What does 2023 look like?

dhappy42

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Would any of Sale's injuries over the last few years have been prevented if he was in the bullpen instead of starting?
Impossible to say. I assume there’s more stress/wear-and-tear on starting pitchers than relievers, but I suppose that depends on what type of pitcher we’re talking about and the specifics of the relief role. Not to mention the pitchers’s build and durability. Its why relief pitchers have to be “stretched out” to become starters but not vice versa.

I’m not advocating Sale to the bullpen, but rather, thinking out loud about it. It’s probably a bad idea.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Impossible to say. I assume there’s more stress/wear-and-tear on starting pitchers than relievers, but I suppose that depends on what type of pitcher we’re talking about and the specifics of the relief role. Not to mention the pitchers’s build and durability. Its why relief pitchers have to be “stretched out” to become starters but not vice versa.

I’m not advocating Sale to the bullpen, but rather, thinking out loud about it. It’s probably a bad idea.
It's not impossible to say. The rib and the wrist injuries this year had nothing to do with his role on the mound as they happened off the field. The line drive to the finger was a fluke that could just as easily have happened in the 8th inning as the 2nd. Relievers tear their UCL and need Tommy John, or suffer shoulder strain/tendonitis, just as much as starters do. So no, none of his injuries would have been prevented had he been a reliever.

Unless Sale can no longer physically throw ~100 pitches every five days, there is zero benefit for him to be moved to a relief role whether it's as a high-leverage short guy (prototypical setup or closer) or as a multi-inning high-lev guy (in the mold of how Whitlock was used last year). I understand the desire to have reliable, if not shut down guys to hand the ball to in close and late situations, but not at the expense of having reliable pitchers covering the innings that lead up to those close and late spots. Sale is a starter and should remain as such.

In the same vein, I'm still not keen to pigeon-hole Whitlock or Houck into relief roles going forward. Whitlock should be given the chance to break camp in the rotation next spring, and I'd like to see Houck given a look there as well. Maybe there isn't a fit (5-6 guys beat them out) and they go to the bullpen, but it's easier to transition a guy from starting to relieving than it is to go the other way if a need suddenly arises.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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They need to figure out what they want to do with Houck and Whitlock, plan accordingly, and stick with it. If they are in the rotation, than they need to build a pen. If they are in the pen, they need several starters.
 

j-man

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How much is Judge worth? I predict a big bounce-back from Story next year. New town, new baby, broken hand... can't be any worse. Sale to the bullpen is an interesting idea that I've been too afraid to mention here. But it makes some sense, health and durabilty-wise.
well had hal not try to lowball him before the season started 300 mil was a good guess but i heard hal offred 250-275 mil but not 100% knowed but due to judge myp year his value has jumped 50-100 mil
 

dhappy42

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Oct 27, 2013
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well had hal not try to lowball him before the season started 300 mil was a good guess but i heard hal offred 250-275 mil but not 100% knowed but due to judge myp year his value has jumped 50-100 mil
What’s that in AAV and years? 35/10?
 

johnlos

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How about letting Wong play in September; perhaps that would verify whether the Wong that purportedly has made great strides the past couple months can do it at the major league level? Nothing at the ML level so far indicates anything other than him being overmatched.
Dare I saw McGuire's been great. Really like the way he calls a game. Just ushered young Bello through a tough inning. Tied for 10th in WAR/PA for a catcher.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I wonder if Wong's August is catching any eyes in the organization. I wonder if he'll be one of the 2 call ups.

.359/.406/.813 with 8 HRs in 69 PA. Now at .285/.348/.480 in AAA.
 

Mueller's Twin Grannies

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I wonder if Wong's August is catching any eyes in the organization. I wonder if he'll be one of the 2 call ups.

.359/.406/.813 with 8 HRs in 69 PA. Now at .285/.348/.480 in AAA.
Hell, call him up now and cut Plawecki. That way you get an extra person on the roster before tomorrow.
 

Mueller's Twin Grannies

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Is there a need to do this today? Can't they do it anytime in September? Unless your thinking is the post season roster, but that's a moot point now isn't it?
More to give Plawecki a chance to catch on with a contender and clear the way for a prospect. With only two new players to be added, starting tomorrow, letting Plawecki go and calling up Wong or Hernández might have let them effectively call up three guys.

At this point, though, it's clear that isn't happening.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Sox with #24 core in the league

https://www.espn.com/mlb/insider/story/_/id/34482498/which-teams-most-talent-locked-ranking-all-30-mlb-cores


Elite: None

Above Average: Trevor Story/2B, Chris Sale/LHS

Solid: Marcelo Mayer/SS, Brayan Bello/RHS, Nick Pivetta/RHS, Triston Casas/1B, Garrett Whitlock/RHR, Alex Verdugo/LF, John Schreiber/RHR, Christian Arroyo/2B, Ceddanne Rafaela/CF, Jarren Duran/CF, Nick Yorke/2B

Bogaerts will likely opt out this winter to join J.D. Martinez and Nathan Eovaldi in free agency, while Rafael Devers is set to hit free agency after next year, making this one look even worse than I expected. Sale and Story are the two best long-term core pieces on the team and are set to make a combined $47.5 million next year, while former Red Sox star Betts will make just over $25 million next year. Counting on hits in free agency, re-signing Devers and/or Bogaerts, and getting quick returns from Mayer, Bello and Casas has to be the plan, but that's still not a strong hand to be holding relative to their rivals.
 

scottyno

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Ranking cores midseason that arbitrarily don't include players who are free agents after NEXT season, meaning that there are 2 years worth of free agents who are not including anywhere in the rankings, are pretty ridiculous and meaningless.

Also semantics, but they're also arbitrarily deciding what players will or won't opt out, which really means they're leaving even more players out.
 

Harry Hooper

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Fleming on tonight's broadcast was talking about how popular a teammate Plawecki is on the club. There's probably some reluctance to shed both of the original catchers.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Ranking cores midseason that arbitrarily don't include players who are free agents after NEXT season, meaning that there are 2 years worth of free agents who are not including anywhere in the rankings, are pretty ridiculous and meaningless.

Also semantics, but they're also arbitrarily deciding what players will or won't opt out, which really means they're leaving even more players out.

Do you disagree with the conclusion? Where would you place the Sox, esp in relation to the rest of the division?
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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They're going to spend 100 million this offseason and add a lot to espn's made up definition of a core, so yeah

“Counting on hits in free agency, re-signing Devers and/or Bogaerts, and getting quick returns from Mayer, Bello and Casas has to be the plan, but that's still not a strong hand to be holding relative to their rivals”.
 

chawson

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Giving Wacha a QO seems less of a radical move every week.

He’s got about 5-6 starts left (lined up against TB, BAL, KC, NYY, BAL, TB) this season, which would put him at about 22-23 starts and roughly 125 IP. By FanGraphs “value” metric, his season is on pace to be worth about $15-16 million.

Wacha also went long in his comments about potentially staying in Boston, per this MassLive story.

I don’t think he’s anything ultra-special, but I don’t know why you’d quibble over a few million with a guy who likes it here, is proven to play well here, and whose medicals you know very well. Whether he accepts a QO of around $18-19M is another story (and maybe we sign him to a 2- or 3-year deal at a smaller AAV). It’d be a surprise relative to our spring expectations for him, but at this point I think it’s likely.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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He’s had a good year but is his market value really 1 year, $18m? What’s the upside to offering the QO? If they want him long term, negotiate a fair long term value which should be less than 18M per. If they know his medicals and really like him and all that, wouldn’t they want him for more than a year?

It seems to me like offering a QO generally is ideal when you think the guy will reject and you at least can get a pick.

If they want a guy on a one year deal, I’m not sure Wacha at the QO date makes the most sense.
 

scottyno

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“Counting on hits in free agency, re-signing Devers and/or Bogaerts, and getting quick returns from Mayer, Bello and Casas has to be the plan, but that's still not a strong hand to be holding relative to their rivals”.
If you had to rank the 5 AL east teams right now on how many playoff appearances they'll make in the next 5-10 years starting in 2024 would the Sox be last? If not then you're essentially admitting that those core ratings mean nothing because they're going to change a ton soon.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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If you had to rank the 5 AL east teams right now on how many playoff appearances they'll make in the next 5-10 years starting in 2024 would the Sox be last? If not then you're essentially admitting that those core ratings mean nothing because they're going to change a ton soon.
Most likely, yes, based on current talent under control in the majors and minors; I’d probably rank the Sox last in the division. I don’t think that’s really controversial. Who would you have them ahead of?

If they have an absolutely bonkers off-season despite a relatively weak free agent class, sure, that could change pretty quickly.

To envision a super bright Sox future in the next few years imagines a team filled with players currently in other organizations…certainty possible, but requires a lot going right, a series of smart FA signings, trades, and key players developing….which I think the article and rankings acknowledge.
 

scottyno

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Most likely, yes, based on current talent under control in the majors and minors; I’d probably rank the Sox last in the division. I don’t think that’s really controversial. Who would you have them ahead of?

If they have an absolutely bonkers off-season despite a relatively weak free agent class, sure, that could change pretty quickly.

To envision a super bright Sox future in the next few years imagines a team filled with players currently in other organizations…certainty possible, but requires a lot going right, a series of smart FA signings, trades, and key players developing….which I think the article and rankings acknowledge.
I'd absolutely take them over Baltimore and Tampa. They made the playoffs last year, they would have been right in the mix this year with average injuries, and they're going to massively outspend those teams. Really not a lot has to go right when they have that much money to spend, they just need to not spend it terribly and not have terrible injury luck.
 

chawson

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He’s had a good year but is his market value really 1 year, $18m? What’s the upside to offering the QO? If they want him long term, negotiate a fair long term value which should be less than 18M per. If they know his medicals and really like him and all that, wouldn’t they want him for more than a year?

It seems to me like offering a QO generally is ideal when you think the guy will reject and you at least can get a pick.

If they want a guy on a one year deal, I’m not sure Wacha at the QO date makes the most sense.
Why? What do you think would make “the most sense”?

The upside is fairly obvious: signing a good pitcher to 1/$18, which is good, or netting a (fourth round) draft pick, which is also good. It would be the highest single-season salary of his career, so maybe he takes it, and the idea is that it doesn’t bind us in 2024 at all.

You lately stylize so many of your posts as cynical snapshots of the futility of this year’s team, and you reply to other posters’ constructive ideas with mmmm i don’t know about that. I’m sure there are other pitchers we could offer 1/$18 to, but Morton, Heaney, Syndergaard, Kluber and others all turned that down from us in recent years. We have about $80 million to play with. How much is it worth to secure that kind of pitcher? Would it be better to dangle 1/$18 at someone like Eflin or Kluber and cross our fingers that we’re the best offer?
 

sean1562

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I can understand not wanting to give Wacha a QO. He had been terrible the last few years and has only thrown 89 innings last year.

ERA by year
2018 3.20
2019 4.76
2020 6.62
2021 5.05
2022 2.53

He only threw 84 innings in 2018. He would also certainly take an $18 million QO, I highly doubt anyone is giving him some massive deal when he probably will only throw 100 innings or so. I guess it is kind of analogous to Carlos Rodon last season except Rodon's FIP was 2.65 while Wacha's is 3.83. The pitchers who I could see maybe taking a short term offer next offseason are Clevinger, Manea, and Taillon.

2023 rotation of Sale, Pivetta, Whitlock, Houck, Bello/Crawford/Winckowski/Seabold. Or they could go big and sign Rodon. $18 million per year is what a guy like Willson Contreras would get in a long term deal. $18 million could get a few good relievers or they could use that to sign Edwin Diaz,
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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I have no problem bringing Wacha back; but bringing him back on the QO seems less than ideal. If you like him, how about 2/24 or 3/36 or something like that? The QO seems excessive and wouldn’t be discussed if his ERA was closer to his FIP; that’s all I’m saying.
 

BravesField

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Oct 27, 2021
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They're going to spend 100 million this offseason and add a lot to espn's made up definition of a core, so yeah
This is not a real great FA class in regards to the needs on the 2023 roster. Are you sure you want to spend 100 million this off season? If so, where do you want to spend it?
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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I have no problem bringing Wacha back; but bringing him back on the QO seems less than ideal. If you like him, how about 2/24 or 3/36 or something like that? The QO seems excessive and wouldn’t be discussed if his ERA was closer to his FIP; that’s all I’m saying.
Agree with this on Wacha. I’d like him back but I don’t see any team offering QO equivalent one year deals at all. A 2-3 year innings incentive opt in/out at AAV around $12M seems generous
 

chawson

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I have no problem bringing Wacha back; but bringing him back on the QO seems less than ideal. If you like him, how about 2/24 or 3/36 or something like that? The QO seems excessive and wouldn’t be discussed if his ERA was closer to his FIP; that’s all I’m saying.
I mean, sure, a 2/$24 type deal would work too, but the qualifying offer deadline comes before the opening of free agency. So unless we extend Wacha before all that, the QO decision would have to be made before we theoretically outbid other teams and sign him to this team-friendlier deal.

As for his FIP, it's now 3.81, which is just a tick higher than Pablo Lopez and Frankie Montas (3.76).
 
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catsooey

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I think what I worry about most is the decision making of Chaim and whoever else is involved. I don’t even know where they’re going or what they’re trying to accomplish. And if I did, I don’t have any faith that they can make the right decisions to get there. I hope I’m wrong. This organization doesn’t solve problems, they create more of them on top of what they already have. Oddly enough, the trade deadline moves may be one of the few high points, and much of that was just undoing huge mistakes that we inflicted upon ourselves. Chaim reminds me of Tom Hanks in The Money Pit where the house is starting to come together, and then he somehow ends up in the fountain as he effortlessly pulls the whole operation down around him.
 

sean1562

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This is not a real great FA class in regards to the needs on the 2023 roster. Are you sure you want to spend 100 million this off season? If so, where do you want to spend it?
Here is a FA tracker

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/free-agents/

Some players that I think could be interesting on next year's team

SP
Carlos Rodon
Jacob deGrom
Noah Syndegaard(lower FIP than Wacha, probably not going to get some massive contract)
Sean Manea
Mike Clevinger
Michael Wacha

RP
Edwin Diaz
Zack Britton
Michael Fulmer
Archie Bradley

Catcher
Willson Contreras
Christian Vazquez

1B
Jose Abreu
Josh Bell

SS
Xander
Maybe Correa or Swanson but I think Swanson will get a contract larger than he is worth

OF
Joey Gallo
Brandon Nimmo
Michael Conforto
Mitch Haniger
Maybe Benintendi? Not sure how much interest I really have there

DH
JD if he takes a much smaller deal.

If we are dedicated to throwing money around this offseason, we could sign Rodon, Xander, Diaz, Contreras, and Gallo. Nimmo shouldn't command a huge deal and could man CF for a few years if we have given up on Duran. Casas should be our starting 1B next season but Abreu could be an interesting 1B/DH type instead of JDM.
 

YTF

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This is not a real great FA class in regards to the needs on the 2023 roster. Are you sure you want to spend 100 million this off season? If so, where do you want to spend it?
Chaim wasting money needlessly or lining the owner's pockets, we can't have both. ;) That said there does seem to be a lack of FAs that are a level below the "elite" guys which might be a good place to stretch that $100 M and fill some needs. Ideally part of the money can be put toward extending Devers. IF (huge if) X comes back the infield is mostly set with Casas being elevated. Wong/McGuire might be enough behind the plate, Arroyo covers your utility slot and backup 1B doesn't seem as urgent as it was during the current season, but I must say that Trey Mancini interests me as a 1B platoon/RF/DH. Speaking of DH, I really don't care to see the position tied down to an all bat, no glove type of player. I'd much rather see another position player that can allow the DH slot to be used as a place to rotate players as a means to provide a semi day off while not limiting your bench. Chaim MUST find two outfielders who are above average with the bat and the glove. Can Kike' be one of those guys? If Bogaerts isn't back I like the idea of Trea Turner as he may be able to transition into the OF when Mayer is ready. The rotation, y'all can say what you want about Sale, but he's there. I'd like to see a solid #2 type added to the rotation and there are at least 3-4 spots in the pen that need to be addressed. There are a couple of arms in house that seem to be in flux and will need to be settled before Bloom knows what he needs. For planning purposes there needs to be a plan moving forward with Whitlock and Houck.
 
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Red(s)HawksFan

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This is not a real great FA class in regards to the needs on the 2023 roster. Are you sure you want to spend 100 million this off season? If so, where do you want to spend it?
Spending doesn't have to all be on free agents. They can make some trades, especially of the 2-3 prospects for 1 player on the verge of getting expensive variety in order to alleviate a bit of the 40-man roster crunch that's coming.

Speaking of that crunch, it's not unique to the Red Sox. I expect there are going to be more non-tenders than usual this off-season, so the free agent pool as it looks now is going to look different come December. Probably in ways we can't predict right now.
 

moondog80

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It will be very easy to spend 100 mil even if they just limit to one or two year deals, never mind the possibility of extending Devers and/or a SS.
 

scottyno

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Spending doesn't have to all be on free agents. They can make some trades, especially of the 2-3 prospects for 1 player on the verge of getting expensive variety in order to alleviate a bit of the 40-man roster crunch that's coming.

Speaking of that crunch, it's not unique to the Red Sox. I expect there are going to be more non-tenders than usual this off-season, so the free agent pool as it looks now is going to look different come December. Probably in ways we can't predict right now.
It can also go towards extending arb players which would bump up their 2023 salaries.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Isn’t the 40-man crunch not really a thing for the Sox this year? Looks to be more of a “problem” next year and beyond, no?
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Isn’t the 40-man crunch not really a thing for the Sox this year? Looks to be more of a “problem” next year and beyond, no?
They're going to clear at least 8 spots with departing free agents, likely 10 depending on Bogaerts and Pham's options. They've got two guys on the 60-day IL to re-add (Sale and Taylor), possibly three depending on what happens with Paxton. So that's only 6 or so spots opened and at least a half-dozen, if not more rule 5 guys who they will probably want to protect. And then they'll want spots for anyone they intend to add (free agent, trade, rule 5 draft, etc).

Regardless, they're still going to have a glut of rule 5 eligibles whether they protect them or not. Sure, most will probably be left unprotected and won't go anywhere, it just seems like a good use of resources to maybe package a couple of them into a trade for something rather than risk losing a couple for nothing.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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I think that the Sox are in for a lot of hard work over this coming offseason. They have 15 roster spots to fill and while they may have a lot of money, you can't buy 15 really great players with the money they have available (not that I expect them to).

I'm trying to be optimistic, but I don't see how the 2023 Red Sox improve themselves next year in one offseason. I fear that they're going to be worse than this year's team.

I honestly don't know whether it's just better to rip the Band-Aid off in one swoop: field a shit team, play as many kids (there's not a ton, TBH this isn't 2015/16), get under the luxury tax and just ride it out until 2025 or whether they should keep throwing good money after bad, keep swan diving into that dumpster and hope to improve. In other words, I think Bloom has dug himself quite a hole here by focusing so much on the minor leagues and I'm not sure whether the solution is to keep digging or just sit on your shovel and hope that help arrives.
 

chawson

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Isn’t the 40-man crunch not really a thing for the Sox this year? Looks to be more of a “problem” next year and beyond, no?
It's this year, yeah. Full list of eligibility here.

Casas, German, Murphy, Rafaela, Valdez and Walter are locks to be added, I think.

Abreu, Bonaci, Hamilton, Jimenez and Paulino are all tough questions. Bonaci and Hamilton have good enough gloves that they'd probably be taken if exposed. Paulino has had a great year and corresponding rise but is still very young at 20 -- tough call there, but probably yes. Wikelman Gonzalez is the pitching version of this tier, still very young entering his age-21 season, but I think he probably gets added too. Abreu and Jimenez could go either way, but probably not both.

Politi, Wallace and Ward are all interesting arms that could probably help someone's bullpen, same for Bazardo and Kelly who are on the 26 now. Feltman is probably the odd man out.

Then there's Luis de la Rosa, Christian Koss, Eduardo Lopez, Naysbel Marcano and Noah Song, guys we want to keep but probably can't justify adding. (Ryan Fitzgerald has a .595 OPS since June 1 and won't be a factor.)

So that's maybe 11 or 12 players I could make a good case to keep, possibly more if Kelly and/or Bazardo look good this month. A good 3- or 4-for-1 trade or two will help sort this out.
 

Cesar Crespo

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It's this year, yeah. Full list of eligibility here.

Casas, German, Murphy, Rafaela, Valdez and Walter are locks to be added, I think.

Abreu, Bonaci, Hamilton, Jimenez and Paulino are all tough questions. Bonaci and Hamilton have good enough gloves that they'd probably be taken if exposed. Paulino has had a great year and corresponding rise but is still very young at 20 -- tough call there, but probably yes. Wikelman Gonzalez is the pitching version of this tier, still very young entering his age-21 season, but I think he probably gets added too. Abreu and Jimenez could go either way, but probably not both.

Politi, Wallace and Ward are all interesting arms that could probably help someone's bullpen, same for Bazardo and Kelly who are on the 26 now. Feltman is probably the odd man out.

Then there's Luis de la Rosa, Christian Koss, Eduardo Lopez, Naysbel Marcano and Noah Song, guys we want to keep but probably can't justify adding. (Ryan Fitzgerald has a .595 OPS since June 1 and won't be a factor.)

So that's maybe 11 or 12 players I could make a good case to keep, possibly more if Kelly and/or Bazardo look good this month. A good 3- or 4-for-1 trade or two will help sort this out.
Other teams have the same roster crunches. Have those 3 or 4 for 1 deals with Rule 5 eligible players ever happened? It's talked about all the time, but has it ever actually taken place? These guys don't get protected for a reason.
 

jon abbey

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Other teams have the same roster crunches. Have those 3 or 4 for 1 deals with Rule 5 eligible players ever happened? It's talked about all the time, but has it ever actually taken place? These guys don't get protected for a reason.
Recent years have often been unusual, but NY generally does a few of these. The one that comes to mind immediately was when they moved Nick Rumbelow (a AAAA reliever who needed to be protected) to SEA for two low minors pitchers, one of whom they later moved back to SEA in a 1-for-1 deal for half a season of Edwin Encarnacion and the other one was JP Sears, who blossomed this year before NY traded him to OAK in the Montas deal (and he is now in the OAK rotation).

But agreed that people always forget the part that a selecting team has to keep the player on their 26 man roster all year, which is difficult and rarely actually happens. Thus a lot of guys who are eligible don't really need to be protected, especially the ones in A ball or lower.
 

BravesField

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It will be very easy to spend 100 mil even if they just limit to one or two year deals, never mind the possibility of extending Devers and/or a SS.
Now that's something I haven't considered....Only they have to be really elite guys right? I mean Chaim has to explain to JH huge $ even if it is a 1 or 2 year deal.

Frankly I don't see signing Contreras, if he is looking for any type of deal similar to Salvador Perez, which I think was 4 at 82M. And I don't see a SS coming in because, that's where Story is going. I'm just guessing, but when Chaim went to JH about signing Story, the pitch was "He'll be the SS in case X opts out...." I think it could be tough to convince JH to sign a SS and blocking that spot from Mayer.

There will be other spots to spend, and I'm sure we will be buyers, but 100M? I'm still not so sure I see it. If the Sox go out and spend 100M this off season, then it's that much less to spend the following seasons.

I'm hoping the Sox don't spend up to 100M this off season. There's a certain starting pitcher/DH, who will be a free agent after 2023. And I want the Sox to be in a position to be a major player for him.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Now that's something I haven't considered....Only they have to be really elite guys right? I mean Chaim has to explain to JH huge $ even if it is a 1 or 2 year deal.

Frankly I don't see signing Contreras, if he is looking for any type of deal similar to Salvador Perez, which I think was 4 at 82M. And I don't see a SS coming in because, that's where Story is going. I'm just guessing, but when Chaim went to JH about signing Story, the pitch was "He'll be the SS in case X opts out...." I think it could be tough to convince JH to sign a SS and blocking that spot from Mayer.

There will be other spots to spend, and I'm sure we will be buyers, but 100M? I'm still not so sure I see it. If the Sox go out and spend 100M this off season, then it's that much less to spend the following seasons.

I'm hoping the Sox don't spend up to 100M this off season. There's a certain starting pitcher/DH, who will be a free agent after 2023. And I want the Sox to be in a position to be a major player for him.
Adding $100M to the 2023 payroll can have little to no effect on future payrolls if the players are on short enough deals (and no one is saying they're going to spend that money entirely on big long deals). And they certainly aren't going to lock themselves into enough salary this winter that they can't be players for Ohtani in 2024.
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
21,588
Now that's something I haven't considered....Only they have to be really elite guys right? I mean Chaim has to explain to JH huge $ even if it is a 1 or 2 year deal.

Frankly I don't see signing Contreras, if he is looking for any type of deal similar to Salvador Perez, which I think was 4 at 82M. And I don't see a SS coming in because, that's where Story is going. I'm just guessing, but when Chaim went to JH about signing Story, the pitch was "He'll be the SS in case X opts out...." I think it could be tough to convince JH to sign a SS and blocking that spot from Mayer.

There will be other spots to spend, and I'm sure we will be buyers, but 100M? I'm still not so sure I see it. If the Sox go out and spend 100M this off season, then it's that much less to spend the following seasons.

I'm hoping the Sox don't spend up to 100M this off season. There's a certain starting pitcher/DH, who will be a free agent after 2023. And I want the Sox to be in a position to be a major player for him.
Has anyone tried the Josh Reddick JJ Redick strategy in the NBA? Vastly overpay for 1 year of a player.

Offer someone 1/23 who would normally get something like 3/35. Spend the $100 mil that way, so that it becomes available again in 2024. The team might not be super competitive in 2023, but I think that's the case regardless. Plus, if these players on 1 year deals are having really good years and the team is treading water, they can trade them at the deadline for prospects. Seems like a good strategy to me. But I view 2023 as a developmental year.
 

JCizzle

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 11, 2006
20,683
Has anyone tried the Josh Reddick JJ Redick strategy in the NBA? Vastly overpay for 1 year of a player.

Offer someone 1/23 who would normally get something like 3/35. Spend the $100 mil that way, so that it becomes available again in 2024. The team might not be super competitive in 2023, but I think that's the case regardless. Plus, if these players on 1 year deals are having really good years and the team is treading water, they can trade them at the deadline for prospects. Seems like a good strategy to me. But I view 2023 as a developmental year.
Correa and Bauer come to mind. They signed short-term deals with opt-outs for big AAV.
 

Apisith

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 19, 2007
3,218
Bangkok
It’s unlikely that we stay under the tax level next year. If we did, we’d probably win 70ish games and Bloom would be gone, deservedly so. Since so much of our premium prospects are in the lower and middle tier of the minors, it makes sense to spend now to augment the major league team. This is how you ride out the next 2-3 years waiting for the prospects to come through. Spend $270m and try to compete. Better than spending $220m and coming last. If you can’t find enough players in free agency to give money to (really not possible, just throw $45m/year at DeGrom for 3 years), then Bloom should be buying prospects like he did with German and Binelas. Maybe this time he’ll pick a better prospect than Binelas, though.
 

scottyno

late Bloomer
SoSH Member
Dec 7, 2008
11,342
It’s unlikely that we stay under the tax level next year. If we did, we’d probably win 70ish games and Bloom would be gone, deservedly so. Since so much of our premium prospects are in the lower and middle tier of the minors, it makes sense to spend now to augment the major league team. This is how you ride out the next 2-3 years waiting for the prospects to come through. Spend $270m and try to compete. Better than spending $220m and coming last. If you can’t find enough players in free agency to give money to (really not possible, just throw $45m/year at DeGrom for 3 years), then Bloom should be buying prospects like he did with German and Binelas. Maybe this time he’ll pick a better prospect than Binelas, though.
Very confused how a 220m team would win 70 games but a 270m team would win in the mid to high 80s. Are they signing Mike Trout and Prime Barry Bonds with that extra 50m?

If they spend 220m and they win 70 games then pretty much every signing went horribly wrong. That isn't remotely likely.
 

Apisith

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 19, 2007
3,218
Bangkok
Very confused how a 220m team would win 70 games but a 270m team would win in the mid to high 80s. Are they signing Mike Trout and Prime Barry Bonds with that extra 50m?

If they spend 220m and they win 70 games then pretty much every signing went horribly wrong. That isn't remotely likely.
Apologies, I'll be more precise next time. By 70ish games, I meant anything under 80 games (like this year). We've spent $240m this year for what's likely to be 78-79 wins.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 23, 2009
20,932
Maine
It’s unlikely that we stay under the tax level next year. If we did, we’d probably win 70ish games and Bloom would be gone, deservedly so. Since so much of our premium prospects are in the lower and middle tier of the minors, it makes sense to spend now to augment the major league team. This is how you ride out the next 2-3 years waiting for the prospects to come through. Spend $270m and try to compete. Better than spending $220m and coming last. If you can’t find enough players in free agency to give money to (really not possible, just throw $45m/year at DeGrom for 3 years), then Bloom should be buying prospects like he did with German and Binelas. Maybe this time he’ll pick a better prospect than Binelas, though.
I'll ask as well, how would that extra $50M make the difference between last place and "trying to compete"? Who are the players that that $50M goes to that make that much of a difference, and why can't they just get those players with the first $220M, particularly since they've only got about $110M committed so far? I'm not against the team spending more money to win, I just don't understand the implication that $220M isn't enough but $270M is.