. What Faried wants and what he gets may be two different things.

And let me ask for the third time: are this year's Celtics trying to win as many games as possible or are we on a "bridge year?" If the latter, then tank.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Well, we are discussing how best to use that 15th roter spot. Tacko Fall or a veteran big man?
Tax payments aren't an issue for the Celtics, so why are you even bringing that up?

As for Faried vs Williams, that's up to Williams, yes?
Because the only way Faried agrees to sign here is with guaranteed playing time. He isn’t going to sign to be a 15th man and not dress nor would be pay him over $2m for that role. So do you want to sign him to be a part of your rotation?
 

Big John

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The currently unsigned vets aren't getting guaranteed playing time anywhere in the NBA. They can get it in China or Europe for less money. For a guy looking for one or two more modest NBA paydays, overseas is not the preferred option.
 

benhogan

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A vet like Faried won't get rotation minutes unless he goes overseas. Teams like Memhis and Phoenix won't want him because they need to develop their young players. A contencer might want him, but those fanchises have full rosters and/or luxury tax issues. What Faried wants and what he gets may be two different things.

And let me ask for the third time: are this year's Celtics trying to win as many games as possible or are we on a "bridge year?" If the latter, then tank.
It's really not that binary. Faried or a talent like him can be attained pretty easily during the season. Poirier could be a younger, bigger, better version of "manimal". Right now it feels like #15 is between Fall, Green, Waters, Strus. All are probably destined for Maine regardless.

Just note, a Brad Stevens team has never tanked, especially a team with this much talent. They have made the EC Finals twice with less. So take tank completely out of the discussion to start the season, plus tanking isn't what it once was with draft lottery rules.

As presently constructed no one is saying Celtics 2020 NBA Championship contender. BUT I see Danny aggressively making trades in season. If he gets us a Myles Turner or Domantas Sabonis after Dec 15th, and Hayward is effective at the 4, I like the C's chances to win the EC (with or without Kenneth Faried ;)).
 

HomeRunBaker

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The currently unsigned vets aren't getting guaranteed playing time anywhere in the NBA. They can get it in China or Europe for less money. For a guy looking for one or two more modest NBA paydays, overseas is not the preferred option.
Right.

This is what happens to players every year. Teams don’t want to guarantee minutes to a marginal vet and the marginal vet doesn’t want to ride the pine. They either go overseas or wait for a call that may or may not come. This is why someone like Monta Ellis was out of the league at 31 or something like that. It happens to dozens of players each year because they choose not to go overseas.
 

Big John

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If Ainge wants to make a big trade after 12/15 he's in a better position if he has Faried (or a similar veteran) than if he has Tacko Fall.
The issue is Fall vs an NBA veteran. If folks here would rather have fall because it's a "transition year" or some such nonsense, I respectfully disagree.
 

HomeRunBaker

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If Ainge wants to make a big trade after 12/15 he's in a better position if he has Faried (or a similar veteran) than if he has Tacko Fall.
The issue is Fall vs an NBA veteran. If folks here would rather have fall because it's a "transition year" or some such nonsense, I respectfully disagree.
That decision had already been made. If Ainge wanted to pay a vet $2m+ to sit on the bench he’d have never waived Yabusele. The other issue is that Faried wouldn’t sign here to not play.
 

Big John

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I'd like to think he waived Yabu because he was an embarrassment to the franchise. It takes some doing to be the worst player in all of Summer league.
 

benhogan

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If Ainge wants to make a big trade after 12/15 he's in a better position if he has Faried (or a similar veteran) than if he has Tacko Fall.
The issue is Fall vs an NBA veteran. If folks here would rather have fall because it's a "transition year" or some such nonsense, I respectfully disagree.
No, I want Fall because he has more upside and is a unique player. Theis and Poirier are probably better than Faried at the moment, so where is he going to get minutes?

The Celtics have plenty of filler/ballast now (see Center position). The money difference between #15 contract (if Fall, Waters or other youngsters) and Faried won't make enough of a difference.

And the counterparty would probably want a youngster instead of a 30yr old vet, so the package would be better with a Tre Waters than Faried
 
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DJnVa

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The Celtics have plenty of filler/ballast now (see Center position). The money difference between #15 contract (if Fall, Waters or other youngsters) and Faried won't make enough of a difference.

And the counterparty would probably want a youngster instead of a 30yr old vet, so the package would be better with a Tre Waters than Faried
I was kidding.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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A vet like Faried won't get rotation minutes unless he goes overseas. Teams like Memhis and Phoenix won't want him because they need to develop their young players. A contencer might want him, but those fanchises have full rosters and/or luxury tax issues. What Faried wants and what he gets may be two different things.

And let me ask for the third time: are this year's Celtics trying to win as many games as possible or are we on a "bridge year?" If the latter, then tank.
You're basically making two things binary that are not binary.

(1) Tacko v. vet big man and (2) winning as many games as possible versus tanking.

As for (1), the Cs are coming into training camp with 14 guaranteed contracts, one partially guaranteed contracts (Green), two players on 2-way contracts (Waters and Strus), and one player on an Exhibit 10 contract (Tacko). While unlikely, it's possible that they use the last spot on one of Green or Waters - particularly Waters in case Tacko shows well and they want to convert him to a two-way contract. In that case, I'd rather they leave the spot open.

As for (2), I don't understand why you are fixated between winning as many games as possible this year versus tanking. The Cs only need to get into the playoffs. They can focus on developing their young players - which includes the rookies - and my guess is that they win 40+ games and get into the playoffs. Virtually every team in the East added talent before the playoffs; there is no reason why the Cs should fill out their roster with a veteran at this point. Assuming J and J are borderline All-Stars (if they aren't, the Cs have bigger problems), the Cs need to give J and J the minutes they need to hone their game; develop their rookies; figure out a big rotation; and then in January/February see what's available.
 

Big John

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Signing a veteran now (as opposed to Tacko) won't make it more difficult to go shopping in January and February. We're talking about a player on a minimum contract. And the only rookie that might lose minutes as a result of that signing is Grant Williams.
 

OurF'ingCity

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Signing a veteran now (as opposed to Tacko) won't make it more difficult to go shopping in January and February. We're talking about a player on a minimum contract. And the only rookie that might lose minutes as a result of that signing is Grant Williams.
It's really not about rookies losing minutes (the 15th man is almost never going to play substantive minutes regardless of who he is - you're not even allowed to have more than 13 players suit up for any given game). It's about rookies losing development time. Think about it - if you sign Fall (or any other young player, but using Fall just as an example here) with the #15 slot, you can keep him in the G League without having to worry about him being signed by another team and/or get him practice minutes with the NBA team for periods of the year. If you sign Faried or any other veteran for the #15 spot, you are by definition losing out on that opportunity to develop an additional younger player (sure, you could sign Tacko to just a G-League contract but then you run the risk of losing him to another team).

There is a reason that virtually all teams either (a) keep the #15 slot open for flexibility as the season progresses or (b) use it on a young, Tacko Fall-like player.
 

Big John

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I'm not sure at this point who should be playing minutes for this team. If I had confidence that Kanter was the answer for 30-35 minutes at the center position, I'd be less worried. But I do not have confidence. So I'd rather have another legitimate NBA big man, as opposed to developing Tacko in Maine.

Maybe I'll feel differently if Poirier fits in, but he's a huge question mark as well.
 

JakeRae

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I'm not sure at this point who should be playing minutes for this team. If I had confidence that Kanter was the answer for 30-35 minutes at the center position, I'd be less worried. But I do not have confidence. So I'd rather have another legitimate NBA big man, as opposed to developing Tacko in Maine.

Maybe I'll feel differently if Poirier fits in, but he's a huge question mark as well.
I lack confidence in Kanter too, but if the team felt the same, they would’ve signed a different player.

We just came off a season where infighting over playing time was a significant problem for the organization. Why are you advocating creating another minutes jam to bring in players who aren’t good enough to have a meaningful impact on the team’s ability to win?
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I lack confidence in Kanter too, but if the team felt the same, they would’ve signed a different player.

We just came off a season where infighting over playing time was a significant problem for the organization. Why are you advocating creating another minutes jam to bring in players who aren’t good enough to have a meaningful impact on the team’s ability to win?
Unless I am misunderstanding, Big John thinks that a Faried or a Jerebko are good enough to "impact a couple of wins" and that the delta between one of them and the existing Celtics "bigs" is large enough to make a real difference for this team. I am open to the idea that I am looking at the wrong stats with these players (which suggest that they are negative value players at worst and neutral at best) but the poster's analysis fails to address the fact that both players are flawed "bigs" at best and don't really do many things you would want from guys in those roles.

Perhaps its helpful to look at it this way - if the Celtics can sign a veteran that takes them from the fourth seed to the third seed (I am being generous here given my views) and maybe help them win one or two more playoff games but that transaction costs young players developmental minutes, is it worth it? I am assuming that nobody thinks that one of these players is the difference between getting to the finals or not because that clearly changes the response and its really hard to make that case anyhow.

In short, does it really matter if the Celtics win one or two more games this year but aren't a "contender"? I would argue no and especially not at the expense of evaluating young talent however I am open to arguments to the contrary.
 

OurF'ingCity

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In short, does it really matter if the Celtics win one or two more games this year but aren't a "contender"? I would argue no and especially not at the expense of evaluating young talent however I am open to arguments to the contrary.
You just have to think of this way - what is more likely: that (a) the C's championship odds this year are materially affected by not having another NBA-veteran big man available a minimum salary or (b) that Tacko Fall (or fill in other rookie/young player the C's might target with their 15th slot) ends up becoming at least an occasionally useful NBA player?

I'd put the odds of (a) at virtually 0 percent and the odds of (b) at something like 10-20%, so obviously I am in favor of them using the 15th slot for a young player like Fall. If someone really thinks (a) is more likely, that's fine, but they need to explain how they reach that conclusion.

Edit: there is actually a third option that is probably the wisest - you just leave the 15th slot open until Tacko's 60 days with the Red Claws expires. By then you'll at least have more information - if it really looks like the bigs are struggling (or have suffered significant injuries), maybe you do sign another big man with that spot. Conversely if Tacko has shown promise in Portland they might be more inclined to sign him at that point.
 

Big John

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But suppose that one player makes the difference between a second round exit and a finals appearance? Sure, the odds are very small, say 5%. But in the playoffs they've got to face one team with Embiid and Horford, another with Gasol and Ibaka and a third with the Lopez brothers. Tacko isn't going to help them get by any of those teams. I may be willing to throw in the towel in October if the team dysfunction looks like it is continuing, but I'm not willing to throw it in now.
 

benhogan

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I'm not sure at this point who should be playing minutes for this team. If I had confidence that Kanter was the answer for 30-35 minutes at the center position, I'd be less worried. But I do not have confidence. So I'd rather have another legitimate NBA big man, as opposed to developing Tacko in Maine.

Maybe I'll feel differently if Poirier fits in, but he's a huge question mark as well.
1. Theis is definitely better than Faried right now/future and he'll struggle to get minutes.

2. Poirier has size, provides rim defense, is athletic and young. He fills a defensive need that Faried doesn't fill.

3. Kanter just has played well for Portland in the playoffs against some good Centers. He's also offensively better and younger than Faried.

Brad will probably rotate those guys based on matchup and need. Plus Brad won't play a guy like Faried at the 4, he wants guys that can shoot the 3.

Obviously, the frontcourt is the Celtics Achilles Heel, we are set with an All-NBA PG and have a bevy of good-great 2s and 3s, so Danny will be shopping for help after Dec 15th. They will give minutes to Kanter, Poirier, & Theis to see who can add value and deal whoever sucks (along w/picks & youngsters) for their Center of the future IMO.

Faried will have no minutes (so he won't sign) available to him since there is more talent in front of him. Theis, Kanter, Poirier & TL all present upside optionality for this season and are signed on the cheap for next season (and can be kept if they surprise to the upside)

While I understand its always wise to add "ready now" talent, Danny has done as much with the first 13-14 players on the roster. I'd expect #15 to be one of Waters, Strus, Fall, Green.

I don't think it's hard to see what the Celtics are up to here.
 
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DJnVa

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Dec 16, 2010
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People can quibble with Value Over Replacement numbers, but 3.6 wins would be 20th in the NBA. Faried was at .2 last season. Grant Williams or whoever he's taking minutes form would have to be pretty fucking bad to have Faried move the needle by a few wins.
 

Cellar-Door

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Aug 1, 2006
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But suppose that one player makes the difference between a second round exit and a finals appearance? Sure, the odds are very small, say 5%. But in the playoffs they've got to face one team with Embiid and Horford, another with Gasol and Ibaka and a third with the Lopez brothers. Tacko isn't going to help them get by any of those teams. I may be willing to throw in the towel in October if the team dysfunction looks like it is continuing, but I'm not willing to throw it in now.
The odds of any player signed to be the 15th man right now making the difference between a 2nd round exist and ECF is a lot lower than 5%. It's in fact probably lower than the odds of a buyout mid-season making that impact (also below 5%).
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Dec 24, 2002
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But suppose that one player makes the difference between a second round exit and a finals appearance? Sure, the odds are very small, say 5%. But in the playoffs they've got to face one team with Embiid and Horford, another with Gasol and Ibaka and a third with the Lopez brothers. Tacko isn't going to help them get by any of those teams. I may be willing to throw in the towel in October if the team dysfunction looks like it is continuing, but I'm not willing to throw it in now.
Who is this one player? 30 year old 6'8" Kenneth Faried who remains on the street at present? Why are you unwilling to support your view with data?
 
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OurF'ingCity

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Apr 22, 2016
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But suppose that one player makes the difference between a second round exit and a finals appearance?
Not to pile on, but any player who would make such a difference (in other words, be able to swing TWO playoff series in a row) would be deserving of a max contract, not a veteran minimum one to fill the 15th slot.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Jan 15, 2004
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I'm not sure at this point who should be playing minutes for this team. If I had confidence that Kanter was the answer for 30-35 minutes at the center position, I'd be less worried. But I do not have confidence. So I'd rather have another legitimate NBA big man, as opposed to developing Tacko in Maine.

Maybe I'll feel differently if Poirier fits in, but he's a huge question mark as well.
I have 100% confidence in Kanter NOT being a 30-35 mpg player in this league. I also have 100% confidence that Ainge and Brad feel same as I do.

If he can give us 20-25 quality minutes a night that is about as good as we can expect.
 

Big John

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Dec 9, 2016
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Not to pile on, but any player who would make such a difference (in other words, be able to swing TWO playoff series in a row) would be deserving of a max contract, not a veteran minimum one to fill the 15th slot.
Well, it isn't Tacko Fall.
 

OurF'ingCity

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Apr 22, 2016
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Well, it isn't Tacko Fall.
I can't quite tell if you are trolling or not - you are focused on this year when numerous posters have made the obvious point that the 15th slot is generally a developmental slot that a team doesn't expect to get any actual production out of in that year but hopes the player will improve in future years. If you assume the 15th player is going to contribute virtually nothing to the team this year, which is highly likely to be the case regardless of who they signed, why would you want a veteran retread instead of a player that still has a chance to develop and improve?