The Game Ball Thread: Wk. 17 vs Miami

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Ohhhh “entitlement”! The word of the year on SoSH!

It’s the audacity of people who want to watch a functional offense. How dare they?!

Its real. There are people who have made the same exact posts each week about Jones, Patricia, Judge, BB, the OL etc etc as if they are owed a functional offense. Nobody is owed or deserves it and some fanbases wait for decades to even sniff it. It may not be audacity but it it is entitlement.

This fanbase has had nearly two decades of sustained excellence and four years into a transitional period we have posters losing their minds because now they suddenly know more about how to run an NFL team than Bill Belichick.

If that isn't entitlement - and its completely understandable how we got here - I don't know what is. We deserve this!

 

[Van Everyman]

Yep. Sorry, we’re not entitled to shit. We’ve overdosed on the best team run in the history of modern sports.

Is it completely frustrating that the team has almost the same personnel as last year and looks significantly less organized on offense? Yes – I actually think we’re more talented this year with Rham going supernova and Parker on the outside but whatever.

Did a lot of us expect Mac to take a step toward becoming one of the better quarterbacks in football? Yes – I actually wondered whether he might have elite decision making skills based on his rookie season.

Does Patricia deserve a good chunk of the blame for the inconsistent mess this offense is on a weekly basis? 100%.

But after everything we’ve been fortunate to be a part of—slaying Goliath in 2001, two dynastic runs, the best play in football history, the best win in football history, the best season in football history, the best player in football history and the best coach as well—the foot stomping tantrums and I-told-you-so’s of this year are just entitled as fuck.

As @DeJesus Built My Hotrod said, we not only don’t deserve anything – we already got it and besides that, what we have now is still interesting. Enough already.

 

[tims4wins]

It’s not like he chose Jon Bon Jovi as OC.

It’s only Jan 2, but this is my favorite line of the year so far

 

[BigSoxFan]

It’s not like he chose Jon Bon Jovi as OC.

I wish he had…

 

[8slim]

Its real. There are people who have made the same exact posts each week about Jones, Patricia, Judge, BB, the OL etc etc as if they are owed a functional offense. Nobody is owed or deserves it and some fanbases wait for decades to even sniff it. It may not be audacity but it it is entitlement.

This fanbase has had nearly two decades of sustained excellence and four years into a transitional period we have posters losing their minds because now they suddenly know more about how to run an NFL team than Bill Belichick.

If that isn't entitlement - and its completely understandable how we got here - I don't know what is. We deserve this!

Yep. Sorry, we’re not entitled to shit. We’ve overdosed on the best team run in the history of modern sports.

Is it completely frustrating that the team has almost the same personnel as last year and looks significantly less organized on offense? Yes – I actually think we’re more talented this year with Rham going supernova and Parker on the outside but whatever.

Did a lot of us expect Mac to take a step toward becoming one of the better quarterbacks in football? Yes – I actually wondered whether he might have elite decision making skills based on his rookie season.

Does Patricia deserve a good chunk of the blame for the inconsistent mess this offense is on a weekly basis? 100%.

But after everything we’ve been fortunate to be a part of—slaying Goliath in 2001, two dynastic runs, the best play in football history, the best win in football history, the best season in football history, the best player in football history and the best coach as well—the foot stomping tantrums and I-told-you-so’s of this year are just entitled as fuck.

As @DeJesus Built My Hotrod said, we not only don’t deserve anything – we already got it and besides that, what we have now is still interesting. Enough already.

It’s sports. You guys are acting like it’s something critically important. Who gives a fuck if people are spoiled? How does it matter?

At least people care. I’m old enough to remember when almost no one gave a shit about the Patriots at all. Maybe you’ll be happy when we’re back to that point? Then we’ll just have a small group of “true fans”. And we’ll be noble and just. Huzzah.

Honestly, I see you guys railing in game threads every week about us bad fans and I think you really enjoy wagging your finger at everyone. I think it brings you joy, whether you admit it or not.

 

[Jinhocho]

Its real. There are people who have made the same exact posts each week about Jones, Patricia, Judge, BB, the OL etc etc as if they are owed a functional offense. Nobody is owed or deserves it and some fanbases wait for decades to even sniff it. It may not be audacity but it it is entitlement.

This fanbase has had nearly two decades of sustained excellence and four years into a transitional period we have posters losing their minds because now they suddenly know more about how to run an NFL team than Bill Belichick.

If that isn't entitlement - and its completely understandable how we got here - I don't know what is. We deserve this!

Very much agree with this. In Bill I trust - then, now, and going forward.

 

[FL4WL3SS]

It’s sports. You guys are acting like it’s something critically important. Who gives a fuck if people are spoiled? How does it matter?

At least people care. I’m old enough to remember when almost no one gave a shit about the Patriots at all. Maybe you’ll be happy when we’re back to that point? Then we’ll just have a small group of “true fans”. And we’ll be noble and just. Huzzah.

Honestly, I see you guys railing in game threads every week about us bad fans and I think you really enjoy wagging your finger at everyone. I think it brings you joy, whether you admit it or not.

Bad fans for tuning in every week, caring about the team, and spending hard earned money to support them.

 

[8slim]

Bad fans for tuning in every week, caring about the team, and spending hard earned money to support them.

I get that some folks are unreasonable. I’ve gotten into it with some guys here who have been all over BB. But the idea that there’s an approved level of critique we can put forth, and that two posters are the arbiters of that, is absurd.

 

[PayrodsFirstClutchHit]

The fact that this franchise has had success in the past does not excuse the current administration from putting a viable and entertaining team on the field. Criticizing those who are not satisfied with just enjoying the past and tolerating the present seems quite elitist.

We are still paying premium prices to attend these games. I shouldn’t have to be happy that 5+ years ago this team was successful and just suck it up and enjoy whatever mediocre product they decide to put on the field.

 

[E5 Yaz]

That people are continuing this discussion in light of tonight's events should surprise me ... but it doesn't

 

[8slim]

That people are continuing this discussion in light of tonight's events should surprise me ... but it doesn't

It took place before it, FYI.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

I get that some folks are unreasonable. I’ve gotten into it with some guys here who have been all over BB. But the idea that there’s an approved level of critique we can put forth, and that two posters are the arbiters of that, is absurd.

Don't know if that was a reference to me but my post was regarding the entitlement of the fanbase. IMO, there are plenty of entitled fans who don't understand how incredibly fortunate they have been. Beyond that people can and will critique all they want - even if a lot of it is the same people repeating the same criticisms over and over.

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

I want to see them get into the playoffs because they’re my favorite team and I always want them to do as well as possible.

Decidedly agreed.

 

[MuppetAsteriskTalk]

That people are continuing this discussion in light of tonight's events should surprise me ... but it doesn't

Well by all means let us know when the time is right to carry on.

 

[Saints Rest]

It’s not like he chose Jon Bon Jovi as OC.

Well, we will spend the last two weeks “living on a prayer.”

 

[Super Nomario]

Except that he doesn't. He was objectively terrible as a head coach in Detroit and he's objectively terrible as an offensive coordinator. So all we have is his ability as a defensive coach and it's too difficult to parse out his or anyone's contributions on a team led by Belichick, who is going to have an outsized contribution to that side of the ball.

It's too difficult for us to parse out on the outside, but Belichick you would imagine has a pretty good understanding of what Patricia brought as a defensive coach.

One of the hallmarks of Belichick's legacy is quickly jettisoning people who don't "do their job." He didn't this year, and he should be gone. I don't see BB moving him back to the defensive side of the ball with his son and Mayo both in position to advance, and I don't see him accepting the embarrassment of a demotion in responsibilities, even though he doesn't have a real title to begin with. Keeping him in the organization next year sends the message that there are considerations other than performance when it comes to staying employed with the Pats, and that goes against everything BB has stood for.

Sometimes Belichick makes the determination that the job he's asked the person to do isn't the right job, isn't the job he's capable of. Patrick Chung's role on his return to NE is one example. I could certainly see Belichick deciding that Patricia is a better fit for (and provides value in) the more consultant-type role he played in 2021.

 

[Jimbodandy]

I get that some folks are unreasonable. I’ve gotten into it with some guys here who have been all over BB. But the idea that there’s an approved level of critique we can put forth, and that two posters are the arbiters of that, is absurd.

This is correct.

As one of the devout IBWT guys, he gets a long leash with me. I take issue with idea that he doesn't care, or did something that hurt the team just to prove a point, or just isn't seeing what's right in front of his face. When folks wonder how Bill can "be so stupid", I laugh. That said, sometimes Bill zigs when the rest of the league is zagging. And when he does that, he invites criticism and often deserves it. Giving the ball to Manning in overtime so you can take the wind instead is a courageous move, but you're going to get smacked publicly if that guy jams it down your throat. You have to take the bad with the good. Sometimes his shit doesn't work. Having two uncredentialed offensive minds running his offense worked like shit this year. He deserves criticism for it, much like he'd deserve accolades if this year's team scored like the peak Warner Rams. He rolled the dice, and it fell off the table. The offense is ghastly, and he has himself to blame for that. And we, him.

 

[8slim]

Don't know if that was a reference to me but my post was regarding the entitlement of the fanbase. IMO, there are plenty of entitled fans who don't understand how incredibly fortunate they have been. Beyond that people can and will critique all they want - even if a lot of it is the same people repeating the same criticisms over and over.

Given what transpired last night after my post I'll let this go. But yes, I was referencing you and your post I quoted that people are acting as if "they are owed a functional offense". If your argument is that we have no right to expect a "functional offense" then I don't really understand what we're doing here. We had one last season. We brought back nearly every piece from that functional offense, save the staff. You said "some fanbases wait for decades to even sniff it. It may not be audacity but it it is entitlement." That's kinda silly. What franchise has gone "decades" without a functional offense?

Calling for BB to be fired is absurd, but discussing our utterly dysfunctional offense is not "entitlement".

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

The Patriots won the game in question and are in the mix for the playoffs when most here would agree that they are a middling team. Meanwhile, people are complaining in a game ball thread. We have threads to critique each aspect of the team too.

If people are going to complain in a game ball thread after a win, they should expect some pushback. Its not unreasonable at all.

 

[Ralphwiggum]

Disagreeing with handing out a game ball to Mac Jones because he played a "meh" game instead of a horrible one is not complaining, it's disagreeing with the post, which is sort of the point of this message board.

The offense is borderline unwatchable for long stretches of the game. It is possible to (a) be fully rooting for the team to win games and to make the playoffs, (b) be fully cognizant and appreciative of the 20 year run the Pats had, and (c) be very unhappy with the current state of the offense. The defense is pretty good, if the offense could have managed to find a way to be mediocre this year the team would already be in the playoffs and would be playing for seeding right now instead of their playoff lives.

Expecting 12 wins a #1 seed and at least an AFC Title Game every year (which is more or less what we got for two decades) is entitlement. Wanting an offense that is not putrid to watch is not.

 

[BigJimEd]

We brought back nearly every piece from that functional offense, save the staff.

To be fair, the OL has been very different than last year. Plus Harris has been injured half the season.


Pats are now 17th in pts/gm which is helped by defensive scores. 20th in yds/play.

 

[rodderick]

To be fair, the OL has been very different than last year. Plus Harris has been injured half the season.


Pats are now 17th in pts/gm which is helped by defensive scores. 20th in yds/play.

The Patriots offense has the best average starting field position in the league and still somehow manages to rank 25th in points per drive (28th in yards per drive, 30th in plays per drive).

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Disagreeing with handing out a game ball to Mac Jones because he played a "meh" game instead of a horrible one is not complaining, it's disagreeing with the post, which is sort of the point of this message board.

The offense is borderline unwatchable for long stretches of the game. It is possible to (a) be fully rooting for the team to win games and to make the playoffs, (b) be fully cognizant and appreciative of the 20 year run the Pats had, and (c) be very unhappy with the current state of the offense. The defense is pretty good, if the offense could have managed to find a way to be mediocre this year the team would already be in the playoffs and would be playing for seeding right now instead of their playoff lives.

Expecting 12 wins a #1 seed and at least an AFC Title Game every year (which is more or less what we got for two decades) is entitlement. Wanting an offense that is not putrid to watch is not.

"Yeah, they won the game but not in the style we are accustomed to" may not be entitlement but it feels pretty damn close.

 

[8slim]

The Patriots won the game in question and are in the mix for the playoffs when most here would agree that they are a middling team. Meanwhile, people are complaining in a game ball thread. We have threads to critique each aspect of the team too.

If people are going to complain in a game ball thread after a win, they should expect some pushback. Its not unreasonable at all.

Push back on the merits of their complaints then. Hand-waving it away as "entitlement" really sucks, in my humble opinion. I grew up in Foxboro and watched a lot of bad football from cold metal bleachers at the old stadium. You won't find a less "entitled" Patriots fan than me, trust me.

 

[Ralphwiggum]

"Yeah, they won the game but not in the style we are accustomed to" may not be entitlement but it feels pretty damn close.

I disagree. But IMO "they won the game therefore nothing else matters and you can't critique the play on the field" is ridiculous and would make this place very boring. They barely beat a .500 team at home who played much of the game with their third-string rookie 7th round pick QB. I think there is room to acknowledge that winning the game was good, but that level of play, particularly on offense, isn't going to cut it against better teams.

 

[BigSoxFan]

I disagree. But IMO "they won the game therefore nothing else matters and you can't critique the play on the field" is ridiculous and would make this place very boring. They barely beat a .500 team at home who played much of the game with their third-string rookie 7th round pick QB. I think there is room to acknowledge that winning the game was good, but that level of play, particularly on offense, isn't going to cut it against better teams.

Agreed. It’s a sports message board. The prior success of the franchise is completely irrelevant when discussing this 2022 team. If a fan wants to critique the mediocre play on the field, go for it. If another fan wants to disagree with a conclusion made, have at it. Plenty of room for disagreement. That’s the whole point of all of this, I think.

 

[lexrageorge]

I disagree. But IMO "they won the game therefore nothing else matters and you can't critique the play on the field" is ridiculous and would make this place very boring. They barely beat a .500 team at home who played much of the game with their third-string rookie 7th round pick QB. I think there is room to acknowledge that winning the game was good, but that level of play, particularly on offense, isn't going to cut it against better teams.

+1. The Game Ball threads during The (Brady) Era often did dissect some of the areas where the team performed sub-optimally despite a win. Concerns would be raised sometimes about the running game or the defense or the quality of Brady's receivers or the health of the OL, and sometimes those concerns would turn out to be on point come playoff time.

And there will always be some disagreement on who deserves a Game Ball. Personally, I wouldn't say the Pats beat the Dolphins in spite of Mac Jones, but I wouldn't say they won because of him either. But awarding Mac a Game Ball would not nearly be out of line as awarding one to Palardy (who, to be fair, is a scrap heap pickup that was able to fit into the team's very tight salary cap).

 

[Jimbodandy]

I haven't looked at Palardy's numbers, but it seems that he consistenly gets like 37 yards with no hang time when we're punting from our own end and then blasts the ball through the end zone from midfield. Can't wait until we upgrade that spot.

Fake edit: apologies if he's member here.

 

[ManicCompression]

Kind of weird to me that the same posters who would cite things like point differential, DVOA, and other stats that give context for how a team gets to its record and whether it's sustainable (like this year's Viking's team) are saying that the only thing that matters is the win and there's nothing to take away from a team's performance outside of that one stat.

That's just so obviously untrue and is untrue in any sport and it ignores pretty much the whole reason SOSH exists. People aren't fixated on the offense for no reason, they're fixated because they're trying to predict future performance in this year and beyond. You can use data points to formulate your opinion on that and it can differ from mine, but it's inarguable that it's worthy of discussion since the offense has not made a clear statement that it's very good in the context of the 2022-2023 NFL season.

"They found a way to win the game" was cool when they were winning lots of games in lots of different ways; when you have to say that for every game, it's possibly not a great sign. Of course there's something negative to take away even from wins. What do you think Belichick was saying to his team during 14 win seasons? "No notes guys, take the week off."

 

[steveluck7]

Statement from the NFL:
Bengals vs Bills WILL NOT be resumed this week.

(heard on 98.5)
Edit:
Tweet from Schefter

 

[Bowser]

To clarify, I don't feel the slightest sense of entitlement, and I'm not shitting on Mac because I think he's a lost cause. I'm trying to figure out if he can be an above average NFL QB. My criticisms are largely for those posters who think the 2-3 impressive throws Mac makes each week tell us much of anything useful. Or who throw their peas on the floor when someone dares to opine that X or Y throw from Mac maybe wasn't quite as impressive as it looked.

IMO, the difference between a low-end starter/backup QB and a top 10-15 QB is consistency. So it's frustrating when posters point to, for example, the VERY GOOD throw Mac made to Meyers as if it's mic-drop evidence for an argument in his favor. I've tried to point out that each week backup-caliber QBs like Thompson, Stidham, Purdy et al make fantastic plays ... but only here and there. What's holding them back -- and what's holding Mac back -- is consistency.

A good read, a good throw here or there indicate Mac has NFL talent, which he does. But if he can't be an above average QB, then I'm not super interested.

 

[FL4WL3SS]

To clarify, I don't feel the slightest sense of entitlement, and I'm not shitting on Mac because I think he's a lost cause. I'm trying to figure out if he can be an above average NFL QB. My criticisms are largely for those posters who think the 2-3 impressive throws Mac makes each week tell us much of anything useful. Or who throw their peas on the floor when someone dares to opine that X or Y throw from Mac maybe wasn't quite as impressive as it looked.

IMO, the difference between a low-end starter/backup QB and a top 10-15 QB is consistency. So it's frustrating when posters point to, for example, the VERY GOOD throw Mac made to Meyers as if it's mic-drop evidence for an argument in his favor. I've tried to point out that each week backup-caliber QBs like Thompson, Stidham, Purdy et al make fantastic plays ... but only here and there. What's holding them back -- and what's holding Mac back -- is consistency.

A good read, a good throw here or there indicate Mac has NFL talent, which he does. But if he can't be an above average QB, then I'm not super interested.

This is actually really well put and something I haven't quite been able to put into words. Given Mac's physical limitations, I think it will be really hard for him to be consistent from game to game. Most defenses in the NFL are going to eat him up (as we've seen) without a perfect storm of good coaching, OL play, and skill receivers. I can't see throwing $20M at this guy long term.

I think the reason he looked good in the beginning of last season is because a) he had very structured coaching and playbook that fed into his limitations and b) defenses hadn't figured him out yet. It was clear on Sunday that defenses are just not scared to challenge him. He's gotten pretty good OL play the last few games, which is why he's looked somewhat serviceable, but still wildly inconsistent.

 

[Deathofthebambino]

To clarify, I don't feel the slightest sense of entitlement, and I'm not shitting on Mac because I think he's a lost cause. I'm trying to figure out if he can be an above average NFL QB. My criticisms are largely for those posters who think the 2-3 impressive throws Mac makes each week tell us much of anything useful. Or who throw their peas on the floor when someone dares to opine that X or Y throw from Mac maybe wasn't quite as impressive as it looked.

IMO, the difference between a low-end starter/backup QB and a top 10-15 QB is consistency. So it's frustrating when posters point to, for example, the VERY GOOD throw Mac made to Meyers as if it's mic-drop evidence for an argument in his favor. I've tried to point out that each week backup-caliber QBs like Thompson, Stidham, Purdy et al make fantastic plays ... but only here and there. What's holding them back -- and what's holding Mac back -- is consistency.

A good read, a good throw here or there indicate Mac has NFL talent, which he does. But if he can't be an above average QB, then I'm not super interested.

I'm just speculating, but when we have a group of posters that shit on EVERY SINGLE THROW Mac makes, good or bad, complete or incomplete, there needs to be some balance. No reference to the fact that half the time, nobody is open, no reference to the good throws that he has dropped by his receivers, no reference to the offensive line getting him buried, over and over again.

Every QB in the NFL throws incompletions, including Pat Mahomes and Josh Allen and Herbert. Every QB in the NFL makes bad throws. Every QB in the NFL makes throws where their receivers bail them out, or when the defense drops a pick.

And yet, I almost never see a post in the NFL Game thread of those same posters shitting on those same QB's for the same throws they shit on Mac about. So yeah, they're going to get some push back when Mac makes a good throw.

Edit: I've honestly considered going into the NFL Game thread during a national game, and parroting the Mac haters with every throw made in a specific game. That throw was late, that one was underthrown, his receiver bailed him, it was a jump ball, he should have gotten it out sooner and avoided the sack, that pick was awful = Mahomes/Allen/Burrow/Herbert suck ass and they aren't NFL QB's.

 

[Dogman]

I appreciate you not doing that.

And you are correct.

 

[BaseballJones]

I'm just speculating, but when we have a group of posters that shit on EVERY SINGLE THROW Mac makes, good or bad, complete or incomplete, there needs to be some balance. No reference to the fact that half the time, nobody is open, no reference to the good throws that he has dropped by his receivers, no reference to the offensive line getting him buried, over and over again.

Every QB in the NFL throws incompletions, including Pat Mahomes and Josh Allen and Herbert. Every QB in the NFL makes bad throws. Every QB in the NFL makes throws where their receivers bail them out, or when the defense drops a pick.

And yet, I almost never see a post in the NFL Game thread of those same posters shitting on those same QB's for the same throws they shit on Mac about. So yeah, they're going to get some push back when Mac makes a good throw.

Edit: I've honestly considered going into the NFL Game thread during a national game, and parroting the Mac haters with every throw made in a specific game. That throw was late, that one was underthrown, his receiver bailed him, it was a jump ball, he should have gotten it out sooner and avoided the sack, that pick was awful = Mahomes/Allen/Burrow/Herbert suck ass and they aren't NFL QB's.

Bingo.

I'm one of the guys who advocated for Mac to be the draft pick last year, so I personally am rooting for him very hard. I think he has a chance to be a good NFL QB. But I see the holes in his game and I have some real concerns. The biggest issue for me, though, is this:

Last year he had a good (not great, but good, especially for a rookie) statistical season and the team won 10 games. He showed promise. Then the team got another good receiver (two since I'm counting Thornton and Parker) and elevated Rhamondre to the starting RB slot (I like Damien Harris, but Rhamondre is better). There was no reason why Mac wouldn't be at least as good as last year.

But what changed was the offensive coaching, and one person in particular: Matt Patricia. No offensive experience, in charge of both play calling AND the offensive line. And what have been the two biggest, most glaring, problems this team has had this year? Bad, inefficient play calling and disastrous offensive line play. The two biggest issues are the responsibility of the same guy - Patricia.

So while Mac has absolutely looked bad on a lot of plays this year, and the offense has basically stunk, and I have concerns about Mac, to me the biggest issue is Patricia. Maybe he will improve. Maybe he won't have this role next year. Who knows. But in game threads and in analysis after the games, the amount of crap Mac gets is absolutely unreal.

He's a second year guy who had a very successful first season, and this season the offense has been a dumpster fire from the outset, and the only real difference between last year and this year has been Matt Patricia and his role. The offseason reports on Mac was that he was in much better shape, his arm looked better, he was putting in the work in the offseason, and in those early camps he looked sharp. But then the preseason came this summer and the offense looked like crap. Well yeah, Patricia was in charge. The OL even during the preseason looked terrible and got killed by not only the Pats' defensive line, but by other teams' DL in joint practices. It was awful then and it simply hasn't gotten much better all year long.

Bad OL play and bad offensive coaching is going to make most QBs - especially those who can't improvise like an Allen can - look pretty bad. And even at that, Mac has still completed 65.2% of his passes, has now thrown 11 td compared to 8 int, and has a passer rating of 85.8. The past 8 games his stats are:

171-264 (64.8%), 1,760 yds, 6.8 y/a, 8 td, 1 int, 92.4 rating

Not all-world, obviously, but you can win games with that kind of quarterbacking.

People were crapping on Mac even for the Vikings game, even though he completed 71% of his passes for 382 yards, 2 td, 0 int, and had a rating of 119.8. "The stats don't tell the story." I mean, yes that's true, but even when he plays well, there are ALWAYS things to crap on with him.

He is NOT a great NFL quarterback right now. Not even a good one. But he's not terrible and he's shown real signs of growth the past few weeks.

 

[Ralphwiggum]

Every QB in the NFL throws incompletions, including Pat Mahomes and Josh Allen and Herbert. Every QB in the NFL makes bad throws. Every QB in the NFL makes throws where their receivers bail them out, or when the defense drops a pick.

And yet, I almost never see a post in the NFL Game thread of those same posters shitting on those same QB's for the same throws they shit on Mac about. So yeah, they're going to get some push back when Mac makes a good throw.

I don't know if it is the same posters or different posters, but IMO a hallmark of the NFL Game Threads over the years is calling out the horrendous QB play you see all around the league each week. Nobody's going to take the time to call out every bad throw by a QB like what happens to Mac because (a) that game thread is a game thread for multiple games being played at the same time and people are often watching Redzone so not focusing on a single game or a single QB, and (b) Mac gets more heat (particularly in game threads) because most of us here are Pats fans, just like Josh's play calling used to get picked on in game threads but nobody spent much time in the NFL Game Thread picking on other offensive coordinators.

I think there is good conversation in these threads about Mac, with a lot of context around other reasons why his play this year has been shitty beyond just him not being an NFL caliber QB. But, like it or not he's the leader of an offense that has been downright horrible at times and very hard to watch. He's made some plays here and there, but I am with @Bowser that he's not been anywhere near as consistent as he needs to be to be even an average NFL QB, and it should be somewhat expected that in game threads he's going to catch heat if he's throwing it at guy's feet or over their heads (or to the other team).

 

[Cellar-Door]

Bingo.

I'm one of the guys who advocated for Mac to be the draft pick last year, so I personally am rooting for him very hard. I think he has a chance to be a good NFL QB. But I see the holes in his game and I have some real concerns. The biggest issue for me, though, is this:

Last year he had a good (not great, but good, especially for a rookie) statistical season and the team won 10 games. He showed promise. Then the team got another good receiver (two since I'm counting Thornton and Parker) and elevated Rhamondre to the starting RB slot (I like Damien Harris, but Rhamondre is better). There was no reason why Mac wouldn't be at least as good as last year.

But what changed was the offensive coaching, and one person in particular: Matt Patricia. No offensive experience, in charge of both play calling AND the offensive line. And what have been the two biggest, most glaring, problems this team has had this year? Bad, inefficient play calling and disastrous offensive line play. The two biggest issues are the responsibility of the same guy - Patricia.

So while Mac has absolutely looked bad on a lot of plays this year, and the offense has basically stunk, and I have concerns about Mac, to me the biggest issue is Patricia. Maybe he will improve. Maybe he won't have this role next year. Who knows. But in game threads and in analysis after the games, the amount of crap Mac gets is absolutely unreal.


.

I agree Patricia is a major issue, But outside of the game against a Jags team that had quit, Mac's end of season was rough, and showed indications of the league starting to figure out his limitations. McDaniels helped some because (despite what this board sometimes seemed to think) he's an elite offensive coordinator, but there were some real causes for concern, that continued into this year. I think Mac would be better with a top offensive coordinator, but I do think a lot of the issues with him against the blitz and certain coverages have little to do with the coaches. We should replace Patricia in the offseason, but I wouldn't expect some major jump in offensive production.

 

[BigSoxFan]

I don't know if it is the same posters or different posters, but IMO a hallmark of the NFL Game Threads over the years is calling out the horrendous QB play you see all around the league each week. Nobody's going to take the time to call out every bad throw by a QB like what happens to Mac because (a) that game thread is a game thread for multiple games being played at the same time and people are often watching Redzone so not focusing on a single game or a single QB, and (b) Mac gets more heat (particularly in game threads) because most of us here are Pats fans, just like Josh's play calling used to get picked on in game threads but nobody spent much time in the NFL Game Thread picking on other offensive coordinators.

I think there is good conversation in these threads about Mac, with a lot of context around other reasons why his play this year has been shitty beyond just him not being an NFL caliber QB. But, like it or not he's the leader of an offense that has been downright horrible at times and very hard to watch. He's made some plays here and there, but I am with @Bowser that he's not been anywhere near as consistent as he needs to be to be even an average NFL QB, and it should be somewhat expected that in game threads he's going to catch heat if he's throwing it at guy's feet or over their heads (or to the other team).

I don’t even know why comparing Pats game thread reactions to NFL game thread reactions is even relevant. Most everyone here is a Pats fan. We’re going to care about everything a Pats player does far more than some random Saints game. The only time people generally get emotional is when it’s “their” guy, “their” fantasy player, or “their” bet. There have been plenty of over-the-top reactions but who really cares? A lot of the criticisms of Mac are legitimate. But if one feels that they aren’t, we should just state so and the reason why. Some plays are really hard to diagnose so sometimes these snap reactions just aren’t right. But that doesn’t mean that they all aren’t.

End of the day, Mac just needs to play better because he’s tearing apart this board and might be ending humanity as we know it.

 

[8slim]

End of the day, Mac just needs to play better because he’s tearing apart this board and might be ending humanity as we know it.

Why do you feel like you're owed a continued existence of humanity? We've had a run of thousands of years, you're so entitled.

 

[BaseballJones]

Mac's last 8 games of 2021: 67.0%, 7.5 y/a, 12 td, 6 int, 96.1 rating. Pretty darned good.

Mac's last 6 games of 2021: 62.2%, 7.3 y/a, 8 td, 5 int, 87.9 rating. Worse, but still not terrible.

Mac's last 4 games of 2021: 60.0%, 6.8 y/a, 6 td, 5 int, 79.7 rating. Worse still, and in the bad range.

BUT...in those last 4 games were the great game against Jax (73.3%), 227 yds, 3 td, 0 int, but ALSO the one godawful game vs Buffalo, when the Bills didn't punt and just steamrolled the Pats. 43.8%, 145 yds, 0 td, 2 int. The other two games he was 46-75 (61.3%), 560 yds, 7.5 y/a, 3 td, 3 int. Not great, but also not terrible.

So I'd say as a counter to the claim that he was bad outside of the one great game against Jax, that he was actually pretty decent outside of the one godawful game against the Bills on a day when the entire team sucked so badly it was almost beyond comprehension. (only to be one-upped in terribleness by the playoff game against them)

 

[BigSoxFan]

Why do you feel like you're owed a continued existence of humanity? We've had a run of thousands of years, you're so entitled.

I bought my 8 year-old son a Mac Jones jersey. I now look like a jackass due to his poor play. He OWES me!

 

[8slim]

I bought my 8 year-old son a Mac Jones jersey. I now look like a jackass due to his poor play. He OWES me!

Dude, my son had me buy him a HUNTER HENRY jersey last year. I want a 5% stake in the team. And a year supply of ice cream.

 

[E5 Yaz]

I bought my 8 year-old son a Mac Jones jersey. I now look like a jackass due to his poor play. He OWES me!

What constitutes "poor play" by an 8-year-old?

 

[BigSoxFan]

What constitutes "poor play" by an 8-year-old?

I mean, he got mocked by 8-9 year-old Jets fans at school a few weeks ago (I live in NJ) after the Raiders game.

Jets fans.

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

I appreciate you not doing that.

And you are correct.

I agree and like what some posters have mentioned already, there are other threads that the topics here can move over to.

And with that, Happy New Year to All!