Trade Deadline Watch: RBs
- Thread starter dcmissle
- Start date
That would be the defending champs mailing in their season.RedOctober3829 said:
With the ability to get very good backs late in the draft and via FA, it's depressing if BB views the cupboard bare. If so, why are these guys on the roster and practice squad? Emergency parachutes like 3rd QBs?
lambeau said:
So if BB thinks he's as good as he was a couple years back, do you package multiple high round picks?
I suppose that would depend on what the plan is for Ridley in FA. We will never get any info on that unless a trade actually happens.
Silverdude2167 said:
If you're looking for Martin and Jackson, do you send a 2nd and a 3rd? Or two 2nds?
I suppose I should be clear in that I do not mean a 1st, but I suppose someone could make the case.
Doug Martin I'd love.
VJ? I don't know. Super talented. But the kinds of catches he typically makes are in traffic, and he seems like a guy that Brady would be reluctant to throw to without having earned his trust. I'm not sure VJ fills a need on this team, even if WR is a need.
VJ? I don't know. Super talented. But the kinds of catches he typically makes are in traffic, and he seems like a guy that Brady would be reluctant to throw to without having earned his trust. I'm not sure VJ fills a need on this team, even if WR is a need.
I'd take Martin for maybe a 5th rounder. RB are quite fungible in this league, as Jonas Gray demonstrated today. This team obviously doesn't need to be spending a 2nd round pick and ten million bucks on a receiver, unless it's Calvin Johnson.
Martin is the kind of player the Bucs should keep if they think his struggles are correctable. He's still young and cheap, and he doesn't have a lot of miles of him. FWIW, he left today's game in the third quarter with an ankle injury. Moving VJax makes much more sense, but I can't see the Pats paying a second/third rounder for him.
I'll be all over Stacy -- pretty much carried the Rams last year and is only in his 2nd year. Not a lot of touches mean he's also pretty fresh at this point in the season.
For the kind of picks required in a deal I'd prefer Stacy over Martin.
For the kind of picks required in a deal I'd prefer Stacy over Martin.
Keep in mind when trading for a RB like Stacy or Martin that still has time left on his rookie deal: Ridley, Vereen, and Bolden are all free agents after the season. So a move like that could be not just a replacement for Ridley in 2014 but key depth for 2015 and 2016, too. Gray, White, and Tyler Gaffney are the only RBs under contract after this year.
soxfan121 said:
Le'Veon Bell/Gio Bernard?
I never wanted to give up a lot for a RB, but with the way Gray just played I don't know if I want to give anything for a RB. It's too bad they don't have another week to see how he looks.
I know you're being a smartass, but if Gray shows close to the ability that Martin has shown, I'll be thrilled.
Hell, if we get the one good season out of Gray that Martin had that'll be enough.
Hell, if we get the one good season out of Gray that Martin had that'll be enough.
I don't get the love for Doug Martin, the guy is a bust. For 2 straight years, journeymen RB's have come in and been reasonably successful in his absence while he has struggled. Honestly if you take away his 250 yd, 4 TD game from his rookie year, his numbers aren't all that spectacular that season.
DrewDawg said:
Not to take too much away from what was a good rookie season, but I think the impression of Doug Martin is propped up by that ridiculous back-to-back where he put up 6 tds and close to 500 YFS, one of which was against a (redundancy alert!) terrible Oakland team.
Even if you don't hold against him the injuries and poor coaching/quarterbacking/OL/offense that has affected him since that stretch, I wouldn't want them to pay more than change-of-scenery prices for him or any other RB outside the top tier.
edit: I post way too slowly, Dgilpin beat me to it.
Phragle said:
I'm not sure Bernard gives you anything Vereen can't. Bell...without his escapades with Blount, might qualify. But both are on rookie contracts with more than 2 years remaining. And even then, we're not sure. Anyone with a real contract or with less than 2 years left just isn't worth a 2nd - given they can probably find a replacement for Ridley in the 2015 draft.
And White was a 4th round pick. And while he hasn't impressed yet, there's lots of time. Running backs are the Kleenex of the NFL.
Kick the tires on Toby Gerhart? Probably a pipe dream, but he's the kind of guy who might have been able to punch into the end zone on the Bears goal line stand?
Haven't seen any of him this year, but he's a big back in the Law Firm/Blount vein (6'0", 230), was pretty decent until he tried to run behind the Jaguars o-line. Signed to much fanfare, but he's the 3rd stringer on that team now.
The issue is his contract, which looks like a deal breaker. Am I correct that his contract is $3M in '15 and $3.5M in '16? (Though only $500K in dead money in '15 and none in '16?)
Edit: To be clear, it's a log shot and pretty early for the Jags to cut bait. But I always liked Gerhart's size and pedigree in a Harbaugh system.
Edit2: iPhone changes Toby to Tony. Which is fair, because Toby isn't much of a name.
Haven't seen any of him this year, but he's a big back in the Law Firm/Blount vein (6'0", 230), was pretty decent until he tried to run behind the Jaguars o-line. Signed to much fanfare, but he's the 3rd stringer on that team now.
The issue is his contract, which looks like a deal breaker. Am I correct that his contract is $3M in '15 and $3.5M in '16? (Though only $500K in dead money in '15 and none in '16?)
Edit: To be clear, it's a log shot and pretty early for the Jags to cut bait. But I always liked Gerhart's size and pedigree in a Harbaugh system.
Edit2: iPhone changes Toby to Tony. Which is fair, because Toby isn't much of a name.
To pick up on a minor point: dead money would actually be good from the Pats' perspective, because the Jags would still be on the hook for any signing bonus money while the Pats would pick up just the salaries and roster bonuses. With Doug Martin, for instance, Tampa would still be on the hook for the $844,096 in bonus next year (and this year), while the Pats would only be responsible for his 2015 base salary of $1,315,572 and the pro-rated portion of his 2014 base salary of $1,007,048.dynomite said:
I think saying running backs aren't worth a second round pick in a trade as a blanket statement is probably overstating it, but its a good first approximation.
Don't think the Pats go in this direction for a rental, somewhat hard to get another back onto the 53 man roster, the only back they currently don't use is an unlikely cut, and Id rather have Gray and cheap team control going forward than give up assets for Martin or Gerhart or someone like that and expose Gray to waivers. Sure, Id kick the tires on someone like Lynch if he's really shot his way out of Seattle, but a second seems steep, and Id ship a 2nd rounder off for Bernard or Bell, but they wont be on the trade block
Don't think the Pats go in this direction for a rental, somewhat hard to get another back onto the 53 man roster, the only back they currently don't use is an unlikely cut, and Id rather have Gray and cheap team control going forward than give up assets for Martin or Gerhart or someone like that and expose Gray to waivers. Sure, Id kick the tires on someone like Lynch if he's really shot his way out of Seattle, but a second seems steep, and Id ship a 2nd rounder off for Bernard or Bell, but they wont be on the trade block
Absent legal woes Adrian Peterson is still worth a 2nd, arguably even with that contract. But of course, given current circumstances he's not someone anyone would trade for, I don't think.
Where is 500% coming from? I don't think that's the right analysis if you are looking at dollars linearly, Brady isn't 2200% better than Jimmy G or w/ but Id rather have Brady on his contract this year than Jimmy G.
Im not certain Id ship the 2nd+pay the cap hit for either player, but given how both players are major factors in the passing game as well Id think about it.
Im not certain Id ship the 2nd+pay the cap hit for either player, but given how both players are major factors in the passing game as well Id think about it.
LeGarrette Blount? He seems to be playing the expected backup RB and KO returner in Pittsburgh, but he could be a starter here and who knows, maybe would get a Pats draft pick overpay for the Steelers. We already know how well he can play in the Pats system.
I have less than no interest in "Tony" Gerhart and that's coming from a guy who positively LOVES the name Toby.
Yeah, Toby Gerhart can't see the field for the Jaguars, he doesn't make the roster in New England, IMO. He's just not good. He's another guy in a long, long line of guys that stepped up and had a couple of good games in a replacement role, and everyone thought it was their true talent level. It's not. Minnesota had an offense built around AP, and when Gerhart stepped in, he reaped the benefits of that. He won't have that kind of success anywhere else. That turf that they played on in Minnesota also makes slow guys faster. Not so in Jacksonville or New England, and Gerhart is a slow guy.
if Houston was 3-5 instead of 4-4, without knowing anything about his contract situation, I'd probably give up a 3rd, maybe a 2nd for a rest of the year rental on Foster if he's in his final year, maybe even a 2nd.
Realistically though, I think guys like Martin, or maybe McFadden in Oakland, maybe Morris in Washington, are the best you're going to find on the trade block, and frankly, none of them seem to be an upgrade. As non-proud owner of Doug Martin in a fantasy keeper league, I will also submit that he's a complete bust, and completely overrated, and if you remove those two outrageous games from his rookie season, his numbers are fucking dreadful, and he's had plenty of opportunities to shine. He's been outplayed by various back-ups throughout the years, and will soon be outplayed by another in Charles Sims, who returns this week.
if Houston was 3-5 instead of 4-4, without knowing anything about his contract situation, I'd probably give up a 3rd, maybe a 2nd for a rest of the year rental on Foster if he's in his final year, maybe even a 2nd.
Realistically though, I think guys like Martin, or maybe McFadden in Oakland, maybe Morris in Washington, are the best you're going to find on the trade block, and frankly, none of them seem to be an upgrade. As non-proud owner of Doug Martin in a fantasy keeper league, I will also submit that he's a complete bust, and completely overrated, and if you remove those two outrageous games from his rookie season, his numbers are fucking dreadful, and he's had plenty of opportunities to shine. He's been outplayed by various back-ups throughout the years, and will soon be outplayed by another in Charles Sims, who returns this week.
soxfan121 said:
Production is not linear; under your rationale the Pats are also nuts to pay Brady what they do.
Premium players are worth premium contracts because as you get very far away from average production it gets very difficult to find people who can perform at that level with any consistency.
Pretty much every running back is replaceable though; the same isn't true about quarterbacks.PedroKsBambino said:
Crossposting from Trade Deadline thread. A binky of mine a few years back in college was Darren McFadden, somewhat of a fumbling history, (1st one this year though was last week), North-South SEC west runner like Ridley, better receiver and even better passer, heh heh, than Ridley. He's signed through this year only, for $4 mil, so we'd be on hook for about 2.
On the Raiders, so they're not going anywhere. Tough runner, would like him for goalline carries. Should be good partner with Vereen.
On the Raiders, so they're not going anywhere. Tough runner, would like him for goalline carries. Should be good partner with Vereen.
Deathofthebambino said:
Player A: 4.66 40 time
Player B: 4.59 40 time
Player C: 4.53 40 time
Player D: 4.50 40 time
In order, those players are: Ridley, Blount, Gerhart, and Vereen. He's not a burner, but he's not "slow." Also, the turf vs. grass divide is not borne out:
Gerhart career in domes: 156 carries, 622 yards (3.99 yards/attempt)
Gerhart career on grass: 159 carries, 770 yards (4.84 yards/attempt)
Now, Gerhart is probably not good. He has looked terrible this season, and his ceiling is fairly low. And on top of all that, he's not likely to be moved given his contract and price to acquire.
But I still think if for some reason he becomes available he could be a useful complementary piece of this offense.
First of all, when were those 40 times? At their NFL combines or something? Gerhart has been in the league for 5 years now, and there is no way that Blount is beating Ridley in a foot race at this point. I've been saying all year that Vereen looks like he's lost about 3 steps from the guy he was just last year, never mind the guy who returned kicks at Cal when he was in college, so I'm not sure what you're trying to tell me with those comparables. They are all slow, IMO. The YPC numbers have a ton of noise in them and don't tell us anything about Gerhart as a runner right now. Those numbers are cumulative over a 5 year period. Since the beginning of last season, the guy has had a total of 88 carries in his teams 25 games or so. One 60+ yard run or two will inflate the numbers a lot when you're talking about so few carries. I'm just saying is that he's not the same guy he was when he was playing in Minnesota. Whether or not he was actually faster on the turf, I have no idea, but I know he looked faster. Now, he doesn't just look slow. He is slow. He had a couple good seasons (games really) coming in as the change of pace guy when AP needed a breather on an offense set up entirely around the running game. I don't think we ever see that kind of production out of him anywhere, and I was a fan of his coming out of college. He just doesn't have it anymore.
More importantly, I don't think the Patriots need a guy like Gerhart. I'm not sure what he does any better than Vereen or Bolden at this point, and I certainly wouldn't give up anything for him. If he got cut or if Jacksonville wants to give him away for a 7th rounder or something, then sure, bring him in if you're looking for a warm body, but the guy can't get any run right now for one of the worst rushing teams in the NFL, if not the worst. I don't really need to see much more than that to know that anything more than free for the taking is more than I'd be willing to give up for him.
More importantly, I don't think the Patriots need a guy like Gerhart. I'm not sure what he does any better than Vereen or Bolden at this point, and I certainly wouldn't give up anything for him. If he got cut or if Jacksonville wants to give him away for a 7th rounder or something, then sure, bring him in if you're looking for a warm body, but the guy can't get any run right now for one of the worst rushing teams in the NFL, if not the worst. I don't really need to see much more than that to know that anything more than free for the taking is more than I'd be willing to give up for him.
I see a lot of the Raiders here in the Bay Area and would disagree with the assessment that McFadden is a tough runner who would be good in goal-line situations. I see him as a very upright runner (he is tall so can't hold it too much against him) who has lost some explosiveness through injury. I think when healthy (rarely) McFadden has been a similar player to someone like DeMarco Murray (a poor man's version).Dan to Theo to Ben said:
If the Pats were to give up anything more than a 6th round pick for someone like Martin or Gerhart or McFadden or Stacy, I'd be shocked. I don't think any of the above are much of an upgrade over what we have (I would like Stacy/Martin/McFadden/Gerhart in that order), but I do think it would be an acceptable move from a depth perspective. Tampa is close to handing over the RB duties to Rainey and have the rookie coming off the IR - - they will dump Martin for next to nothing IMO.
McFadden is pretty terrible. He doesn't play to his size, he's not a good blocker, he has poor vision / instincts, and his Lisfranc injury seems to have robbed him of the breakaway speed he used to have - his long run on the season is 17 yards. $2 MM ain't chump change, either (though OverTheCap has him at just $1.6 MM for 2014). I'm doubt he's an upgrade on Gray. I'd also prefer a guy extended beyond this year, since Ridley / Vereen / Bolden are all FAs.Dan to Theo to Ben said:
