2015 Giants: To Score or Not to Score?

dcmissle

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It seems to me that Coughlin will revive that d-line or die trying.

If the story is legit, the Redskins' response will be humorous. DEFCON 1.
 

RedOctober3829

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NEW YORK (CBSNewYork) — Might this be Eli Manning’s last season with the Giants?
It might be heresy, but it’s at least possible.
According to an ESPN report, the sides have been unable to work out a long-term extension and the Giants appear to be willing to let the [SIZE=inherit]veteran[/SIZE]quarterback play out the 2015 season, the final year of his contract.
It is believed Manning, 34, is seeking a contract that at the very least rivals the five-year, $99 million deal Ben Roethlisberger agreed to with the Pittsburgh Steelers last week.
 
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2015/03/23/report-giants-may-let-manning-play-out-the-final-year-of-his-contract-in-2015/
 

bakahump

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Denver might need a QB next year.....
 
If he became a Bronco I might actually root for them to win a SB just to make the holidays THAT MUCH more annoying for Peyton.
 
M

MentalDisabldLst

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It's a fair question how much longer the Giants want to commit to him.  He bounced back after a terrible 2013 to have a pretty good 2014, probably his best since 2011.  He's been remarkably durable - has never missed a game since winning the job in 2004.  A very durable, slightly-above-average quarterback is probably worth the $20M he's asking, frankly... I just don't know about the years.
 

Marciano490

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MentalDisabldLst said:
It's a fair question how much longer the Giants want to commit to him.  He bounced back after a terrible 2013 to have a pretty good 2014, probably his best since 2011.  He's been remarkably durable - has never missed a game since winning the job in 2004.  A very durable, slightly-above-average quarterback is probably worth the $20M he's asking, frankly... I just don't know about the years.
 
On the one hand, that receiving corps of theirs can make almost any QB look good.  On the other, you wouldn't want to waste weapons like that on a subpar QB or rookie project.  Eli's serviceable, but the Giants would have to way overpay him based on his name and postseason success luck.
 

theapportioner

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If Eli goes, does Coughlin go as well? Coach is 68, and might not want to be a part of the next rebuild.
 

tims4wins

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BigSoxFan said:
Eli has a career rating of 82.4 and has only had 3 seasons of 90+. Big Beg's career rating is nearly 94. What is the real opportunity cost of letting Eli go? I would balk if I were the Giants.
 
He signs with the Jets and wins another ring
 
Holy god would that be awful on so many levels
 

crystalline

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BigSoxFan said:
Eli has a career rating of 82.4 and has only had 3 seasons of 90+. Big Beg's career rating is nearly 94. What is the real opportunity cost of letting Eli go? I would balk if I were the Giants.
But Big Ben is not replacement level at QB- he's far better than what they could get. Sam Bradford is not even replacement level - the Browns offered the #19 overall pick. Replacement level is Christian Ponder.

Average QBs have a ton of value.
 

alydar

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As much as I hate to re-live the history, the guy has twice brought a team through the wild card round to the Lombardi trophy. Yeah, horseshoe up his ass sideways in the Big  Game, but just getting there twice is no mean feat. He can get hot, and he can get you to the promised land. There aren't that many QBs above him if you include past success in your ranking metric. 
 
As said above, average QBs have a ton of value. Eli is above average. 
 

bankshot1

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I think the franchise tag is the (preferred) fallback plan. Two years of Eli at about $20MM per, may be the most risk the Giants want to incur at this point in Eli's career. 
 

Montana Fan

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Giants could be interesting this year with the revamped offensive line though Flowers has a Hip Flexor.
 
Picture below is presented with comments.  1. Why would they sign him to a $10 million dollar deal and 2. looks like his left hand was burnt too.
 
 

ivanvamp

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Rooting really hard for my guy Geremy Davis to make the roster.  Good football player, incredibly hard worker, high character guy, great kid.  If the Giants cut him I want New England to snap him up.  But I think he makes it with New York.
 

edmunddantes

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Well... If he is willing to wait till they franchise him. He will be highest paid due to escalator rule. If they then franchise him again he'll be even higher. Highly doubt they franchise him again after that as too expensive even with an escalating cap.

So he does have some leverage if he's willing to risk the injury bug.
 

Super Nomario

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Making a pretty good QB roughly the highest-paid player in the game is just what you have to pay them if you want to keep them. We've seen that with Romo, Flacco, Wilson, and now Rivers, and now it might be Eli's turn. If you want to keep them, you have to pony up $25 MM. Don't want to keep them? Have fun with Ryan FItzpatrick. The only noteworthy QBs who have been allowed to leave in recent years are Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, and Alex Smith (OK, one of these is not like the other), who all had heir apparents on the roster, and I guess the Foles / Bradford swap this year.
 
The interesting philosophical question: how bad does the QB have to be where you say, "you know what? I'm cool with Fitzy?" In my head, I call it The Dalton Line.
 

LondonSox

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Eli is a brutal decision here though, he's 35 and while he was good last year he was awful the previous two. You know you need to sign him for 3-4 years really, are you rolling the dice that he can still play above the Dalton line in 3/4 years? Next year sure probably, the year after yeah maybe then it gets pretty uncertain you'd think.
 
But they have nothing else, and if he's any good this year they won't have a high pick. He's always been healthy which matters. Either way seems a big risk, I don't envy them the decision. 
 
This is Eli's last big deal and frankly with the level of QB play elsewhere and his post-season aura, someone is probably giving it to him. So he's not going to settle, and again his injury history helps here as he's probably not worried about playing things out as much as some.
 
I say they keep him, or it's a rebuild (have to let Coughlin go too you'd think)
 

soxfan121

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Super Nomario said:
The interesting philosophical question: how bad does the QB have to be where you say, "you know what? I'm cool with Fitzy?" In my head, I call it The Dalton Line.
 
First, friends don't let friends be cool with Fitzy.
 
Second, I think this'll be known as the Bradford line by mid-October.
 

OCST

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There is a 100% chance he ends up as a Jet if they let him walk.

Which I don't wish for, because good luck hearing about anything else connected with the NFL, ever.
 

Leather

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OilCanShotTupac said:
There is a 100% chance he ends up as a Jet if they let him walk.

Which I don't wish for, because good luck hearing about anything else connected with the NFL, ever.
 
After the last 6 months, that's fine with me.   Fresh air like a fart in a fish factory.
 

RedOctober3829

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OilCanShotTupac said:
There is a 100% chance he ends up as a Jet if they let him walk.

Which I don't wish for, because good luck hearing about anything else connected with the NFL, ever.
He's going to be a Giant next year regardless of he gets a new contract or not.  He'll get franchised if they can't agree to terms.
 

LondonSox

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soxfan121 said:
 
First, friends don't let friends be cool with Fitzy.
 
Second, I think this'll be known as the Bradford line by mid-October.
 
I think Bradford is going to be hurt or a huge success so I think him being just good enough or bad enough to frustrate you both directions and suck you into getting your hopes up before a play-off dashing are unlikely myself. 
He might kill the season but it's likely from injury.
 
Sanchez? Now that we can talk about.
 

NortheasternPJ

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OilCanShotTupac said:
There is a 100% chance he ends up as a Jet if they let him walk.

Which I don't wish for, because good luck hearing about anything else connected with the NFL, ever.
 
Jets giving a 35/36 year old Eli Manning $25 million a year for 4 years or so? Sign me up!
 

StuckOnYouk

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Brutal loss to Dallas tonight, although in hindsight maybe they just need to completely shit the bed and get a top 5 pick and have Coughlin and Reese get booted out the door once and for all. .
 
Of course what usually happens is NY starts off 2-8 and then wins 5 of 6 to give them the 10th-15th pick and the management stays the same.
 

Oil Can Dan

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"As a running back, it's really tough when they tell you not to score," Jennings said.
Which is weird, because if Jennings had scored on first down from the 4-yard line or second down from the 2-yard line after the two-minute warning, as he insists he could have, the Giants would have had a 10-point lead with about 100 seconds left in the game. No amount of Tony Romo magic could have overcome that.
So who was telling him not to score and why? This from Eli Manning may help explain:
"I thought they had used their last timeout on that play to Odell when we got the first down," Manning said. "I thought that they only had one timeout left after that. I guess since there was a penalty, even though we declined it, for some reason that stops the clock."
That is true. By rule, the clock stops on a penalty in the final five minutes of the fourth quarter whether the penalty is declined or accepted. Manning didn't know this, and so he assumed Dallas had called timeout and that the clock would keep running after Jennings' second-down run.
"Bad clock management there," Manning said.
 
 
The word unbelievable gets used way too much, but it's just unbelievable that Eli Manning could possibly have told his RB to not score to take a 10 point lead with under 2 to play.
 

GeorgeCostanza

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Oil Can Dan said:
 
The word unbelievable gets used way too much, but it's just unbelievable that Eli Manning could possibly have told his RB to not score to take a 10 point lead with under 2 to play.
 
Admit it, you got that from The Onion, because we could not have lost 2 Super Bowls to that line of thinking....
 

Stitch01

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That is absolutely incredible.  I guess this is why coaches don't tell players to fall at the 1-yard line more, because they don't grasp the concept and do dumb stuff like that, although even after that kneel 3rd down/kneel 4th down basically wins the game (everyone always runs and kicks on 4th even though you are better off running on 3rd/running on 4th)
 

lostjumper

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BigSoxFan said:
So, the Giants score when they shouldn't (Bradshaw) and don't score when they should. I think a bigger concern for this team is how bad their DL is.
Agrees. Without JPP they were blown off the LOS consistently.
 

nighthob

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BigSoxFan said:
So, the Giants score when they shouldn't (Bradshaw) and don't score when they should. I think a bigger concern for this team is how bad their DL is.
 
In fairness we lost that second one to Wes Welker's 4th quarter yips.
 

Oil Can Dan

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Insult to injury - the Giants team plane was grounded till 4am due to mechanical issues.  Not a fun night to be a Giant.
 

RedOctober3829

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Everybody is killing Eli for what happened on Sunday night but no mention of the defense getting gashed twice.  When it was all said and done, Dallas needed to go 72 yards in 1:34 with no timeouts.  That's on the defense.
 

slowstrung

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StuckOnYouk said:
Brutal loss to Dallas tonight, although in hindsight maybe they just need to completely shit the bed and get a top 5 pick and have Coughlin and Reese get booted out the door once and for all. .
 
Of course what usually happens is NY starts off 2-8 and then wins 5 of 6 to give them the 10th-15th pick and the management stays the same.
I'm curious as to why you want Coughlin gone. He certainly seems to have gotten the most out of Eli over the years and doesn't appear to have hit any kind of age-related wall where the game has passed him by. Two SBs as well as contending teams in most seasons over the last decade. Do you think they just need a fresh voice going forward?
 

RetractableRoof

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RedOctober3829 said:
Everybody is killing Eli for what happened on Sunday night but no mention of the defense getting gashed twice.  When it was all said and done, Dallas needed to go 72 yards in 1:34 with no timeouts.  That's on the defense.
The media is reporting that Eli is also the person who told the RB not to score as well.  So he told the RB not to score, then threw away the 3rd down ball he should have slid with or taken the sack.  That is a major brain fade... by any definition.  You'd like to think that the defense could have stopped Dallas (either of the last two drives) but there is plenty of failure on Eli's part as well.
 

RedOctober3829

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RetractableRoof said:
The media is reporting that Eli is also the person who told the RB not to score as well.  So he told the RB not to score, then threw away the 3rd down ball he should have slid with or taken the sack.  That is a major brain fade... by any definition.  You'd like to think that the defense could have stopped Dallas (either of the last two drives) but there is plenty of failure on Eli's part as well.
Eli screwed up no doubt, but most are glossing over the fact that the offense handed over a 6 point lead with 1:34 left and Dallas having 0 timeouts. Find a way to keep them out of the end zone  and they win. That's all.  It's a total team breakdown not one side over the other.
 

TheoShmeo

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RedOctober3829 said:
Eli screwed up no doubt, but most are glossing over the fact that the offense handed over a 6 point lead with 1:34 left and Dallas having 0 timeouts. Find a way to keep them out of the end zone  and they win. That's all.  It's a total team breakdown not one side over the other.
That's because mental mistakes are always harder to absorb.  Yeah Pedro and Wake gave up the runs, but I'll always think of Grady's Boner when it comes to that game.  
 
The defense blew it, for sure, but Eli's mistakes are harder to process if you're a Giants fan.  Self-inflicted wounds....
 

NortheasternPJ

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RetractableRoof said:
The media is reporting that Eli is also the person who told the RB not to score as well.  So he told the RB not to score, then threw away the 3rd down ball he should have slid with or taken the sack.  That is a major brain fade... by any definition.  You'd like to think that the defense could have stopped Dallas (either of the last two drives) but there is plenty of failure on Eli's part as well.
The media just isn't reporting it. Eli gave a full interview yesterday where he sounded like he didn't understand the concepts of basic football. It was amazing how little of a grasp he had on the situation. He didn't know the score, he didn't know how many timeouts they had and then did as you said above told the RB not to score then pulled that crap. He said he was thinking back to the Patriots Super bowl which was a completely different situation.

The defense definitely got gashed but yikes. Also where the hell were the coaches? Don't they make it clear to him if it's not there to stay in bounds and take a sack?
 

Rook05

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NortheasternPJ said:
The media just isn't reporting it. Eli gave a full interview yesterday where he sounded like he didn't understand the concepts of basic football. It was amazing how little of a grasp he had on the situation. He didn't know the score, he didn't know how many timeouts they had and then did as you said above told the RB not to score then pulled that crap. He said he was thinking back to the Patriots Super bowl which was a completely different situation.

The defense definitely got gashed but yikes. Also where the hell were the coaches? Don't they make it clear to him if it's not there to stay in bounds and take a sack?
This is absolutely right. That whole sequence required failures on multiple levels. The coaches had 2-3 opportunities from timeouts to discuss it, too. Even if Eli already knows, the coaching staff has to tell him exactly what to do. At the end of the day, Jennings public comments forced Eli and Coughlin to admit more than they wanted.
 

johnmd20

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Jennings apologizes for noting that Coughlin and Eli choked.
 
 
On Wednesday, Jennings took to the pages of the New York Post to apologize to Coughlin and Manning.
"I see now how what I said could easily be misunderstood as an expression of resentment,"Jennings wrote. "I make no claims to be a perfect communicator. But I also assure that I had no ill will at all in stating what I did. Yet I admit in retrospect that I should not have shared that information with the world. I chose to do so, and for that choice, I am truly sorry ...
 
 

LondonSox

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Good lord the giants should really be 2-0 and sitting on top of the NFC East and thinking they have real shot with the Eagles looking like roadkill and Romo and Dez out. I'd probably be pretty pissed if I was a Giants fan right now.