The Krafts

[Red Averages]

I'm curious where people fall out on their assessment and view towards the Kraft family. For about two decades they were 10/10 in my book. Paid for the stadium by themselves, ran a great organization, seemed like genuine fans, largely stayed out of the spotlight, but took a vocal stand when the NFL seemed to be coming about BB and/or Brady.

Then we got into some of the mid-life/end of life billionaire crisis era of Kraft, dating/marrying women 33-50 years younger than him. The massage incident.

Now we have entered the trash the people that made you successful era. My own view has fallen from a 10/10 to more of a 4/10. I'm grateful for the success, but I'd prefer another owner at this point. It feels like we're getting closer to a BB gets a standing ovation while Kraft gets booed stage of perception towards these two. Not fully there, but the odds are getting closer.

Where do you stand?

 

[The Social Chair]

We're pretty close to Robert Kraft getting heavily booed when they show his face at a Patriots or Celtics game. Interesting choice to spend the last few years of your life taking the shine off the team's glory years when the team will be bad for the foreseeable future.

He's made some poor PR decisions over the last year or two, but I don't think he's done anything bad beyond that. Just really bad optics.

 

[lexrageorge]

I'm curious where people fall out on their assessment and view towards the Kraft family. For about two decades they were 10/10 in my book. Paid for the stadium by themselves, ran a great organization, seemed like genuine fans, largely stayed out of the spotlight, but took a vocal stand when the NFL seemed to be coming about BB and/or Brady.

Then we got into some of the mid-life/end of life billionaire crisis era of Kraft, dating/marrying women 33-50 years younger than him. The massage incident.

Now we have entered the trash the people that made you successful era. My own view has fallen from a 10/10 to more of a 4/10. I'm grateful for the success, but I'd prefer another owner at this point. It feels like we're getting closer to a BB gets a standing ovation while Kraft gets booed stage of perception towards these two. Not fully there, but the odds are getting closer.

Where do you stand?

Robert Kraft gets at least 8 non-deductible points for keeping the team from moving; seriously, people do need to realize that the team had basically packed its bags for St Louis until RK stepped in. And everything else since then has been great. Not perfect (nobody is), but definitely in the "don't let perfect be the enemy of merely great". Give him 9/10, maybe 8.5. As for his personal life, that is irrelevant; NFL owners are going to NFL owner regardless.

One thing that has changed is that Jonathan is likely getting more and more involved in running the team. Now, Jonathan has done some really good things in the background. But the hatchet jobs on Belichick seem to have a lot of Jonathan's fingerprints on them. So, 5/10 seems about right for Jonathan.

I cannot necessarily blame them for all the media reports; I'm sure over the 24 years, Robert and Jonathan swore at or about Belichick on numerous occasions, and those comments were probably overheard by lower level employees who were more than happy to get their 5 minutes of fame with Wickersham and others. The Krafts are free to talk about how they feel about Bill with their closest friends and confidants, and not every story will be glowing. Such is life, and the media will always emphasize the juicy stories over the many hours of meetings and other routine events that took place over the years.

But the utter trashing of Belichick to fellow owners is uncalled for, as were some of the editorial choices in Dynasty (seriously, Belichick did not cause Aaron Hernandez to go around killing people). The concern now is whether the new Wolf/Mayo regime will be given the tools and opportunity to be successful; if not, then, yes, the Krafts will get booed on a regular basis in Foxboro, and rightfully so.

 

[DJnVa]

Honestly, don't much care.

We've always talked about teams getting a grace period if they win a title or something---I really don't care enough to think this does anything to take the shine off the joy of watching all that winning. All things end. The dynasty ended. The pros of what he did outweigh any of this TMZ stuff about marrying younger women or whatever.

Does anyone ever say "Man, that Patriots dynasty was something! I would have it #1 of all-time if it wasn't for Kraft's second wife being young and hot and then that happy ending thing!"

 

[Jimbodandy]

Honestly, don't much care.

We've always talked about teams getting a grace period if they win a title or something---I really don't care enough to think this does anything to take the shine off the joy of watching all that winning. All things end. The dynasty ended. The pros of what he did outweigh any of this TMZ stuff about marrying younger women or whatever.

Does anyone ever say "Man, that Patriots dynasty was seomthing! I would have it #1 of all-time if it wasn't for Kraft's second wife being young and hot and then that happy ending thing!"

Bronze this.

 

[Kliq]

Honestly, don't much care.

We've always talked about teams getting a grace period if they win a title or something---I really don't care enough to think this does anything to take the shine off the joy of watching all that winning. All things end. The dynasty ended. The pros of what he did outweigh any of this TMZ stuff about marrying younger women or whatever.

Does anyone ever say "Man, that Patriots dynasty was seomthing! I would have it #1 of all-time if it wasn't for Kraft's second wife being young and hot and then that happy ending thing!"

Yeah, I have no real interest in the Dynasty series or the Wickersham article or really anything that is about the ending of the Kraft/BB era. People who watched the team on the field over the past few seasons knew something needed to change--the fact that Kraft and BB were not best buddies anymore doesn't really make me care all that much. I feel like all the post-Brady pieces on what went wrong with the Patriots is just fodder for the millions of Patriot haters out there, not for actual Pats fans.

 

[Bowhemian]

6 championships over 20-something years buys a lot of leeway from me. I realize some of you aren’t old enough to remember the pre-Kraft days, but make no mistake, the Patriots were a train wreck before Kraft bought the team.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Kraft is what every owner is, an egoist who wants to play with his toys. He wants to schmooze celebs, pretend the QB is his buddy because he's cool (not because he cuts the checks) and that he's a genius in all things.

When he had the best dynasty ever in his sport he could do that. The minute it slipped he needed to find a way to assure people that it wasn't his fault. Jonathan... he's a billionaire's son... like most he's never had a real job, and has his current one because his dad gave it to him not any particular skill. That's just the way things go in the Sports business.

Is Kraft better than most owners... not really, but he's also hopefully not much worse either. He's around average. So far at least his only truly embarrassing things are the massage parlor affair and being a tone deaf ingrate about Bill. Which I'll take over the guys who run frat house front offices, sexually harrass women in the workplace, are virulent racists etc.

 

[astrozombie]

I don't have much of a problem with the Krafts. From a football perspective, they are like someone who makes one good investment (BB and by extension, Brady) and were able to grow wealthy off that investment by staying hands off and letting the investment do all the work. But now that the investment was taken private and they are forced to re-invest that money (Wolfe and Mayo), we'll see how well they do and if they are actually really good or were just really lucky. I don't know the answer. But the Krafts played their hand well for about 20 years and it is hard to argue with that.
The personal stuff with Robert (however you choose to define that) is really not that much different from other owners, so that isn't much of an issue for me. Keeping the Pats in New England was obviously huge. And he is a legit fan which all things considered, I would rather have than a hedge fund manager treating the team as part of a portfolio.

 

[deanx0]

Yeah, I am stunned that between the Krafts and Henry, people are complaining about our owners. As Bowhemian states about the Patriots (and can also be applied to the Sox), the 70s-2000 were just awful and I thought my teams would never win a championship, and now the two have combined for 10! Plus keep in mind, that it's unlikely that some other billionaire out there is a wonderful person and better than what we currently have.

 

[Comfortably Lomb]

Don't care who BK is married to or dating. Don't care what his extracurricular activities look like in general. Not my business.

I don't think Patriots (or Red Sox) fans should be complaining about ownership. It's an embarrassment that they are after the last few decades of ridiculous success.

 

[moretsyndrome]

6 championships over 20-something years buys a lot of leeway from me. I realize some of you aren’t old enough to remember the pre-Kraft days, but make no mistake, the Patriots were a train wreck before Kraft bought the team.

Amen. As much as find myself worrying that the franchise could be headed for a prolonged stretch of futility here, I don't think it's time to entertain any notions of new ownership. Just as I'm legit worried that the Sox could lose >100 games this year, I struggle to think of better replacements at the top in either case. It's hard to say, of course. I don't have a whole lot of interaction with people who can afford to bribe their way into the NFL or MLB, but it seems as though we've gotten lucky here overall in the last 20-30 years.

I would keep an eye on Jonathan though. I'm sure he's a competent guy, but he definitely lacks his father's duende. Maybe it's from years of experience in a smaller company that was run by a father and son who could play the Krafts in a movie, but it could go south fast if he's not the right guy to take over.

 

[astrozombie]

One thing I forgot to add - the NFLPA report card from 2024 gave the Pats' ownership a D+, or 27th our of 32. I am legit curious why players would view the Krafts as a bottom 5 ownership group in the league. Obviously their criteria for what makes a good ownership group is different than mine, but still curious.

 

[BigSoxFan]

My view of Kraft is mostly positive but he gets dinged for letting Belichick win the power struggle with TB12.

 

[Cellar-Door]

One thing I forgot to add - the NFLPA report card from 2024 gave the Pats' ownership a D+, or 27th our of 32. I am legit curious why players would view the Krafts as a bottom 5 ownership group in the league. Obviously their criteria for what makes a good ownership group is different than mine, but still curious.

It's in the subcategories, but it's pretty basic.... they don't spend much money on player amenities or facilities. One of the worst weight rooms in the league, deeply unimpressive training facilities, terrible family support facilities and practices, etc. The players rating of ownership (the Hunts fell near the very bottom despite a SB) is almost entirely about who they think is cheap, which matter more to them than the fans.

 

[Justthetippett]

If they put a good team on the field through smart (but real) spending and generally shut up and let the professionals do their jobs, then they'll be fine. It was more fun when they considered themselves more fans and less experts who had to chide everyone for their criticism. They haven't had to deal with much adversity (in terms of team success, not the Hernandez ordeal and everthing else). This is relatively new for them. I find them insufferable in the moment but will be happy to change mind when the team has more success.

 

[BigSoxFan]

If they put a good team on the field through smart (but real) spending and generally shut up and let the professionals do their jobs, then they'll be fine. It was more fun when they considered themselves more fans and less experts who had to chide everyone for their criticism. They haven't had to deal with much adversity (in terms of team success, not the Hernandez ordeal and everthing else). This is relatively new for them. I find them insufferable in the moment but will be happy to change mind when the team has more success.

Yup. And, truthfully, I won’t even care if they go full Jerry Jones if the team hits on the right QB at #3. That pick alone will take all of the attention off of them. Right now, there is a void since Mayo is new and we don’t have a franchise QB to soak up (news) coverage.

 

[Mystic Merlin]

Much like Red Sox ownership, my gratitude for preserving the team (in the case of the Sox, it’s Fenway) and bringing about unprecedented success (in league/sports history for the Pats, franchise history for the Sox) drastically outweighs my issues with the Krafts. I’m not going to lie about my distaste for how they’re treating Bill on his way out, as it mirrors my distaste for how the Sox treated Tito on the way out - it’s there/never going away in terms of how I feel about them. But I don’t discount their importance in my sports life or begrudge them the success they helped to bring.

 

[InstaFace]

I'm still 10/10. While he still had it, Bob Kraft made the most important decisions correctly, showed the right emotional restraint in not meddling, did everything you could ask an owner to do.

Everyone loses their fastball eventually. Belichick and Kraft and Brady too. I'm not going to hold 82yo Bob Kraft to the same standard as I would a guy in his 50s when he bought the team, and before he'd done anything of note for the team. Those flags fly forever.

Compare it to Eddie DeBartolo. For 20 years he empowered the right guys in Bill Walsh and Walsh's chosen successors like Seifert, he had the good sense to get out of the way, and he wrote the checks Walsh et al needed to keep the band together. Then he was part of some crookedness with Louisiana's governor and basically got run out of the NFL on a rail. So be it, not saying Tagliabue shouldn't have held his feet to the fire at that point, but if you're a Niners fan, are you going to let that ruin your memory of the DeBartolo era? He built everything that made you a fan and made your team the envy of the league for two decades. Shouldn't a normal person just feel gratitude?

None of this means that Bob Kraft shouldn't shut up and change his tune right now, of course. But I'm not going to forget the previous 30 years when deciding what I think of him, either.

(and the massage / affairs / personal stuff doesn't change what I think. We make fun of Irsay and Jerry Jones, everyone can make fun of Kraft for his personal issues, but as a fan, until and unless those issues spill into on-the-field stuff, I don't care, it's a curiosity and tabloid fodder only)

 

[trekfan55]

The only thing that makes me think a little bit is how it ended. Did Tom Brady in fact have to leave pr could he have stayed?

Also, Bill Belichick deserved better than a parting of ways and a basic "blacklist".

That being said, he should get credit for all that he did. Patriots fans are truly lucky to have enjoyed such a long run of continued success.

 

[InstaFace]

It's in the subcategories, but it's pretty basic.... they don't spend much money on player amenities or facilities. One of the worst weight rooms in the league, deeply unimpressive training facilities, terrible family support facilities and practices, etc. The players rating of ownership (the Hunts fell near the very bottom despite a SB) is almost entirely about who they think is cheap, which matter more to them than the fans.

And this, too, is strange. They went and got a private jet just for the team's use. Haven't they been first in the league in a lot of player-amenities stuff?

If the players were complaining about Foxboro and just the general remoteness of Gillette, then I'd get that much, at least. But the stadium is at least somewhat new at this point, probably median by NFL standards. Some of this stuff just feels really small-bore.

Not that it matters as to the thread's question, of course. I agree the players have a very different set of priorities than the fans, and it shouldn't matter to our own evaluation except insofar as it affects whether FAs come here. Players will come and go, fans stay. NFL = Not For Long.

 

[Cellar-Door]

And this, too, is strange. They went and got a private jet just for the team's use. Haven't they been first in the league in a lot of player-amenities stuff?

If the players were complaining about Foxboro and just the general remoteness of Gillette, then I'd get that much, at least. But the stadium is at least somewhat new at this point, probably median by NFL standards. Some of this stuff just feels really small-bore.

Not that it matters as to the thread's question, of course. I agree the players have a very different set of priorities than the fans, and it shouldn't matter to our own evaluation except insofar as it affects whether FAs come here. Players will come and go, fans stay. NFL = Not For Long.

The Jet is kind of an ego thing though... the other teams fly private too, and many of them are on newer/better planes because they don't own them. Recently also they weren't using the plane for a while due to a contract dispute with the company that operates it.
As to the rest... they have no family rooms... that's insane. They don't have much of anything in terms of player family accomodations, no day-care... almost every team has that stuff. The weight room is universally considered the worst in the league to the point guys said they prefer to use off-site facilities that are better. Foxboro is middle of the pack in terms of age, but it's probably one of the least recently updated in terms of player-side improvements. Almost all the investment has been in Patriot place's revenue generating portions, and stuff like the lighthouse, scoreboard.
There also were not fixes from previous surveys, despite him supposedly saying they were going to re-do the weight rooms for a while now. So yeah.... I don't think the perception by players that Kraft isn't spending on player accomodations isn't justified.

My guess is now that he got particularly embarrassed publicly he'll throw some money at it.

 

[BaseballJones]

Kraft kept the Pats in Massachusetts, where they belong. In the process, he hung Connecticut out to dry. He also brought in Belichick, the GOAT, and largely (not always, but largely) stayed out of BB's way in terms of running the team.

But man, if any of these fairly recent stories are even remotely true, he's really stuck it to BB in a bad way, which puts RKK in a terrible light, IMO. You don't like the way he's run the team the past few years, I get it. Fire him. But the whole idea of him poisoning the well with other owners with regards to BB...man if that's true, what a jerk move.

EDIT: Here's an SI story (from 2017) about the Pats almost moving to CT. If you read the article you'll see why RKK has a favorable relationship with the current commissioner, and which may explain much of RKK's behavior towards him even during the "gate" scandals.

 

[brandonchristensen]

Appreciate what he did - but IMO when his wife died, he transformed into a billionaire playboy thing that is wholly unlikeable. His legacy will be destroyed in time. Bill's will skyrocket.

 

[jcd0805]

Appreciate what he did - but IMO when his wife died, he transformed into a billionaire playboy thing that is wholly unlikeable. His legacy will be destroyed in time. Bill's will skyrocket.

Agree completely with this.

 

[Deathofthebambino]

I've talked about this a few times. IMO, Bob Kraft was the best owner in sports for a period of over 20 years. He did that by being a face of the franchise, while his work was done behind the scenes. He got out of the way and let two GOATs handle the football side of the equation. And the moves to St. Louis and Hartford were absolutely happening if not for him being a Boston guy. A family friend of ours, who was Kraft's CFO and right hand finance guy for most of his ownership had to move his family to St. Louis for almost 2 years in anticipation of that move, then they moved to Hartford and then back to the Foxboro area.

But this turn by Kraft the last couple years, and specifically his version of events as portrayed in the Dynasty series soured me so much that I just gave up 2 of my 4 season tickets (tickets that go back to Fenway Park mind you). I don't like revisionist bullshit, and I don't like people who cover their asses at the expense of someone else, and when that someone else is the greatest coach of all time...It did not have to end the way it did, Bill has taken the high road, as has Brady for the most part, but Bob fucking Kraft who had next to nothing to do with the day to day of the team is out there talking about Tommy this, and Drew that as if he made those calls. Fuck that..

And I will continue to wonder in amazement at the narratives surrounding Jonathan Kraft, who unlike his dad, has been running this team behind the scenes for about 20 years. Bob got to be the fun uncle, while Jonathan is the guy making the decisions that affect our lives as fans. For me, I think the best thing for the Pats will be Bob disappearing to Palm Beach and Jonathan not having to look over his shoulder and wonder what mess he has to clean up next. Dude is brilliant, literally brilliant. You don't get to be the Chairman of the Board of Mass. General Hospital unless you know how to run an organization.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Appreciate what he did - but IMO when his wife died, he transformed into a billionaire playboy thing that is wholly unlikeable. His legacy will be destroyed in time. Bill's will skyrocket.

Hard disagree.

After all this time people know where they stand on these characters. It feels like folks either love Kraft for all he's done or dislike him for his body of work. If his legacy is being destroyed its with people who were already deeply inclined that way. Ditto BB.

RKK isn't a saint but he cares deeply about the Patriots and the fans. Results aside, that's orders of magnitude better than it was under prior ownership.

 

[NextBigThing8184]

What’s the overlap in people who wanted BB gone for reasons such as “terrible GM - NKeal, Strange, JuJu, Meyers”, “bad man fat Patricia, cronyism” and “it was all Brady look at Tampa or BB in Cleveland” and those who think Kraft is doing some sort of hatchet job on BB?

It seems like a vocal minority (or small majority?) of Pats fans have been pissing all over BB for a couple years now, and those who object to Kraft’s PR moves the last few months are probably mostly those who didn’t want to see BB leave.

I suppose there’s a small subset that thought having BB the supposedly terrible GM leave would lead to a new GM making “better” decisions with spending cash on free agents, flashy moves for WR etc who are now both anti-BB and anti-Kraft simply out of frustration

In short, if you think BB got a raw deal, you’re probably at least raising an eyebrow at the Krafts. If you think BB needed to go, you’re probably indifferent or supporting the Krafts’ actions.

 

[JOBU]

Kraft kept the Pats in Massachusetts, where they belong. In the process, he hung Connecticut out to dry. He also brought in Belichick, the GOAT, and largely (not always, but largely) stayed out of BB's way in terms of running the team.

But man, if any of these fairly recent stories are even remotely true, he's really stuck it to BB in a bad way, which puts RKK in a terrible light, IMO. You don't like the way he's run the team the past few years, I get it. Fire him. But the whole idea of him poisoning the well with other owners with regards to BB...man if that's true, what a jerk move.

EDIT: Here's an SI story (from 2017) about the Pats almost moving to CT. If you read the article you'll see why RKK has a favorable relationship with the current commissioner, and which may explain much of RKK's behavior towards him even during the "gate" scandals.

As a CT resident (back then) I remember how excited I was for Hartford to land the patriots. This was of course right after the Whalers left for Raleigh. Then the rug was pulled out from under us again. Such a dark time in the landscape of CT sports. In hindsight I believe that the announced move was just a ploy to get more money from the state of MA. I’m assuming it was in the form of tax breaks as Gillette was all private funds. I’m not sure if he would have still moved the team if MA didn’t step up. I think moving the team to Hartford would have been a horrible move in the long run.

It’s amazing how winning can really blind you to all the negative stuff.

 

[Van Everyman]

The book The Dynasty is based on by Jeff Benedict is worth a read. It’s generally flattering to Kraft (who participated extensively as did Brady’s camp) but also well very researched and, unlike the series for a of posters, will probably make fans here feel good about the partnership.

As for a few other mostly pro-Kraft points:

Kraft didn’t just get lucky with one investment – he navigated an incredibly challenging environment to buy the team through 3 different owners, one of whom went bankrupt twice, and a league that was somewhat hesitant to let him in to the club. And then, yeah, stuck it to John Rowland in Connecticut.

Kraft managed the Belichick-Brady relationship a lot more through the “good years” than we knew at the time. The deal Kraft made with Brady that he would let him leave when it was time to go rather than tie him to a contract, team and coach he didn’t want was made back in 2010.

Jonathan is a pretty well respected guy. I’m as much of an eye-roller at scions of the wealthy as anyone but he’s sharp and as chair of the Mass General board he’s regarded as having done a very good job (they don’t give those roles to anybody).Fake edit: @Deathofthebambino beat me to that.

I’m less angry about the parting stuff than some people. I’m sure Team Bill has been getting in its shots behind the scenes as well. As TB12 Sr. said about his son, it was always going to end badly.

I care a lot more about what happens the next few years. But the Wolf/Mayo tandem Robert and Jonathan have put in place—in theory at least—is being done the right way. Moving on from Bill but not throwing the baby out with the bath water in terms of the culture that’s been built over the last 2+ decades. Trying to reorient what was built to today’s game. Not sure I’d want much more from ownership than that right now.

 

[Bigdogx]

Well regardless of how much rope the members here want to cut Bob has made himself the new media whooping boy by his actions over the last year.... If he did basically sabotage Bill from getting the Falcons job that is just about as dirty and low-brow as it gets. I dont understand how you do that to a guy that gave you 2 decades and 6 titles!

 

[snowmanny]

Kraft has been an excellent owner. I'm glad the family owns the team. But, in sports owners need to understand they are not the stars, and that there's a fair amount of stuff that they should keep in-house. This Pats run has had star players, including the biggest star player, and star coaches, including the greatest star coach. And credit will go to the stars. Anything negative about Belichick that comes out of the Kraft camp seems like jealousy to me.

 

[nattysez]

The image of Kraft wearing a stopwatch while watching Tebucky Jones work out is seared in my memory. That guy was smart enough to hire keep Parcells and (likely with a not-so-gentle push from the Tuna) get out of the way. He hired three two HOF head coaches, which is a pretty impressive run by any standard.

Unfortunately, despite his many accomplishments, he's convinced himself that he needs to be in the NFL HoF, and I think a lot of what's happened in recent years is colored by that. The Dynasty book and show hagiographies, the increasingly specific off-season statements about what he expects the team to do, etc., all seem to be designed to position him for HoF consideration.

And I agree with the sentiment that if you lived through the 70s through 90s with the Pats and lived through their near-move, it's going to take a lot to turn on Kraft.

I don't have even close to the level of animus toward Kraft that I do toward Henry. You can argue with things Kraft has done, but I think Kraft has done his damnedest to field the best team possible every year.* Henry & Co. have closed their pocketbooks and admit that they are not as focused on the Sox as they once were. Fuck those guys.

*I remain puzzled by the facilities and family support grades from the NFLPA report. Kraft seems to love being loved by the players, so I'm befuddled as to why he'd let the facilities degenerate to the point they apparently did. My feelings about Kraft may change a bit if it turns out that he's been scrimping and saving on things that would improve players' ability to be in top condition on Sundays.

 

[jsinger121]

The image of Kraft wearing a stopwatch while watching Tebucky Jones work out is seared in my memory. That guy was smart enough to hire Parcells and (likely with a not-so-gentle push from the Tuna) get out of the way. He hired three HOF head coaches, which is a pretty impressive run by any standard.

Unfortunately, despite his many accomplishments, he's convinced himself that he needs to be in the NFL HoF, and I think a lot of what's happened in recent years is colored by that. The Dynasty book and show hagiographies, the increasingly specific off-season statements about what he expects the team to do, etc., all seem to be designed to position him for HoF consideration.

And I agree with the sentiment that if you lived through the 70s through 90s with the Pats and lived through their near-move, it's going to take a lot to turn on Kraft.

I don't have even close to the level of animus toward Kraft that I do toward Henry. You can argue with things Kraft has done, but I think Kraft has done his damnedest to field the best team possible every year.* Henry & Co. have closed their pocketbooks and admit that they are not as focused on the Sox as they once were. Fuck those guys.

*I remain puzzled by the facilities and family support grades from the NFLPA report. Kraft seems to love being loved by the players, so I'm befuddled as to why he'd let the facilities degenerate to the point they apparently did. My feelings about Kraft may change a bit if it turns out that he's been scrimping and saving on things that would improve players' ability to be in top condition on Sundays.

except he didn’t hire parcells.

 

[jose melendez]

He's been an extremely good owner and a slightly below average person. Not a horrible person, but not that good either. I mostly care about the former from my team owners.

I do think the Myra factor is real. I remember all of the stuff when they took over the Pats about wanting to be sure they could run a successful team without covering for all sorts of terrible people. The Christian Peter incident showed they were actually serious--no other team had a problem taking him on, even though he was a really bad guy.

But that's long gone. He's a preening rich asshole--not being that as an NFL owner would be a stunner--but he's put a good product on the field and for 20 years, he BB, and TB12 were able to have coexisting egos to the benefit of all. A lot of preening assholes can't do that.

 

[nattysez]

except he didn’t hire parcells.

I have a mental block about this that apparently is worsening as I age. Thanks.

 

[Jimbodandy]

What’s the overlap in people who wanted BB gone for reasons such as “terrible GM - NKeal, Strange, JuJu, Meyers”, “bad man fat Patricia, cronyism” and “it was all Brady look at Tampa or BB in Cleveland” and those who think Kraft is doing some sort of hatchet job on BB?

It seems like a vocal minority (or small majority?) of Pats fans have been pissing all over BB for a couple years now, and those who object to Kraft’s PR moves the last few months are probably mostly those who didn’t want to see BB leave.

I suppose there’s a small subset that thought having BB the supposedly terrible GM leave would lead to a new GM making “better” decisions with spending cash on free agents, flashy moves for WR etc who are now both anti-BB and anti-Kraft simply out of frustration

In short, if you think BB got a raw deal, you’re probably at least raising an eyebrow at the Krafts. If you think BB needed to go, you’re probably indifferent or supporting the Krafts’ actions.

I'm not sure whether I agree with your points here or not, but I fully endorse the contempt that is dripping from this post.

 

[DennyDoyle'sBoil]

I don't care about much of it. Kicking Belichick on the way out the door is a weird miscalculation that leaves a bad taste in my mouth, but mostly because it's recent. Also, it's weird judgment. Like why does he think that's ok?

But really it's not a thing I think about much. He strikes me as a guy who thinks that he's more responsible for the championships than he really is. Which is a big so what to me. He is responsible for the championships in part. That he gives himself an extra 20 percentage points when he thinks about it doesn't matter to me.

 

[RG33]

The Krafts remain a 10/10 for me. I don’t give a shit who they’re married to or banging. The handy was a bad look, but I have 10 good friends who have done the same. The BB stuff is silly and ego, who cares.

Go Pats.

 

[TomRicardo]

I would have said great before Dynasty. Not sure why they decided to do a hit piece on Belichick on the way out. Guys like Ty Law, Matt Slater, and Edelman have already come out and say the doc doesn't sit right with them.

 

[djbayko]

I'm sure the dating lives of many men would change drastically if they became billionaires. Completely irrelevant to me.

 

[cornwalls@6]

He's been an extremely good owner and a slightly below average person. Not a horrible person, but not that good either. I mostly care about the former from my team owners.

I do think the Myra factor is real. I remember all of the stuff when they took over the Pats about wanting to be sure they could run a successful team without covering for all sorts of terrible people. The Christian Peter incident showed they were actually serious--no other team had a problem taking him on, even though he was a really bad guy.

But that's long gone. He's a preening rich asshole--not being that as an NFL owner would be a stunner--but he's put a good product on the field and for 20 years, he BB, and TB12 were able to have coexisting egos to the benefit of all. A lot of preening assholes can't do that.

This pretty much sums up where I am, at least terms of his personal life/character. The orchids of Asia thing was phenomenally stupid, and showed terrible judgment. Beyond that, who he’s dating or socializing with means absolutely nothing to me. I am souring on him a bit over these pitiful attempts to smear/deny credit to BB since they parted ways. And I suspect will, kind of already is, backfire on him. But he did keep the team here, after a false start or two, hired the right guy to run the operation, and for the most part, stayed out of his way during the greatest run any team in the NFL has ever had. He deserves credit for that. Though not as much as I suspect he thinks he does.

 

[Deathofthebambino]

Well regardless of how much rope the members here want to cut Bob has made himself the new media whooping boy by his actions over the last year.... If he did basically sabotage Bill from getting the Falcons job that is just about as dirty and low-brow as it gets. I dont understand how you do that to a guy that gave you 2 decades and 6 titles!

For folks who may not know about the bolded, this was the report today from ESPN:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39955777/how-patriots-legend-bill-belichick-end-nfl-job

But in a conversation with Blank, Kraft delivered a stark assessment of Belichick's character, according to a source who spoke to two people: a close Kraft friend and a longtime Belichick confidant. The source quoted the Belichick source as saying, "Robert called Arthur to warn him not to trust Bill." That account was backed up, the source said, by the close Kraft friend.

Multiple sources said that Kraft spoke with "some candor" to Blank about Belichick, though the sources declined to elaborate. One source close to Belichick said Kraft "was a big part" of why the Falcons passed on hiring him.

The sources said Kraft made clear to Blank that "you'll never have a warm conversation with" Belichick, echoing what Bill Parcells told Kraft in 1996 when he wanted to bust the budget and hire Belichick. "Blank likes coaches who feel part of a family," a Falcons source said, "and it wasn't going to be that way with Bill."

The comments were consistent with what Kraft had been telling confidants for months: After an unprecedented run, after Spygate and Aaron Hernandez, after backing his coach in moving on from Brady, after disagreements public (cash the Krafts were willing to spend) and private (leaking against each other directly or through associates), the owner had lost trust in Belichick, which was a key reason for their deteriorating working relationship and the end of the Patriot Way. A second source close to Kraft said, "[Kraft] found Bill to be extremely difficult and obstinate and kind of stubborn and, in the end, not worthy of his trust. And also very, very, very arrogant."

The same source said he did not know if Kraft had warned Blank about Belichick's trustworthiness, but he said both Krafts felt "betrayed" by the coach. "I don't think they'd try to hurt Belichick," he said. "But I don't think they'd try to help him either. They weren't going to try to sink him. He was finished as an effective head coach. Just look at his last four years in New England. A disaster ... If you're Arthur Blank, why do you want the headaches?"

A spokesman for Kraft strongly denied that Kraft said anything disparaging about Belichick during the owners' two phone conversations in January.

"Robert steadfastly denies saying anything negative to Arthur Blank about Bill Belichick after Robert and Bill mutually agreed to part ways," Patriots spokesman Stacey James said. "In fact, Robert advocated for Bill to get the job."






There is a lot more in that story.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

There are two parties to the BB Kraft stuff and those are two very successful people with massive egos. In my experience, it takes two to tango and the tea leaves suggest both sides were being nasty towards the end.

That said, their divorce, messy or not doesn't change what they did together one bit. I still love both parents equally.

 

[EvilEmpire]

Wow. Who knows if any of that is true, but if so, Kraft must really hate BB. Or really not want to see him coach successfully elsewhere. Or both.

Makes Kraft sound small.

 

[Justthetippett]

Wow. Who knows if any of that is true, but if so, Kraft must really hate BB. Or really not want to see him coach successfully elsewhere. Or both.

Makes Kraft sound small.

Kraft did, however, have many warm conversations with Aaron Hernandez, so maybe it's his judge of character and trust that's a bit off. Or he just can't appreciate that Bill is almost certainly on the spectrum and doesn't do warm and cuddly and kiss the owner's ass. He just does his job.

 

[Pandemonium67]

I'm glad I've read this thread and found two very positive comments about Jonathan's competence. I hadn't heard much at all about him and figured he got his gigs solely because of his billionaire dad. I also figure, for better or worse, the Pats will be his for the rest of my lifetime. Now I have some hope it's for the better.

As for RK and BB, I think history will remember both well as the passing of time adds luster to the Pats Dynasty. Personally, I give RK a good dose of credit, but he's lost a fair amount of shine lately. I give BB credit as the GOAT and dynasty architect. Nothing would have happened without him and he's firmly in place in New England's Mt. Rushmore of coaches.

 

[dcdrew10]

My biggest complaint against Kraft is the incessant tag line "We are all Patriots!" any time the Pats had success and a microphone was put in front of his face.

Are people really desperate to go back to the previous owners?

• Billy Sullivan was a mediocre (at best) businessman who had to be cheap because he didn't have the coin to be a modern NFL owner. The Pats didn't have a permanent home until AFTER the AFL/NFL merger and almost got moved to Tampa because of it. His idiot team-exec son Chuck Sullivan ran Chuck Fairbanks out of town, nearly ran John Hannah and Leon Grey out of town, and reneged on Daryl Stingley's contract extension after he was paralyzed. The team went bankrupt under their watch, losing money, despite having the highest ticket prices in the league.
• Victor Kiam, who called Lisa Olsen "a classic bitch" because she had the audacity to be a "woman reporter" and ask pointed questions after a loss.
• James Orthwein was the second best owner, but overlooked his ability to get out of a stadium lease with a die-hard fan and fellow rich guy, therefore was unable to move the team to STL.

None of the previous owners were splitting the atom. Kraft has definitely lost his fastball and is doing what rich, powerful people do, blame other people for their organization's decline/failings, but he:

• Married well and turned his in-laws' company into an industry leader that allowed him to lay the foundation for becoming an NFL owner.
• Went from a parking lot owner to an NFL team owner in 3 moves.
• Saved NFL football in New England.
• Learned from his Parcels experience and got out of his own way with BB.
• Became a powerful voice in the NFL ownership group.
• Built a stadium without public financing.
• Built a stadium without public financing (this cannot be emphasized enough).

 

[brandonchristensen]

Kraft did, however, have many warm conversations with Aaron Hernandez, so maybe it's his judge of character and trust that's a bit off. Or he just can't appreciate that Bill is almost certainly on the spectrum and doesn't do warm and cuddly and kiss the owner's ass. He just does his job.

Yeah but Aaron only killed because Bill didn't trade him.

Bill is a murderer.

 

[mauf]

Kraft kept the Pats in Massachusetts, where they belong. In the process, he hung Connecticut out to dry. He also brought in Belichick, the GOAT, and largely (not always, but largely) stayed out of BB's way in terms of running the team.

But man, if any of these fairly recent stories are even remotely true, he's really stuck it to BB in a bad way, which puts RKK in a terrible light, IMO. You don't like the way he's run the team the past few years, I get it. Fire him. But the whole idea of him poisoning the well with other owners with regards to BB...man if that's true, what a jerk move.

EDIT: Here's an SI story (from 2017) about the Pats almost moving to CT. If you read the article you'll see why RKK has a favorable relationship with the current commissioner, and which may explain much of RKK's behavior towards him even during the "gate" scandals.

If memory serves, the CT Legislature stripped out some of the most generous promises made by Rowland, such as the guaranteed sale of luxury suites and the make-up payments for local sponsorship dollars. Once you stripped out those elements, the deal was generous, but not egregiously so. At that point, a decent deal in Foxboro was better than what was on offer in Hartford. We’ll never know if Kraft would’ve moved the team if the initial terms had not been modified; it’s obviously in Kraft’s interests now to say it was all a bluff, but I’m not sure.

YMMV whether any of that should affect our assessment of his tenure. A Hartford stadium with well-planned egress would be at least as convenient as Foxboro for many of us.