2019 Dolphins: Can’t Even Tank Right

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rymflaherty

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If you asked me which 1st round QB I’d be least enthused about right now I’d say Herbert, and right or wrong, a big part of that would be due to his size and the track record for QB’s that tall...
Anyways, just heard a clip where Tannenbaum was asked “Tua or Burrow?” and as if a perfect parody, on cue, his response was Herbert. And the thing that enamors him about Herbert is his size.

I don’t fully trust Grier, but I can’t express how happy I am that ass hat Tannenbaum is no longer in the front office. Now maybe I’ll wind up looking like a fool on Herbert, but the majority of time Tannenbaum opens his mouth on ESPN, I just can’t believe he was responsible for running a front office. And then I’m frustrated and saddened that it was my teams.

As for Tannehill, I was always of the belief that there was little difference between him and someone like Matt Ryan, outside of opportunity and circumstance, so nothing he’s doing is surprising. I also think it was the right move to move on from him, because that opportunity and circumstance wasn’t going to be ideal in the near future.

So obviously, Organizational stability plays a huge role, and it was the lack of it that necessitated the tear down. That’s why, while these wins may suck for draft position, the positive is that it would seem to indicate Flores may have been a great hire. The fact this team didn’t implode, and he’s gotten a rag tag group to buy in, improve each week and compete, has been very impressive.
As I said, I wish I could trust Grier more. I wasn’t thrilled when he was retained, as it seemed like the latest in a series of half measures...but the one positive I guess is that Grier was gutsy or smart enough (depending on how you want to look at it) to employ the strategy that he has. I don’t know if this whole process is going to work out, but it’s always made complete sense to me to try, so I guess I have to give him credit for that. Especially in a league that skews toward playing it safe...it would have been easy to keep Tannehill, try to sign a couple guys and once again be one of those teams that winds up between 6-9 wins depending on a few breaks.
 

sodenj5

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For a long time I've assumed why so many can't miss QB's fail, as have others. They're drafted top 5 overall, put in horrible situations, don't get the coaching they need because the coaching sucks, they fire them, rinse and repeat. They have 4-5 coaching changes and offensive systems in the first 5-6 years and never get going.
Tannehill had Philbin, who never bought in to him and reportedly wanted to replace him with Derek Carr, with Mike Sherman, who ran a high school level offense. Then he had Bill Lazer as his O coordinator. Then he had Zac Taylor as Dan Campbell took over. None of these guys ever really believed in or empowered Tannehill.

Then Adam Gase was supposed to come in and solve all of the problems and whisper his QB magic into Tannehill’s ears. But all he did was take the ball out of his hands and lean heavily on the run game. Then Tannehill started breaking down physically.

I think that Tannehill needed a fresh start. Needed to go to a place where there weren’t expectations where he could go in and prove himself. I’m happy he’s doing well. The dude was the epitome of toughness and a professional. Look at his numbers through his first 5 years or so. They aren’t just pretty good. Some of them are literally historically good. Obviously that’s the byproduct of the league presently and playing on bad teams and having to pass a lot, but he was never some chump, just a guy that was not elite but somewhere in the middle that couldn’t elevate bad coaching and bad personnel decisions around him.
 

rymflaherty

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Rooting for this franchise is like rooting for the Sox pre-04’.
The only thing shocking about Tua’s injury is that the Dolphins were no longer likely to get the #1 pick.
Hope somehow that kid is able to play again. for whatever team that may be.
 

sodenj5

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Dolphins win, Redskins win, Bengals win. Basically a great day all around for Miami. Flores continues to maximize the talent on the roster. They had no business winning that game yesterday.

We’ve seen tremendous growth from DeVante Parker and even Mike Gesicki. Gives me a lot of optimism that once Miami actually does have a talented roster, this coaching staff will utilize it effectively, unlike the previous regimes.

Also, Eric Rowe signed a three year extension, which really is more like a one year deal with two options. He’s thrived in the “Minkah role” since Bobby McCain went down. Rowe has been very effective at covering tight ends and playing in a hybrid DB role in this defense. He played very well matched up against Ertz yesterday in man coverage.
 

luckiestman

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Dolphins win, Redskins win, Bengals win. Basically a great day all around for Miami. Flores continues to maximize the talent on the roster. They had no business winning that game yesterday.

We’ve seen tremendous growth from DeVante Parker and even Mike Gesicki. Gives me a lot of optimism that once Miami actually does have a talented roster, this coaching staff will utilize it effectively, unlike the previous regimes.

Also, Eric Rowe signed a three year extension, which really is more like a one year deal with two options. He’s thrived in the “Minkah role” since Bobby McCain went down. Rowe has been very effective at covering tight ends and playing in a hybrid DB role in this defense. He played very well matched up against Ertz yesterday in man coverage.
You guys should give Fitzy a 12 million dollar deal.

Parker is really good. Fish play hard, you need some QB luck.
 

rymflaherty

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^
They signed Fitzpatrick to a two year deal, so he’ll be around next year(if they want) already. It should help transition things whichever way things unfold, whether the team drafts a QB, actually winds up with Tua and his recovery takes a while, or they punt on the position again waiting until 2021.
 

luckiestman

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They signed Fitzpatrick to a two year deal, so he’ll be around next year(if they want) already. It should help transition things whichever way things unfold, whether the team drafts a QB, actually winds up with Tua and his recovery takes a while, or they punt on the position again waiting until 2021.
That was just a joke on how dumb my Jets were when they did that deal. Led to the greatest viral Jets video of all time:
View: https://youtu.be/FftFvwwxD2U
 

rymflaherty

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ahhh...my bad lol
I guess I should have realized even if someone was pleased with the way Fitzpatrick has performed, he shouldn’t be getting 12 m a year.
 

Michelle34B

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Respect to the Dolphins. I loved how they handled the Minkah situation earlier this year, and have completely rebuilt this team with the majority of players being available on waivers since the season began.

Their rushing game seems to have a different guy every week, with their leading rusher on the year being Mark Walton with 201 yards(he was cut for allegedly striking a woman pregnant with his child.). 3rd round pick Michael Deiter and defensive back Eric Rowe are the two constants on the OL and secondary respectively, the rest is mostly made up off of waiver claims and UDFA.

They caught a lot of heat for trading the recent top 10 picks, and plenty of injuries I won't use as excuses because they haven't.


And they keep competing.

Respect to the Dolphins.
 

pdaj

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It’s been a long, hard season — but today’s win went a long way in easing the pain.

As much as I was rooting strategically for an entertaining Miami loss today, combined with wins from the Giants, Lions, and ‘Skins, you just can’t pass up the opportunity to celebrate the Patriots getting tossed out of their Top-2 playoff spot. Considering NE’s stretch of dominance, today’s win has an “end of an era” feel to it.

They’ll likely be talking about this game in NE for a long, long, long time.

Meanwhile, for the Dolphins, I think it’s clear at this point that the organization has found its coach. What Flores has accomplished with this roster is a bit ridiculous. They’re also locked into the #5 pick, which means quarterbacks like Tua and Love will likely still be in play, in addition to a number of other talented options.

Today was a good day.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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Congrats, Miami fans. Played great today.

I do disagree that this game will be talked about for a long time. It'll be more like a footnote in a good but not great (regular) season.
 

Pandemonium67

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Yeah, in the long run this game will be about as non-noteworthy as last year's miracle. If it's the end of an era, it will be because the Pats got old at QB, were a 4-4 team in the 2nd half, and had only one viable weapon (JE11) and he was injured half the time.

I do see the Dolphins as on the rise, along with the Bills and Jets. Next year the AFC East could be very competitive.
 

sodenj5

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Is Brian Flores the one that got away from the Patriots?

The man just took a roster full of scrubs and a dusting of Fitzmagic and out coached Bill Belichick, in his house, with the 2 seed in the line.

It’s going to be a tough look for a lot of people here when Miami actually uses their treasure trove of cap space and draft picks to assemble some talent for Flores to work with.
 

Mystic Merlin

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Is Brian Flores the one that got away from the Patriots?

The man just took a roster full of scrubs and a dusting of Fitzmagic and out coached Bill Belichick, in his house, with the 2 seed in the line.

It’s going to be a tough look for a lot of people here when Miami actually uses their treasure trove of cap space and draft picks to assemble some talent for Flores to work with.
Should they have fired BB to appoint Flores?

Flores wasn’t staying here absent that.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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It’s going to be a tough look for a lot of people here when Miami actually uses their treasure trove of cap space and draft picks to assemble some talent for Flores to work with.
I don't know. That sounds like a scenario from the Jets & Phins that we've seen several cycles in BB's era.

Although AFCE will be tougher than ever, I think it's still a definite "if" and not a "when" for Miami & Flores.
 

luckiestman

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Yeah, in the long run this game will be about as non-noteworthy as last year's miracle. If it's the end of an era, it will be because the Pats got old at QB, were a 4-4 team in the 2nd half, and had only one viable weapon (JE11) and he was injured half the time.

I do see the Dolphins as on the rise, along with the Bills and Jets. Next year the AFC East could be very competitive.
best division in AFC this year I think (just counting wins and not considering strength of schedule; playing NFC East likely helped OR (hear me out) maybe NFC East is so bad cause they had to play AFC East)
 

sodenj5

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Should they have fired BB to appoint Flores?

Flores wasn’t staying here absent that.
Absolutely not. And you’re 100% correct, however we’ve seen plenty of people leave the Patriots organization and fail. The list of failures is longer than the list of successes.

Much like Jimmy G, the Patriots didn’t have much recourse, but it seems like Flores took a bunch of lemons and made lemonade this season.
 

RG33

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Flores has done a really good job getting the Dolphins to be competitive and playing hard. With that said, they are a long way talent-wise from challenging New England or Buffalo in the AFC East.

I get that it is nice to beat your alleged rival in a big game (for them), but the implication that people in New England will remember this game by week 6 next year is kind of silly.

Good luck to the Dolphins winning the offseason, hopefully Flores gets a QB of the future to build around.
 

pdaj

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Congrats, Miami fans. Played great today.

I do disagree that this game will be talked about for a long time. It'll be more like a footnote in a good but not great (regular) season.
Yeah, in the long run this game will be about as non-noteworthy as last year's miracle. If it's the end of an era, it will be because the Pats got old at QB, were a 4-4 team in the 2nd half, and had only one viable weapon (JE11) and he was injured half the time.

I do see the Dolphins as on the rise, along with the Bills and Jets. Next year the AFC East could be very competitive.
No one cares about last year’s “Miracle Play” because the Patriots inevitably won the Super Bowl. But the 2015 loss to Miami that cost them HF advantage in the AFC Championship Game vs. Peyton? That’s cited all the time (and likely will continue to be mentioned) because it very possibly took bling off of TB and BB’s hands.

If this game isn’t talked about in the same manner, I think it’s only because, in hindsight, the majority decide that this team just wasn’t good enough to go the distance, even with the much easier path.

I don’t think there’s any way Flores was passing up a HC opportunity with a 5-year commitment. And if I was Kraft, I’d want Belichick coaching the franchise until he’s no longer able to wheel himself down the sidelines. And, even then, I’m hiring someone to do the pushing.
 

BaseballJones

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Flores has done a really good job getting the Dolphins to be competitive and playing hard. With that said, they are a long way talent-wise from challenging New England or Buffalo in the AFC East.

I get that it is nice to beat your alleged rival in a big game (for them), but the implication that people in New England will remember this game by week 6 next year is kind of silly.
Not silly at all. All depends on what happens to the Pats in the playoffs. If they get beat by Tennessee next week, yeah, we'll all remember this Miami game...pretty much forever. If they go on to win the Super Bowl, we may still remember it (or maybe not) but if we do, it will just be considered an oddity along the way.
 

BaseballJones

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I don't know. That sounds like a scenario from the Jets & Phins that we've seen several cycles in BB's era.

Although AFCE will be tougher than ever, I think it's still a definite "if" and not a "when" for Miami & Flores.
Next year's schedule will be a lot tougher for Miami too, just like it will be for NE, given the divisions they will have to play next year.
 

RG33

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Not silly at all. All depends on what happens to the Pats in the playoffs. If they get beat by Tennessee next week, yeah, we'll all remember this Miami game...pretty much forever. If they go on to win the Super Bowl, we may still remember it (or maybe not) but if we do, it will just be considered an oddity along the way.
It is quite silly. Regardless of what happens next week. If the Pats lose to the Titans, a Miami team that finished 5-4 and played tough and competitively against almost everyone during that stretch, will not be perceived as a huge upset. If they win and lose to KC or Baltimore, so be it. This is a very flawed Patriots team, and this game will not be remembered in the annals of BB and TB12 over about 25 other games that will come to mind first, nevermind for a “long, long, long time.” That is wishcasting from a team’s fan who hasn’t won anything since 1984.
 

BaseballJones

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It is quite silly. Regardless of what happens next week. If the Pats lose to the Titans, a Miami team that finished 5-4 and played tough and competitively against almost everyone during that stretch, will not be perceived as a huge upset. If they win and lose to KC or Baltimore, so be it. This is a very flawed Patriots team, and this game will not be remembered in the annals of BB and TB12 over about 25 other games that will come to mind first, nevermind for a “long, long, long time.” That is wishcasting from a team’s fan who hasn’t won anything since 1984.
It's not silly at ALL. This loss may indeed cost the Patriots a chance at an AFC title. That's not a ridiculous claim at all. Losing the bye and then HFA in the divisional round (if they even get there) is enormous. This game may end up having huge implications for this team.
 

pdaj

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It is quite silly. Regardless of what happens next week. If the Pats lose to the Titans, a Miami team that finished 5-4 and played tough and competitively against almost everyone during that stretch, will not be perceived as a huge upset. If they win and lose to KC or Baltimore, so be it. This is a very flawed Patriots team, and this game will not be remembered in the annals of BB and TB12 over about 25 other games that will come to mind first, nevermind for a “long, long, long time.” That is wishcasting from a team’s fan who hasn’t won anything since 1984.
As a Miami fan from RI and now living/working in MA, there is a little bit of joy in listening to local radio hosts lament previous losses to the Dolphins. However, that result in no way satisfies me as a long-time follower of the team. Whether it happens or not is inconsequential to me. I think that most fans of the team that lost the Super Bowl in 1984 just want to be a sustained contender again.
 

RG33

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It's not silly at ALL. This loss may indeed cost the Patriots a chance at an AFC title. That's not a ridiculous claim at all. Losing the bye and then HFA in the divisional round (if they even get there) is enormous. This game may end up having huge implications for this team.
The poster referenced this game having implications for a “long, long, long time” from an “end of an era” standpoint. That is ridiculously silly.

Yes, for this year’s team, which is obviously heavily flawed and has looked like shit for about 10 weeks, it has implications. But fans of the New England Patriots will not be talking about this game for a “long, long, long time” when they think about the BB and TB12 era. Nobody will remember it.

I will eschew responding to any further strenuous objections.
 

BaseballJones

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The poster referenced this game having implications for a “long, long, long time” from an “end of an era” standpoint. That is ridiculously silly.

Yes, for this year’s team, which is obviously heavily flawed and has looked like shit for about 10 weeks, it has implications. But fans of the New England Patriots will not be talking about this game for a “long, long, long time” when they think about the BB and TB12 era. Nobody will remember it.

I will eschew responding to any further strenuous objections.
As others have pointed out, we still remember other important losses during the BB/TB era. And I originally responded to your claim that we won't be remembering this by week 6 of next year. It's not a Demi Moore "strenuous objection" to say it's not silly that if the Pats bow out next week or on the road at KC, that people will remember this loss for a while.

But hey, if you say so....
 

rymflaherty

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Is Brian Flores the one that got away from the Patriots?

The man just took a roster full of scrubs and a dusting of Fitzmagic and out coached Bill Belichick, in his house, with the 2 seed in the line.

It’s going to be a tough look for a lot of people here when Miami actually uses their treasure trove of cap space and draft picks to assemble some talent for Flores to work with.
I mean, with complete context and as a Fins fan I’m closer to you than what I’m about to type, but you do realize any Pats fan can just respond with , “Matt Patricia”?
One upset won’t mean a lot of they don’t build on it next year.
 

Nick Kaufman

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If the Pats lose to Tenessee, it has nothing to do with the Miami game. Wild card or not, the Pats should take care of business against the Titans.

if they lose to KC, then some would ask about what might have been had the Pats played KC at home.

Either way, it feels that this team isn't good enough and that the era of Pats dominance is ending and IMO that has very little to do with Miami. Having said that, Miami played far better than the record and their fans should be happy for them.

Flores did a great job this season, but if I were a Miami fan, I would want to see multiple seasons of success to feel as if he's the next best thing.
 

NortheasternPJ

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Absolutely not. And you’re 100% correct, however we’ve seen plenty of people leave the Patriots organization and fail. The list of failures is longer than the list of successes.

Much like Jimmy G, the Patriots didn’t have much recourse, but it seems like Flores took a bunch of lemons and made lemonade this season.
So what exactly is the tough look?

The Patriots won’t be dominant forever. 99% of us here know that.
 

BigSoxFan

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Does anyone know what clicked with DeVante Parker this year? He was a legit top 10 WR down the stretch.
 

lars10

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As others have pointed out, we still remember other important losses during the BB/TB era. And I originally responded to your claim that we won't be remembering this by week 6 of next year. It's not a Demi Moore "strenuous objection" to say it's not silly that if the Pats bow out next week or on the road at KC, that people will remember this loss for a while.

But hey, if you say so....
Will they also continue to talk about the chiefs loss too? This game won’t be talked about for a long, long, long time.. it may be mentioned but I think this team getting screwed against kc will he talked about more.

I think most pats fans wouldn’t really fancy their chances against KC away or at home at the moment.
 

lars10

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So what exactly is the tough look?

The Patriots won’t be dominant forever. 99% of us here know that.
I feel like it’s inevitable that at some point Miami will be good as well. But who will be there QB going forward?

edit: and I’m not trying to be snooty.. it feels like they’ve been on the brink for a decade or two and the QB has been the major stumbling block.
 

sodenj5

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Does anyone know what clicked with DeVante Parker this year? He was a legit top 10 WR down the stretch.
I would say it was equal parts Parker finally putting in the effort off the field in terms of treatment, diet and recovery to stay healthy and having a QB like Fitz who will legitimately not give a shit and throw him the 50/50 ball repeatedly.

Apart from the 50/50 ball though, Parker was making catches in traffic on slants, and just being far more physical and making the routine plays on top of the spectacular plays.

Glad that he found his way while still in a Dolphins uniform. He’s always had the potential.
 

pdaj

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Does anyone know what clicked with DeVante Parker this year? He was a legit top 10 WR down the stretch.
In my opinion, it’s been 3 things:

1) Health. Parker had been a little unlucky with injuries throughout the early point of his career. Whenever he seemed to be ascending, he’d get hurt.
2) Quarterback. Parker’s the type of WR you have to trust enough to just toss it up to him, even with the defender on his hip. He’s stellar at pulling down contested balls. That’ll never be an issue with Fitzpatrick. (Edit: Yup, what sodenj5 said.)
3) Coach. He was in Gase’s doghouse last season, for whatever reason. He was inactive at times for being “hurt,” when he was healthy and ready to go. Flores and Parker seemed to click right away.

DeVante’s also 26 now. He seemed a bit immature when he first entered the league. It seems like he “gets it” now.
 

Clears Cleaver

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Does anyone know what clicked with DeVante Parker this year? He was a legit top 10 WR down the stretch.
I think beyond what was already said...Parker was incredibly easy to defend. if you pressed him he became invisible. A total *** at the line. Flores D presses much of the time so he faced it in practice e every day and eventually figured it out.

I drop believe this helped all the Miami receivers today as they torched the press coverage with crossing routes and some fitzmagic (him avoiding the rush and stepping up into the pocket)
 
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InstaFace

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Is Brian Flores the one that got away from the Patriots?

The man just took a roster full of scrubs and a dusting of Fitzmagic and out coached Bill Belichick, in his house, with the 2 seed in the line.

It’s going to be a tough look for a lot of people here when Miami actually uses their treasure trove of cap space and draft picks to assemble some talent for Flores to work with.
Is Matt Patricia the one who got away? How about Josh McDaniels? Eric Mangini? I mean, heck, Mangini did it twice. Dean Pees got us real good a number of times, one of which involved beating Brady and Gronk in their own house to go to the super bowl (and he's coming back to town next week!). Then there's Bill O'Brien just a few weeks ago. Even Romeo Crennel had a 10-win year with the Derek Anderson-led Browns.

I think Flores has made the whole greater than the sum of its parts this year, so despite the W-L record Dolphins fans have a lot to be optimistic about. But I wouldn't go waxing poetic just yet.
 

luckiestman

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Is Matt Patricia the one who got away? How about Josh McDaniels? Eric Mangini? I mean, heck, Mangini did it twice. Dean Pees got us real good a number of times, one of which involved beating Brady and Gronk in their own house to go to the super bowl (and he's coming back to town next week!). Then there's Bill O'Brien just a few weeks ago. Even Romeo Crennel had a 10-win year with the Derek Anderson-led Browns.

I think Flores has made the whole greater than the sum of its parts this year, so despite the W-L record Dolphins fans have a lot to be optimistic about. But I wouldn't go waxing poetic just yet.
Cleveland should have never fired Mangini
 
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Congrats on the win today. I've come to grips with the loss. I'll put a $100 down right now on back to back 7-9(or worse) seasons for the fins.
 
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sodenj5

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Is Matt Patricia the one who got away? How about Josh McDaniels? Eric Mangini? I mean, heck, Mangini did it twice. Dean Pees got us real good a number of times, one of which involved beating Brady and Gronk in their own house to go to the super bowl (and he's coming back to town next week!). Then there's Bill O'Brien just a few weeks ago. Even Romeo Crennel had a 10-win year with the Derek Anderson-led Browns.

I think Flores has made the whole greater than the sum of its parts this year, so despite the W-L record Dolphins fans have a lot to be optimistic about. But I wouldn't go waxing poetic just yet.
The second paragraph is why I’m so optimistic. It isn’t just Flores beating NE. It’s Flores beating NE with a Swiss cheese offensive line, their 4th and 5th string RBs, a starting safety that was a castaway NE CB, a defense largely made of dudes signed off the street, a roster that used more than a league record 80+ players.

After stripping the roster down to the studs and trading away anyone who had a hint of value (Tannehill, Tunsil, Stills, Minkah, Drake) Flores guided this teams to 3 double digit upset wins against Indy, Philly, and at NE.
 

Rice14

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The second paragraph is why I’m so optimistic. It isn’t just Flores beating NE. It’s Flores beating NE with a Swiss cheese offensive line, their 4th and 5th string RBs, a starting safety that was a castaway NE CB, a defense largely made of dudes signed off the street, a roster that used more than a league record 80+ players.

After stripping the roster down to the studs and trading away anyone who had a hint of value (Tannehill, Tunsil, Stills, Minkah, Drake) Flores guided this teams to 3 double digit upset wins against Indy, Philly, and at NE.
I think that Flores has shown that he can get more out of his players than he reasonably should, they play hard and seem prepared. To take the next step(s) though, you still need the players. That remains the question, Grier has not exactly impressed anybody with his recent drafts. If he doesn't hit some home runs, it'll continue to be a 3-4 win team overachieving their way to 5-6 wins.
 

jsinger121

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Shocked that Chad O'Shea got fired after one season in Miami as OC. He had little to work with.
 
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