That’s not how it works. The D gave up 23 points.Now add back the TD that the Cowboys scored on 3rd down (and the refs missed) before the goal line stand.
That’s not how it works. The D gave up 23 points.Now add back the TD that the Cowboys scored on 3rd down (and the refs missed) before the goal line stand.
Nothing wrong w/taking the 5 yard penalty there.What I hate is that stupid run onto the field late thing with the kicking unit. It ALWAYS ends up with a rushed snap and punt.
Coming into today, they have targeted the TE position on a higher % of pass plays than any other team -- except for KC.The TEs are very good, the OC is not calling plays to target them. The OL is currently in shambles but IMO they have more than enough talent. But they continue to make stupid mistakes and have horrible play calling and it’s fucking killing them.
Jonnu Smith has run 15 total routes the last 2 games. He's basically being used as a mediocre 6th OL now to try and protect the tackles from outside rushes.Speaking of the OL causing cascading failures across the rest of the roster, is there any reason to think that our lackluster TE performances thus far are similarly impacted? Are they helping out the incompetent OTs and not getting to run enough routes? Are they off the field more to get more “quick throw” passes off in more spread sets out of pass protection desperation?
Nope. Not him. Thanks for playing.Can you say hi to Winovich for me?
This is a great point. Every team at the top of the NFL totem pole has someone on offense that you’d classify as a game breaker/big play threat on ANY given play, or at the very least someone that you can depend on to say “this guy is getting the ball in this situation, try and stop it”. The Patriots don’t have anything close to that, and it’s clear as day on short yardage downs when they get super vanilla. This organization cannot move forward until there’s a philosophical change in how the roster is built and that starts with the current head coach and coordinators.I kinda think it’s not going to end well here for BB. You can’t win in the NFL with barely any talent.
Specifically, it’s the OL. You make that an average unit and this is probably an above average offense and playoff team, somewhere in the 10-11 win range.The defense is not the issue, it's an above average scoring D. Our offense is garbage.
I mean... they allowed less points, and less NY/A than DAL averages, that's good, on both a scoring and per-play basis they did pretty well compared with the rest of the league, that's the definition of an above average D. That's what happens when you play a great offense and you're on the field all game. Picking 1 play to judge a defense is monumentally stupid and you know that.They allowed what, 25 first downs today? And 24 yards on 3rd and 25, with the game on the line? It is most assuredly not an above average defense. An above average defense would have actually made a stop or two. They were awful today.
I thought it would have been an achievement if the Cowboys were held to 35. They gave up 23 before OT, not counting the pick-6.They held Dallas to 23 points in regulation. Is there anyone who wouldn’t have taken that going in?
You’re missing the bigger point. That stat is not representative of how they played, particularly down the stretch. And, more importantly, if Mac magically doesn’t throw that pick 6 (and instead the Patriots end up punting), let’s not kid ourselves into believing that the Pats D would have contained the Cowboys offense on the next drive.That’s not how it works. The D gave up 23 points.
You make 8 YPA sound like a lot when Dak came into the game averaging more than that. This Dallas offense is really really good - something that seems to be missing from a lot of posters analysis.You’re missing the bigger point. That stat is not representative of how they played, particularly down the stretch. And, more importantly, if Mac magically doesn’t throw that pick 6 (and instead the Patriots end up punting), let’s not kid ourselves into believing that the Pats D would have contained the Cowboys offense on the next drive.
Saying the D only gave up 23 points completely misses how poorly they played in the second half. Not counting overtime, they gave up 487 yards. They let Dak throw for 374 yards and over 8 YPA in regulation. With a 3 point lead and 31 seconds left in the game, they allowed Dallas to gain 24 yards on 3rd and 25 to get into field position to tie up the game. They generated little to no pressure on Dak all game, looked slow moving laterally, and missed tackles. And they choked late.
They’re top 10 in DVOA. This is what a good defense looks like in today’s NFL.They allowed what, 25 first downs today? And 24 yards on 3rd and 25, with the game on the line? It is most assuredly not an above average defense. An above average defense would have actually made a stop or two. They were awful today.
Blocking affects him as well.Speaking of goats. What the hell is going on with Jake Bailey?
How could you possibly say a team that plays 5 of its first 7 games at home was screwed by the schedule makers? Two months ago we were looking at this stretch as the soft part of the schedule and hoping for a 5-2 start. The Cowboys are better than we expected, but come on.I am getting tired of waking up and seeing this team has lost by a few points to a good team. It is really not clear to me what this team is going to end up like, they really are a few plays away from 5-1 or 1-5. It would not surprise me at all for them to fix the mistakes and end up something like 11-6 or "become the chargers" as was said previously and end up 6-11.
Now I want to just rant a bit about how fucking insane their schedule has been, the schedule makers did them no favors.
They ended up with a schedule that has them playing their 3 hardest opponents outside of the Bills in the first 6 weeks.
They get Tampa, the Cowboys, and Saints, while the Bills get the Steelers, WFT, and KC.
Somehow the first-place schedule is easier this year than the 3rd place schedule.
Cowboys are better than WFT,
San Diego is at least as good if not better than KC
Cleveland is better than Pitt
This team has potential and has been fucked by the schedule makers. If there next 6 were their first 6, it is not hard to see them sitting at 4-2 instead of 2-4 with positive feelings all around.
/Rant over
Anyways the next 6 games are the key to the season, if they can find a way to go 6-0 or 5-1 then they have a shot at the playoffs, but they have left themselves no margin for error with the two Bills games remaining. Again I would not be shocked to see them enter the first Bills game at 8-4 or 4-8. They should beat the Jets and Falcons, I feel like they can beat the Panthers and Titans and would not be surprised to see them beat the Browns or Chargers.
Seriously. They had 5 of the first 7 at home and get to play the Dolphins, Texans and the Jets twice in the first half, three of the worst teams In football. Miami is 1-5 and we all know where the 1 win was. On top of that we have no idea if the Saints are even any good.How could you possibly say a team that plays 5 of its first 7 games at home was screwed by the schedule makers? Two months ago we were looking at this stretch as the soft part of the schedule and hoping for a 5-2 start. The Cowboys are better than we expected, but come on.
It's a rant, it doesn't have a bunch of logic to it.How could you possibly say a team that plays 5 of its first 7 games at home was screwed by the schedule makers? Two months ago we were looking at this stretch as the soft part of the schedule and hoping for a 5-2 start. The Cowboys are better than we expected, but come on.
The Saints are nowhere near one of their 3 hardest games and they'll have played 3 of their 4 easiest games in their first 7. After that, it's a bunch of teams that are either as good as the Pats or better, with the Jags thrown in. The other two easier games are the Falcons and the Dolphins, both on the road. Don't even think they'll be favored in either unless things change dramatically.It's a rant, it doesn't have a bunch of logic to it.
There is no conspiracy theory to it, but if they did not have to play 3 of their hardest games early in the season people's outlook on this team would be much different. Even including the Dolphins, the teams they have lost to have a record of 14 - 9, take out the Dolphins and its 13-4. It's not like they are losing to the sisters of the poor here. You play the games on your schedule, but the schedule turned out to be very difficult at the start which sucks for a team that is trying to build something new.
And the 3rd place teams last year are better than the 1st place teams from last year, that is just the nature of the NFL and it screwed the Pats this year.
There are only two games remaining on the schedule where the Patriots will be favored and that’s the Jets next week and the Jaguars. I honestly don’t see this team winning more than 5 games with the crap talent they have across the board.The Saints are nowhere near one of their 3 hardest games and they'll have played 3 of their 4 easiest games in their first 7. After that, it's a bunch of teams that are either as good as the Pats or better, with the Jags thrown in. The other two easier games are the Falcons and the Dolphins, both on the road. Don't even think they'll be favored in either unless things change dramatically.
Nah, they'll win at least 7 or 8. They'll beat some teams that are a little better than they are, I don't think the game day coaching will be this bad the whole season, they'll turn it around at least a little. I don't think they can hang with Buffalo or with the Chargers on the road (despite last year's blowout), but I wouldn't be surprised to see them beat Cleveland, Tennessee, the Colts or Carolina, for instance. Add two Jets games, a Dolphins game and a Jags game to that mix and they won't pick in the top 10 of the 2022 draft.There are only two games remaining on the schedule where the Patriots will be favored not and that’s the Jets next week and the Jaguars. I honestly don’t see this team winning more than 5 games with the crap talent they have across the board.
I kinda think you are overselling them to win 7-8. While they have BB who will keep them in games they make way too many mistakes for them to win another 5-6 games. They don’t really do anything well on either side of the ball. Let’s also not forget injuries are starting to catch up with them on a team that isn’t very deep to begin with and we only are 6 games in. Basically all I want to see is this team play hard, Mac to look really good and lose a lot of close games to get a top 10 pick.Nah, they'll win at least 7 or 8. They'll beat some teams that are a little better than they are, I don't think the game day coaching will be this bad the whole season, they'll turn it around at least a little. I don't think they can hang with Buffalo or with the Chargers on the road (despite last year's blowout), but I wouldn't be surprised to see them beat Cleveland, Tennessee, the Colts or Carolina, for instance. Add two Jets games, a Dolphins game and a Jags game to that mix and they won't pick in the top 10 of the 2022 draft.
Truly bad teams lose to teams like Dallas and Tampa Bay by multiple scores. Try rooting for Jacksonville sometime. Being in a position to win all these games is evidence that while the Pats are not good, they are also not terrible.What I find the most discouraging is that they’re finding ways to lose. This was a winnable game today and they blew it. Miami was a winnable game and they blew it. Tampa was the same.
I don’t know how on earth they change that. They’re making far too many stupid errors and the coaching has been conservative to the point of self harm.
They gave up 24 on 3rd and 25 to give Dallas the tying FG. I mean what the fuck. That’s unacceptable.
Absolutely agree. This isn't 1985, you don't win by completely shutting the other team down every week. The defense has been good enough to win games, the offense has not.Yeah, in the Patriots 4 losses the defense has allowed:
17 to MIA (who average 17)
21 to NO (who average 25)
19 to TB (who average 33)
23 (in regulation) to DAL (who average 32).
The offense has scored:
16 vs Mia (who give up 31)
13 vs NO (who give up 18) (and it was 6 net since there was a pick 6)
17 vs TB (who give up 24)
29 vs DAL (who give up 23) (it was 23 net because pick 6).
SO in every loss we have held the opponent to less than their average scoring (except MIA where it was a tie)
In every loss except today, we have scored less than the opponent's average surrendered (and if you use net to take into account defensive TDs allowed today was a tie).
The defense is not the issue, it's an above average scoring D. Our offense is garbage.
When you constantly find ways to lose games you're a bad team. Period, end of story. Close games, blowouts, I really don't care. All games are 1 or 2 plays away. Bad teams don't make them, and the Pats are a bad team.Truly bad teams lose to teams like Dallas and Tampa Bay by multiple scores. Try rooting for Jacksonville sometime. Being in a position to win all these games is evidence that while the Pats are not good, they are also not terrible.
Pats are 1-3 in one-score games. You could argue that they’d be 3-3 with average luck, but teams with rookie QBs lose more than their share of those, just as teams with elite QBs win more than their share. I’d say the Pats’ record fairly reflects who they are as a team right now. I certainly don’t agree with the “they could be 5-1” takes.
I’m skeptical that record in one-score games is a good gauge of coaching performance. BB has been good over the course of his career, but I’d submit that’s mostly TB12. Adam Gase was 20-6 in one-score games during his tenure in Miami, so there’s considerable evidence that luck is a major factor in these outcomes (though one could argue maybe that was evidence that Tannehill was a hidden gem, which of course we now know he was.)
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/heres-why-nfl-head-coaches-shouldnt-be-judged-by-their-record-in-one-score-games/
If I had to point to one play that cost them the game, I’d go with the 24-yard completion to Lamb on 3rd-and-25, which set up the tying FG on 4th down. Not sure if that’s on Mills for the coverage, Steve B for dialing up something too soft, or a bit of both. But that’s where I’d look for a goat.
Agreed. Its like the 1993 Patriots over again. Look at that schedule. 5-11 but were in pretty much every game. They won the last 4 games after starting 1-11. Bad team but the seeds were being planted for 94 and 96.When you constantly find ways to lose games you're a bad team. Period, end of story. Close games, blowouts, I really don't care. All games are 1 or 2 plays away. Bad teams don't make them, and the Pats are a bad team.
My issue with the "a couple of plays away from beating Tampa and Dallas" take is that I think you were also a couple of plays away from losing handily to them. I don't think the Pats outplayed either team.When you constantly find ways to lose games you're a bad team. Period, end of story. Close games, blowouts, I really don't care. All games are 1 or 2 plays away. Bad teams don't make them, and the Pats are a bad team.
Both you guys are right. Overall the defense did its job. Dallas’ offense is a monster and they found a way, with not that much help from their own offense or special teams, to hold Dallas to 23 points in regulation.Not the point. With the game on the line, even if they allowed say 15 yards there they win the game. They couldn’t do it.
The defense has consistently found ways to fail all season long. When they’ve needed a stop with the game on the line they’ve failed.
Absolutely not. A good defense has to step up with the balance of the game on the line and all season long they have come up short in such situations. After the fumble in the Miami game, they needed a stop to get the ball back and couldn't get it. They got pushed down the field by both the Saints and Tampa with those games still close, and yesterday just needing to keep Dallas out of FG range they gave up 24 yards. It's inexcusable. It's not one play. It's been the whole season.I mean... they allowed less points, and less NY/A than DAL averages, that's good, on both a scoring and per-play basis they did pretty well compared with the rest of the league, that's the definition of an above average D. That's what happens when you play a great offense and you're on the field all game. Picking 1 play to judge a defense is monumentally stupid and you know that.
I am not as confident that the seeds are being planted for the future. I have very serious issues with the overall philosophy of the team, I think it's looking increasingly outdated. The extreme offensive conservativism, the return to the unwatchable bend but don't break defense, the big slow LBs... that's not how you win in the modern NFL. It's not 2003 any more.Agreed. Its like the 1993 Patriots over again. Look at that schedule. 5-11 but were in pretty much every game. They won the last 4 games after starting 1-11. Bad team but the seeds were being planted for 94 and 96.
From what I see, he’s been playing way off the ball deep on passing plays.I see Mills name a lot in this thread (which is deserved.) But I dont see McCourty's. Perhaps that's because he was invisible. Which is a problem (in my not-informed-by-watching-video opinion).
Did they play 1 high safety or 2? I seem to remember only 1 (McCourty).From what I see, he’s been playing way off the ball deep on passing plays.
I think they have the QB but I think BBs ability to draft real top end talent has been severely lacking. Remember on the podium after super bowl 49 when he said to Edelman and Gronk that it’s a players league and look at us now. You don’t win in this league without players and you don’t win by continuing to play aging veterans who should have been gone already. After this season guys like Hightower, McCourty and KVN should be gone along with Jamie Collins.I am not as confident that the seeds are being planted for the future. I have very serious issues with the overall philosophy of the team, I think it's looking increasingly outdated. The extreme offensive conservativism, the return to the unwatchable bend but don't break defense... that's not how you win in the modern NFL. It's not 2003 any more.
Yeah I think there's more legit debate on some of the other decisions BB made, but the OT punt is just baffling. This is a guy who went for it on his own 28 against the Colts because he could see how obvious it was the defense wasn't stopping the opponent. Not sure what he saw yesterday to think it was different. Esp when the opponent needed only a FG and not a touchdown to beat you.I've learned (mostly) to stay out of these threads because I know how we react here.
That said--you gotta go for it in OT. And after Jonnu's catch on first drive where did he go?
Unlike others, I think there's a lot to like with this team, and Mac seems to do a little more each week, but I think the coaches need to trust these guys more.
I think Cellar addressed this somewhere but, basically, Jonnu is not running routes because the OL is such trash, which is a huge waste of $31M guaranteed. The OL has effectively ruined this season almost single-handedly. The defense hasn't been great but it's been decent enough. The poor OL is impacting everything. Mac is getting bombarded. Jonnu has to stay and block. No running lanes opening. Just a shame.I've learned (mostly) to stay out of these threads because I know how we react here.
That said--you gotta go for it in OT. And after Jonnu's catch on first drive where did he go?
Unlike others, I think there's a lot to like with this team, and Mac seems to do a little more each week, but I think the coaches need to trust these guys more.
Over the long haul, nobody wins a lot more or a lot less than half of those close games, unless they have an elite QB. The Pats are what mediocrity in the NFL looks like.When you constantly find ways to lose games you're a bad team. Period, end of story. Close games, blowouts, I really don't care. All games are 1 or 2 plays away. Bad teams don't make them, and the Pats are a bad team.
I'm not a fan of the hyper-conservative play-calling, especially in today's NFL, but If I was the HC and my OC was doing shit like handing it to Brandon Bolden in high leverage situations I might be a bit gun-shy too.