If Mac didn't start his first 4 drives 0-4 with three 3 and outs and a pick, maybe we're not fighting uphill all game...Going from having 2 promising starters to perhaps none?
I'm back on the Mac train. He should start vs the Jets.
Can't argue with facts there.If Mac didn't start his first 4 drives 0-4 with three 3 and outs and a pick, maybe we're not fighting uphill all game...
Are those facts correct? Didn't make hit his first two passes (the incompletions were taken off the board by penalties). I think Mac finished 3-6 with last pass being intercepted. Also, didn't Zappe come in and get a lead of 14-10. I mean Zappe fell apart in the second half as much as the defense did.Can't argue with facts there.
There is nothing more depressing than which of our 2 QBs played worse but here we are.Are those facts correct? Didn't make hit his first two passes (the incompletions were taken off the board by penalties). I think Mac finished 3-6 with last pass being intercepted. Also, didn't Zappe come in and get a lead of 14-10. I mean Zappe fell apart in the second half as much as the defense did.
So I am not sure how it was an uphill fight "all game".
Edit - and Mac only got three total drives - 2 three and outs and the pick.
This very much. After last season, I did not expect this.There is nothing more depressing than which of our 2 QBs played worse but here we are.
But then again, we're talking about a 2nd year QB who had a terrific rookie season coming off injury & a rookie QB with potential, at least as a capable backup or a decent starter.This very much. After last season, I did not expect this.
Yeah, it is probably best to look at as half full OR just hope the Pats can get a guy like Hooker in the draft!But then again, we're talking about a 2nd year QB who had a terrific rookie season coming off injury & a rookie QB with potential, at least as a capable backup or a decent starter.
I'm just not sure if the cups are half empty or half full yet but I'm leaning towards the latter.
I'm more inclined to really shore up the OL. I'm convinced Jones would have equaled or bettered Zappe's performance vs Lions if given the same amount of protection.Yeah, it is probably best to look at as half full OR just hope the Pats can get a guy like Hooker in the draft!
Yeah, OL or front 7. Or a weapon for Mac Jones or whoever the starting QB is.I'm more inclined to really shore up the OL. I'm convinced Jones would have equaled or bettered Zappe's performance vs Lions if given the same amount of protection.
They also leave out the offensive line not blocking anyone the first 2 drives including 3 penalties by Brown and a pretty easy drop by Harris right before the interception.Are those facts correct? Didn't make hit his first two passes (the incompletions were taken off the board by penalties). I think Mac finished 3-6 with last pass being intercepted. Also, didn't Zappe come in and get a lead of 14-10. I mean Zappe fell apart in the second half as much as the defense did.
So I am not sure how it was an uphill fight "all game".
Edit - and Mac only got three total drives - 2 three and outs and the pick.
There were holds, but... I thought the line wasn't any worse for Mac, he bailed on decent pockets which has been a theme all year, and leads to some of the holds because he isn't where he's supposed to be.They also leave out the offensive line not blocking anyone the first 2 drives including 3 penalties by Brown and a pretty easy drop by Harris right before the interception.
Yeah, it's about time we start blaming Mac for some of those pressures. OLs don't struggle for two drives and then magically improve when the other guy comes in. Zappe just has better pocket presence.There were holds, but... I thought the line wasn't any worse for Mac, he bailed on decent pockets which has been a theme all year, and leads to some of the holds because he isn't where he's supposed to be.
The "picked either way" bit seems silly to me, but agree with the "horrible decision" bit.Shitty that that may have happened, but I think it is picked either way, and regardless it was a horrible decision by Mac.
The only problem with that conclusion is that Mac may have felt he had an on-target throw to an open receiver down the sideline; the expected trajectory of the throw is now unknown. Cannot expect him to see or avoid a guy wire.Shitty that that may have happened, but I think it is picked either way, and regardless it was a horrible decision by Mac.
If that one pass is thrown by, say Josh Allen or Patrick Mahomes or a player who gets attention because they have an attractive mother vs the Patriots, its absolutely worth keeping around.If the SkyCam interferes with just one pass over the course of the season, it's not worth keeping around. I can't remember ever saying "I'm so glad we have the SkyCam for that great shot."
I'd be careful of a few things with this table:In case you were interested, here's how Mac's full body of work compares to all of the QB's drafted in 2020, 2021 and 2022.
View attachment 56853
Not sure you can say it would have been picked either way. Appears the wire pushed it down ever so slightly and may have slowed it as well. Could have been enough to have cleared Brisker.Shitty that that may have happened, but I think it is picked either way, and regardless it was a horrible decision by Mac.
The face palm murders me every time.That Volin favors Mac is a reason to favor Zappe. Volin is the closest thing in the Bosotn media to Ivan ("always wrong") Ackerman from Annie Hall.
View: https://youtu.be/1VIBA_mPdPA
On a more serious note, the only thing we know is that Bill is going to play the QB who he thinks will give him the best shot to win, regardless of the fall out.
My bet is that he's going to go with Zappe. Mac made a lot of mental mistakes while he was playing and while Zappe has undoubtedly made some too, they have not been as glaring or as costly. Mac also seemed to be pressing while Bailey looks like he is playing "easy." I'm guessing Bill will go with Zappe again against the Bears to increase the sample size, especially if Mac is not 100% by game time.
High class problem they have there in Foxboro compared to the Cam days.
Me too. I picture that face palm OFTEN.The face palm murders me every time.
Props for getting away with some decent scramble yardage today against the Jets, but Mac's gonna get himself killed running like that.He drew a few PFs that was probably the highlights.
Geez man, I suspect most people here watch A LOT of NFL. The delta between Mac and Mahones doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be wondering if Mac can be a long term solution. Many of us would be happy with a lot less than Brady. Mac isn’t anywhere near that at the moment.It really feels like some people criticizing Jones don't watch much NFL beyond the Patriots. What we saw today between the Pats and Jets is what many other fans across the league get week in and week out from what I've seen. It almost feels like a typical Thursday Night game this season.
This isn't to say Jones is or isn't the "guy" but its also an acknowledgement that he still might be with the right seasoning. I know some have already made up their minds its not happening and I am not here to sell anyone otherwise.
However, it really feels like the bar of the Pats needing to have the next Brady/Mahomes/Allen to compete is simply unrealistic. Those guys come along very infrequently.
I don't know that I agree. I think that was bottom of the league QB play from both starters. But... my bigger concern is that bottom half of the league is usually a roller-coaster, you have some real terrible games, you have some real good ones, you have mostly ones in-between. Mac has been on the low end of that all year this year. He's bringing you more downside than up, and those guys get replaced every year.It really feels like some people criticizing Jones don't watch much NFL beyond the Patriots. What we saw today between the Pats and Jets is what many other fans across the league get week in and week out from what I've seen. It almost feels like a typical Thursday Night game this season.
This isn't to say Jones is or isn't the "guy" but its also an acknowledgement that he still might be with the right seasoning. I know some have already made up their minds its not happening and I am not here to sell anyone otherwise.
However, it really feels like the bar of the Pats needing to have the next Brady/Mahomes/Allen to compete is simply unrealistic. Those guys come along very infrequently.
I think you play Mac every game this year, and then you draft a QB or sign a real backup in the offseason (like a Dalton not a Hoyer) and put Mac's job on the line in TC.My view was that unless Mac completely blows up, you ride with him for an extended period this year to see what he has. Today was bad, but Wilson was worse, and Mac’s line was terrible, so obviously this isn’t a complete blow up. Give him some time to get acclimated to game speed again, let’s see how he does for a few more games, but the arrow is continuing to point down after today. Need more from him in terms of decision-making, because he’s not a difference maker because of his arm.
Yeah well, Mac's team has a better record than Brady's!Geez man, I suspect most people here watch A LOT of NFL. The delta between Mac and Mahones doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be wondering if Mac can be a long term solution. Many of us would be happy with a lot less than Brady. Mac isn’t anywhere near that at the moment.
Agree completely. He’s the guy for the rest of this season. He’s not giving folks much reason to think he’s a long term solution, but there’s half a season to be played.My view was that unless Mac completely blows up, you ride with him for an extended period this year to see what he has. Today was bad, but Wilson was worse, and Mac’s line was terrible, so obviously this isn’t a complete blow up. Give him some time to get acclimated to game speed again, let’s see how he does for a few more games, but the arrow is continuing to point down after today. Need more from him in terms of decision-making, because he’s not a difference maker because of his arm.
I don’t think you watch any NFL! No one here does!Yeah well, Mac's team has a better record than Brady's!
Nobody said that. Also, my post was not @ you. You can sort of tell from the gamethreads who watches. I would not place you in that category.I don’t think you watch any NFL! No one here does!
I find complaining about game threads to be silly. It’s where people emote in real time. It’s that way on every fan site on earth. Like, literally.Nobody said that. Also, my post was not @ you. You can sort of tell from the gamethreads who watches. I would not place you in that category.
Its just not realistic to expect another good QB right after we got to see something incredibly rare. If you watch other NFL teams, including contenders, you will see bad play by even contending QBs.My assumption is the vast majority of BBTL watches a metric shitton of football.
Because bad QB play exists elsewhere doesn’t mean we should become complacent with it. The goal is for the Patriots not to suck like other teams.
I generally agree with your approach in game threads but I am not entirely sure what the point is here.Its just not realistic to expect another good QB right after we got to see something incredibly rare. If you watch other NFL teams, including contenders, you will see bad play by even contending QBs.
Meanwhile, Jones was on the winning team today, which, last I checked, was all that matters in football. To me, some posts here read like we just saw a horrible loss that was all Jones' doing.