MLB investigating Padres Over Pomeranz Trade
- Thread starter jon abbey
- Start date
Maybe after you get an adult to answer we can find out what this has to do with Drew Pomeranz? Or what "psychological issues" have to do with Drew Pomeranz? And then let us know when you stopped beating your wife.
I mean, yeah, maybe he has radiation poisoning too, who knows.
If it's not a psychological issue, but it might not be physical, then what's left? Like....a metaphysical issue?
I hadn't considered a metaphysical issue, although I suppose it's possible that Pomeranz's curveball was made effective by a wormhole he can summon, but only over Petco Park, that allowed it to travel slightly forward in the future, just enough to add a few MPH to his velocity. But I have no evidence to back that up.
But really, I'm just wondering what teams are required to disclose when trading a player to another team.
Ok, I completely understand that in the case of Drew Pomeranz the most likely non-disclosure is some sort of already healed minor injury, and that suggesting (even unintentionally) that a psych issue could be involved is a bit unseemly. That said, Hank's question is somewhat interesting in a more general sense - given HIPPA and union rules and all the other privacy complications, what are teams required to hand over to other teams when discussing trades? Do teams have to ask for the documentation? Does the player have to sign off? It's actually an interesting aspect of the inner workings of MLB that you rarely hear about beyond the typical "teams exchanging medicals" talk.
I'm shocked, shocked to find that unfounded speculation is going on in here!
If the fact that it was a joke goes past people, then the joke wasn't nearly as close to obvious as I thought. But it was indeed a joke, sarcasm, snark, take your pick.
Drew Pomernaz had shoulder surgery after last season.
http://m.mlb.com/news/article/153069084/as-drew-pomeranz-may-have-shoulder-surgery/
A "clavicle resection to treat impingement in the AC joint of his throwing shoulder"
Wondering if he has had some discomfort this season which could be the omission.
Looking at the numbers from Brooks Baseball his velocity has been erratic the last month although it bounced back a bit in his last start
http://www.brooksbaseball.net/velo.php?player=519141&b_hand=-1&gFilt=&pFilt=FA|SI|FC|CU|SL|CS|KN|CH|FS|SB&time=month&minmax=ci&var=mph&s_type=2&startDate=03/30/2007&endDate=08/08/2016
Fourseam Sinker Change
3/16 91.78 89.75 84.21
4/16 91.57 89.79 86.72
5/16 92.44 92.19 87.29
6/16 92.10 91.50 86.44
7/16 91.21 87.97 86.13
8/16 92.64 88.61 83.03
http://m.mlb.com/news/article/153069084/as-drew-pomeranz-may-have-shoulder-surgery/
A "clavicle resection to treat impingement in the AC joint of his throwing shoulder"
Wondering if he has had some discomfort this season which could be the omission.
Looking at the numbers from Brooks Baseball his velocity has been erratic the last month although it bounced back a bit in his last start
http://www.brooksbaseball.net/velo.php?player=519141&b_hand=-1&gFilt=&pFilt=FA|SI|FC|CU|SL|CS|KN|CH|FS|SB&time=month&minmax=ci&var=mph&s_type=2&startDate=03/30/2007&endDate=08/08/2016
Fourseam Sinker Change
3/16 91.78 89.75 84.21
4/16 91.57 89.79 86.72
5/16 92.44 92.19 87.29
6/16 92.10 91.50 86.44
7/16 91.21 87.97 86.13
8/16 92.64 88.61 83.03
More details from ESPN
http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/17554327/san-diego-padres-face-discipline-hiding-players-medical-information-mlb-database
http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/17554327/san-diego-padres-face-discipline-hiding-players-medical-information-mlb-database
More at the link.
I'm not getting my hopes up that any players are returned, but wow, their punishment is going to HURT if all that is true.
If they're not punishing the Cardinals for something arguably worse, what makes you think they'll get more than a slap on the wrist?
Well MLB might say that the Cardinals situation was a rogue employee. Whereas this was an organizational move.
Nice to see the Pads adding criminal stupidity to their existing repertoire of plain vanilla stupidity. Organizational growth is always a good thing.
Modifying/unwinding trades seems a pretty tough proposition at this point. I would guess that the league hammers the team, but don't expect any goodies coming back our way.
I wasn't aware that the Cardinal's punishment had been decided yet .. If so any info would be appreciated.
As for the Padres .. This will probably cost them some draft picks plus a big fine plus a stern "don't do it again".
The problem I see is that there is no real consistency amongst teams on the actual record keeping protocol.
Shouldn't some compensation come to the Red Sox? Why shouldn't the aggrieved party receive something back?
Some of the Cardinal front office got jail time for their roll in hacking the Astros. Deterrence is already built in to society to stop people/teams from doing it. MLB has to come down hard on the Padres (as they did on the Sox for the their international signings) or they risk other teams not taking it seriously.
Could you clarify? Because the existence of a centralized medical information sharing system was pretty big news to me. I mean, it sucks that the Mariners don't add good notes to the system, unlike the Yankees, but the simple fact that such a thing exists - and that the Padres devised a scheme to defraud it - seems to invalidate your comment.
Well .. If this is viewed a "guideline" rather than a set in stone protocol then the Padres might say they merely followed the "minimum requirements" of that guideline and shouldn't be punished.
But the real punishment will be the diminished reputation of the Padres FO.
Edit: Preller suspended .. Guess it was set in stone. Wander if some kind of compensation coming our way? I know DD didn't ask for any.
Well, there are three "aggrieved" parties - the Marlins, the White Sox, and the Red Sox - named in the story.
The big issue is that robbing Peter (San Diego) to pay Paul (White, Red or Teal Sox) is problematic for a League that wants to operate 30 franchises. If San Diego operated illegally, they should be punished. But their "crime" is actually against MLB as a whole, not individual franchises. It sounds very much like SD violated the cartel-agreed rules on medical information sharing. There may well be some individual consequences - I think Preller is likely to be punished somehow, and that Rogow will also face sanctions. But I highly doubt the Padres are forced to re-work trades months later.
The Marlins and Padres already re-worked their deal; Dombrowski is on record as saying he does not expect (want?) an alteration, and the White Sox ... well, who gives a shit about the White Sox, amirite?
But if it'll make you happy, I'm willing to write Rob Manfred a letter saying that if he makes the Padres take back that shitty surfboard in exchange for Don Orsillo, we'll no longer consider ourselves "aggrieved."
What? Did you read the Olney piece?
The Padres were adding info to the league-wide system. They were also keeping a second set of books, with "sensitive" information withheld from the main system.
Preller getting suspended is a pretty clear sign that the Padres violated league rules.
Preller's "diminished" reputation will be interesting to track going forward.
What would you have suggested?
Assuming "cover him in honey and make him run through a bear infested forest" was off the table?
I know it would never happen but a true way to stop this type of behavior would be to give the Sox back Anderson Espinoza and let them keep Drew.
That would be the last time a team would ever hide medical information.
I guess it just seems kind of crappy that the Red Sox had the book thrown at them for their international signings but the Padres were allowed to trade damaged goods with no real punishment.
I am sure the Padres' GM will be financially okay when picks up his next paycheck in October.
Well, it doesn't really disincentivize other teams. I don't know if there's a legal mechanism for it, but something like giving the wronged trade partner the option of having the player returned or being awarded the teams' next draft pick would probably keep 'em in line.
There's a better than fair chance the suspension is followed by the Padres shitcanning him, no? I'm not sure how they continue to let him run their player ops if the league as a whole now has a very solid reason not to trust him or want to deal with him.
I think we are talking past each other. I was merely pointing out a possible loophole or excuse the Padres could use. Obviously - given the suspension - the point is moot.
The existence of this database sort of answers a question I asked in the Ask Us Anything thread .. Namely what happens during a medical. So, in this case the Sox trainers get the super secret access code for Pomeranz's medical records .. And find squat (or at least nothing new) since he wasn't on the DL this year.
Nah, the world of GMs sounds like a clubby place, where you can get over stuff like this. Also the Padres would have to replace him, and probably still pay his contract.
Criminal or civil penalties shouldn't have a lick of bearing on the penalties MLB implements, but sorts leagues aren't exactly dialed into such things.
I assume we can't undo the trade and get back Espinoza , but maybe a 2-3 year window to swap a 1st round pick.
Something other than Preller golfing a month earlier than usual.
1. That is insane. MLB is never, ever going to do this - nor should they. MLB has an interest in all 30 teams being competitive. Stripping the Padres of an asset that would allow them to possibly sell tickets and/or win ball games is like... the most short-sighted, selfish, stupid idea I've ever heard.
The problem is a mosquito. You've proposed using a nuclear weapon to solve the mosquito problem. GJGE.
2. There are written rules about international signings and the Red Sox "had the book thrown at them" for knowingly violating the rules. The situations are apples and chainsaws.
I laughed really hard at this. Well done, sir.
Even this goes way, way too far. Again, stripping the Padres of assets is not in the best interests of MLB, or of its 30 owners. Were John Henry or Dave Dombrowski to make such a suggestion it would literally fall under the category of "cutting off your nose to spite your face."
As for "disincentivizing"... well, I would assume that in addition to his 30 day suspension, Preller is now on notice that any future rules violations will result in his permanent ban from baseball. Is that not enough "dis-incentive" for anyone contemplating a future scheme? Get caught, get suspended and be on permanent double-secret probation and one false move away from being banned from your chose career? That's a pretty harsh penalty if you're not fixated on fucking the Padres as hard as possible.
Merely giving the wronged team the ability to cancel the trade - which currently happens - doesn't make things right though. If the trade in question occurs just before the trade deadline, the wronged team loses the ability to trade for a replacement asset.
At the very least it most certainly gave the Padres added leverage in trade discussions. If the Sox knew Pomeranz spent most of the year on the trading table it's highly unlikely Espinoza would have been going the other way.
Also struggling to see how this wasnt worse than the Sox international signings violation though the respective punishments suggest that the Sox' was the greater transgression.
If the entire punishment is 30 days for Preller thats pretty obviously weak, but nothing you can do about it I guess. Still think the organization as a whole should take some kind of punishment as well.
If the entire punishment is 30 days for Preller thats pretty obviously weak, but nothing you can do about it I guess. Still think the organization as a whole should take some kind of punishment as well.
I get that it would never happen and I agree 100% that the idea I mentioned is completely unfair. I apologize for using such gross hyperbole in suggesting alternative punishments.
I actually don't know how you would properly punish a team to provide a disincentive against keeping separate medical records.
Unless Preller has been told he will be banned with a subsequent offense then I don't see how he was properly punished. He completely rebuilt his team's farm system by selling "damaged" goods.
I have not read the rule book but I would at least think there is an understanding that a team should not hide medical info or else he wouldn't have been punished.
I do like the idea of the Pats being forced to give up a pick. That seems to be the de facto NFL response.
Wait... what? Theyre never getting Espinoza back, sure, but... what? Because it would hurt the Padres as a team on the field and selling tickets? You're serious?