Boogie. Would you?

[ifmanis5]

DeMarcus Amir "Boogie" Cousins. Age 25. Known coach killer but also a career 19/10 guy.

If you were running the Celtics, would you trade for Boogie?

Pros- All he's known is Kings chaos, under Stevens things would be more stable. He's a walking double-double. Tons of talent and he's still only 25.

Cons- Can't take the jungle out of the cat; only a matter of time until he's a malcontent. Would Stevens be his next scalp? He's more problem than solution. Would he be even worse with a long term contract?

So, is this a player you would trade for?

 

[Eddie Jurak]

Absolutely.

 

[bowiac]

It's a clear yes. He has all the classic big man skills you want, and then this year has started casually adding a three pointer to his game. He's probably a better defensive player than an offensive one, but on a deep enough team, he could be the best player on a championship team.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

Bowiac, what do you think is a realistic offer the Celtics could make for Boogie?

Sully + Brooklyn 2016 first + what else?

 

[Cellar-Door]

Bowiac, what do you think is a realistic offer the Celtics could make for Boogie?

Sully + Brooklyn 2016 first + what else?

Well, they really won't trade him.
If they did I assume it is Lee's expiring, Brooklyn 2016, another 1st and one of (Olynyk, Rozier, Hunter, Bradley).
I don't see why they want to pay Sullinger as an RFA.

 

[JohnnyTheBone]

That's called gettin' ready for the Boogie.


Don't forget to Boogie.

 

[bowiac]

Bowiac, what do you think is a realistic offer the Celtics could make for Boogie?
Sully + Brooklyn 2016 first + what else?

I think Cellar-Door is correct that he's likely not getting moved yet. They're going to fire Karl first, and try and make it work. If he gets moved, it'll be in the offseason. Just seems like there's more downside to moving him for a lottery pick than upside in the Celtics or someone else deciding they're not willing to give up a high pick for him.

But, I think something like Bradley, Young, Hunter, Sullinger, and the Nets pick makes sense. Teams do trade for restricted free agents and treat them as assets, and rightly so. Restricted free agency is an asset. Plus, regardless the Brooklyn pick is the centerpiece there. It doesn't seem like the Kings would settle for Lee for salary purposes. Losing Hunter on top of the Brooklyn pick would stink, since he looks like a player, but is the price you pay.

That's a midseason offer however - if the lottery balls fall the right way, and the Nets pick is high lottery, then I think the Celtics might balk at including Hunter as well. I'm assuming there's something to the Zach Lowe tweet that the Celtics aren't sure they're trade the Brooklyn pick in the first place.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

I can't seeing DA moving the Brooklyn pock until he sees just how bad/good the Nets are going to be.

Would people really trade the pick for Cousins if they knew the pock was top-3? Or even better than that?

 

[Eddie Jurak]

I can't seeing DA moving the Brooklyn pock until he sees just how bad/good the Nets are going to be.

Would people really trade the pick for Cousins if they knew the pock was top-3? Or even better than that?

What are the odds that a top 3 pick will be a better player than Cousins?

 

[Cellar-Door]

I'd trade this year's #1 for Cousins in a heartbeat. He's probably one of the 10 best players in the league right now, he's 25 and he's got 2 years after this one at reasonable money.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

But, I think something like Bradley, Young, Hunter, Sullinger, and the Nets pick makes sense. Teams do trade for restricted free agents and treat them as assets, and rightly so. Restricted free agency is an asset. Plus, regardless the Brooklyn pick is the centerpiece there. It doesn't seem like the Kings would settle for Lee for salary purposes. Losing Hunter on top of the Brooklyn pick would stink, since he looks like a player, but is the price you pay..

I'd balk at including Hunter. I'd rather offer another first, or maybe even Rozier.

Sacramento is just clueless and dysfunctional enough that maybe a deal could happen at some point.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

I haven't heard one offer that Vlade doesn't hang up on within 3 seconds. It would take a ridiculous haul to get him like multiple lotteries. Trades for elite talent are rarely completed in this league and I still haven't heard one reason why the Kings would trade Cousins.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

I haven't heard one offer that Vlade doesn't hang up on within 3 seconds. It would take a ridiculous haul to get him like multiple lotteries. Trades for elite talent are rarely completed in this league and I still haven't heard one reason why the Kings would trade Cousins.

Organizational dysfunction?

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Organizational dysfunction?

So you are banking on Vlade simply losing his mind? I mean everyone knows the league is run by the franchise players and Boogie would seem to be pretty far down on the list of changes to be made. He handled the Karl situation perfectly with the players imo which gives me a little confidence the dysfunction is being overstated as there is dysfunction in most NBA locker rooms.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

So you are banking on Vlade simply losing his mind? I mean everyone knows the league is run by the franchise players and Boogie would seem to be pretty far down on the list of changes to be made. He handled the Karl situation perfectly with the players imo which gives me a little confidence the dysfunction is being overstated as there is dysfunction in most NBA locker rooms.

Well, Vlade... Or Vivek, who might be a worthy challenger to Prokhorov for the NBA's annual Ted Stepien Award.

More than that, the general tendency among bad teams to underrate their best players.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Well, Vlade... Or Vivek, who might be a worthy challenger to Prokhorov for the NBA's annual Ted Stepien Award.

More than that, the general tendency among bad teams to underrate their best players.

Fair points all around. I just really like what I've seen of them so far with Boogie in the lineup and if they are competing for a playoff spot I can't see anything happening or even being discussed.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

Fair points all around. I just really like what I've seen of them so far with Boogie in the lineup and if they are competing for a playoff spot I can't see anything happening or even being discussed.

Yes, if they are contending for a playoff spot they won't be in any hurry to disembowel their team by trading him.

However, it is tough to reach the playoffs in the West. And they do still have Rajon Rondo, so there's that...

 

[Blacken]

This is a dumb question. You trade for transformative talents if you get the chance.

If he is unworkable, there would be a next buyer.

 

[Devizier]

If Cousins is traded, it's because Sacramento melts down into a total shitshow. This is not exactly a remote prospect.

This isn't exactly the same as trading for Garnett, but he's a lot younger than Garnett was, so the price should be higher. Depends on how Brooklyn's season shakes out -- I imagine the pick is worth a lot more (or less) once the ping pong balls are settled.

 

[moondog80]

I'd balk at including Hunter. I'd rather offer another first, or maybe even Rozier.

Sacramento is just clueless and dysfunctional enough that maybe a deal could happen at some point.

I'm pretty sure a deal for Cousins won't fall apart over RJ Hunter.

 

[bowiac]

I love RJ Hunter. He was one of my pre-draft favorites, and he's done nothing but good things since then. I think he's got good starter upside too - more than just a rotation guy. He's not where you draw the line on a Cousins trade. The question with a Cousins trade is if you include a 2nd Brooklyn pick. My answer is probably "no", but that depends on the free agency landscape as much as anything (whether Brooklyn can realistically fix things next season).

I haven't heard one offer that Vlade doesn't hang up on within 3 seconds. It would take a ridiculous haul to get him like multiple lotteries. Trades for elite talent are rarely completed in this league and I still haven't heard one reason why the Kings would trade Cousins.

Melo was traded, essentially for 1) Wilson Chandler; 2) Mozgov; 3) Danilo; 4) a first-round draft pick four years down the line. The Magic got Vucevic, Afflalo, Harkless, McRoberts, and three mid-first rounders for Howard. Kevin Love fetched Andrew Wiggins, and Thaddeus Young.

Those are three pretty reasonable comps. I think a package of the Nets pick, Sullinger, Hunter, Young, and Bradley beats the Melo and Dwight packages (both were essentially pupu platters), and is about on par with the Love offer. A mystery Brooklyn pick isn't as premium a piece as Andrew Wiggins, but there's also more to go along with it.

I agree it doesn't look like they trading Cousins yet, but if they do, I don't think this "multiple lotteries" offer is out there. Even elite talents don't fetch that.

 

[JakeRae]

I love RJ Hunter. He was one of my pre-draft favorites, and he's done nothing but good things since then. I think he's got good starter upside too - more than just a rotation guy. He's not where you draw the line on a Cousins trade. The question with a Cousins trade is if you include a 2nd Brooklyn pick. My answer is probably "no", but that depends on the free agency landscape as much as anything (whether Brooklyn can realistically fix things next season).


Melo was traded, essentially for 1) Wilson Chandler; 2) Mozgov; 3) Danilo; 4) a first-round draft pick four years down the line. The Magic got Vucevic, Afflalo, Harkless, McRoberts, and three mid-first rounders for Howard. Kevin Love fetched Andrew Wiggins, and Thaddeus Young.

Those are three pretty reasonable comps. I think a package of the Nets pick, Sullinger, Hunter, Young, and Bradley beats the Melo and Dwight packages (both were essentially pupu platters), and is about on par with the Love offer. A mystery Brooklyn pick isn't as premium a piece as Andrew Wiggins, but there's also more to go along with it.

I agree it doesn't look like they trading Cousins yet, but if they do, I don't think this "multiple lotteries" offer is out there. Even elite talents don't fetch that.

There's probably a multiple lottery offer out there. There is highly unlikely to be a multiple unprotected lottery offer where one is already a guaranteed or highly probable top 5 pick. The Nets can't make that trade right now and no other franchise has shown itself willing to make that sort of deal for any level of player.

In short, we agree on substance and I'm just being nitpicky about phrasing.

 

[wutang112878]

I'm reluctant to trade the Nets pick, but if it came down to it I think I'd do it. I'd certainly like to see some more out of Simmons to really get a judge of what type of NBA player he'd be though. But when I think of our overall odds of getting more talent out of that pick, say the odds are 50/50 that Simmons is better than Cousins and then consider the odds that the Nets get the #1 (even as the #1 lottery team there is only a 25% chance), now thats a ~13% chance of getting better talent for that pick, thats tough.

I think this question comes down to the Cousins mental evaluation. Are his problems because of organizational dysfunction? Could this be like our Robert Parish trade (who allegedly had a bad attitude before he got here)?? I'd be curious to know what his workout habits are, if he truly cares about the game then I'd be willing to bet that his problems might be solved coming here and playing for Stevens.

 

[The Social Chair]

 

[EL Jeffe]

David Lee's expiring matches up with Boogie's contract on the trade machine, so it then becomes a question of how many picks would it take to get it done. But I agree with HRB: Sacramento would have to be insane to move Cousins. Obviously they've shown a great deal of dysfunction, but moving an elite young talent signed to reasonable money goes beyond well dysfunction. It would take Cousins absolutely forcing his way out of town and the Kings caving for this scenario to happen. Boogie seems like a pipe dream at this point.