2019 Knicks: Living On A Prayer

scottyno

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Instead of throw a max at KD they spent more per year on Randle, Portis, and Gibson, seems inefficient
 

InstaFace

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Dunno, if they can really sign Durant and Kyrie, I'm excited to see the kids develop around them. Robinson, Durant, Knox, Barrett, Kyrie, and Smith off the bench, sign me up.
I just want to extend my condolences about your ownership. You and Spike Lee deserve better.
 

TripleOT

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So the Knicks front office and coach want to put together a high character roster, and then they sign Bobby Portis?
 

Sox Puppet

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DOLAN: Who's good on our team?

GM: Well, really nobody, but we have Knox, Barrett, and Mitchell Robinson ... so at least some pieces to work with in our frontcourt.

DOLAN: How about Randle, or Bobby Portis, or a vet like Taj Gibson?

GM: I mean, I guess ... if you want a vet to accompany the guys I just mentioned. Which one?

DOLAN: One? I want all three of them.

GM: Shouldn't we at least try to get a shooting guard?

DOLAN: I hear Frankie Smokes has been working on his shot.
 

TripleOT

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Randle at 3/$64m. Taj at 2/$20m. Portis at 2/$31. Reggie Bullock at 2/$21m.

$57 million for one decent starter and some rotation fill. These short term deals can keep the FA dream alive in two years, but this has to be crushing for Knicks fans. On the bright side, they didn't jam up their books for four years by making two big long term overpays. They still have around $13m in FA money to fill out their roster.
 

jon abbey

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They still have around $13m in FA money to fill out their roster.
Which they just used a lot of to sign the greatest jazz composer of all time, Duke Ellington!!!!

Oh, Wayne Ellington, never mind. 2/16, and the influx of overpriced mediocrity continues...
 

johnmd20

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The Knicks haven't been a consistently great franchise in general, but these past 20 years have been unlike anything you could have expected. One playoff series win in 20 years. ONE! Many wasted seasons. Bad ownership. Scandals. It's a joke, Dolan is possibly the worst owner in sports.
 

jon abbey

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The ticket buyers are completely complicit too, insane that they have been supporting him still in recent years.
 

jon abbey

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Jason Concepcion of The Ringer put it well on Twitter just now:

"Two things are true:

-the Knicks—with young players on the roster, vets on short deals, and draft picks to come—are in good position to rebuild

-they will likely never follow through on the rebuild bc of dolan"
 

Ale Xander

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The Knicks haven't been a consistently great franchise in general, but these past 20 years have been unlike anything you could have expected. One playoff series win in 20 years. ONE! Many wasted seasons. Bad ownership. Scandals. It's a joke, Dolan is possibly the worst owner in sports.
That was Carmelo v. the Celtics, right? Uggggh.
 

ifmanis5

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The Randle signing was good, he's a really good offensive player, but everything since then is a disaster. Why spend so much on mediocre guys? No one is paying to see Ellington and Payton. Just keep the cap space open and they could have made a deal in season. Now they're hands are tied with players that nobody wants. Jason C is lost, even if they are short deals they were deals they didn't have to make. Let the kids play and tank. Appropriate that they filled their cap up with bad players on Bobby Bonilla Day, they really are the Mets.
 

Cellar-Door

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So it has been noted all the deals except Randle are 1+1 so flexibility is built in as is tradeability. Still dumb since taking bad deals would likely bring better assets than trading mediocre vets on short deals
 

bsj

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The Knicks haven't been a consistently great franchise in general, but these past 20 years have been unlike anything you could have expected. One playoff series win in 20 years. ONE! Many wasted seasons. Bad ownership. Scandals. It's a joke, Dolan is possibly the worst owner in sports.
They have refused to "rebuild" for 20 years. Meantime the Celtics have been awful then rebuilt. The Lakers awful, then rebuilt. But they refuse to just go full rebuild. Hell, 2 17 win seasons and they still wont rebuild.
 

OurF'ingCity

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The Randle signing was good, he's a really good offensive player, but everything since then is a disaster. Why spend so much on mediocre guys? No one is paying to see Ellington and Payton. Just keep the cap space open and they could have made a deal in season. Now they're hands are tied with players that nobody wants. Jason C is lost, even if they are short deals they were deals they didn't have to make. Let the kids play and tank. Appropriate that they filled their cap up with bad players on Bobby Bonilla Day, they really are the Mets.
Or, as others have already suggested, if you really feel the need to use up cap space why not seek out deals where you can be the third team in a deal where other teams are looking to unload contracts for matching purposes, etc. - basically what Dallas did (or might be doing) in connection with the Butler-to-Miami deal. At least then you can accumulate some assets in the form of either late-round/protected future picks or players who could be spun off down the road in connection with other, more important deals.
 

nattysez

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Or, as others have already suggested, if you really feel the need to use up cap space why not seek out deals where you can be the third team in a deal where other teams are looking to unload contracts for matching purposes, etc. - basically what Dallas did (or might be doing) in connection with the Butler-to-Miami deal. At least then you can accumulate some assets in the form of either late-round/protected future picks or players who could be spun off down the road in connection with other, more important deals.
100 times this. The Clippers just got a pick for taking on Moe Harkless. Memphis got a pick for taking on one year of Iggy. Meanwhile, the Knicks are putting together a bunch of meh in hopes of dumping them all next year to open cap room to attract an unidentified max player. Terrible work by the Knicks.
 
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ifmanis5

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Or, as others have already suggested, if you really feel the need to use up cap space why not seek out deals where you can be the third team in a deal where other teams are looking to unload contracts for matching purposes, etc. - basically what Dallas did (or might be doing) in connection with the Butler-to-Miami deal. At least then you can accumulate some assets in the form of either late-round/protected future picks or players who could be spun off down the road in connection with other, more important deals.
Absolutely and well said. Just collecting the vig on deals like this can add assets to a war chest. But nope, gotta keep up appearances with Bullock, Ellington and Payton. The whole league is laughing at them.
 

crow216

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Everyone has a point that they could have tried to grab some bad contracts but for the first offseason, they got a bit better, they're still very flexible for when the next superstar throws a tantrum and wants to be traded, and they do have a pretty decent young core. If Barret or Knox hit, the Knicks become a fun team to watch. If they don't, well, they weren't going to tank two seasons in a row.
 

TheDivision

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As a Knicks fan, this off-season is okay. The contracts are reasonable, and I think there has to be some progress towards credibility which the Knicks don't have. They may even be watchable again.
 

jon abbey

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So what is a guess at the lineup?

C: Mitchell Robinson, Bobby Portis
PF: Julius Randle, Taj Gibson
SF: Kevin Knox, Reggie Bullock
SG: RJ Barrett, Wayne Ellington, Alonzo Trier
PG: Elfrid Payton, Dennis Smith Jr, Frank Ntikilina

Am I forgetting anyone?

Payton/Robinson both Louisiana boys, maybe MSG can open a $20 beignet stand.
 

TripleOT

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They're trying to build a culture and play hard, and while they do this, they're hoping a player or two whose rights they control can be developed into a superstar. Considering that the (tied for) seventh worst team just won a franchise player in the new lottery system, maybe rolling out a 33 win team while trying to develop a winning program is the only way to go when your front office knows that its more than apparent that no superstar FA wants any part of James Dolan.
 

caminante11

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Summer league championship is not looking so good. From Rotoworld:

RJ Barrett, who came into Tuesday's game on a 7-of-33 shooting slump in Vegas, hit 6-of-14 shots and a 3-pointer for 17 points, 10 rebounds, six assists, three blocks and just one turnover in 28 minutes.
The shooting still wasn't really there, but at least Knicks fans have a stat line they can get behind from their prized rookie. The Knicks are 0-3 in Vegas and tensions are running high, as the entire team, sans, Summer League invitee Tyler Cavanaugh, went straight to the locker room after the game instead of shaking hands with the Raptors, who were all lined up at half court, waiting to shake hands.
 

ifmanis5

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Dolan is not only ruining the Knicks, he's gone bi-coastal...
Adam Silver tried and failed to pitch a compromise to Dolan and broker a meeting between the Knicks owner and Clippers owner Steve Ballmer.
We're likely a ways away from a Donald T. Sterling situation but this would be another bulletpoint for the memo.
 

InstaFace

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wow, crazy stuff. I hadn't even realized the degree to which Dolan was responsible for squashing the Jets' proposed west side stadium (on what is now the Hudson railyards and various residential towers nearby).

Sounds like Linda Rambis is playing both sides, too.
 

TheDivision

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A good game and good effort in a loss at the Spurs. They were down 16 in the 2nd and up by 6 in the 4th with 8 minutes left. Unfortunately, they unraveled at the end. Morris and Randle (+6) are as advertised, and Barrett will be star (9-13 FG). A missed goaltending call and a couple of shots that went in and out, and the game could’ve been closer. 111-120.
 

TheDivision

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First win of the season and a good one. They were down late by 8 and then went on a 15-0 run to clinch the win. Portis was huge and hit a couple of late 3s to shift momentum.
 

TheDivision

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A bad loss tonight as there was no cohesiveness or chemistry whatsoever. What dooms this team is that they fall behind by double digits early in games. That has to change. Also, hopefully someone steps up and becomes a leader of this team. There's no leader, there's no one to calm them down or for the team to depend on.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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A bad loss tonight as there was no cohesiveness or chemistry whatsoever. What dooms this team is that they fall behind by double digits early in games. That has to change. Also, hopefully someone steps up and becomes a leader of this team. There's no leader, there's no one to calm them down or for the team to depend on.
Barrett is going to be that person (hopefully) but its too much to ask at the start of his career. My measure of the Knicks is how they look after they get everyone back from injury and after Barrett gets some seasoning.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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Knicks think the problem is not showing consistent effort on the court, not, you know, horrible roster construction:
"I think the lack of consistency, that for the most part we've seen it, but you see sporadic efforts, too," Perry said. "That's what we talked about as we sat during this game and one of the reasons we wanted to come out and address you guys. Because we got to be consistent in all areas of the game, starting with the effort."
 

lovegtm

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Barrett is going to be that person (hopefully) but its too much to ask at the start of his career. My measure of the Knicks is how they look after they get everyone back from injury and after Barrett gets some seasoning.
I love Barrett from what I've seen, but I'm not super-optimistic for the Knicks. They hit on Porzingis too and, by all accounts, he was going to sign the qualifying offer rather than take their money. Such a tire-fire; I don't even feel schadenfreude.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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Knicks think the problem is not showing consistent effort on the court, not, you know, horrible roster construction:

Apparently Mills and Perry held the press conference because Dolan ordered them to:
What Mills didn’t say is that he and Dolan spoke at length during halftime of the blowout loss and, according to one source, Dolan told Mills he was “disappointed” with the team’s 2-8 start. The same source said that Dolan ordered his top basketball decision-makers to address the media after the game, which is highly unusual but interesting nonetheless.

If I were a player - or Fizdale - I’d be beyond pissed that the owner basically ordered the front office to call the team out to the press. I’d seriously start considering threatening to sit out games unless Dolan apologized.
 

InstaFace

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there are right ways and wrong ways to make those comments, though.

Right way:
- We're disappointed
- A lot of this depends on team fit and roster construction, which we're responsible for
- Therefore it's on us, and we apologize to the fans
- In the meantime, our coaching staff have done a great job making things fit together and we'd like to applaud them for the work to-date and we expect things to get better the longer they all work together

Wrong way:
- We're disappointed
- The team has shown a lack of consistency and sporadic levels of effort
- [Our players] have to be consistent in their effort
- We'd like everyone to casually ignore that we gutted the team's roster so we could get a top pick, and that top pick is 19 years old and doing pretty well all things considered
 

HowBoutDemSox

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Fizdale looks like he's being setup as the fall guy, expected to get pushed out:
Even before a startling news conference in the wake of a blowout loss to Cleveland on Sunday, New York Knicks president Steve Mills had started to lay the internal groundwork for the eventual dismissal of coach David Fizdale, league sources told ESPN.

Mills is selling owner James Dolan on a roster constructed to be highly competitive in the Eastern Conference, leaving Fizdale vulnerable to an ouster only weeks into the second season of a four-year contract that league sources say is worth $22 million.
 

TripleOT

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Knicks ownership is obviously garbage. Fitzdale has a proven record of getting teams with middling talent to play hard. They have three building blocks, Barrett, Knox, and Robinson, and all three are being productive as they learn to be effective NBA rotation players. Knox is shooting 44% from three, and is scoring around a point every two minutes, good production for a young second year player. Barrett is doing great for a 19 year old. Besides shot blocking and rebounding, Robinson is a top rim running dunker, with a great motor.

Randle and Morris have been solid, productive vets. Portis isn't shooting well, but is rebounding. Put a real PG on this team and they'd probably be at least .500.
 

TheDivision

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Tonight’s loss to the Bulls was courtesy of struggling Coby White who made seven 3-pointers, five straight, in the 4th quarter. Whatever Roy Williams told him before the game probably contributed a bit.
 

TheDivision

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A tough loss tonight, 102-103, at home against the Hornets. I think everyone who watched this game thought they were going to win and enjoy their first winning streak of the year. But despite playing well most of the game, a few dumb mistakes were the difference.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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It was six years ago, but the Atheltic with an amusing article about how Dolan brought in McKinsey to do consulting of some kind for the 2013-14 Knicks team, which seemed to confuse and annoy the entire roster and coaching staff:
Coaches seemed to feel most put-upon. Each one, multiple people said, had to meet with McKinsey & Company representatives at one point during the season. They wanted the coaches to write notes and turn them in. Their presence caused discomfort.

“The whole thing is fucked up,” the former staffer said, and later added: “It was bad. It was fucking crazy shit. It was unique.”

Hopla said every workout he put a player through was followed by rigid note-taking. He was asked to assess the workout based on a stoplight system and fill out a piece of paper by circling red, yellow or green to describe how the workout had gone and the player’s attitude, with room for a write-in comment. It was just an example of what he thought was an overload of paperwork.

Each day, he said, he had to write reports about what he intended to do with a player. An injury report from the team trainer later in the day could scuttle those plans.

At one point during the season, Hopla remembers taking a photo of his hotel room on the road because he couldn’t see the floor underneath the stoplight sheets and the daily reports. He needed two rooms, he joked — one for him and one for the reports.

“It was crazy,” he said. “If we would’ve took all the time writing reports when we could’ve worked the guys out — we missed the playoffs by like one game that year. It had nothing to do with basketball. It was filling out form after form. I wrote a book and I never wrote as much as I did with the New York Knicks.”
He remembers one scene before a game when a McKinsey consultant was sitting courtside, typing, when a basketball ricocheted off the rim and hit his computer. The consultant asked for a heads up.

The basketball court’s no place for a computer, Hopla remembers Amar’e Stoudemire saying.

“There would be a person out on the sideline, whether it’s a game or practice or walking through something, always on the computer, off to the side,” Aldrich said. “It doesn’t make me feel comfortable but in the sense that, ‘Oh, these people are always watching me.’ We’re used to people watching, but on the day-to-day there’s very few people around. There’s players, coaches, trainers and a handful of other people that you’re used to seeing every day. It always was curious to me how you have somebody who was very, very smart, who was very good at what they were doing but as a player’s standpoint never played sports. I guess I hate to stereotype that but looking at the individuals that were on the sidelines, it wasn’t a 6-5 guy who, oh he played football, he played basketball.”
 

TheDivision

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Fizdale has been fired. His description of the team’s effort as “sickening” after their latest loss probably didn’t go well with Dolan. The circus known as the Knicks continues.
 

TheDivision

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Knicks are 3-3 since Fizdale's firing, and one of those losses was by 1 point to the Pacers.
 

Smokey Joe

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In Monday’s Zach-Woj trade season podcast, Woj threw out the news that the reason that the Knicks went after Morris was that it was in retaliation for the Spurs “tampering” with Kristaps Porzingis. I had not heard that previously and it makes sense because that move was a bit of a head scratcher.
 

lovegtm

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In Monday’s Zach-Woj trade season podcast, Woj threw out the news that the reason that the Knicks went after Morris was that it was in retaliation for the Spurs “tampering” with Kristaps Porzingis. I had not heard that previously and it makes sense because that move was a bit of a head scratcher.
They really showed them.
 

Smokey Joe

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I can't tell if the delusional thinking in the Knicks front office was Mills, Perry, or both. If Morris is still there after the deadline we will know that it was probably both.