White Sox acquire Shark
- Thread starter MakMan44
- Start date
Seeing what it took to get that deal done is kind of depressing.
Unless I'm missing something, it sure looks like the lower-end of what people were projecting in regards to what it would take to get Samardzija.
Doesn't this compare to something along the lines of Cecchini or Marrero and a pitcher not named Owens?
I guess the Sox had no interest in signing Samardzija to a long term deal, because in terms of prospect-value, that doesn't seem bad at all. On the plus side, now I don't have to worry about figuring out how to spell his name.
Unless I'm missing something, it sure looks like the lower-end of what people were projecting in regards to what it would take to get Samardzija.
Doesn't this compare to something along the lines of Cecchini or Marrero and a pitcher not named Owens?
I guess the Sox had no interest in signing Samardzija to a long term deal, because in terms of prospect-value, that doesn't seem bad at all. On the plus side, now I don't have to worry about figuring out how to spell his name.
It was a little better than that but this is the second time it seems Cherington dropped the ball talking to Oakland. Sandoval's deal looks horrendous in the face of what Donaldson was got for.
Cherington is really putting a lot of eggs in the Lester basket...
Cherington is really putting a lot of eggs in the Lester basket...
rymflaherty said:
All indications are that Samardzija isn't interested in signing an extension and that he wants to test the FA market next winter. So whatever team was buying him was only getting one year of service. Maybe the Sox aren't interesting in giving up prospects of any significant value for a one-year rental.
Seems to me that Ken is the Shark.
We know that JS can handle the Windy City, but can he handle the AL?
We know that JS can handle the Windy City, but can he handle the AL?
1) Agree that the risk is that Shark might be a year rental.
2) I think some are underestimating Semien.
Semien had 15 HRs and an .881 OPS in 83 games at AAA as a 23-year-old. The fangraphs folks love him.
2) I think some are underestimating Semien.
Semien had 15 HRs and an .881 OPS in 83 games at AAA as a 23-year-old. The fangraphs folks love him.
Dan to Theo to Ben said:
16 starts, 110 innings, 3.14 ERA, 3.30 FIP, 0.931 WHIP for Oakland. No indication he can't "handle" the AL.
Alright, I will admit I was completely wrong about the return for Shark, and that Billy Beane has actually gone completely insane and/or his scouts value prospects a lot different than the rest of the league.
Seriously, if I were the A's I would have him go for concussion checks.
Seriously, if I were the A's I would have him go for concussion checks.
dynomite said:
He's a fantastic get for the A's, especially is Samardzija becomes a rental. After tearing up AAA, his numbers carried over into a September call-up: .273/.333/.485 with 3 HRs.
NJ_Sox_Fan said:
I don't know how you can say this with any type of certainty. The sense I get is that Beane has specific player targets, and if he gets those players, that's what he's trading for - unless somebody pays well above value with something else. This is like the Donaldson trade, I think, he just valued Semien more than whatever other offers with a shortstop were out there.
I can't say it with any certainty, but it seems like a light return to me.Snoop Soxy Dogg said:
Probably just didn't match up so well with Oakland. The move is for Semien and a 25 year old AAA/MLB starter. While we have a surplus of 25 year old AAAA pitchers, we do not have many players like Semien. He ranked as #91 per BA entering the season, and then destroyed AAA before holding his own in a few MLB at bats playing multiple infield positions. Obviously, our most similar infield prospects (Betts/Swihart) were not going to be included in that deal. Semien is probably similar in value to prospects a tier below Betts/Swihart, someone like Owens or maybe even Ed Rodriguez, but the A's are likely looking for bats. Devers, Margot, etc are too far from the majors to make sense as a centerpiece for Oakland, and why the hell would they want Cespedes for a year?
NJ_Sox_Fan said:
Yeah, to me as well. And I definitely wonder (annoyed, really) why the Sox didn't beat that offer, that would have gone a long way towards assuaging the angst of losing Lester.
But I suspect it has to do with Beane not valuing Marrero (certainly less than Semien), and Boston not willing to pony up what if anything from the farm he valued instead.
Edit: ehaz said it way better than I ever could.
I just said this yesterday. You cannot fault the sox for not trading for Donaldson. I believe it's been reported that the sox have asked multiple times about him and were told he was not available. And a week before he was traded it was reported he was unavailable. I'm guessing by the time the sox found out he was actually available they were deep in discussions with the panda and it would have been bad form to back out.TomRicardo said:
I'm not a fan of the current Sox FO, but let's think about this for a minute. If the return in the Donaldson and Shark trades is light, should the conclusion be that other FOs "screwed up," or that Beane, for whatever reason, focused on the particular players he got rather than telling the world that these guys were available and getting the best possible return for both players?
I think the latter has to be the answer. Is there any team (other than maybe the Dodgers) who doesn't need a pitcher of Shark's caliber? There are probably a dozen teams that desperately needed a 3b going into the off-season -- wouldn't one of them trumped the Jays' offer if given the chance?
The question in the title of the other thread remains unanswered: what is Beane doing? Why is he not doing everything he can to get the best possible return for his guys? Or is he doing so, but doing it very quietly? I'm baffled.
I think the latter has to be the answer. Is there any team (other than maybe the Dodgers) who doesn't need a pitcher of Shark's caliber? There are probably a dozen teams that desperately needed a 3b going into the off-season -- wouldn't one of them trumped the Jays' offer if given the chance?
The question in the title of the other thread remains unanswered: what is Beane doing? Why is he not doing everything he can to get the best possible return for his guys? Or is he doing so, but doing it very quietly? I'm baffled.
Dan to Theo to Ben said:
Foul territory isn't the smoke and mirrors you say it is.
Here's his Innings Pitched / FIP / xFIP since the 2012 season. It's only the past three seasons, but they are the only three he's been a starter:
2012 = 174.2 / 3.55 / 3.38
2013 = 213.3 / 3.77 / 3.45
2014 = 219.2 / 3.20 / 3.07
Even if or when his HR/9 and BB/9 normalizes (possibly as a result of not pitching in OAK though I didn't look at the 2014 splits), he's still throwing stud innings as a workhorse.
I don't know how much can be said about this list of ballpark factors for 2014, and yes, US Cellular is a HR-friendly park at #13. But I don't think this skillset automatically tanks upon the move to Chicago's other ballpark.
FWIW, Wrigley (#19) was only ranked two slots above Oakland Coliseum (#21).
Can someone explain all the samardzija hype? I've seen stories (not very good ones mind you) suggesting that Shark can be a number two in chicago behind sale, and now the sox are suddenly a threat in the central. A quick glance at baseball reference shows maybe two really good seasons (2011,2014) and a couple of decent ones. The guy has a career era+ of 103 and FIP of 3.73, which isn't bad but i don't see how this is a major move. a little scary that a guy like this cost 4 prospects though.
Over the 3 years Shark has been a full time starter he has been a top 20-25 pitcher in baseball. 15th in xFIP, 23rd in fwar, and 29th in FIP. He has also averaged over 200 innings in those 3 years. He is clearly a good number 2 and combined with Sale and Quintana makes a very tough top 3 starters for the White Sox.ator603 said:
ator603 said:
On a raw stuff scale he has few peers. Remember, he was a WR at ND and it took longer from him to develop. He wasn't even penciled into the rotation until his age 27 season, so he's somewhat of a late bloomer.