Ja Morant comes off the DL to wrest the ROY back from the "Paschanimal." 26 points on 14 fga as the Grizz smack down the Ws in SF.
The tank rolls on...
The tank rolls on...
Ha, I'm fully on board with the Celtics going cheap at the 5. And getting most of the offensive production from 1-4.Oh master of the fake trade, tell me that there's a Langford plus fodder and picks trade that Indiana would consider for Turner.
Right--any of Hayward/Brown/Tatum is preferable to Myles Turner imo, but most teams don't have the option to get playmaking big wings who play defense, so Turner would be a plus for them.Ha, I'm fully on board with the Celtics going cheap at the 5. And getting most of the offensive production from 1-4.
The 5 is a dying breed and they'll just keep getting cheaper. Danny can easily add more 5s next season for peanuts. Heck, the poster child is Aron Baynes: cheap, good defense, wipeout screens, can shoot FTs/3s. Frankly, the way Brad was using Horford at the 5 last season I'm glad they didn't match Philly. The Celtics are getting Al's offensive production from Hayward. AND Horford/MaMo defensive combo is easily surpassed by Theis/Brown or Theis/Hayward ...whomever you choose to label as your 4
I guess the question is would you rather have Myles Turner at $18MM or Marcus Smart & Daniel Theis? Neither team does it, and neither would I. BUT some team should grab Turner, he'd be great as the only Center in a lineup just not great paired up with another center (Sabonis).
Selling low on #14 picks because they had some injuries in the first couple months is not what good organizations do. I know the idea would be to get a good player in Turner, but there's no way to give up Langford for anywhere close to value atm. This isn't just about Turner--this applies to any of the trade discussions we'll be having until Romeo can get back on the floor.Oh master of the fake trade, tell me that there's a Langford plus fodder and picks trade that Indiana would consider for Turner.
I should be clear that I have no desire to dump Langford. And I'm in no big hurry to screw with this team either. Just dreaming on Turner.Selling low on #14 picks because they had some injuries in the first couple months is not what good organizations do. I know the idea would be to get a good player in Turner, but there's no way to give up Langford for anywhere close to value atm. This isn't just about Turner--this applies to any of the trade discussions we'll be having until Romeo can get back on the floor.
If the plan is to keep Hayward through his 30-33 seasons (which I think is a fine plan), Smart for Turner is interesting. I love Smart, but I'm starting to think a lot of his value goes away when you have 4 playmakers and a lot of other wings. The problem is that he'd fit perfectly for Indy with Oladipo and Brogdon, and you might be helping a competitor too much. The chemistry hit to the Cs could potentially be awful too.I should be clear that I have no desire to dump Langford. And I'm in no big hurry to screw with this team either. Just dreaming on Turner.
Agreed, Smart would make Indy much better now and by seasons end when Oladipo is back. He'd terrorize the C's for years to come. No thanksIf the plan is to keep Hayward through his 30-33 seasons (which I think is a fine plan), Smart for Turner is interesting. I love Smart, but I'm starting to think a lot of his value goes away when you have 4 playmakers and a lot of other wings. The problem is that he'd fit perfectly for Indy with Oladipo and Brogdon, and you might be helping a competitor too much. The chemistry hit to the Cs could potentially be awful too.
If Turner was -21 and Sabonis was +14 wouldn't that mean they're not on the court together very much? Or that Turner struggles more when Sabonis is off the court?Clippers easily handled the Pacers in Indy tonight
Sabonis 18pt / 22 rebs / 4 assists plus 14
Turner 5pts / 5rebs / -21
Domantas will be part of the All-Star team discussion this year. Turner is struggling with this 2-BIG lineup
Only one player with an A-... on a team that has only lost 5 times (with several injuries to some of their best players) and is second in the conference. And kemba with a B.. ok.Agreed, Smart would make Indy much better now and by seasons end when Oladipo is back. He'd terrorize the C's for years to come. No thanks
I'd much rather have Turner than Kevin Love, due to positional need, defense, age timeline, contract. On paper, Myles would be the perfect fit with our group, yet I would still not do it.
A quarter of the way into the season and it's not hard seeing a 60-win Celtic team with the JB/JT leaps, Utah Gordon, Kemba fit. While developing a plethora of youngsters. I noticed a quarterly report card on the Celtics, by Chris Forsberg, and I found it astounding that players on this team were getting mostly B's and C's. Anything less than an A for Jaylen Brown is bizarre. A B for CBS???
The only one worthy of a C or D this season is the Celtic media/reporters. And a big, fat F for this article
https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/celtics/celtics-report-card-finally-first-quarter-worth-celebrating#slide-1
Tells me that Sabonis got minutes during a good run or Turner got minutes during a bad run or both. I don't think that the single game plus minus is particularly probative.If Turner was -21 and Sabonis was +14 wouldn't that mean they're not on the court together very much? Or that Turner struggles more when Sabonis is off the court?
The reporting around this team is pretty weak, but this article takes the cake.Only one player with an A-... on a team that has only lost 5 times (with several injuries to some of their best players) and is second in the conference. And kemba with a B.. ok.
I agree about Sabonis being more productive and Turner less, and the small sample size being not that relevant, Less sure about BH's narrative that it's because they can't play together. Would love to see a deeper dig into on/off numbers to buy into that.Tells me that Sabonis got minutes during a good run or Turner got minutes during a bad run or both. I don't think that the single game plus minus is particularly probative.
Overall BH main point is valid. Sabonis is more productive this year and Turner is less. Neither is having a shooting renaissance, but the former has clearly passed the latter.
For a shallow dive, they're +5.5 in their shared minutes. Sabonis is +6.6 overall. Those numbers are imperfect, but it's indicative of the main issue: they don't complement each other that well. On defense, you can do a lot of damage by getting both of them into the PnR simultaneously. On offense, there just isn't as much room to work.I agree about Sabonis being more productive and Turner less, and the small sample size being not that relevant, Less sure about BH's narrative that it's because they can't play together. Would love to see a deeper dig into on/off numbers to buy into that.
There isn't enough creation on that team at the moment. It changes when Oladipo gets back and is Oladipo. Sabonis has done a better job of getting by.I agree about Sabonis being more productive and Turner less, and the small sample size being not that relevant, Less sure about BH's narrative that it's because they can't play together. Would love to see a deeper dig into on/off numbers to buy into that.
They struggled playing together last season and in the playoffs against the Celtics. I've been interested in the situation for a while since they both are on attractive contracts and it has been considered a position of need for the C's. I've cooled my jets on either for Boston since I like the approach of going cheap, deep and situational at the 5. There is an interesting supply/demand situation occurring at the Center (5) position across the NBA.I agree about Sabonis being more productive and Turner less, and the small sample size being not that relevant, Less sure about BH's narrative that it's because they can't play together. Would love to see a deeper dig into on/off numbers to buy into that.
You're right.. It did devolve pretty quickly into bench players and rookies.. I got to the first ad..and also saw that Kemba and Smart were listed as Bs and didn't try to go too much further.The reporting around this team is pretty weak, but this article takes the cake.
Besides all the questionable grades there is:
1. no grade for a starter, Daniel Theis
2. no grade for Enis Kanter, who was miscast by the entire media in the preseason
3. no grade for a key early-season reserve, Brad Wanamaker
4. no grade for Semi, who has shown signs of growth
5. no grade for Danny and his off-season moves
6. BUT he grades Romeo Langford, who hasn't played due to injuries but had an excellent G-League game when healthy
7. No mention of Tacko's double-double average at Maine
8. No mention of G-League Player of the Month Tremont Waters or his one excellent game in Boston
9. even Javonte Green has been used in opening quarters a few times this season, but nothing
Where is the editorial control at NBC Sports?
If I'm a Celtic player, I'd have an issue with this type of coverage by the network that owns the games.
Thank goodness for the Port Cellar, by far the best source of information on the Celtics and NBA anywhere
I read it quickly and didn't even notice that BW and DT weren't covered. What nonsense. Who could watch this team and not have a lot to say about those guys?You're right.. It did devolve pretty quickly into bench players and rookies.. I got to the first ad..and also saw that Kemba and Smart were listed as Bs and didn't try to go too much further.
It would be nice if the main outlets covering the team had better reporting for sure. Leaving off Wanamaker and Theis is ridiculous. Seems like he had a bias and wanted to push it.
I don't know what the basis for the grades were.. but what was the curve? A is Gianis? C is average?
The NBA national media does a bad enough job with their misinformation. The local guys are pretty meh.I read it quickly and didn't even notice that BW and DT weren't covered. What nonsense. Who could watch this team and not have a lot to say about those guys?
Maybe a topic for another thread, but I find the Athletic, Celticsblog and Masslive all have pretty great Celtics coverage.Thank goodness for the Port Cellar, by far the best source of information on the Celtics and NBA anywhere
Yeah, the national media seems to have a hard time doing this particular Celtics team right, but in terms of local coverage, we’re spoiled imo.Maybe a topic for another thread, but I find the Athletic, Celticsblog and Masslive all have pretty great Celtics coverage.
I don't watch a ton of the Pacers but my sense of Turner is that he's kind of the same player he was on day one and has never quite taken the leap into two-way franchise anchor that might have been expected of him. Certainly useful but not better enough to justify shifting the team balance significantly. Also a perpetual injury risk given his history.They struggled playing together last season and in the playoffs against the Celtics. I've been interested in the situation for a while since they both are on attractive contracts and it has been considered a position of need for the C's. I've cooled my jets on either for Boston since I like the approach of going cheap, deep and situational at the 5. There is an interesting supply/demand situation occurring at the Center (5) position across the NBA.
I believe both Turner/Sabonis are good 5s but exploitable on the court together. I'm very curious to see how they play versus the Celtics. We will get a first-hand look at how the C's attack teams with size which is kind of important since the Bucks, Philly and Lakers are all teams with large frontcourts.
It's all fact gathering at this point to see how efficient Turner/Sabonis can be together. I'm just skeptical and believe the Pacers would be better served dealing one for a plus wing and using Bitadze/Leaf as depth
I was trying to tell anyone who would listen in the offseason that losing Favors, Rubio and Crowder (not to mention Alec Burks in the earlier Korver trade) would seriously damage their overall team size, toughness, cohesiveness, and defensive soul, but everyone seemed to be drinking the Mike Conley kool-aid and calling them a legit title contender. I also said that if Donovan Mitchell didn't step up his efficiency he was basically "young Monta Ellis with a three ball;" and after a promising start he seems to have regressed to his moderately inefficient ways (.538 TS this season after .541 and .537 the previous two).What happened to the Jazz? Watched the Thunder throttle Utah last night, 104-90 with two Thunder starters (Gallinari & Ferguson) out, and OKC on the second night of a back-to-back. Utah looked seriously discombobulated.
The player comp I never knew I needed until now.Brilliant
The lesser of the two Northern CA teams, lol.Cauley-SteinKingsWarriors
I get that Chriss is starting to show some signs of life in year four, but "would rather keep Marquese Chriss around" is kind of the opposite of an endorsement of WCS.Fixed...
The lesser of the two Northern CA teams, lol.
Fwiw, you can have him. I actually think he'd be a pretty good fit for you for 5-15 minutes a game. Brings the legit 7-foot size that Kanter, TL, and Theis lack; is active on both ends, switches well, and runs the floor like a gazelle; and seems like a chill, likable dude who gets along with everyone. Only reason I'm cool with losing him is that we're up against the hard cap and I want to guarantee Ky Bowman and Marquese Chriss, both of whom I like even more. Plus this season for us is all abouttankingdeveloping the youth.
Just for fun I looked at their stats playing together, they're pretty much above team average across the board except for 3 point rate.They struggled playing together last season and in the playoffs against the Celtics. I've been interested in the situation for a while since they both are on attractive contracts and it has been considered a position of need for the C's. I've cooled my jets on either for Boston since I like the approach of going cheap, deep and situational at the 5. There is an interesting supply/demand situation occurring at the Center (5) position across the NBA.
I believe both Turner/Sabonis are good 5s but exploitable on the court together. I'm very curious to see how they play versus the Celtics. We will get a first-hand look at how the C's attack teams with size which is kind of important since the Bucks, Philly and Lakers are all teams with large frontcourts.
It's all fact gathering at this point to see how efficient Turner/Sabonis can be together. I'm just skeptical and believe the Pacers would be better served dealing one for a plus wing and using Bitadze/Leaf as depth
I don't think they're bad per se with those two. It's more that a) it's a lot of resources/redundancy at one position b) it probably doesn't give a high enough top end to really compete against elite teams. For blowing through the Chicagos and Atlantas and Charlottes of the world and making the playoffs, it's a perfectly cromulent pairing.Just for fun I looked at their stats playing together, they're pretty much above team average across the board except for 3 point rate.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/IND/2020/lineups/#all_lineups_2-man_
I haven't seen them play much so I'm reduced to trying to understand it through stats.
Here is a pretty bullish article on the Pacers:Just for fun I looked at their stats playing together, they're pretty much above team average across the board except for 3 point rate.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/IND/2020/lineups/#all_lineups_2-man_
I haven't seen them play much so I'm reduced to trying to understand it through stats.
0-6 from the field in 22 minutes.Box score anomaly:
Tyler Herro, -30 in a 14 point win. That's an On-off of -74.
This is probably a bit crazy, but Indy with Oladipo scares me more than any of those teams going forward (except maybe the Bucks). If he comes back healthy and they can find a way to move Turner for wing talent, they’re going to match up really well with everyone in the conference.0-6 from the field in 22 minutes.
Meanwhile, Duncan Robinson was 10-14 from three (12-16 overall) and had 34 points, Kendrick Nunn (sorry SRN and Oakland) had 36 points on 14-26 shooting and Bam Adebayo chipped in with 30 points as well as 11 boards and 11 assists.
Miami is kind of scary - they are currently third in the league in eFG% and eighth in differential. If they add another piece or two as has been rumored, they will be a force. Between the Bucks, Celtics, Raptors, 76ers, Heat and -assuming Oladipo returns and is somewhat effective - the Pacers, the East is stacked. And the Nets can pretty much beat anyone on a given night as well.
There are few coaches who make an impact in this NBA. Spoelstra is one of them. Some have a niche with veteran teams and others with getting misfits to overachieve......Spo is right up there with Doc as a guy who can excel in both situations.0-6 from the field in 22 minutes.
Meanwhile, Duncan Robinson was 10-14 from three (12-16 overall) and had 34 points, Kendrick Nunn (sorry SRN and Oakland) had 36 points on 14-26 shooting and Bam Adebayo chipped in with 30 points as well as 11 boards and 11 assists.
Miami is kind of scary - they are currently third in the league in eFG% and eighth in differential. If they add another piece or two as has been rumored, they will be a force. Between the Bucks, Celtics, Raptors, 76ers, Heat and -assuming Oladipo returns and is somewhat effective - the Pacers, the East is stacked. And the Nets can pretty much beat anyone on a given night as well.
I vaguely remember that one of my earliest escapades on this board (during the Heatles days) was being firmly convinced that he was a good coach, while everyone wanted to think he was a LeBron lackey. (Don’t look those posts up; my other opinions of that era were moronic and uninformed).There are few coaches who make an impact in this NBA. Spoelstra is one of them. Some have a niche with veteran teams and others with getting misfits to overachieve......Spo is right up there with Doc as a guy who can excel in both situations.
Bam Adebayo has taken a huge step forward this year. He's a really unique player. Can't really think of a comp.0-6 from the field in 22 minutes.
Meanwhile, Duncan Robinson was 10-14 from three (12-16 overall) and had 34 points, Kendrick Nunn (sorry SRN and Oakland) had 36 points on 14-26 shooting and Bam Adebayo chipped in with 30 points as well as 11 boards and 11 assists.
Miami is kind of scary - they are currently third in the league in eFG% and eighth in differential. If they add another piece or two as has been rumored, they will be a force. Between the Bucks, Celtics, Raptors, 76ers, Heat and -assuming Oladipo returns and is somewhat effective - the Pacers, the East is stacked. And the Nets can pretty much beat anyone on a given night as well.
Robert Williams?Bam Adebayo has taken a huge step forward this year. He's a really unique player. Can't really think of a comp.
Kinda but Bam is much further along and only a few months older. I was thinking more of a finished player than a project. I don't want to use the guy in GS, it seems lazy.Robert Williams?
Yeah, I was mostly kidding. Adebayo is who we can dream RW can be.Kinda but Bam is much further along and only a few months older. I was thinking more of a finished player than a project. I don't want to use the guy in GS, it seems lazy.
edit: Bam for the season 15.3 points, 10.5 boards, 4.4 assists, 1.4 steals, 1.2 blocks in 33.5 minutes on .591/.125/.664 shooting this year.
Montrezl Harrell. Bam is a bit taller and heavier, Harrell a higher motor, if that's even possible. Both guys go after it for sure.Bam Adebayo has taken a huge step forward this year. He's a really unique player. Can't really think of a comp.
not perfect comps but has a similar use/style as Harrell, Sabonis and CapelaBam Adebayo has taken a huge step forward this year. He's a really unique player. Can't really think of a comp.
Yea they don't scare me at the moment.Adebayo built some first step explosiveness this summer that I never remember seeing before.
I'm not real worried about Miami in the playoffs. Spo has them in try hard mode for the 82, which is great, but I just don't think there there's another gear for them. Jimmy's a decent closer, but you can take him away for a possession or two, and nobody else scares me.
As benhogan says, they're only really scary if they add pieces.Adebayo built some first step explosiveness this summer that I never remember seeing before.
I'm not real worried about Miami in the playoffs. Spo has them in try hard mode for the 82, which is great, but I just don't think there there's another gear for them. Jimmy's a decent closer, but you can take him away for a possession or two, and nobody else scares me.
His passing game is at another level than Harrell and Capela, and his defense is at another level than Sabaonis. There probably aren't any perfect comps. Bam is also an OK FT shooter at a career .712 mark and is decent from 10-16 ft. If he adds a reliable 3 point shot, ugh.not perfect comps but has a similar use/style as Harrell, Sabonis and Capela
Check the popcorn machine if you want to know for a single game. But generally (insert clapping emojis as necessary) single game plus minus should be ignored when evaluating player quality.If Turner was -21 and Sabonis was +14 wouldn't that mean they're not on the court together very much? Or that Turner struggles more when Sabonis is off the court?
Hero ball has a new standard.Jarrett Culver's brother scored 100 points last night in an NAIA game:
https://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2019/12/11/21010865/jj-culver-100-points-box-score-photo-jarrett-brother-nba-draft-naia
Nobody else on team took more than 3 shots. He had 9 rebounds and 1 assist.