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That'd be up the butt, Bob - Kraft Charged with Soliciting.

Discussion in 'Blinded by the Lombardis: Patriots Forum' started by Hoya81, Feb 22, 2019.

  1. LoweTek

    LoweTek Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    1,441
    I think you'd be surprised by how small and tight knit of a community many of these women are. In her case all the therapists in her organization have their own apartments and cars. They come and go freely, take vacations, days off, etc. She tells stories of going out in groups with other therapists from other Asian Spas from around the state to quite high end restaurants. The details she provides are more than accurate, e.g. restaurant names, descriptions, locations, menus, etc..

    There's no reason to disbelieve her. She's a successful local business person in business for many years.

    Don't get me wrong. I know it happens. All I am saying is I have first hand credible information claiming it's very rare and mostly press, politician and law enforcement bluster and hyperbole they break out when they want to rile people up and justify their activities.

    I mean, do people really care about two (or more I guess) consenting adults hooking up of their own free will? Who cares if a little money is involved. It happens all the time. Bigger fish, etc. I don't think I'm in the minority.

    I acknowledge there are bases for moral objection or even misogyny and I respect the reasoning there. I just don't believe most people want law enforcement and prosecution resources going toward things with no victim the majority of the time.

    BTW, they have now charged one person with trafficking at this point. She had nothing to do with Kraft's spa and owned totally separate operations.The evidence cited is she was seen driving women to and from her spa location loading and unloading suitcases. Sounds like weak evidence but they claim to have one therapist in protective custody who is cooperating. They say they could not locate most of the women seen coming and going or the women are not claiming they were there against their will. So supposedly one witness. I'm very curious to see what happens with the charge. Proving it is going to be very difficult if that's all they have. Explaining suitcases and discrediting one witness with a prosecution avoidance motive should not be difficult defense attorney work.

    Maybe there's more evidence than they have disclosed. I guess we'll see.
     
  2. BaseballJones

    BaseballJones goalpost mover SoSH Member

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    4,950
    There was no precedent for either the Spygate or Deflategate penalties either, but they happened. Still, I hope you’re right that the NFL distinguishes on-field, or football-related infractions (or perceived infractions), from off-field stuff.
     
  3. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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    20,895
    Fuck it, I hope the NFL takes another first rounder away.
     
  4. lexrageorge

    lexrageorge Member SoSH Member

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    There are previous statements (and actions) from Goodell that indicate loss of draft picks is reserved for penalties related to teams gaining competitive advantages by violating NFL rules.

    Granted, Goodell could technically do anything he wants. But this incident had nothing to do with the team at large, so while Kraft will likely be punished, it's unlikely any punishment will carry over to the team at large.

    Also, with regards to the larger point on trafficking, it appears Sports Illustrated is calling BS on the entire episode and the actions of the police and FBI; apparently, there has been zero evidence of trafficking uncovered so far.
     
  5. ifmanis5

    ifmanis5 Member SoSH Member

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    33,764
  6. SemperFidelisSox

    SemperFidelisSox suzyn SoSH Member

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    17,180
    The non guilty plea and the hiring of Jack Goldberger suggests Kraft really is going to fight this.
     
  7. bankshot1

    bankshot1 Member SoSH Member

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    15,634
    Whats his play: entrapment, a Clintonian "I did not have sex with that woman" or I paid for and received a massage and got comped a BJ? I don't get it.
     
  8. uncannymanny

    uncannymanny Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    6,006
    “I dropped my keys between my legs and they were simply searching for them. They found them so I left a very generous tip.”
     
  9. joe dokes

    joe dokes Member SoSH Member

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    I doubt it means that. No one pleads guilty at the inception of charges without knowing what they'll get in return for the plea. Otherwise it's not really a plea bargain. I don't know if Burck and Goldberger are good (as opposed to just famous), but assuming they are, if I had a billion dollars I'd hire the best lawyers out there even if there was already a 99% chance I'd get the absolute minimum punishment, just to push it to 99.9%

    You can always change your plea from not guilty to guilty.
     
  10. reggiecleveland

    reggiecleveland sublime Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    20,278
    https://nypost.com/2019/02/28/how-p...utm_source=NYPTwitter&utm_campaign=SocialFlow


    How Patriots owner Robert Kraft could get off in prostitution case

     
  11. BusRaker

    BusRaker lurker

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    454
  12. steveluck7

    steveluck7 Member SoSH Member

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    2,826
    for the 1,000th time in this thread... Phrasing
     
  13. Rovin Romine

    Rovin Romine Johnny Rico Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    9,167
    Ting. He may not have even been offered a plea deal yet. But he was going to be arraigned one way or the other, so NG.

    I don't know how the county court works in WPB, but a couple blocks south, it would be a rare attorney who counseled an out of custody client take a plea at arraignment. Normally you don't get discovery until that point, including potentially exculpatory facts. And even if the client is inclined to plea without seeing the discovery, you'd want the client to have a couple weeks to think about it, so later they don't feel pressured into a decision. In-custody is a different kettle of fish.

    Has anyone ever seen a kettle of fish? And if so, are they actually individually distinctive?
     
  14. LoweTek

    LoweTek Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    1,441
    Yes, RR.The fish in the kettle are usually cut up and they are distinctive...
     
  15. PedroKsBambino

    PedroKsBambino Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Those look to be some serious lawyers---but not sure whether that means anything or not. if you're Kraft, why wouldn't you spend a little money on the defense now?

    Still seems like prosecutor is likely to offer enough of a deal that he'd be a little nuts to fight it.
     
  16. DennyDoyle'sBoil

    DennyDoyle'sBoil Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill SoSH Member

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    I don't know the facts of the case, but, it is kind of interesting that they were worried that there were human trafficking victims in the facilities but took the time to set up these elaborate sneak and peek cameras instead of rescuing the women.

    Or maybe it's not interesting but just a good argument for a defense lawyer to try to make, I guess. I can't really claim to be an expert on the detection and prevention of human trafficking.
     
  17. jose melendez

    jose melendez Earl of Acie Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    It may be that he didn't get a handy from a trafficking victim, that's good I guess. But dear God please no one pretend that he didn't pay for sex or break the law. Watching barstool already try to frame this as a good man done wrong makes me ill.
     
  18. snowmanny

    snowmanny Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    10,079
    Are you saying paying for sex or breaking the law means you’re not a good man?
     
  19. Marciano490

    Marciano490 Urological Expert SoSH Member

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    Eh, paying for sex is like jaywalking if there’s no coercion.
     
  20. DennyDoyle'sBoil

    DennyDoyle'sBoil Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill SoSH Member

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    25,837
    I think the tough question in this context is what is coercion? It may be a bit more like a spectrum than it is a binary thing.
     
  21. snowmanny

    snowmanny Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    10,079
    You realize we live in a patriarchy?

    /my daughter every fifteen minutes.
    /she’s not wrong
     
  22. Marciano490

    Marciano490 Urological Expert SoSH Member

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    Yeah, this is one of those tough things though. Isn’t it patriarchal to tell women they can’t have sex for money though, too?

    Or was that the point?
     
  23. edoug

    edoug Member SoSH Member

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    1,941
    If your wife/girlfriend/mate is a crossing guard.
     
  24. snowmanny

    snowmanny Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    10,079
    The point is that the power structure of society makes it hard to tell if you are ever not paying for sex. Ed: or more to the point if there is ever not some coercion involved.

    Unless you’re Tom Brady, I guess.
     
  25. Marciano490

    Marciano490 Urological Expert SoSH Member

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    34,446
    Oh yeah that.

    I mean, I got a million stories about weirdness and sex and money, but I’ll spare y’all.
     
  26. Marciano490

    Marciano490 Urological Expert SoSH Member

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    34,446
    [​IMG]

    Also, in the Westin on 42nd. Don’t ask why I’m in so many hotels in nyc.
     
  27. soxhop411

    soxhop411 Member SoSH Member

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    33,980

    https://bleacherreport.com/articles...fl-may-look-to-set-example-in-punishing-kraft
     
  28. Papelbon's Poutine

    Papelbon's Poutine Homeland Security SoSH Member

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    17,602
    You’re misunderstanding my point and my point of view.

    I’m not implying that ‘all’ or even ‘most’ or even ‘many’ don’t fall into the category. Nor am I even implying that even if ‘services’ are offered its = sex trafficking. I’ve been to many a place, be it strip club or shady strip mall/non chain massage place, like most in a places like Myrtle Beach and been offered services. I’m not casting morality on them or your friend or suggesting she’s trafficking. My simple point is, no matter how much you respect her I don’t exactly expect her to come out and admit (or offer info on) the illegal activities going on. That’s my simple and only point. Apologies if I offended you, but I think you’re being naive, even if I’m being cynical; it’s all probably somewhere in the middle. I’m not denying that most places are legit; but I think a lot more of these types exist than you seem to think. And no, sorry, because she gives vacation and they go out to dinner really means nothing to me.
     
  29. Mystic Merlin

    Mystic Merlin Member SoSH Member

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    29,839
    Maybe they’ll order a summary execution!
     
  30. koufax32

    koufax32 He'll cry if he wants to... SoSH Member

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    Quite the conundrum for these guys. Do they “make an example” of Kraft (iow, stick it to him out of jealousy) or do they take it easy since every last one of them probably do similar things dozens of times a year and the next time it could be them?

    My guess is the dumb answer that involves potentially shouting themselves in the foot just to spite a rival.
     
  31. Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt

    Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt lurker

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    2,254
    This idea that the NFL has ever "gone easy on" Kraft or the Patriots is beyond infuriating.

    Edit finger slippage
     
  32. Marciano490

    Marciano490 Urological Expert SoSH Member

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    34,446

    Hot.
     
  33. Couperin47

    Couperin47 Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    13,415
    When the vids get leaked you'll see they tiny, grey and very wrinkled
     
  34. edoug

    edoug Member SoSH Member

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    1,941
    It's Where's Waldo?, the video version.
     
  35. Ale Xander

    Ale Xander Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    21,061
    https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/robert-kraft-prostitution-case-non-231723272.html
     
  36. DennyDoyle'sBoil

    DennyDoyle'sBoil Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill SoSH Member

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    25,837
    Keep trying. I’m sure eventually you will find a hotel where they allow handjobs.
     
  37. nighthob

    nighthob Member SoSH Member

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    7,311
    We really don't need to hear you share your happy ending secrets here...
     
  38. dcmissle

    dcmissle Deflatigator Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    27,109
    That is Jerry Thornton, and he is borderline insane. Again, there are two people on this planet who have mentioned a possible loss of draft picks flowing from this incident. One is Bart Scott, the other Thornton who has a PhD in victimology.

    Kraft has reasons for playing this out in an effort to prove that the two women who provided a happy ending were not trafficked. One is NFL discipline, the other a gold jacket. If his servicers were trafficked, he gets into Canton only like the rest of us. He buys a ticket. If not, then there is a good chance this gets chalked up to human foible and he makes it, hopefully while he is alive.

    But he did pay for sex, he did break the law, and perhaps most sadly, he thoroughly humiliated himself, much closer to the end of his run than the beginning.
     
  39. nighthob

    nighthob Member SoSH Member

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    7,311
    Well, since my baby left me,
    I found a new place to dwell.
    It's down at the end of a stripmall
    at Handjob Hotel.

    Handjobs so quick baby,
    Handjobs so quick,
    Handjobs so quick I could cry.

    And although it's always sticky,
    You still can find you a room.
    Where broken hearted lovers
    Get stroked until they boom.

    Handjobs so quick baby,
    Handjobs so quick,
    Handjobs so quick I could cry.

    Well, the patrons love keeps flowin',
    And the masseuses are all in black.
    Well they been so long on handjob street
    They always give a hand in back.

    Handjobs so quick baby,
    Handjobs so quick,
    Handjobs so quick I could cry.

    Hey now, if your baby leaves you,
    And you got no tales to tell.
    Just take a walk down lonely street
    to Handjob Hotel
     
  40. Marciano490

    Marciano490 Urological Expert SoSH Member

    Messages:
    34,446
    Shit dude, I keep racking up these AmEx rewards I’ll be able to get an incall with my points.
     
  41. DennyDoyle'sBoil

    DennyDoyle'sBoil Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill SoSH Member

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    25,837
    This was my favorite line.
     
  42. djbayko

    djbayko Member SoSH Member

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    8,327
    I think you're right that this fact is important to Kraft from a PR standpoint, but that doesn't really get decided in his legal case, does it? I'm not really sure how it's even relevant to his guilt or innocence.
     
  43. Marciano490

    Marciano490 Urological Expert SoSH Member

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    34,446
    Ok, so say like I knew a masseuse and we dated and hooked up outside of work, but I’d still get massages when I was in town, which I had to pay for through the company. Sometimes we’d hook up on the table. I feel like whether she was trafficked might be relevant if there was a solicitation charge against me.
     
  44. djbayko

    djbayko Member SoSH Member

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    8,327
    Yes, but her not being trafficked doesn't mean that it wasn't prostitution. He's charged with soliciting prostitution, not soliciting trafficked prostitution. If the prosecutor claims in court that she was trafficked, then proving she wasn't trafficked is a valid defense. If not, it's kind of weird to bring up, no?
     
  45. Marciano490

    Marciano490 Urological Expert SoSH Member

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    34,446
    If she wasn’t trafficked it implies a greater chance that he could’ve had a consensual, personal relationship outside of just John-prostitute that was played out in the parlor outside of her professional doings.

    It’s not the best argument, but like Scarface’s lawyer said, it’s kind hard raising reasonable doubt when you’re getting a handy on camera.

    [paraphrased]
     
  46. TheoShmeo

    TheoShmeo Skrub's sympathy case Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    12,699
    I’ve generally viewed this story as an opportunist’s dream. Kraft has indeed been taken down a peg or seven.

    But perhaps it will indirectly hurt the Pats more than I imagined.

    https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/...ng-patriots/Znf0ex9WtMLOorfUOM1fCN/story.html

    From the article:

    Easterby helped navigate the Patriots through significant highs and lows over six years — the Aaron Hernandez ordeal and Deflategate fiasco, plus four Super Bowl runs. Last season, Easterby’s foremost assignment was mentoring and keeping close tabs on troubled receiver Josh Gordon.

    Easterby’s departure comes at a time when the organization is reeling from team owner Robert Kraft facing charges in Florida for soliciting prostitution. Easterby felt his time with the team had run its course, and the Kraft situation does not sit well with him, according to league sources. Easterby retweeted a message from Saints tight end Ben Watson last Friday about the “entrenched evil” of human trafficking.

    PS:

    - I doubt the Pats are actually “reeling.”

    - The article suggests that many in the organization viewed Easterby as critical.

    - That said, he didn’t exactly earn an A plus with his Gordon assignment. Though perhaps no one could.
     
    #946 TheoShmeo, Mar 1, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2019
  47. lexrageorge

    lexrageorge Member SoSH Member

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    7,164
    It's been discussed in the other thread as well, but it's likely Easterby was looking to leave anyway. Not sure the reasons, but turnover among coaching assistants is nothing new. I think the Globe article is reading a lot into the single tweet.

    Also, with regards to Gordon, a character coach cannot watch over a single player 24/7 with foolproof surveillance.
     
  48. TheoShmeo

    TheoShmeo Skrub's sympathy case Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    12,699
    Wasn’t aware of another thread having this but no surprise.

    From where do you infer he was likely to leave anyway?
     
  49. steveluck7

    steveluck7 Member SoSH Member

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    Mike Reiss tweeted yesterday, can’t link it now (I will edit this post later to include the tweet) that said Easterby nearly left last off season

    edit: I can't find the tweet but i read it yesterday (must not have been Reiss) Breer is on T & R right now and said that Easterby was ready to go to Indy with McD last offseason though
     
    #949 steveluck7, Mar 1, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2019
  50. joe dokes

    joe dokes Member SoSH Member

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    12,534
    "I'll take, 'They Told Me They'd Kill My Family if I Didn't Add Exactly 16 Meaningless Words To My Story, Three of Which Must Be in Parentheses' for 200, Alex."

     

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