The next OC?

Who should be the next Offensive Coordinator for the Patriots?

  • Bill O'Brien

    Votes: 19 6.7%

  • Josh McDaniels

    Votes: 43 15.1%

  • A young, passing game oriented type (e.g., former Patriot Zac Robinson, now on the Rams staff)

    Votes: 194 68.3%

  • A veteran coach, regardless of style, since Mayo's strength is defense

    Votes: 24 8.5%

  • Other

    Votes: 4 1.4%
  • Total voters
    284
Reverse Curve

Reverse Curve

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Interesting summary of the offensive coaching staff, post O'Brien. I was pumped when he came on board as a potential Mac whisperer, but equally glad that he's moved on.

https://www.patspulpit.com/2024/1/19/24043914/bill-obrien-departure-patriots-analysis

I thought McDaniels was a good OC under Belichick, but I don't want him back. Time for a clean break on offense.
I don't fully grasp why Josh has been successful as an OC, but absolutely sucks as a head coach. I know that interpersonal skills seem to be a commonly viewed flaw, but he seemed to be a decent communicator (podium, interviews, body language and overall demeanor with players and staff on sidelines). Curious to hear anyone's thoughts on this.
Lastly, is it time to move away from the Erhardt Perkins scheme on offense?
 
R

RobertS975

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Josh McDaniels has almost certainly made more money from his two head coaching contracts AFTER being fired than he made actually coaching! And then the OC contract money was just double dipping. Josh will get $10 million a year from LV for the next 4 years.
 
teddykgb

teddykgb

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The best reason to go McDaniels is that he probably won’t get another HC offer for a long time so you’d have stability for a rookie QB.

But I can’t look past all the failures of former NE coaches who has tried to implement the Patriots offense without Tom Brady. It just doesn’t seem to be an effective offensive system anymore and so to me you take your medicine and modernize even with the risk that anyone good you hire becomes a departure candidate. Unless McDaniels was being held back by BB and has been studying the other schemes and wants to implement them I just don’t see the point in putting off what seems like an inevitable change
 
snowmanny

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Do you hire a different OC if the QB is Jayden Daniels than you would for, say, Gardner Minshew?

Edit- My assumptions here are Williams/Maye are going 1,2 and the Pats are then either 1) drafting Daniels or 2) doing something else with the pick and signing some veteran to start at QB.
 
DJnVa

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snowmanny said:
Do you hire a different OC if the QB is Jayden Daniels than you would for, say, Gardner Minshew?

Edit- My assumptions here are Williams/Maye are going 1,2 and the Pats are then either 1) drafting Daniels or 2) doing something else with the pick and signing some veteran to start at QB.
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You can't simply because you have no way of knowing how draft will go--they need the OC to be comfortable with either of the 3 if they are going with a QB.
 
jsinger121

jsinger121

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Only one year in the McVay system though. Mostly coached under McDaniels since 2015. Not sure how much he knows about the McVay/Shanahan system in one year though.
 
MuppetAsteriskTalk

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jsinger121 said:
Only one year in the McVay system though. Mostly coached under McDaniels since 2015. Not sure how much he knows about the McVay/Shanahan system in one year though.
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Yes this seems silly to consider him a McVay guy when all his other NFL experience was with the Patriots. (2015-2022)
 
jsinger121

jsinger121

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MuppetAsteriskTalk said:
Yes this seems silly to consider him a McVay guy when all his other NFL experience was with the Patriots. (2015-2022)
Click to expand...
Personally if you want a McVay guy then QB coach/Passing Game Coordinator Zac Robinson is the target. Been with the Rams since 2019.
 
Eck'sSneakyCheese

Eck'sSneakyCheese

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jsinger121 said:
Only one year in the McVay system though. Mostly coached under McDaniels since 2015. Not sure how much he knows about the McVay/Shanahan system in one year though.
Click to expand...
Is one year not enough time to learn an offense? I suppose that would be the focus of the interview. How much have you been able to retain since starting. I have to imagine someone can come away with a lot over a seasons worth of studying a NFL playbook. Especially if that’s what they do all day.
 
lexrageorge

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Eck'sSneakyCheese said:
Is one year not enough time to learn an offense? I suppose that would be the focus of the interview. How much have you been able to retain since starting. I have to imagine someone can come away with a lot over a seasons worth of studying a NFL playbook. Especially if that’s what they do all day.
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Plenty of time. The idea that coaches are rigidly attached to a specific "system" is one of those memes that doesn't make a lot of sense in reality.
 
jsinger121

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boca said:
View: https://twitter.com/albertbreer/status/1749119968149438742?s=46&t=SM8KNBQ5qkrf8EOqnMV5BQ



Sources: Patriots coach Jerod Mayo will interview Rams assistants Nick Caley and Zac Robinson for New England's OC job this week. Caley interviews tomorrow, Robinson interviews on Tuesday.

Caley coached in New England from 2015-22. Robinson played for the Patriots in 2010.
Click to expand...
Robinson to me should be the guy they target. Has coached QB's before and been with McVay for a lot longer.
 
MuppetAsteriskTalk

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I wonder if they are considering bringing both over? Possibly Robinson for OC and Caley for Passing Game Coordinator or Assistant OC or something like that.
 
jsinger121

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MuppetAsteriskTalk said:
I wonder if they are considering bringing both over? Possibly Robinson for OC and Caley for Passing Game Coordinator or Assistant OC or something like that.
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I would do the same. Robinson as the OC/QB coach, Caley for Passing Game Coordinator/assistant QB coach and have Caley ready for when Robinson potentially leaves for an HC job should he have success with the new QB.
 
Van Everyman

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jsinger121 said:
I would do the same. Robinson as the OC/QB coach, Caley for Passing Game Coordinator/assistant QB coach and have Caley ready for when Robinson potentially leaves for an HC job should he have success with the new QB.
Click to expand...
That’s an interesting point. The constant exodus of coordinators makes it really hard to instill a system so building in some redundancy provides some protection.

Of course, that’s a good problem to have because it means other teams are envious of your offense.
 
BigJimEd

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Not sure if being with McVay longer is much of a plus. Caley has more experience overall than Robinson. Robinson was passed over by McVay for Mike LaFleur.

Wouldn't be against hiring either of these guys but really hope they cast a wider net.
 
MuppetAsteriskTalk

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I think Caley's experience (if Wikipedia can be trusted) is just TEs and one year with the FBs, so although he has more experience as counted in years, I'm not sure if that's comparable to Robinson's work as QB coach and passing game coordinator. Especially since we will most likely be breaking in a rookie QB.
 
J

Justthetippett

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This is encouraging. I know these aren't unfamiliar or unexpected names, but after the Patricia/Judge experience, I think it's good they are engaging with consensus quality candidates. The Shanahan offense guys just have things pegged right now. Maybe better to go with that flow instead of trying to outsmart or zig/zag everyone.
 
P

PRabbit

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I've always wondered how much it's money vs being the guy in charge (HC jobs) regarding coordinators.

What's to stop an owner/front office giving an OC/DC a 5m+ per year deal to keep him put?
 
BigJimEd

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MuppetAsteriskTalk said:
I think Caley's experience (if Wikipedia can be trusted) is just TEs and one year with the FBs, so although he has more experience as counted in years, I'm not sure if that's comparable to Robinson's work as QB coach and passing game coordinator. Especially since we will most likely be breaking in a rookie QB.
Click to expand...
I agree Robinson's experience with QBs is a plus. Just pushing back on the working longer under McVay being an advantage. Don't think 5 years under one system is much of a plus. Especially since he was just passed over for that OC job.

Caley does have some experience in college before joining the Pats but yes his experience isn't the most diverse either. That was my poorly worded point and is why I'd like (and expect) them to cast a wider net.
 
DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Justthetippett said:
This is encouraging. I know these aren't unfamiliar or unexpected names, but after the Patricia/Judge experience, I think it's good they are engaging with consensus quality candidates. The Shanahan offense guys just have things pegged right now. Maybe better to go with that flow instead of trying to outsmart or zig/zag everyone.
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They are familiar enough names that they make perfect sense for an organization trying to rebuild itself and yet not too familiar that it feels like yet another band reunion. I loved the core of that band and they churned out a lot of smash hit songs but now its time to modernize our album collection a bit.
 
J

Justthetippett

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PRabbit said:
I've always wondered how much it's money vs being the guy in charge (HC jobs) regarding coordinators.

What's to stop an owner/front office giving an OC/DC a 5m+ per year deal to keep him put?
Click to expand...
The Pats basically did this with McDaniels to keep him from taking the Indy job. (And Irsay took a long, unexplained trip to the bathroom during the visit, if I remember right.)
 
SoxFanInPdx

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This is great news that they’re looking at these names and recognize there needs to be multiple people involved in moving forward. It’s been a while since we’ve had that other than the usual suspects (McDaniels, BoB) and the stink of Patricia still fresh in the minds.

Watching the playoffs, I am optimistic that they can get back in this at a reasonable timeframe. Have these guys evaluate this draft and do what needs to be done to get this team to embrace change and evolve.
 
Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt

Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt

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Bearing in mind that I have NO CLUE about this stuff, I've read a bit about the situation and, based on that, Zac is my #1 choice. His background in that offense, as a QB, as someone who has spent some time working in analytics...seems like a good option with an eye toward upgrading/modernizing the team's offensive approach.
 
joe dokes

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So what happens -here and in the "real world"-- if the "hottest" OC candidate gets hired and then says, "I'm good with Mac as QB."?
 
DJnVa

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joe dokes said:
So what happens -here and in the "real world"-- if the "hottest" OC candidate gets hired and then says, "I'm good with Mac as QB."?
Click to expand...
I have a feeling that will come up in the interview and the OC won't be making any statements like that.
 
MonstahsInLeft

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Waldron definitely seemed like a solid choice but my binkie Robinson is still an option!

That combo of player, analyst, QB guru, and significant experience in the McVay system seems like it checks a LOT of boxes, especially if they’re going to have a new young franchise QB to develop.

Hoping he nails the interview!
 
PedroKsBambino

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DJnVa said:
I have a feeling that will come up in the interview and the OC won't be making any statements like that.
Click to expand...
Supposedly during the Sox 2003 winter managerial search one candidate said something along the lines of "I would have left Pedro in, too"

That was the end of that candidacy, and appropriately so.
 
BigJimEd

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Waldron would have at least been worth a look. Hope they tried to get him in for an interview at least.

MonstahsInLeft said:
Waldron definitely seemed like a solid choice but my binkie Robinson is still an option!

That combo of player, analyst, QB guru, and significant experience in the McVay system seems like it checks a LOT of boxes, especially if they’re going to have a new young franchise QB to develop.

Hoping he nails the interview!
Click to expand...
What makes Robinson a QB guru? Was he working privately with QBs before joining the Rams staff? Just curious as I've seen others refer to him as one as well and I'm not sure why.
Goff has been better the last couple years and his best years with the Rams were before Robinson got there. Stafford's numbers look pretty similar to his Detroit days so where does Robinson get this rep?
 
Last edited:
M

MJM2344

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BigJimEd said:
Waldron would have at least been worth a look. Hope they tried to get him in for an interview at least.


What makes Robinson a QB guru? Was he working privately with QBs before joining the Rams staff? Just curious as I've seen others refer to him as one as well and I'm not sure why.
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"Independent quarterback consultant" according to Lazar.

Along with his NFL coaching experience under McVay since 2019, Robinson worked as an independent quarterback consultant following his playing career. Robinson's work as a quarterback trainer like Tom House or Jordan Palmer makes him an excellent candidate to develop a rookie quarterback. Beyond the Xs and Os, Robinson could help a young Jayden Daniels or Drake Maye with the mechanics, footwork, and other details of the position. Essentially, the next young QB in New England would have a private trainer on staff.
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https://www.patriots.com/news/top-offensive-coordinator-candidates-for-the-patriots-with-bill-o-brien-reportedly-heading-to-ohio-state
 
sezwho

sezwho

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boca said:
View: https://twitter.com/albertbreer/status/1752426016436322758?s=46&t=SM8KNBQ5qkrf8EOqnMV5BQ


Ex-Bears offensive coordinator Luke Getsy is in New England today interviewing with the Patriots and will have a second interview for the Saints OC job tomorrow in New Orleans, per sources.
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Fits what I’m looking for.

Today’s NFL, with an epidemic of poor oline play and limited practice time, requires a QB that can make plays successfully with his legs too.

I want an OC that has experience there, because I for sure want a multi threat QB. I just really hope we can do better than Josh: he seemingly makes an amazing mess without someone telling him what to do… like maybe he’s a creation of both Brady and Bill.
 
GaryPeters71

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From Mike Guardi, Boston Sports Journal:
https://www.bostonsportsjournal.com/2024/01/30/giardi-studs-and-duds-from-day-one-of-the-senior-bowl

The Pats' offensive coordinator search has generated little buzz league-wide:

"I can't stress enough how little buzz the Pats' offensive coordinator search has generated league-wide. Talking to league sources, there's a lot of hemming and hawing about the quality of the position. "Their best playmaker is a 6th round liliputian (Pop Douglas). Sure. Where do I sign up?" says one. Another added, "What does Mayo want them to be? I don't know that anyone knows the answer yet." And finally, "The job looks worse on paper than it did a year ago when Billy (O'Brien) took over. The QB (he was referring to Mac) can't play. They did what (?) with JuJu (Smith-Schuster) and Devante Parker (a sizeable contract for one, an extension for another)? They have some key free agents. It could be rough if they don't hit a home run in the draft." Some of the names they're spoken to, including Luke Getsy, drew shrugs from sources I've talked to here in Alabama."
 
jsinger121

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GaryPeters71 said:
From Mike Guardi, Boston Sports Journal:
https://www.bostonsportsjournal.com/2024/01/30/giardi-studs-and-duds-from-day-one-of-the-senior-bowl

The Pats' offensive coordinator search has generated little buzz league-wide:

"I can't stress enough how little buzz the Pats' offensive coordinator search has generated league-wide. Talking to league sources, there's a lot of hemming and hawing about the quality of the position. "Their best playmaker is a 6th round liliputian (Pop Douglas). Sure. Where do I sign up?" says one. Another added, "What does Mayo want them to be? I don't know that anyone knows the answer yet." And finally, "The job looks worse on paper than it did a year ago when Billy (O'Brien) took over. The QB (he was referring to Mac) can't play. They did what (?) with JuJu (Smith-Schuster) and Devante Parker (a sizeable contract for one, an extension for another)? They have some key free agents. It could be rough if they don't hit a home run in the draft." Some of the names they're spoken to, including Luke Getsy, drew shrugs from sources I've talked to here in Alabama."
Click to expand...
The damage done by Bill to this roster is going to hurt for awhile in trying to recruit other coaches to come here. You can't sugar coat how bad this situation is right now.
 
Cellar-Door

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jsinger121 said:
The damage done by Bill to this roster is going to hurt for awhile in trying to recruit other coaches to come here. You can't sugar coat how bad this situation is right now.
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I doubt it. One of 32 jobs, and you have a wide open roster you'll likely have significant input in building. That's way better than one of the teams who has a bunch of money tied up in bad players. It's not even the worst open OC spot.
 
k-factory

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Given the circumstances is Josh a terrible outcome? Maybe as an advisor with Caley as the OC?
Gives Josh an out when BB finds a gig next year. Too awkward?
 
luckiestman

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k-factory said:
Given the circumstances is Josh a terrible outcome? Maybe as an advisor with Caley as the OC?
Gives Josh an out when BB finds a gig next year. Too awkward?
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Why would Mayo hire Josh. That seems like a weird dynamic unless they were super tight and if they were super tight why didn’t Josh take Mayo to Vegas?
 
IdiotKicker

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Roster turnover in the NFL is huge. Two years from now this could look very different. This isn’t a 5-7 year rebuild. They take a couple years if done right.
 
J

Justthetippett

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GaryPeters71 said:
From Mike Guardi, Boston Sports Journal:
https://www.bostonsportsjournal.com/2024/01/30/giardi-studs-and-duds-from-day-one-of-the-senior-bowl

The Pats' offensive coordinator search has generated little buzz league-wide:

"I can't stress enough how little buzz the Pats' offensive coordinator search has generated league-wide. Talking to league sources, there's a lot of hemming and hawing about the quality of the position. "Their best playmaker is a 6th round liliputian (Pop Douglas). Sure. Where do I sign up?" says one. Another added, "What does Mayo want them to be? I don't know that anyone knows the answer yet." And finally, "The job looks worse on paper than it did a year ago when Billy (O'Brien) took over. The QB (he was referring to Mac) can't play. They did what (?) with JuJu (Smith-Schuster) and Devante Parker (a sizeable contract for one, an extension for another)? They have some key free agents. It could be rough if they don't hit a home run in the draft." Some of the names they're spoken to, including Luke Getsy, drew shrugs from sources I've talked to here in Alabama."
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Pats have a top three pick and lots of cap space, idiots. The defense will make you look good. Seize the opportunity.

Also, this is just lazy, lame ass reporting.
 
BaseballJones

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Cellar-Door said:
I doubt it. One of 32 jobs, and you have a wide open roster you'll likely have significant input in building. That's way better than one of the teams who has a bunch of money tied up in bad players. It's not even the worst open OC spot.
Click to expand...
Yeah this is way overblown. For a young coordinator, getting a chance to install your system and build from the ground up is way better than being a position coach somewhere else.
 
Mystic Merlin

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There are only 32 offensive coordinator positions, and even fewer where the OC actually calls the plays. So buzz or no buzz, there is no reason to think there are fewer talented coaches than available spots. I’d also be interested in hearing who DIDN’T ‘draw shrugs,’ and why.

Without more elaboration that’s a giant shrug of a tidbit. ‘Hey I shot the shit and some guys didn’t think Getsy was an exciting hire.’ Cool.
 
N

NextBigThing8184

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Cellar-Door said:
I doubt it. One of 32 jobs, and you have a wide open roster you'll likely have significant input in building. That's way better than one of the teams who has a bunch of money tied up in bad players. It's not even the worst open OC spot.
Click to expand...
Yeah, maybe it’s not appealing to a 50 year old proven OC (not that there are many of those) but would all of these guys rather be unemployed or toil away as position coaches instead of having a chance to prove themselves and work alongside (hopefully) and elite young QB prospect? Maybe one or two would rather wait it out (Engstrad for example) to see if they can get an internal promotion but I can’t imagine every guy they’re interested in is going to turn down one of a very limited number of opportunities

Which isn’t to say it’s a dream job but the idea that it’s so unappealing that they can’t find a decent candidate seems like a stretch.

Most OC vacancies come with risk - some combination of no QB, talent but pressure to win now, lack of talent, replacing a top guy who left, etc.
 
lexrageorge

lexrageorge

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GaryPeters71 said:
From Mike Guardi, Boston Sports Journal:
https://www.bostonsportsjournal.com/2024/01/30/giardi-studs-and-duds-from-day-one-of-the-senior-bowl

The Pats' offensive coordinator search has generated little buzz league-wide:

"I can't stress enough how little buzz the Pats' offensive coordinator search has generated league-wide. Talking to league sources, there's a lot of hemming and hawing about the quality of the position. "Their best playmaker is a 6th round liliputian (Pop Douglas). Sure. Where do I sign up?" says one. Another added, "What does Mayo want them to be? I don't know that anyone knows the answer yet." And finally, "The job looks worse on paper than it did a year ago when Billy (O'Brien) took over. The QB (he was referring to Mac) can't play. They did what (?) with JuJu (Smith-Schuster) and Devante Parker (a sizeable contract for one, an extension for another)? They have some key free agents. It could be rough if they don't hit a home run in the draft." Some of the names they're spoken to, including Luke Getsy, drew shrugs from sources I've talked to here in Alabama."
Click to expand...
Why would someone who is not interviewing for the position know what Mayo wants them to be? I don’t expect Mayo to post their game plans on the internet. What a dumb quote.

And who cares what “sources” in Alabama think of any particular candidate.

And Mac will not be QB.
 
N

NextBigThing8184

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luckiestman said:
Why would Mayo hire Josh. That seems like a weird dynamic unless they were super tight and if they were super tight why didn’t Josh take Mayo to Vegas?
Click to expand...
It’s not unusual for a new and inexperienced HC to hire an experienced former head coach to coordinate whichever side of the ball isn’t the HC’s expertise. McVey and Wade Phillips, Steichen and Gus Bradley, LaFleur and Mike Pettine as recent examples


I don’t think they need to have been “super tight” for McDaniels to make sense. He’s experienced, has worked with and coached young QB’s before, is a good game planner. For all his flaws, he’s more likely to succeed than Nick Caley or some of the other less interesting guys out there. And at this point, he’s not getting a HC gig any time

If I were Mayo, I would realize my tenure and success as a coach is going to be defined by whether or not the offense can be competitive. To that end, I’d go with a proven and experienced guy who I’m familiar with rather than an unknown who I might have to fire or who might be overwhelmed by the challenge and sink the 2024-25 teams with an incompetent offense.
 
ShaneTrot

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I am amused by that story. The Pats were last in points scored in 2023. They can only go up. Wunderkind OC Ben Johnson was an offensive quality control coach for the Lions in 2019 that no one had heard of. Mayo is a smart guy, he will find someone decent.
 
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