What do you want Pats to do with #3?

[67YAZ]

This seems strange to me, is that common? Especially among prospects that play the same position?

IIRC, the Pats brought in Deebo and AJ Brown together during that draft cycle. The two WR had been doing a number of events and meetings together, so they had some rapport. It was reported that Pats decision makers thought the two were too lax and joked around with each other too much. This assessment helped move N’Keal Harry up the Pats draft board.

The point being - these high stakes group visits seem dumb. They introduce extraneous conditions that can interfere with what you’re trying to assess. A lot of these guys have already spent a lot of time together this spring on the draft prep circuit and even before in high school camps, summer programs, and other kinds of events. None of that seems to matter to being a successful NFL player.

 

[Justthetippett]

Cross posting from Draft Subforum. Busy day for Washington.

View: https://twitter.com/AlbertBreer/status/1780258694531543239?t=xRTvpi2IQmwHcPuYp6P7NQ&s=19

Must be some theory to this. It's to find out who's the alpha of the alphas? Strange though.

 

[Rico Guapo]

IIRC, the Pats brought in Deebo and AJ Brown together during that draft cycle. The two WR had been doing a number of events and meetings together, so they had some rapport. It was reported that Pats decision makers thought the two were too lax and joked around with each other too much. This assessment helped move N’Keal Harry up the Pats draft board.

The point being - these high stakes group visits seem dumb. They introduce extraneous conditions that can interfere with what you’re trying to assess. A lot of these guys have already spent a lot of time together this spring on the draft prep circuit and even before in high school camps, summer programs, and other kinds of events. None of that seems to matter to being a successful NFL player.

Seems like an awfully convenient excuse for BB overruling scouts on that draft pick.

 

[rodderick]

Must be some theory to this. It's to find out who's the alpha of the alphas? Strange though.

Seems like a strategy Mac from Always Sunny would come up with as GM.

 

[Auger34]

Seems like a strategy Mac from Always Sunny would come up with as GM.

The prospect who was the best at doing ocular pat downs to assess threats would be vaulted to the top of the draft board

 

[Cellar-Door]

We have had a bunch of discussions about accuracy, how individual scouts chart etc.

Ben Solak from the Ringer charts QBs, and they just updated the draft guide with his stuff:
https://nfldraft.theringer.com/

He charts based on what he calls "pinpoint" which is, placement based so not just "it was somewhere his WR could catch it" but rather "it was where it is supposed to be" (ie the WR doesn't need to change his route, he can make the catch and continue the play, etc.).

His portion splits it out in areas of the field and situations (also his section includes pressure response).

Takeaways on the (non-Caleb) QBs I noted:

Daniels-
Excellent first read, HUGE drop beyond first read. Big drop in Clear to tight windows (but that's expected somewhat).... TERRIBLE sack numbers, took a sack on 23.3% of pressures, which blows away next closest (18.3 for JJ). Very accurate though overall outside intermediate middle, excellent deep middle and intermediate right, similar in and out of pocket, etc.

Maye-
Accuracy overall is spotty (Solak does note that this is a bit effected by him having a ridiculous ADOT). Had the best accuracy in the class for after the 1st read, was actually better out of pocket than in (good OOP numbers), one of the better tight window throwers (also threw to tight windows on a RIDICULOUS 25% of dropbacks), side notes.. really high drop rate for his WRs, took a sack on 14.7% of pressures. 2.9% interceptable (2.3 for JJ, 4.5 for Daniels)

JJ -
Poor after 1st read, struggles to his left, really struggled when outside the pocket. Positives... very strong under pressure numbers from the pocket (though higher sack rate), struggled with tight windows.

For the other two highlights:

Penix-
Never took sacks, not many interceptable balls, overall pinpoint was pretty low, poor after 1st read, a lot of area throws that got caught but weren't precise. Basically didn't scramble, pocket passer, either made the throw or chucked it away.

Nix-
Good accuracy, the expected drop offs (pressure, tight windows, 2nd reads, etc.) but also notes volume... very few throws down field, only 10% of throws past 1st read, even fewer tight windows, few deep balls but not great placement on them.

Basically his charting matches what we've heard all process...

Daniels... accurate to most areas when his 1st read is open, mostly from the pocket, eats a ton of hits/sacks, not great at the big arm throws, avoids the middle.

Maye... Makes tough throws, misses gimmies, inconsistent, but does avoid turnovers, CAN throw anywhere from any base, but can also just brick the layups in the pocket.

JJ.... low volume, clear issue going left, good at making pocket throws under pressure, escapes are usually runs.

Nix... he's making short first reads, pure schemed distributor mostly.

Penix... this is the guy who might be a bit off from how he's discussed... yes no sacks, yes pocket guy, yes arm is strong but... accuracy is spotty (some people HAVE been saying this, but I think it doesn't make the first line of how most think of him).

 

[Auger34]

Reading that post makes me want Maye on the Pats even more.

 

[P'tucket rhymes with...]

Must be some theory to this. It's to find out who's the alpha of the alphas? Strange though.

Too bad Shedeur Sanders isn't in the draft. His likely "fuck off with your HR-inspired group inteview games" would be extremely alpha.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Too bad Shedeur Sanders isn't in the draft. His likely "fuck off with your HR-inspired group inteview games" would be extremely alpha.

I don't know is "my Dad won't let me come to the party" really Alpha?

 

[Sox Pride]

Reading that post makes me want Maye on the Pats even more.

yeah. Let’s keep this on the downlow.
really hoping Maye lasts past the Commies at 2

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

Man, seeing these poll results and knowing how inaccurate the general public is on this stuff...I can already envision looking back on this thread in 5 years and shaking my head...

 

[Myt1]

Man, seeing these poll results and knowing how inaccurate the general public is on this stuff...I can already envision looking back on this thread in 5 years and shaking my head...

Trade down with me. Feels safer. It’s scary out there.

 

[Zincman]

He was hired in 1983, he had a relationship with Accorsi who he had provided scouting reports when he was in HS, Accorsi told him to start a business selling his scouting reports. He got a job in 83/84 but didn't follow the team when they left town.

Here's the thing to me... you're doing a false appeal to authority.... an NFL team hired Simms to throw a football not evaluate QB prospects, and the former scouts were hired usually because they knew somebody, then got fired for sucking at their jobs. I don't think anyone thinks it's dumb because they are high on Maye, there have been plenty of discussions on here of experts who are less high on Maye. It's dumb because you said you ignore the people who do this for a living and spend all year on it in favor of a guy who has no track record of success in evaluating prospects who spends most of his year giving all around hot takes on a podcast because he sat on the bench in the NFL for a few years.

I would also say on Kiper.... lots of teams for many years used his scouting guides, he was basically the forerunner of the scouting services they all buy reports from now. His evaluations were probably used by more teams than all of the former players and scouts combined.

Sometimes you can point to a guy and say for example:
"Hey I put a lot of emphasis on what Rick Spielman produces for CBS because he has a long track record as an NFL GM and ultimate decision maker" I think that's totally reasonable, he has a clear record, he was the guy who made the decisions etc. But guys who have no background in this at all but played? And discounting any other source regardless of track record is silly.

Now I have always regarded @Cellar-Door as an outstanding poster and I am always interested in his take on things but as a former teacher of formal logic, his citing of an argumentum ad verecundiam just got me all aflutter.

 

[Red Averages]

The holy grail is trading back with the Vikings for 2 firsts, a 2nd and and 2025 first. Not only does this give the Patriots 4 very good picks this year, but likely two top 10-15 picks next year to target their dream QB, or two stud first rounders, given the Vikings would have a rookie QB leading their otherwise average team.

From the Patriots perspective this puts their go for it years in a FAR better spot from an AFC and AFC East perspective. Rodgers would be out of the league, Allen and Tua will be taking up large shares of payroll for the Bills and Dolphins and the Patriots would have significant cost controlled talent for 2025-2030 to make a run. Plus all the cap space to make some splashy acquisitions.

 

[Zincman]

Zincman on SoSH asked: Here's a little game to play. Every year there are the top 5 QBs (whether they suck or not). Taking the top 5 for the last 4 years where would you place the projection of this years top 5
Dave said
1.Young 2.Stroud 3. Richardson 4.Levis 5.Hooker 6.Pickett 7.Ridder 8.Willis 9.Corral 10.Zappe 11. Lawrence
12. Z Wilson 13. Lance 14. Fields 15. Jones. 16.Burrow 17.Tua 18.Herbert 19.Love 20.Hurts
@SMU_Sox said 1. Lawrence, 2. Burrow, 3. Fields, 4. Tua, 5. Richardson, 6. Stroud, 7. Young, 8. Herbert, 9. Lance, 10. Wilson, 11. Mac, 12. Hurts, 13. Corral, 14. Pickett, 15. Ridder, 16. Love, 17. Daniels, 18. Zappe, 19. Hooker, 20. Levis, 21. Willis. (edited)
am going to have Caleb somewhere in the 5-10 range. Maye likely in their too? Daniels probably in the 12-16 range. JJM might be my new 11 or could be in 5-10. Nix and Penix are going to be in the 16-21 range
My point is that the #3 pick has value far beyond taking the best QB available when that player might be the 20th best overall player in the draft. Pick Maye or Daniels if you like but you better get lucky if one of them becomes a generational player when there are others who are more likely to be.

 

[mcpickl]

The holy grail is trading back with the Vikings for 2 firsts, a 2nd and and 2025 first. Not only does this give the Patriots 4 very good picks this year, but likely two top 10-15 picks next year to target their dream QB, or two stud first rounders, given the Vikings would have a rookie QB leading their otherwise average team.

From the Patriots perspective this puts their go for it years in a FAR better spot from an AFC and AFC East perspective. Rodgers would be out of the league, Allen and Tua will be taking up large shares of payroll for the Bills and Dolphins and the Patriots would have significant cost controlled talent for 2025-2030 to make a run. Plus all the cap space to make some splashy acquisitions.

The Vikings don't have a 2nd round pick this year, or next year. They traded them for #23.

I continue to be stunned at how many people think the holy grail is something other than taking a high end QB prospect this year.

 

[ManicCompression]

Curran, Breer and Perry did a podcast last week comparing pros and cons of Maye, Daniels and McCarthy and the general consensus was the Pats should take Maye. That’s all I got.

There is a piece of me that wishes we could go MHJ. I get why we wouldn’t but still.

FWIW, McShay is pretty confident that WA takes Daniels and NE takes Maye. He said it’s 85/90% they stay at 3 and pick QB.

 

[BaseballJones]

The Vikings don't have a 2nd round pick this year, or next year. They traded them for #23.

I continue to be stunned at how many people think the holy grail is something other than taking a high end QB prospect this year.

I know, right?

1. They desperately need a franchise QB.
2. There are several top shelf QB prospects in this year’s draft.
3. The Patriots pick third which means that - for the first time since Drew Bledsoe - they have a chance to draft a top tier QB prospect with a high pick.

Their need coincides precisely with the talent level of QB prospect available to them.

 

[Red Averages]

I know so weird that people think it’s better to address multiple areas and actually plan for a time to me competitive when your division runs into significant cap and QB issues. I’m sure the Jets thought Zach Wilson would be great too. Or Trey Lance etc etc.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Obviously it all depends on your evals, but one thing is ... QBs go in cycles.
2023- considered either a 3 or 4 QB class depending who you asked.... 3 went top 4, the last went 33rd. Way too early to judge, all 3 will be locked in starters next year.
2022- considered a very weak class, 1 in the first round at #20, none will start next year (though the last pick in the draft will)
2021- considered a 5 QB class (with 1 standout above the rest but pretty strong) 3 in the top 3, 5 in the 1st ... the 1 standout is a locked in starter, 1 of the other 4 has a shot to start without injury.
2020- considered a 4 QB class (and a strong one) 3 in the top 6, 4 in the 1st... all 4 are locked in starts as is a 5th.
2019- considered a fairly weak 3 QB class by most, 1 standout, 3 went in the 1st, 2 in the top 6. Both top 6 starting this year (likely), 3rd is dead.
2018- considered a good 5 QB class, 5 went in the 1st, 4 top 10... likely 4 of 5 will be starters this year, 3 locked in

could go back further, but you have some really poor classes, some strong ones, but the classes considered weak usually were, the classes considered strong... miced bag but actually less outright busts at the top than you'd think. 2021 was a bit of an outlier in that respect of recent years, 2020 had no outright busts at the top, 2019 both top class guys got big 2nd deals (1 probably regretted), 2018 1 guy was probably a bust 1 guy was good then hurt now solid, 1 superstar.

Edit- going back to 2012 adds 10 more top 10 QBs, an of those I'd say only 1 is an outright bust, the rest features a mix of okay to elite QBs many made the playoffs, etc.

So yeah a top 5 pick might not get you a superstar, but people do overestimate how often you get nothing at all, you usually get at least solid QB play for part or all of the rookie deal.

 

[leetinsley38]

I know, right?

1. They desperately need a franchise QB.
2. There are several top shelf QB prospects in this year’s draft.
3. The Patriots pick third which means that - for the first time since Drew Bledsoe - they have a chance to draft a top tier QB prospect with a high pick.

Their need coincides precisely with the talent level of QB prospect available to them.

Yeah but what about the bag?

 

[Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt]

This idea that teams will "run into cap issues" is pretty short-sighted, IMO. Yes, it's valuable to have a QB on his rookie contract, but the cap is no longer nearly as restrictive as it was at the beginning of the dynasty. It's not really a thing.

Take the fucking QB at#3. By which I mean Drake.

 

[Cellar-Door]

I know so weird that people think it’s better to address multiple areas and actually plan for a time to me competitive when your division runs into significant cap and QB issues. I’m sure the Jets thought Zach Wilson would be great too. Or Trey Lance etc etc.

While I get the appeal of kicking QB down the road....
1. You then need to find the QB while the rest of the roster you drafted in 2024 gets expensive
2. There is no particular reason to think the rest of the division will have QB issues, BUF has a young stud, and NYJ and MIA won't be any further away than the Patriots will be.... maybe better off.
3. The cap is generally a short term 1 year issue for teams to re-set.
4..... worrying about your division is a little silly, even if the AFC East turns into the NFC South.... does it really matter other than making it a little easier to get to .500, real contention isn't impacted by division strength, divisions put 3 teams in the playoffs all the time.

If you think a QB can be your franchise guy.... you draft him, and even if you miss it was probably a good pick because you aren't really going anywhere until you find the guy so you keep taking the highest probability swings you can.

 

[mcpickl]

I know so weird that people think it’s better to address multiple areas and actually plan for a time to me competitive when your division runs into significant cap and QB issues. I’m sure the Jets thought Zach Wilson would be great too. Or Trey Lance etc etc.

Why isn't that time now?

The Bills had to shove a bunch of money into the future, and lop off a bunch of their veteran talent just to get under the cap.
The Dolphins are already on the lower end of cap space projected next season, and that's without Tua or Waddle signed.
The Jets have a 41 year old QB, and have yet to pay Sauce or Garrett Wilson.

Even if you didn't want to draft a QB until the perfect window of time, this feels like the exact window.

If the QB you take at #3 is the hit you're hoping for, you wouldn't be expecting him to make you a contender this year. You'd be looking at probably 2026 at the earliest.

 

[j-man]

if u dont like any of the qb at 3 trade with denver and get 12 ps2 and sutton ps2 is prime ty law sutton is a 1 wr when healhy

 

[Justthetippett]

if u dont like any of the qb at 3 trade with denver and get 12 ps2 and sutton ps2 is prime ty law sutton is a 1 wr when healhy

I don't think so. PS2 is about to get real expensive and they have Gonzalez (hopefully). Sutton is...OK. Going back to 12 takes us out of the running for the top WR and OT talent. It would take multiple high picks next year too to consider this kind of trade with Denver. I think they'd be better off sticking at 3 and taking Nabers or MHJ.

(I'd rather they take QB3 in any case.)

 

[rodderick]

Josh Allen is 27, which "QB issues" are we talking here again? He'll be an elite QB in your division for another decade most likely, are we waiting until 2034 to draft a quarterback? If you think you have the guy, get the guy, because odds are you aren't going anywhere without that piece even if the rest of your division is in shambles.

 

[lexrageorge]

When you have the #3 pick, you don't trade out of the top 10. The team today needs players to build around, not collection of Cole Strange's (and I say that as someone who believes Strange's best days are still ahead of him). Patriots need to be focused on building out their own roster, not what Miami's roster is going to look like in 2 years (which honestly nobody can predict with any certainty anyway).

 

[DJnVa]

When you have the #3 pick, you don't trade out of the top 10.

This is where I am. Next year if they're, I don't know 7 through 15 or something, someone will want to trade up and maybe at that point trade back and gather picks.

 

[Ferm Sheller]

When you have the #3 pick, you don't trade out of the top 10. The team today needs players to build around, not collection of Cole Strange's (and I say that as someone who believes Strange's best days are still ahead of him). Patriots need to be focused on building out their own roster, not what Miami's roster is going to look like in 2 years (which honestly nobody can predict with any certainty anyway).

Strange days, indeed.

(But I can't say no one told me.)

 

[BaseballJones]

Again: they desperately need a QB, by far the most important position on the team. There are three (maybe four depending on one's view of McCarthy) outstanding QB prospects in this draft. They draft #3, so they can get one of those three without having to lift a finger.

Need meets opportunity perfectly.

If they screw this up, a lot of us will rightly be pissed.

 

[Curt S Loew]

Man, the hype for Daniels keeps getting bigger. I'm starting to re-consider my choice of Maye at this point.

It's gonna be a very long 7 days...

 

[Cellar-Door]

Man, the hype for Daniels keeps getting bigger. I'm starting to re-consider my choice of Maye at this point.

It's gonna be a very long 7 days...

Actually going the opposite way. He was the major favorite in the betting markets to go #2.... it's dropped to the same odds between him and Maye.

 

[Curt S Loew]

Actually going the opposite way. He was the major favorite in the betting markets to go #2.... it's dropped to the same odds between him and Maye.

I haven't looked at betting markets. I have just been hearing a lot more Daniels and Maye about the same.

I wasn't serious about my evaluation, more media noise.

 

[rodderick]

Funny, the more I watch them, the less I want Daniels. I just think it'd be a huge bet on him specifically bucking the trend of what players of his archetype (doesn't throw to MOF, turns a lot of pressure into sacks, escapes clean pockets, doesn't stand and deliver in the face of pressure, doesn't have a strong arm) amount to in the NFL. The more I look, the more I see Tyrod Taylor, or Justin Fields without a howitzer attached to his shoulders. A very high percentage of his impressive passing plays consists of two top 15 picks winning handily on fades (and sometimes having to adjust to underthrows). I don't know, I don't see the special aside from the straight line speed. I don't want to become one of those teams that's incredibly OC and scheme dependent, I think he'd especially struggle on the Patriots and their utter lack of outside threats. I won't be incensed if they pick him, especially if Maye is gone, but I don't see it. Would rather trade down and get Penix in that case.

 

[Curt S Loew]

Funny, the more I watch them, the less I want Daniels. I just think it'd be a huge bet on him specifically bucking the trend of what players of his archetype (doesn't throw to MOF, turns a lot of pressure into sacks, escapes clean pockets, doesn't stand and deliver in the face of pressure, doesn't have a strong arm) amount to in the NFL. The more I look, the more I see Tyrod Taylor, or Justin Fields without a howitzer attached to his shoulders. A very high percentage of his impressive passing plays consists of two top 15 picks winning handily on fades (and sometimes having to adjust to underthrows). I don't know, I don't see the special aside from the straight line speed. I don't want to become one of those teams that's incredibly OC and scheme dependent, I think he'd especially struggle on the Patriots and their utter lack of outside threats. I won't be incensed if they pick him, especially if Maye is gone, but I don't see it. Would rather trade down and get Penix in that case.

I agree with everything except the bolded. Just too many question marks with Penix for my liking putting him as a franchise QB. Definitely much more of a gamble.

 

[rodderick]

I agree with everything except the bolded. Just too many question marks with Penix for my liking putting him as a franchise QB. Definitely much more of a gamble.

I don't love Penix either, I just think he's closer to Daniels than Daniels it to Maye, to my tastes.

 

[SMU_Sox]

I went back and tried to see with fresh eyes if I was just missing something with the top 4 guys. I tried watching different games. The guy I came away the most frustrated with was JJM. I came away wondering if I should even have a projected starter grade on him. Daniels is also someone that I think is more like Hurts - he is a classic day 2 type guy who you need to have a very specific scheme and team build for. I also don't think he is long for the league the way he plays. And yet these guys are both going top 4?

Maye and Caleb can potentially carry a team. JJM can't. Daniels can't (he will have success as a scrambler but he's just not a good enough pocket passer). If the Patriots take these guys they likely need another 2-3 years to put the pieces around them to succeed, right? And now you are on year 3-4 of a rookie deal for the window for average to below average starting QBs. That's ok but I would rather tread water with JB on bridge deals vs use 1,3 or any top 5 pick on a QB who really should be going late 1 or day 2.

 

[Curt S Loew]

I went back and tried to see with fresh eyes if I was just missing something with the top 4 guys. I tried watching different games. The guy I came away the most frustrated with was JJM. I came away wondering if I should even have a projected starter grade on him. Daniels is also someone that I think is more like Hurts - he is a classic day 2 type guy who you need to have a very specific scheme and team build for. I also don't think he is long for the league the way he plays. And yet these guys are both going top 4?

Maye and Caleb can potentially carry a team. JJM can't. Daniels can't (he will have success as a scrambler but he's just not a good enough pocket passer). If the Patriots take these guys they likely need another 2-3 years to put the pieces around them to succeed, right? And now you are on year 3-4 of a rookie deal for the window for average to below average starting QBs. That's ok but I would rather tread water with JB on bridge deals vs use 1,3 or any top 5 pick on a QB who really should be going late 1 or day 2.

This is very similar to the view I have had all along. I just hope Washington doesn't have this view and takes Daniels.

 

[DJnVa]

This is very similar to the view I have had all along. I just hope Washington doesn't have this view and takes Daniels.

I just don't see Washington bringing in Kingsbury and then going Maye.

 

[Cellar-Door]

I just don't see Washington bringing in Kingsbury and then going Maye.

I can... he literally played in almost exactly Kingsbury's system in 2022 when he was excellent.

 

[dynomite]

I went back and tried to see with fresh eyes if I was just missing something with the top 4 guys. I tried watching different games. The guy I came away the most frustrated with was JJM. I came away wondering if I should even have a projected starter grade on him. Daniels is also someone that I think is more like Hurts - he is a classic day 2 type guy who you need to have a very specific scheme and team build for. I also don't think he is long for the league the way he plays. And yet these guys are both going top 4?

Maye and Caleb can potentially carry a team. JJM can't. Daniels can't (he will have success as a scrambler but he's just not a good enough pocket passer). If the Patriots take these guys they likely need another 2-3 years to put the pieces around them to succeed, right? And now you are on year 3-4 of a rookie deal for the window for average to below average starting QBs. That's ok but I would rather tread water with JB on bridge deals vs use 1,3 or any top 5 pick on a QB who really should be going late 1 or day 2.

Interesting, good to know. So in other words, if Maye goes #2 would you advocate trading back and accumulating picks/players?

I'm also interested in your Daniels take. Maybe I'm just misunderstanding, but if Hurts is a comparison, that still seems pretty good? I know the Eagles built a great team around him, but if Daniels could be some approximation of Hurts that seems worth the #3 pick, no?

Ultimately I'm... not sure what I'm rooting for? There are so many glaring needs across the roster that I'm sympathetic with the view that we need to accumulate picks and not laser focus on QB... but going into 2024 with a journeyman at QB and no high level prospects in the QB room behind him just feels so depressing.

 

[DJnVa]

I can... he literally played in almost exactly Kingsbury's system in 2022 when he was excellent.

Yeah, but Daniels seems closer to the guys like Manziel and Murray that Kingsbury coached and had a lot of success with. Additionally, they signed Mariota, who seems more akin to Daniels as well.

It's just quotes like this:

"When the money's on the table, you got to be able to make some plays with your feet [and] move around enough to escape a bad play," Kingsbury said. "It doesn't mean you got to run like [Baltimore Ravens QB] Lamar or [Arizona Cardinals QB] Kyler Murray, but you better be able to move a little bit and buy yourself some time because the D Line, the [pass] rushers [and] the defenses these days are so good.

Although I do think Maye is athletic enough to be a running threat, he's not really characterized in the same way Daniels is in this regard. When people talk about Maye it's his size and big arm.

Anyway, silly season--6 more days.

 

[rodderick]

Yeah, but Daniels seems closer to the guys like Manziel and Murray that Kingsbury coached and had a lot of success with. Additionally, they signed Mariota, who seems more akin to Daniels as well.

It's just quotes like this:




Although I do think Maye is athletic enough to be a running threat, he's not really characterized in the same way Daniels is in this regard. When people talk about Maye it's his size and big arm.

Anyway, silly season--6 more days.

But Maye is the one who consistently moves around to buy himself time, while Daniels just straight up runs in the face of pressure.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Yeah, but Daniels seems closer to the guys like Manziel and Murray that Kingsbury coached and had a lot of success with. Additionally, they signed Mariota, who seems more akin to Daniels as well.

It's just quotes like this:




Although I do think Maye is athletic enough to be a running threat, he's not really characterized in the same way Daniels is in this regard. When people talk about Maye it's his size and big arm.

Anyway, silly season--6 more days.

Mariota is definitely not like Daniels, he's a worse runner than Maye at this point. I'd say his final year at Oregon he was really closer to Maye than Daniels as a runner.

Daniels is definitely the better runner, but Maye had a TON of scrambles for 1st downs last year, and in 2022 he ran for about 700 yards (Daniels ran of 885).
People are REALLY underrating Maye as a scrambler and athlete. If they want to run 15 designed QB runs a game.... sure Daniels is the fit. If they want to run Air Raid and have the QB scramble around and throw from outside the pocket.... that's Maye more than Daniels, who is mostly a pocket passer or runner not really a creator outside the pocket.

 

[Auger34]

Mariota is definitely not like Daniels, he's a worse runner than Maye at this point. I'd say his final year at Oregon he was really closer to Maye than Daniels as a runner.

Daniels is definitely the better runner, but Maye had a TON of scrambles for 1st downs last year, and in 2022 he ran for about 700 yards (Daniels ran of 885).
People are REALLY underrating Maye as a scrambler and athlete. If they want to run 15 designed QB runs a game.... sure Daniels is the fit. If they want to run Air Raid and have the QB scramble around and throw from outside the pocket.... that's Maye more than Daniels, who is mostly a pocket passer or runner not really a creator outside the pocket.

They may be underrating Maye but it’s crazy to say that the Kingsbury offense fits Maye more than Daniels.
I mean, look at the post you posted from Solak, look at what @SMU_Sox has said. The Kingsbury offense is all RPO, one read. Thats exactly what Daniels excels at. To bring up what SMU said earlier again, Daniels is basically a perfect fit for the Kingsbury offense.

Theres a reason why most insiders have Washington taking Daniels over Maye (something Schefter has basically confirmed)

 

[Auger34]

Yeah, but Daniels seems closer to the guys like Manziel and Murray that Kingsbury coached and had a lot of success with. Additionally, they signed Mariota, who seems more akin to Daniels as well.

It's just quotes like this:




Although I do think Maye is athletic enough to be a running threat, he's not really characterized in the same way Daniels is in this regard. When people talk about Maye it's his size and big arm.

Anyway, silly season--6 more days.

it’s silly season for sure but I don’t remember Schefter ever hinting at something so strongly (basically guaranteeing) and being wrong.

I fully expect Washington to take Daniels (I’ve held this same position since they hired Kliff)

 

[TC]

I'm not sure what the Commanders are doing. Bringing in Daniels, Maye, Mcarthy and Penix for Top Golf the other night seems pretty odd if they've already decided on Daniels.

 

[Cellar-Door]

They may be underrating Maye but it’s crazy to say that the Kingsbury offense fits Maye more than Daniels.
I mean, look at the post you posted from Solak, look at what @SMU_Sox has said. The Kingsbury offense is all RPO, one read. Thats exactly what Daniels excels at. To bring up what SMU said earlier again, Daniels is basically a perfect fit for the Kingsbury offense.

Theres a reason why most insiders have Washington taking Daniels over Maye (something Schefter has basically confirmed)

I think the Kingsbury offense is a great fit for Daniels' strengths and weaknesses..... but.... Daniels is not a perfect fit for Kingsbury's offense (which he ideally does not want to be 1 read and run).

Kingsbury's ideal QB doesn't really look like Jayden Daniels, or even Kyler.... he looks like Caleb Williams. Able to run RPO, able to scramble for gains, but also able to just say F' it and run around and play backyard football while the WRs just get open. He talked earlier this year about wanting to do more play action than traditional air raid, and that he wouldn't say he is an air raid system.

I think if they draft Daniels, Kingsbury will be happy, he'll put more designed runs in the playbook, and reduce the route concepts.

If the draft Maye... Kingsbury will be happy, he'll add more PA deep shots and more route concepts over the middle, more bootlegs, etc.

Both guys have strenghts that play well into components of the offense but also areas that aren't perfect fits.

The ideal Kingsbury QB is (as he has said).... Patrick Mahomes. He wants to have a guy who CAN run on some plays, but escaping to throw is also a component he really wants, he doesn't want to run Greg Roman's pass concepts.

 

[DennyDoyle'sBoil]

I'm not sure what the Commanders are doing. Bringing in Daniels, Maye, Mcarthy and Penix for Top Golf the other night seems pretty odd if they've already decided on Daniels.

Why not? Unless you're spreading yourself too thin, it's just due diligence because you never know how things might unfold on draft night or what opportunities might be available.