Celtics Sign Tacko Fall

Jed Zeppelin

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Wilt Chamberlain shot underhand. In this video, Tommy says he'd teach big guy to shoot FTs just thw way Tacko is doing it.

He did it for one season and then gave it up, IIRC, despite shooting a career high underhanded.
 

Kliq

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Guys can improve their free-throw shooting; it isn't something I'm that worried about with Tacko. Andre Drummond is now a 60 percent FT shooter after shooting in the 30s, DeAndre Jordan shot 70 percent last year.
 

Devizier

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Body mechanics/kinesiology mostly. A standard free throw involves more moving body parts and room for things to get out of whack. Knees don't bend as much? Arms don't bend the same as last time? Finger spacing different? More or less thrust from the wrists? All moving parts. The underhand style can minimize the moving parts into a fluid more repeatable motion.
You also get more arc and it's easier to get the ball to the basket at the top of its arc. At that point there is (ideally) no force behind the ball, so gravity should just pull it in the basket.
 

Devizier

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I actually had a totally different concern with Tacko. From what I saw, he didn't have great rebounding instincts. That makes sense in a way, because he's so damn close to the ball he has less time to react. But he rarely pulled down a "clean" rebounding if it was contested and that's against scrubs in the summer league.
 

Big John

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If you look at Barry's underhanded form you see the same gentle knee flex very much like the one Bird used to shoot overhand. Chamberlain tried shooting underhand for awhile, but his percentage didn't improve much because his knees were too stiff.
 

GoDa

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I don't think extreme height is the most effective trait for all types of rebounding. Tacko is surprisingly fluid for a guy of his size... he's just not super quick. It is encouraging that he does have good instincts when it comes to boxing out. He looks like he's putting in the effort. On the other hands, there are likely to be a lot of rebounding situations where more strength, more quickness, and less height is a better selection of attributes. I actually think he'll be more effective on the offensive end, simply because I bet he converts those into 2 pts at a very high rate.
 

Koufax

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I actually had a totally different concern with Tacko. From what I saw, he didn't have great rebounding instincts. That makes sense in a way, because he's so damn close to the ball he has less time to react. But he rarely pulled down a "clean" rebounding if it was contested and that's against scrubs in the summer league.
That was most evident in game 3, when he didn't seem to get much done.
 

joe dokes

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You also get more arc and it's easier to get the ball to the basket at the top of its arc. At that point there is (ideally) no force behind the ball, so gravity should just pull it in the basket.
I think the arc has a lot to do with it. HoFer Jerry Lucas (a great player in the 60s and early 70s but a weird guy who memorized the phone book on road trips and shit like that) used to shoot long jumpers from a relatively low start with a high arc. His rationale was that when trying to put a round ball into an only-slightly-larger round hole, straight down (as much as possible anyway) is the most effective path for the ball.

 

HomeRunBaker

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The upshot is, if you can get the release point right, the underhanded shot drops down at a better angle. The issue, from what I gather, is that people new to it can struggle getting this and when they miss they miss badly. There's less chance of an embarrassing miss shooting overhand, however the angle isn't as good overall.
This is why shorter players tend to be better FT shooters than bigs. The lower the release point the better angle for the ball to drop softly into the basket as you can generate a higher arc. This is the basic physics behind Barry's underhand shot.
 

lovegtm

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This is why shorter players tend to be better FT shooters than bigs. The lower the release point the better angle for the ball to drop softly into the basket as you can generate a higher arc. This is the basic physics behind Barry's underhand shot.
Also the apex of the arc is lower and closer to the basket, right? So the ball has a lower velocity if it does hit the rim.
 

DannyDarwinism

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I actually had a totally different concern with Tacko. From what I saw, he didn't have great rebounding instincts. That makes sense in a way, because he's so damn close to the ball he has less time to react. But he rarely pulled down a "clean" rebounding if it was contested and that's against scrubs in the summer league.
He also just has very slow load time in his legs, particularly vertically. There was one rebound the other day where the ball bounced high off the rim, right towards him, and he looked sure to grab it but when he flexed down to jump, the ball went over his head before he could even start coming up again.

On the other hand, he moves better horizontally than I had expected. He's certainly not consistent with it, but he has shown glimpses of the ability to slide, enough to make me think that it's worth a shot at investing in trying to coach him up. The slow loading issue is biomechanical, and I don't know how much he can really do to improve, but coaching to help him position his feet better, take more efficient angles, and recognize offenses earlier can definitely help mitigate.

The way he alters opposing offenses cannot be taught. Virtually every time someone gets into the paint with the ball when he's underneath, you can basically see their "oh shit" moment, where they either kick/dribble back out or end up throwing an completely altered teardrop/scoop shot. Same thing when a big grabs an offensive rebound- his presence scares them into doing something they don’t really have the muscle memory to do effectively. If he can extend his zone of influence from 15 feet to 20 feet, without being a major liability in the PnR, he can become a defensive presence to be reckoned with.
 

Kliq

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The way he alters opposing offenses cannot be taught. Virtually every time someone gets into the paint with the ball when he's underneath, you can basically see their "oh shit" moment, where they either kick/dribble back out or end up throwing an completely altered teardrop/scoop shot. Same thing when a big grabs an offensive rebound- his presence scares them into doing something they don’t really have the muscle memory to do effectively. If he can extend his zone of influence from 15 feet to 20 feet, without being a major liability in the PnR, he can become a defensive presence to be reckoned with.
This is what I have noticed as well, you really can see the "oh shit" moment when someone tries to get to the rim; I'd love for him to play long enough so we can see some of the advanced metric data on his defensive impact on the game. There are times when he hasn't blocked a shot, but has forced the offensive player to make such an awkward adjustment they end up barely hitting the backboard. I know Boban has been kind of an advanced metric darling when it comes to his limited playing time.

As for his rebounding, I think it was HRB who pointed it out in an earlier post, Tacko's potential to knocking the ball out on the offensive glass; not exactly rebounding the ball, but giving the team extra possessions based on his incredible reach, is something that can be utilized in the future.
 

benhogan

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He also just has very slow load time in his legs, particularly vertically. There was one rebound the other day where the ball bounced high off the rim, right towards him, and he looked sure to grab it but when he flexed down to jump, the ball went over his head before he could even start coming up again.

On the other hand, he moves better horizontally than I had expected. He's certainly not consistent with it, but he has shown glimpses of the ability to slide, enough to make me think that it's worth a shot at investing in trying to coach him up. The slow loading issue is biomechanical, and I don't know how much he can really do to improve, but coaching to help him position his feet better, take more efficient angles, and recognize offenses earlier can definitely help mitigate.

The way he alters opposing offenses cannot be taught. Virtually every time someone gets into the paint with the ball when he's underneath, you can basically see their "oh shit" moment, where they either kick/dribble back out or end up throwing an completely altered teardrop/scoop shot. Same thing when a big grabs an offensive rebound- his presence scares them into doing something they don’t really have the muscle memory to do effectively. If he can extend his zone of influence from 15 feet to 20 feet, without being a major liability in the PnR, he can become a defensive presence to be reckoned with.
don't dismiss the psychological warfare of Tacko's presence.

ie. when Tacko relentlessly swats Joels 5th shot in 5 minutes he'll permanently lease space in Embiid's head,
kind of like Man Bun...

#tackoownsembiid

:drunk:
 

Saints Rest

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This is what I have noticed as well, you really can see the "oh shit" moment when someone tries to get to the rim; I'd love for him to play long enough so we can see some of the advanced metric data on his defensive impact on the game. There are times when he hasn't blocked a shot, but has forced the offensive player to make such an awkward adjustment they end up barely hitting the backboard. I know Boban has been kind of an advanced metric darling when it comes to his limited playing time.

As for his rebounding, I think it was HRB who pointed it out in an earlier post, Tacko's potential to knocking the ball out on the offensive glass; not exactly rebounding the ball, but giving the team extra possessions based on his incredible reach, is something that can be utilized in the future.
We saw exactly that in the game against Denver except he knocked it high off the backboard to himself. His insane standing reach mitigates a bit of the biomechanical challenges of reloading for a second jump; no need to jump twice when you can reach +10’ standing flat-footed.
His running the break to collect an easy dunk in that game really impressed me; he didn’t seem to be that much slower than anyone else running the length of the floor.
https://nesn.com/2019/07/tacko-fall-fills-up-stat-sheet-highlight-reel-again-in-celtics-summer-league-win/
 

Kliq

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We saw exactly that in the game against Denver except he knocked it high off the backboard to himself. His insane standing reach mitigates a bit of the biomechanical challenges of reloading for a second jump; no need to jump twice when you can reach +10’ standing flat-footed.
His running the break to collect an easy dunk in that game really impressed me; he didn’t seem to be that much slower than anyone else running the length of the floor.
https://nesn.com/2019/07/tacko-fall-fills-up-stat-sheet-highlight-reel-again-in-celtics-summer-league-win/
His most impressive play/series last night was early in the game; he missed a shot close to the rim, but ran down the floor as Memphis came back down and recovered to make a nice block at the rim; and then on that same possession went up vertically and stuffed another guy at the rim; then ran back down the floor and should have had an easy dunk but the pass just wasn't right for him to catch it. His mobility and defensive instincts were really impressive.
 

TripleOT

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I was at Lowes the other day and had to run back in quickly to buy one more 10 foot long pine board, which I carried by hand to the register. I stood it up and reached up to my 8 foot standing reach, (I'm 6'4") and thought about how Tacko Fall's standing reach is actually two inches higher than the top of the board, which I was nowhere near getting to the top of. Then I imagined how difficult it would be to get a shot off over the top of that board if it was anywhere near me when trying to shoot. Then I thought about trying to get a shot off if that player with the 10'2" standing reach could jump even a little bit.

Besides the incredible length, Fall has pretty good shotblocking instincts, and is enough of an athlete at his size to really go after blocks while he is tracking down a driver, unlike a lot of the uber tall shotblockers who would just stand there and block shots. Besides his ability to terrorize the paint, his close outs on jump shooters are unlike anything shooters have ever seen before. Fall is such a unique prospect. I hope they keep him on the roster this season, even as a last second defender of the in bound pass in home games as he plays for the Red Claws.
 

InstaFace

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His most impressive play/series last night was early in the game; he missed a shot close to the rim, but ran down the floor as Memphis came back down and recovered to make a nice block at the rim; and then on that same possession went up vertically and stuffed another guy at the rim; then ran back down the floor and should have had an easy dunk but the pass just wasn't right for him to catch it. His mobility and defensive instincts were really impressive.
I greatly enjoyed the alley-oops at the end. There were a couple rebounding situations, though, where someone who had a little more of a clue on positioning - but also a sense of aggressiveness - might've come up with it against the much shorter player. He seemed to lack something in the aggression department when it comes to getting in the post on offense but also rebounding on defense.

The announcers absolutely loved him though, kept on talking about his build and how he's proportional and they think he'll end up being an NBA player.
 

Kliq

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Kind of fun; at about 1:00 in this video someone on the Celtics (I think it is Onuaku) just yells "Block that shit!" when a Memphis player tries to sneak a floater past Tacko, and Tacko obliges.

 

TheRooster

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Kind of fun; at about 1:00 in this video someone on the Celtics (I think it is Onuaku) just yells "Block that shit!" when a Memphis player tries to sneak a floater past Tacko, and Tacko obliges.

Tremendous pick up on the "block that shit" comment! FWIW I think he's making the 15 man roster. So mobile and proportionally built compared to the previous giants.
 

snowmanny

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Kind of fun; at about 1:00 in this video someone on the Celtics (I think it is Onuaku) just yells "Block that shit!" when a Memphis player tries to sneak a floater past Tacko, and Tacko obliges.

Kind of fun? I just watched that six times .
 

InstaFace

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Kind of fun? I just watched that six times .
If anything that video understates how much of an impact he had on the game when he was in. His footwork around "avoiding 3-second violations" was good. His switches and particularly his close-outs need work, among many other things, but basically nobody drove to the hoop with authority while he was there.
 

Smokey Joe

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BTW. If Tacko had any kind of acting potential, I could easily see him appearing in SpaceJam 2 as a Monstar. Heck, if someone wanted to remake Conan, he could do a very credible Bombatto (or whatever). His agent should be looking into this stuff while he has a bit of name recognition.
 

GoDa

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Stevens seems to really like him. Aside from commenting on his character and how he's handling all of the attention, I think the quote from the Dakich interview was something like... "you can see he's going to be an NBA player... and probably for a long time."
 

GoDa

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According to Twitter, he was at Fenway with G. Williams watching the soccer game, tonight.
 

Spelunker

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Danny Ainge on
@Toucherandrich
on Tacko Fall: “We’re trying to still get a contract done with Tacko. We haven’t signed him yet. I really can’t say much more about Tacko than we’re just trying to get him in the fold. … Hopefully we can get that done but we’ll see.”

TACKO!

The Boston Celtics have signed guards Tremont Waters and Max Strus to two-way contracts, and have signed center Tacko Fall and guard Javonte Green, the team announced today. Per team policy, terms of the deals were not disclosed.

 

Koufax

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That's about as fuzzy as fuzzy can be. Have signed them to what? Record contracts? Shoe deals? Red Claws? Surely not roster spots or two-way contracts - or they would have said so.
 

Imbricus

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I'm curious: What does that mean for Tacko being exposed to offers from other teams? Unless the Celts cut him, are they guaranteed to keep him for at least a year, with rights to him beyond that, if they so desire? I'm not familiar with how the Exhibit 10 contracts work in that regard. Anyone know?
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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I'm curious: What does that mean for Tacko being exposed to offers from other teams? Unless the Celts cut him, are they guaranteed to keep him for at least a year, with rights to him beyond that, if they so desire? I'm not familiar with how the Exhibit 10 contracts work in that regard. Anyone know?
Exhibit 10 says that if he spends 60 days with G League team he gets a bonus. However, we won't know the particulars of the deal until after the end of preseason. Cs have Waters and Strus on 2-ways; Green on partially guaranteed contract, and Fall on Exhibit 10. These could be in flux until after preseason.

Here's some info: https://www.celticsblog.com/2019/6/21/18701474/tacko-fall-signs-exhibit-10-contract-with-boston-celtics
 

djbayko

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I just watched all of his summer league highlights again because it makes me happy.


And he's boys with Norm,, so add another point to the "for" column.
Hey, @tackofall99, watched all your summer league games. So fantastic. And I'm thrilled The Celtics picked you up. It was great to meet you, and if you need anything next time you're in the neighborhood, let me know.. Give me a call or DM me here. Peace, brother.