2022-23 NBA Game Thread

Sam Ray Not

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Washed Klay 12-16 from 3 in 33 minutes. Had OKC kept it a bit closer, he might have broken his own record.

Warriors dish 43 assists and shoot 26-50 from 3 in their first game without that Curry guy.
 

Cellar-Door

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Lillard's legacy will be fascinating. On the one hand a fun and gifted offensive player who'll get credit for never leaving POR, on the other a guy who never even tried to be competitive on defense, who had his agent leak that he might want a trade every 2 years to make sure he maximized his money with extensions, both things that made it very difficult to surround him with talent. He's got a lot of Melo in him, in that winning a ring was just not that important to them in comparison with getting their numbers, being the undisputed star of their team and getting their money.
 

ElUno20

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Lillard's legacy will be fascinating. On the one hand a fun and gifted offensive player who'll get credit for never leaving POR, on the other a guy who never even tried to be competitive on defense, who had his agent leak that he might want a trade every 2 years to make sure he maximized his money with extensions, both things that made it very difficult to surround him with talent. He's got a lot of Melo in him, in that winning a ring was just not that important to them in comparison with getting their numbers, being the undisputed star of their team and getting their money.
Melo is a great comparison. Dame has 2 iconic playoff shots though and a great marketing reputation that'll keep the vultures off him.
 

Kliq

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Comparing Dame to Melo is a harsh, harsh comparison, especially in how Melo blew his way out of Denver.
 

chilidawg

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Lillard's legacy will be fascinating. On the one hand a fun and gifted offensive player who'll get credit for never leaving POR, on the other a guy who never even tried to be competitive on defense, who had his agent leak that he might want a trade every 2 years to make sure he maximized his money with extensions, both things that made it very difficult to surround him with talent. He's got a lot of Melo in him, in that winning a ring was just not that important to them in comparison with getting their numbers, being the undisputed star of their team and getting their money.
How do you know winning a ring wasn't important to him? You hanging with Dame and he told you that?
 

Cellar-Door

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How do you know winning a ring wasn't important to him? You hanging with Dame and he told you that?
I know that the choices he makes are not ones conducive to winning a ring, as I pointed out in the post. If he really was that concerned with winning a ring he'd make different choices.
 

benhogan

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How do you know winning a ring wasn't important to him? You hanging with Dame and he told you that?
Nobody around here knows a player's inner workings/psyche. @Cellar-Door is just providing Dame's career blueprint and forming an opinion. Nothing really wrong with that.

If I was to push back. Maybe Dame has been loyal to PDX to a fault? As far as getting as much $$$ as possible at every turn that's an absolute given. There are very few NBA players that will take less in order to add more talent. In fact, it's pretty frowned upon league-wide to take less. All you're really doing is saving Billionaires millions since there is usually a path to busting through the cap/being a tax-payer (which 100% of the players & the players union wants). Even the Warriors ownership, who have acted like the MFY are getting criticized by Draymond for not fattening him up with an extension. I'm sure Klay thinks he deserves a MAX extension for what he has historically done for the Dubs.
 

ManicCompression

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If I was to push back. Maybe Dame has been loyal to PDX to a fault? As far as getting as much $$$ as possible at every turn that's an absolute given. There are very few NBA players that will take less in order to add more talent. In fact, it's pretty frowned upon league-wide to take less. All you're really doing is saving Billionaires millions since there is usually a path to busting through the cap/being a tax-payer (which 100% of the players & the players union wants). Even the Warriors ownership, who have acted like the MFY are getting criticized by Draymond for not fattening him up with an extension. I'm sure Klay thinks he deserves a MAX extension for what he has historically done for the Dubs.
Also, if you do take less (like KD joining the Warriors) to join a winning situation, you get pilloried for riding coattails. Guys at this level are in a no-win situation.
 

Cellar-Door

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Nobody around here knows a player's inner workings/psyche. @Cellar-Door is just providing Dame's career blueprint and forming an opinion. Nothing really wrong with that.

If I was to push back. Maybe Dame has been loyal to PDX to a fault? As far as getting as much $$$ as possible at every turn that's an absolute given. There are very few NBA players that will take less in order to add more talent. In fact, it's pretty frowned upon league-wide to take less. All you're really doing is saving Billionaires millions since there is usually a path to busting through the cap/being a tax-payer (which 100% of the players & the players union wants). Even the Warriors ownership, who have acted like the MFY are getting criticized by Draymond for not fattening him up with an extension. I'm sure Klay thinks he deserves a MAX extension for what he has historically done for the Dubs.
I agree generally, but I will say, very very few players have done what Dame does. It's not that he doesn't take less money, it's that he basically uses leaked rumors of unhappiness to get an extension every couple years, not many guys do that, and few teams are willing to tolerate it. Dame realized at some point that POR was going to just give him raises at every turn to avoid him asking for a trade because they just don't think they can be real contenders, and he's willing to stay on non-contenders if he gets a raise every year because it feeds his loyalty image
 

benhogan

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I agree generally, but I will say, very very few players have done what Dame does. It's not that he doesn't take less money, it's that he basically uses leaked rumors of unhappiness to get an extension every couple years, not many guys do that, and few teams are willing to tolerate it. Dame realized at some point that POR was going to just give him raises at every turn to avoid him asking for a trade because they just don't think they can be real contenders, and he's willing to stay on non-contenders if he gets a raise every year because it feeds his loyalty image
I don't follow PDX close enough, but there always seems to be some sort of media spin/false promise about them contending. I never bought into CJ and that WC finals run being a springboard to Chips. Even earlier this season when they had a hot start, more Blazer spin... They are basically the ATL of the West Conf.

I do think that the massive DAME contract extension was premature/dumb. Offense only/small PG in their mid-30s o_O

Dame has helped PDX lock up purgatory for the next 4 seasons. So I can see the criticism.
 

Sam Ray Not

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Career TS%
Dame .586
Melo .543 (on lower volume, 23.4 pts per 36 to Dame's 24.8)

Peak TS%
Dame .645 (this season, on high volume)
Melo .579 (last season, on lowish volume)

Career Assists/36
Dame 6.6
Melo 2.8

Career Plus-Minus (per 100 possessions)
Dame +3.2 on / +7.3 net on-off
Melo +1.5 on / +1.7 net on-off

But other than that, Mrs. Lincoln...
 

Cellar-Door

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Career TS%
Dame .586
Melo .543 (on lower volume, 23.4 pts per 36 to Dame's 24.8)

Peak TS%
Dame .645 (this season, on high volume)
Melo .579 (last season, on lowish volume)

Career Assists/36
Dame 6.6
Melo 2.8

Career Plus-Minus (per 100 possessions)
Dame +3.2 on / +7.3 net on-off
Melo +1.5 on / +1.7 net on-off

But other than that, Mrs. Lincoln...
I mean, was anyone arguing about their stats? I mentioned that their legacies will likely be similar, in the type of players they were and the choices they made to prioritize other things over trying to win a title (Dame preferring money/POR, Melo wanting NYC and what his wife wanted).
 

Sam Ray Not

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I mean, was anyone arguing about their stats? I mentioned that their legacies will likely be similar, in the type of players they were and the choices they made to prioritize other things over trying to win a title (Dame preferring money/POR, Melo wanting NYC and what his wife wanted).
No, I got all that; I just thought the fact that Dame is a much higher caliber of player was relevant to the comparison.
 

Kliq

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I think Dame's commitment to playing in a smaller market in front of the same fans instead of hoping to a super team should be celebrated, and think that it's all a rouse because Dame just wants a lot of money and isn't competitive enough to seek out a title over money is an extremely cynical view on things, and frankly deeply at odds with the effort and dedication Lillard has displayed in trying to win in Portland.

Melo staying in NYC wasn't a bad thing either, but comparing the two also ignores Melo's messy and public breakup with Denver and forcing his way to the Knicks.
 

Cellar-Door

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I think Dame's commitment to playing in a smaller market in front of the same fans instead of hoping to a super team should be celebrated, and think that it's all a rouse because Dame just wants a lot of money and isn't competitive enough to seek out a title over money is an extremely cynical view on things, and frankly deeply at odds with the effort and dedication Lillard has displayed in trying to win in Portland.

Melo staying in NYC wasn't a bad thing either, but comparing the two also ignores Melo's messy and public breakup with Denver and forcing his way to the Knicks.
Meh, I'd buy that line more if he didn't have his agent leaking that he might be interested in a trade this year 3-4 times in the last 6 years. I'd also buy it more if that effort to win involved ever playing defense. Dame is an incredible offensive player, he loves taking big shots and he makes a lot of them, and yes some of the failure to put together a real contender is on the front office, but he's not exactly recruiting guys to Portland, he's never put in the effort to defend, and he's always willing to dangle leaving through his agent to get more money.

That's fine, that's his prerogative, but that's a real choice to not really have a chance to win. That's fine, guys prioritize things differently was my point and Dame's priority isn't winning a title. I'm not saying Dame is a bad guy or something, just that his whole schtick of "I;m taking the hard road by failing alone" is a bit silly, and that he's likely never going to win a title and that's partly on him.

Honestly I don't really have much negative to say about Melo wanting out of Denver... his wife wanted to be in NYC, that was important to him he asked them to trade him and let them know he wouldn't sign an extension, he still showed up and played well while waiting for his trade. He stayed in NYC when he could have left to chase a title in his prime, only leaving once his wife and he seperated.
 

Kliq

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Meh, I'd buy that line more if he didn't have his agent leaking that he might be interested in a trade this year 3-4 times in the last 6 years. I'd also buy it more if that effort to win involved ever playing defense. Dame is an incredible offensive player, he loves taking big shots and he makes a lot of them, and yes some of the failure to put together a real contender is on the front office, but he's not exactly recruiting guys to Portland, he's never put in the effort to defend, and he's always willing to dangle leaving through his agent to get more money.

That's fine, that's his prerogative, but that's a real choice to not really have a chance to win. That's fine, guys prioritize things differently was my point and Dame's priority isn't winning a title. I'm not saying Dame is a bad guy or something, just that his whole schtick of "I;m taking the hard road by failing alone" is a bit silly, and that he's likely never going to win a title and that's partly on him.

Honestly I don't really have much negative to say about Melo wanting out of Denver... his wife wanted to be in NYC, that was important to him he asked them to trade him and let them know he wouldn't sign an extension, he still showed up and played well while waiting for his trade. He stayed in NYC when he could have left to chase a title in his prime, only leaving once his wife and he seperated.
Do we have evidence of his agent leaking that he might ask for a trade all the time so he can get a contract extension?
 

Cellar-Door

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Do we have evidence of his agent leaking that he might ask for a trade all the time so he can get a contract extension?
you mean other than the times when well sourced reporters said "I'm hearing Dame might ok a trade" or "Sources close to Lillard say he's losing patience", most recently 2021 and 2022, honestly I think we discussed trading for him in this forum each time.
I mean I think we're at a point that we can parse who leaks are from right?

I get it, you love Lillard, he's amazing. That's cool, but pretending he hasn't leveraged his power through selective leaking is just putting your head in the sand.

Anyway, this digression has probably gone long enough.
 

radsoxfan

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Career TS%
Dame .586
Melo .543 (on lower volume, 23.4 pts per 36 to Dame's 24.8)

Peak TS%
Dame .645 (this season, on high volume)
Melo .579 (last season, on lowish volume)

Career Assists/36
Dame 6.6
Melo 2.8

Career Plus-Minus (per 100 possessions)
Dame +3.2 on / +7.3 net on-off
Melo +1.5 on / +1.7 net on-off

But other than that, Mrs. Lincoln...
To add some DARKO to the mix....

It likes Lillard as a better player and similar defensive liability.

Obviously different overall skillset but will be interesting to see if Lilliard's career arc follows Carmelo's decline as quickly.


CA-DL-Overall.pngCA-DL-Def.png
 

benhogan

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To add some DARKO to the mix....

It likes Lillard as a better player and similar defensive liability.

Obviously different overall skillset but will be interesting to see if Lilliard's career arc follows Carmelo's decline as quickly.


View attachment 60969View attachment 60970
anecdotal but it does seem like a combination of long-dated +/- & On-Off (posted by SRN) correlates well with DARKO

Career TS%
Dame .586
Melo .543 (on lower volume, 23.4 pts per 36 to Dame's 24.8)

Peak TS%
Dame .645 (this season, on high volume)
Melo .579 (last season, on lowish volume)

Career Assists/36
Dame 6.6
Melo 2.8

Career Plus-Minus (per 100 possessions)
Dame +3.2 on / +7.3 net on-off
Melo +1.5 on / +1.7 net on-off

But other than that, Mrs. Lincoln...
the fact is Melo's greatest accomplishment happened in 2003:D
 

radsoxfan

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anecdotal but it does seem like a combination of long-dated +/- & On-Off (posted by SRN) correlates well with DARKO
Agree.

Also of course any of those career numbers are going to falsely separate the 2, as it catches all of Carmelo's decline phase while Lilliard's hasn't really even begun.
 

benhogan

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you mean other than the times when well sourced reporters said "I'm hearing Dame might ok a trade" or "Sources close to Lillard say he's losing patience", most recently 2021 and 2022, honestly I think we discussed trading for him in this forum each time.
I mean I think we're at a point that we can parse who leaks are from right?

I get it, you love Lillard, he's amazing. That's cool, but pretending he hasn't leveraged his power through selective leaking is just putting your head in the sand.

Anyway, this digression has probably gone long enough.
Someone mentioned it up thread but guys like Bron (Miami/ THE DECISION), AD ("Thats All Folks" in NOLA) and KD - (Cream Puff crap in OKC) were crucified for opting to WIN and not being loyal to the small market teams that drafted them.

If I'm a shrimpy, offense-only PG I'm hopping in that Brinks truck & driving it home quickly. I can't fault him for taking some of Paul Allen's MSFT stock off his hands. I imagine Mr & Mrs. Allen did well on their Blazers investment.

Agree.

Also of course any of those career numbers are going to falsely separate the 2, as it catches all of Carmelo's decline phase while Lilliard's hasn't really even begun.
good point
 

SemperFidelisSox

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OKC is on the second night of a back to back and gave up 141 points to the Warriors without Curry last night. I think Lebron gets the 36 points tonight (by halftime).
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Give Cam Thomas 12 seasons and it will be his. :)
There were questions in the Kyrie thread about his support around the league. I have no idea if they actually liked Kyrie as a person/teammate but Thomas, Sumner and Dru Smith all have to be massive Irving fans.

Thomas can definitely get buckets though.

Also, the NBA is benefitting hugely from Denver being so dominant. With that game all but over in the third, all hoopers eyes will be on the King.
 

ElUno20

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This is the only time in my life I've ever rooted for a laker to do something positive in an nba game. I'm enjoying this, i love lebron. Lebron let's take 50 shots tonight
 

Euclis20

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This is the only time in my life I've ever rooted for a laker to do something positive in an nba game. I'm enjoying this, i love lebron. Lebron let's take 50 shots tonight
Ditto. I'm hoping the Thunder blow this one open and Lebron stays in the game and breaks the record with 3 minutes left, down 25.
 

Kliq

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If Kareem came right out of high school, how many career points would he have? He averaged 29 ppg as a rookie, what would he averaged in those four years he was playing in college? Granted, he was regarded as being perhaps the best high school player ever, and I have little doubt he would have come into the NBA and immediately played at a high level. If he averages 25 ppg over the four years, plays an average of 75 games per year, he has 7,500 more points. Even a more conservative estimate would have him with 5,000 or so more points.

Of course, if he never goes to UCLA is he the same player? He never learns the skyhook, which would be huge. Would the physicality of the NBA be too much for young Lew Alcindor? Or would he thrive and mature faster playing against the best competition in the world? It's an interesting debate.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Ditto. I'm hoping the Thunder blow this one open and Lebron stays in the game and breaks the record with 3 minutes left, down 25.
I’m on the Thunder tonight +6.5 and with a sprinkle on the money line. I love LeBron and want to see this done tonight…..in a Laker loss.
 

InstaFace

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Are they gonna stop the game when he gets it, have a whole ceremony and shit? Because I can absolutely enjoy watching a 15-point Thunder win here, but I ain't sitting through a ceremony.