The Andre Johnson Watch: Will Skip Minicamp

[Phragle]

 
 
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/transactions/trades
This is just for the 2014 calendar year, 10 trades have been made so far for players.  Only one of the 10 trades involved players switching teams (TJ Yates for Akeen Dent).  All the other trades were players for draft picks
 
I know this is a SSS but NFL trades that involve players swapping teams seem incredibly rare events.  If this gets done, it gets done for draft picks.  Maybe Mallet's fit in Houston is the perfect storm for a player for player swap, but there is no chance of a package of players going each way.

 
I don't agree. I know it's rare historically, but each situation is unique. In this situation a swap of Garoppolo and Savage basically is a swap of draft picks. The trade value chart difference between them is worth a mid third round pick (76 overall). The Pats have a roster crunch at WR now. I figure that Gallon gets cut and then they still have six WRs and Slater. If they traded for Johnson they'd have to make even more room and cut one of those six ,or throw them in the trade. I think Houston would value a WR coming back, especially one that already knows the playbook. They're pretty weak at WR without Johnson.
 
And if it's Mallett instead of Garoppolo I don't think the Pats want to have just Garoppolo behind Brady. So they now have a need at QB. 

 

[soxfan121]

I actually think the Pats have an advantage because they have a surplus of WRs that already know BO'B's offense.

 
Edelman and ... ?
 
And no, I don't think knowing McDaniels' offense is the "same thing". This is a very different offense than the one run in BO'B's last season.

 

[Phragle]

 
Edelman and ... ?
 
And no, I don't think knowing McDaniels' offense is the "same thing". This is a very different offense than the one run in BO'B's last season.

 
No it isn't.
 
 
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Is this account reputable? I have never heard of it.
 
BostonsTitleTownTalk ‏@TitleTownTalkSB  3h
According to Ian Rapoport, the Patriots R among several teams in on Andre Johnson. Ravens, Browns, Panthers, Jets, Seahawks & Chiefs as well

 

[RedOctober3829]

No it isn't.
 
 
-----
 
 
Is this account reputable? I have never heard of it.
 
BostonsTitleTownTalk ‏@TitleTownTalkSB[/size]  3h
According to Ian Rapoport, the Patriots R among several teams in on Andre Johnson. Ravens, Browns, Panthers, Jets, Seahawks & Chiefs as well

No that's not accurate. NFL Network posted an article naming teams that may have interest. Not saying the Patriots were in on him or pursuing him.

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

What's holding up extending McC? Frees up cap space, locks up a top FS in the league, provide steady leadership, blah blah. 
 
Make sense to do it now for a lot of reasons, including a run at Johnson.

 

[soxfan121]

What's holding up extending McC? Frees up cap space, locks up a top FS in the league, provide steady leadership, blah blah. 
 
Make sense to do it now for a lot of reasons, including a run at Johnson.

 
Jason & Tennessee is the only thing I can think of, as the market for safeties has been set and the numbers should be easy.

 

[Corsi]

RapSheet says Johnson would restructure for new team to get under cap, but would not take a pay cut.

https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/487389284538658816

https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/487389284538658816

link to tweet

 

[jsinger121]

That rules out New England

 

[RedOctober3829]

That rules out New England

Why?? You trade for him and restructure him for 2014.  After '14, you extend him and spread out the money so the cap hits aren't as bad.  It's not really that hard.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Get this done. If Andre Johnson comes to the Patriots this puts them over Denver in the AFC.

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

What does the cap look like next year? I know DMC needs an extension, after that what are we looking at? Is it reasonable to think they could rework AJ and also extend Revis without pulling shenannegians that will get them in trouble later?

 
Always rely on Miguel for the definitive take on AJ's cap implications: http://www.patsfans.com/salary-cap/?p=585?sc=t
 

To sum up, while it is possible for the Patriots to trade up for Andre Johnson, I just do not see the Patriots doing it because of how it will affect both the 2014 and 2015 cap.

 
Here's one missing part of Miguel's equation. Herb's $7.5 million signing bonus proration is for 2014, getting Pats off the hook in 2015 & beyond. Restructuring AJ's contract to be backloaded could make his contract much less difficult to manage.

In other words...
 

That rules out New England

Not necessarily.

 

[quint]

Get this done. If Andre Johnson comes to the Patriots this puts them over Denver in the AFC.

How are they currently below them?

 

[E5 Yaz]

How are they currently below them?

 
The Patriots haven't won a game yet, while the Broncos have yet to lose.

 

[quint]

 
The Patriots haven't won a game yet, while the Broncos have yet to lose.

GET IT DONE BILL

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

I love the Around the League podcast (comprising of NFL.com writers) but a lot of their name-driven video pieces are pretty useless. 
 
Having said that, Rapsh*t's "report" mentions Patriots, Browns, or Raiders as a possible destination IF Johnson was on the block:
 
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/0ap2000000364414/Will-Manning-be-ranked-No-1-next-season

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

How are they currently below them?

I'd put them on the same tier but giving Denver the respect of winning the AFC last year. Andre Johnson puts them as the undisputed favorite. Brady needs that target especially with Gronk and his health being a huge question mark

 

[Corsi]

John McClain of the Houston Chronicle says to expect Andre with the Texans next season, but RapSheet seems to disagree:
 
 

Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet  10m
If #Texans don’t budge, would be surprised RT @McClain_on_NFL: Count on Johnson to be with Texans when dust settles http://www.houstonchronicle.com/sports/texans/article/Count-on-Johnson-to-be-with-Texans-when-the-dust-5614180.php?cmpid=twitter-premium&t=9d596f5f90cc308649 …
 

 

[Corsi]

 

John McClain ‏@McClain_on_NFL  3m
Bill O'Brien wants Texans to be as good as they can be. They wouldn't be without Andre Johnson. He's their best offensive player.
John McClain ‏@McClain_on_NFL  6m
By the way, Bob McNair wants Andre Johnson to finish his career as a Texan. So he will. No trade. No cut. Report of retire.

 

[DJnVa]

Bob McNair loves Johnson so much that he'd make him retire?
 
If the guy has been a good soldier, such a hard line seems rather cold.

 

[Hendu for Kutch]

Ya, those two tweets are contradictory.  They want Houston to be as good as possible and they love AJ.  Let's look at the scenarios:
 
For Texans:
1. Retain --> Best  --> Have All-Pro WR next season
2. Trade  --> In between --> Have some assets as result of trade
3. Retire --> Worst  --> Have nothing
 
For AJ:
 
1. Trade --> Best  --> Gets what he wants
2. Retain/Retire --> Worst --> Doesn't get what he wants
 
So, we want to win more than anything and we love AJ, so we are perfectly comfortable doing what harms both of those things the most.  What he should say is "We're more than willing to bluff and hope he doesn't call it."

 

[Phragle]

https://twitter.com/LanceZierlein/status/487604341574868992

 

[RedOctober3829]

https://twitter.com/LanceZierlein/status/487604341574868992

Wow, a 5th rd pick?  If so, get it done already.  Johnson, Dobson, and LaFell on the outside with Amendola, Edelman, and Gronk in the middle is a heck of a depth chart.  Multiple looks and weapons at all 3 levels.

 

[bsj]

Wouldn't do a 2 but Def 4 and prob 3

 

[RedOctober3829]

Wouldn't do a 2 but Def 4 and prob 3

Why wouldn't you do a 2 for Johnson?

 

[jsinger121]

Why wouldn't you do a 2 for Johnson?

Because he is 32 years old and refuses to take a pay cut.

 

[RedOctober3829]

Because he is 32 years old and refuses to take a pay cut.

Restructure 2014 and then extend him after the season.

 

[Devizier]

Just for reference: Randy Moss was 33 years old when the Patriots traded him.

 

[Adrian's Dome]

One of these days, I'd love to see a player who's sitting out because they're demanding to play for a winner actually take a significant pay cut to make it happen. I wonder if he's sitting at home thinking to himself, "you know, I'm a WR on the wrong side of 30, maybe it's wrong of me to demand the big bucks and hamstring my team's cap situation when all I really want is a chance at a ring for once?"
 
Doubtful.
 
Which is more valuable to you as the player, your paycheck or being a significant piece to a legit contender? As they say, you can't have your cake and eat it, too. Taking the cut would do nothing but help make your wishes happen...and I'm not saying that because I feel he should take a cut to make himself a Patriot, I'd be impressed if he did it to get on the Seahawks, Niners, or any other contender that could use another weapon for a season or two.
 
Refusing to honor your contract while at the same time demanding top-tier pay and complaining about wanting to play for a contender comes off as whiny and lacking perspective, and I don't fault the Texans for taking a hard line with him.

 

[dano7594]

If they gave up a #2 for him, when would they be able to draft a backup QB for 2018?

 

[Erik Hanson's Hook]

And Jerry Rice caught 108 balls for 1254 yards at age 34.

What's your point?

 
What's yours?
 
That we shouldn't worry about the possible decline of a 32 year-old WR...because of Jerry Rice?
 
I'm not saying you don't kick the tires on this, but Johnson's have a lot of NFL tread on them.

 

[jsinger121]

Just for reference: Randy Moss was 33 years old when the Patriots traded him.

Yes and he was traded for a 4th rounder and he took a heavy paycut.

 

[Eck'sSneakyCheese]

One of these days, I'd love to see a player who's sitting out because they're demanding to play for a winner actually take a significant pay cut to make it happen. I wonder if he's sitting at home thinking to himself, "you know, I'm a WR on the wrong side of 30, maybe it's wrong of me to demand the big bucks and hamstring my team's cap situation when all I really want is a chance at a ring for once?"

I hope you did this on purpose. Its perfect wording.

 

[Devizier]

And Jerry Rice caught 108 balls for 1254 yards at age 34.

What's your point?

 
That there's a good chance that any extension is just going to be dead cap money for a couple of seasons?
 
Maybe I should have spelled it out? I didn't think the inference was particularly vague.

 

[IdiotKicker]

I would give up a 3 in a heartbeat.  I'd probably do a 2 as well, but might ask for a 6 or 7 back as well.  With the improvements made on defense, this is a guy who can put you over the top for the next year or two without causing major long-term issues.  Yes, the cap issues for the next year or so will be tight.  The only guys you really have up at the end of this year that you may want back are Gostkowski and McCourty, and with some of the other contracts coming off the books, I think you'll be able to make it work.  You don't really have many needs next year anyways, so it's not like you're going to be out looking for guys to sign if you bring those guys back.

 

[Toe Nash]

And Jerry Rice caught 108 balls for 1254 yards at age 34.

What's your point?

Jerry Rice (and Tim Brown, to a lesser extent) are absolutely outliers for longevity. Basically every other WR dropped off cliffs around age 33-35.
 
Here's a list of players with 80 catches at age 32 or older. Expecting AJ to perform for more than this year is pretty unlikely, so I would be pretty wary.

 

[RedOctober3829]

A proven, quality outside WR is the only real gaping hole on this team. If I were BB, I'd try all I could to get him in the fold. We don't know how good Dobson is going to be and what other option behind him for the outside is there if he's injured/ineffective?

That being said if Johnson is unwilling to take a pay cut to get traded, how bad does he even want to leave?

 

[Stitch01]

Id be less focused on whether to trade a future 2nd or 4th and more focused on whether they could structure the contract so that there wasn't a ton of dead money if they cut bait in future years.  I think using a 2nd to get 2013 Andre Johnson on the team for a year is an acceptable win now/long-term team build tradeoff for this years Patriots team if they didn't have to commit big money for multiple years. The roster is actually crowded with young players at WR and don't want to crowd out cheaper young talent, but they could obviously work around that (Id eat the dead money to upgrade from LaFell to Andre Johnson and keep Thompkins, Boyce, and Dobson around if they all showed improvement in camp).
 
So it comes down to 1) whether the Texans would move Johnson for a 2nd and 2) whether the Pats could work out something so they aren't eating dead money in future years if Johnson starts to feel his age.  I think both of those are really questionable based on the information that's out there.

 

[E5 Yaz]

I wonder where Johnson ultimately will rank among players talked about coming to one of our pro teams who never actually plays here?
 
Behind Stanton? Ahead of LFitz?
 
I'll stick with what I brought up before. If Johnson is traded, it won't be to the Pats. My guess would be something like St. Louis or Tampa Bay

 

[mt8thsw9th]

 
What's yours?
 
That we shouldn't worry about the possible decline of a 32 year-old WR...because of Jerry Rice?
 
I'm not saying you don't kick the tires on this, but Johnson's have a lot of NFL tread on them.

Isn't having a lot of tread a good thing?

 

[E5 Yaz]

Isn't having a lot of tread a good thing?

 
He could care less

 

[DJnVa]

 
I'll stick with what I brought up before. If Johnson is traded, it won't be to the Pats. My guess would be something like St. Louis or Tampa Bay

 
How does going to Tampa Bay get him closer to a Super Bowl?

 

[RedOctober3829]

 
How does going to Tampa Bay get him closer to a Super Bowl?

He'll be farther away.  Tampa is a lot farther away from Glendale than Houston is.  Would be a much further drive to get there to watch it.

 

[Phragle]

Wow, a 5th rd pick?  If so, get it done already.  Johnson, Dobson, and LaFell on the outside with Amendola, Edelman, and Gronk in the middle is a heck of a depth chart.  Multiple looks and weapons at all 3 levels.

 
I can't see a 5th getting it done. At least a 3rd I think.
 

Id be less focused on whether to trade a future 2nd or 4th and more focused on whether they could structure the contract so that there wasn't a ton of dead money if they cut bait in future years.  I think using a 2nd to get 2013 Andre Johnson on the team for a year is an acceptable win now/long-term team build tradeoff for this years Patriots team if they didn't have to commit big money for multiple years. The roster is actually crowded with young players at WR and don't want to crowd out cheaper young talent, but they could obviously work around that (Id eat the dead money to upgrade from LaFell to Andre Johnson and keep Thompkins, Boyce, and Dobson around if they all showed improvement in camp).
 
So it comes down to 1) whether the Texans would move Johnson for a 2nd and 2) whether the Pats could work out something so they aren't eating dead money in future years if Johnson starts to feel his age.  I think both of those are really questionable based on the information that's out there.

 
I don't think they'd have to restructure him at all. It's only 4.2 million they'd have to open up. It might be less. I'm not sure how his roster bonus works. If Amendola is in the deal that saves 2.9 by itself.
 

I wonder where Johnson ultimately will rank among players talked about coming to one of our pro teams who never actually plays here?
 
Behind Stanton? Ahead of LFitz?

 
Behind Fitz I think. Behind Fitz but tied with Kevin Love.

 

[PaulinMyrBch]

https://twitter.com/FrankTank96/status/488343572710977536

 

[snowmanny]

Don't tease me bro.

 

[dcmissle]

I wonder where Johnson ultimately will rank among players talked about coming to one of our pro teams who never actually plays here?
 
Behind Stanton? Ahead of LFitz?
 
I'll stick with what I brought up before. If Johnson is traded, it won't be to the Pats. My guess would be something like St. Louis or Tampa Bay

C'mon. Don't you know that BoB is tripping over himself to be McHale to BB's Danny Ainge?

Those are the optics. There's a very good case to be made that you part ways with even an excellent player if he really doesn't want to be there. There's an excellent case to be made that the price is likely to be a bit steeper for the Pats than anyone else.

They are not likely stealing him. A 5th would be stealing him.

 

[RedOctober3829]

https://twitter.com/FrankTank96/status/488343572710977536

Love ya Paul, but this Tweeter is a college student.  Likely not passing along any new news.

 

[Mystic Merlin]

I was just gonna ask who the fuck Frank Pimental is, and how he would know what Andre Johnson thinks going to school in Maine.

 

[E5 Yaz]

I was just gonna ask who the fuck Frank Pimental is, and how he would know what Andre Johnson thinks going to school in Maine.

 
Is everone named Frank eventually called FrankTank?

 

[RedOctober3829]

 
Is everone named Frank eventually called FrankTank?