Getting that 8th playoff spot was going to be tough as it was. Not sure it can happen if Sullinger misses a lot of time (and I expect Danny will be "extra cautious" with him).
Sullinger out "for a while" with stress reaction
- Thread starter nattysez
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Getting that 8th playoff spot was going to be tough as it was. Not sure it can happen if Sullinger misses a lot of time (and I expect Danny will be "extra cautious" with him).
This report makes it sound like the pain has been present for a while, but it got worse when Sullinger started practicing for the second half so he had it looked at.
If it was diagnosed on Xray, it's probably not going to be a quick return.
If it was seen only on MRI, it might have just been a little bit of mild inflammation. For it to show up on X-ray, it's probably at least a moderate stress reaction or early stress fracture.
Apparently it's not good for your metatarsals to play 30 minutes a night of NBA basketball and weigh 300 lbs. I hope they make him bike/swim 4 hours a day while he's recovering.
If it was seen only on MRI, it might have just been a little bit of mild inflammation. For it to show up on X-ray, it's probably at least a moderate stress reaction or early stress fracture.
Apparently it's not good for your metatarsals to play 30 minutes a night of NBA basketball and weigh 300 lbs. I hope they make him bike/swim 4 hours a day while he's recovering.
I like Sully more than most here but is he going to be one of those guys who can't shake injuries? Will he ever get into the kind of physical fitness where this stuff stops happening?
And therein lies the key to Sully's future, doesn't it? If he does not change his level of fitness he may never achieve his potential. So, while this is a challenge, there remains a few "sunbeams of hope." Others in the NBA have made this shift, so why not Sully?ifmanis5 said:
1. Anthony Bennett was a real doughboy during college. He dropped significant amounts of weight as a pro. See the pix (which I cannot figure out how to post) here: http://fansided.com/2014/09/10/anthony-bennett-minnesota-timberwolves-lost-lot-weight-photo/
2. Andray Blatche went from 280 pounds to 260, and had a lot more muscle making up those pounds, as opposed to high lard content.
3. MItch McGary was similar and dropped 20 pounds while at University of Michigan, and now plays fairly well for OKC.
4. Patty Mills, (whom Popovich once call "Fatty Patty") changed his body weight from 13% to 5.8%, though his over all weight is not dramatically different.
5. Of course the most famous poster boy for weight loss recently is Lebron, who dropped 10-12 pounds.
EDIT: I just saw this article posted on another blog. Sully weighed 280 as a freshman at OSU. Then took the picture in the article below after working on his conditioning.
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/campusrivalry/post/2011/09/jared-sullinger-ohio-state-twitter-photo-body/1#.VOpb1bPF-aF
If the picture is real, then it shows that Sully has indeed worked himself into good condition at least once in his life.
Danny doesn't like Sully's conditioning either.
LINK: http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celtics/post/_/id/4718032/ainge-sullys-shape-not-good-enough
LINK: http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celtics/post/_/id/4718032/ainge-sullys-shape-not-good-enough
I'm not saying this would be good for the organization as a whole but I do believe if Sullinger hadn't gotten hurt, the Celts would be undefeated since the All-Star Break.
I'm also of the opinion that if you had this core (Sullinger, Olynyk, I.Thomas, Bradley, Smart) with a solid FA acquistion and an decent draft pick, this is a playoff team next year.
I'm also of the opinion that if you had this core (Sullinger, Olynyk, I.Thomas, Bradley, Smart) with a solid FA acquistion and an decent draft pick, this is a playoff team next year.
SeanBerry said:
In case you you haven't noticed, the Celtics are one game out of the 8 seed THIS season.
A full season of all of those young guys with normal expected improvement, along with a solid FA and another draft pick, should certainly be a playoff team in the East next season.
I'm not predicting a playoff run this year necessarily, but not sure you're going out on a limb that much with that prediction.
I don't know, I think Danny is usually careful about what he says to the press.JCizzle said:
This statement from Ainge worries me. If things are bad enough that he's calling out Sullinger this strongly, I wonder if Sullinger will ever find the willpower to build strength and control his eating.
It sounds to me like Ainge is prepping the fan base on Sully not being long for Boston.crystalline said:
radsoxfan said:
Yeah... I should have defined that better. I meant a Top 6 team in the East. Not bottom feeding for a 8 slot.
HomeRunBaker said:
I've been hoping the Celts ship out Sullinger for a while now, but its looking like that ship has sailed.
I don't like the 76ers, but when they decided internally that MCW is a fraud, or at least not a cornerstone, they traded him less than halfway into his rookie deal. They didn't crown him as part of their "young core" just because he's young.
Sullinger, who's contributions to the game are very statistically visible, and who is always "a conditioning program away", to me is the kind of player someone else will value more than you while they are still an unknown. But we've held onto him long enough to largely exhaust his potential-based value.
Papelbon's Poutine said:
Well, the Bucks have 9 more wins than the Celtics so there's that. Do the Bucks have that much more of a shot? Probably not now but I'd say the Bucks were a better team before Parker got hurt.
I also said Top 6 team. Not 6 seed.
How good do you guys think this team will be next year? I'm not trying to be snarky but it just seems like some folks seem more confident in the talent on this team because they are in a bad conference.They are 23-34. I'd say winning 45 games next year would be a really decent improvement.
It's really hard to improve by 10 games in this league unless you add a star player. The C's are currently on pace for 33 wins. Breaking .500 next year is an ambitious (but theoretically achievable) goal unless something really crazy happens over the offseason.
On Sullinger, I think he's still got lots of "potential" value. He is still really young - turns 23 later this week. While the injury was a clear negative, he was in slightly better shape this year & played significantly better this year than last year. Unless the right situation comes up, I don't see any urgency to trade him - he is a good player, he just needs to play next to a rim protector to mask his deficiencies.
On Sullinger, I think he's still got lots of "potential" value. He is still really young - turns 23 later this week. While the injury was a clear negative, he was in slightly better shape this year & played significantly better this year than last year. Unless the right situation comes up, I don't see any urgency to trade him - he is a good player, he just needs to play next to a rim protector to mask his deficiencies.
ALiveH said:
I dunno. Before this season, if you acquired Sully, you have two years to evaluate him. You have a full offseason of him in your program to give him a diet and exercise related program, to see if he has what it takes mentally. You have enough of a tryout period to see if Sullinger is the real deal.
Now? You know he did not take a step in his 2014 season. You know he didn't get himself into shape. You know he finished the year on the shelf. If you were to acquire him in-season in 2015 you have one chance for him to demonstrate that he is worthy of long-term investment.
I see your point, that he is young, I just think that the risk associated with him goes up when he gets paid. And the immediacy of that payday, combined with the fact that 2014 is another unflattering data point, hurts in my estimation.
EDIT: As for the discussion of the Celtics' squad improving, I think your assessment of the team's quality is correct, but you are underestimating the "playing in the East" factor. A lot of the terrible teams (Philly, NY, Brooklyn) look primed to stay bad, and some of the middling teams (Detroit, Milkwaukee, Orlando, Charlotte) could conceivably get worse. Nevermind that Miami could be facing the cliff, between Bosh's unfortunate health situation and Wade's age.
Did anyone check this story by Jackie Mac?
http://espn.go.com/boston/nba/story/_/id/12545144/boston-celtics-forward-jared-sullinger-facing-heavy-burden
Am I a bad person for feeling no sympathy for this guy? He comes off as a high school kid who needs a guidance counselor. I am imagining him hanging out with Greg Oden, eating Doritos, and playing video games all night.
http://espn.go.com/boston/nba/story/_/id/12545144/boston-celtics-forward-jared-sullinger-facing-heavy-burden
Am I a bad person for feeling no sympathy for this guy? He comes off as a high school kid who needs a guidance counselor. I am imagining him hanging out with Greg Oden, eating Doritos, and playing video games all night.
As a person who likes eating for the sake of eating and who weighs 15-20 pounds more than he would have liked, because he indulges himself, I completely empathize with him.
Doesn't late night eating contribute to sleeplessness? I know it's a tough habit to kick when there's nothing better to do in the wee hours, but as a pro athlete he should probably at least try to change his habits.
I don't want the guy to drop a ton of weight - he needs the big butt - but it would be nice if he could make it through a full season.
I don't want the guy to drop a ton of weight - he needs the big butt - but it would be nice if he could make it through a full season.
A lot of pseudo-science being dropped by Sully, too. There's a lot of evidence that weight gain and loss is about macronutrition: a function of calories in vs. calories out. Genetics no doubt plays a role, but it's nowhere near as important as how many rolls you're putting down. And the metabolism stuff is bullshit, too: Sully's body does the same thing with a tub of ice cream at midnight, crying in the shower, that James Young's would. What's tough is your body gets used to taking in a certain amount, and then late at night, you get hungry, because guess what, it's used to getting food at that hour.
Bottom line is he must being having a lot of fucking fruit cups.
I empathize, but at the same time, there's really no excuse. Carbs may be addictive, but they're not heroin. I'm happy the FO made this a directive, rather than a conversation, because it sounds like he's got a whole battery of excuses lined up.
I would love to see him at 260 for a season: he might actually be able to get enough lift to shoot 3 pointers effectively; enough dexterity to defend the four.
Bottom line is he must being having a lot of fucking fruit cups.
I empathize, but at the same time, there's really no excuse. Carbs may be addictive, but they're not heroin. I'm happy the FO made this a directive, rather than a conversation, because it sounds like he's got a whole battery of excuses lined up.
I would love to see him at 260 for a season: he might actually be able to get enough lift to shoot 3 pointers effectively; enough dexterity to defend the four.
Certainly explains some things. If he wants to get in shape he can have a career like Paul Millsap. If he doesn't he'll be a backup or out of the league.
I think weight regulation - not my field - is a lot more complicated than the old "calories in calories out" formulation, or at least we're measuring those things wrong. But Sully doesn't strike me as a guy who is getting his high calories from a diet rich in fruit and nuts.
I never had food issues but I did hear a trainer I respect say something I thought made sense. He said food addiction might be the hardest addiction because you have to eat. You can't simply avoid your habit
luckiestman said:
No, you don't have to eat unhealthy things, especially in bulk. For the same reason pill addicts don't have to avoid taking antibiotics or an aspirin, people with poor eating habits don't have this cop-out. The excuses Sullinger puts forth is just evidence that he doesn't care to change at the moment. Hopefully he gets a damn get a damn nutritionist, because it is that easy if he also seeks therapy for his addiction.
Seeing people like Anthony Mason eat themselves to death should be a wake-up call to younger players.
If not being fat is so easy, why is almost everyone in the United States fat? There are a lot of fat athletes. It has never been an issue for me and I kind of feel for Sullinger. He isn't hurting me by over eating, he is only sabotaging himself. People are writing like they're mad at the guy.mt8thsw9th said:
There aren't a lot of fat basketball, hockey or even baseball players outside of a small amount of pitchers, DH's and 1B's. Football they're strong-fat out of necessity. And almost everyone in the US doesn't have the specter of lost millions in potential future earnings driving them to stay in shape.luckiestman said:
Fishy1 said:
Great post. The popular wisdom of night-time calorie intake being intrinsically harder to burn off has no known scientific basis in humans. Weight regulation is largely calories in/out, there's more to it than that (managing the metabolism) but that's what the nutritionist is for.
Kevin Love was a 275 lb doughboy at UCLA. After his rookie season he hired a personal chef and nutritionist which along with self-discipline allowed him to develop a physique that doesn't resemble the one when he entered the league.
Sully doesn't have Love's skillset.....nor does he have Love's self-discipline or maturity to make the necessary lifestyle change to best serve him in the NBA.
Sully doesn't have Love's skillset.....nor does he have Love's self-discipline or maturity to make the necessary lifestyle change to best serve him in the NBA.
HomeRunBaker said:
Totally agree. He seems like a nice kid but it's much easier to imagine him as the second coming of Big Baby or Tractor Trailer in 5 years than his perceived ceiling, which isn't terribly high. I'd love for him to prove me wrong.
It's much easier for me to imagine Olynyk gaining muscle and getting a chip on his shoulder.
Sullinger's whole "it's not as simple as hiring a personal chef, guys *eye roll*" tells me a lot about his maturity level. That plus his evasive answer when asked if he ever cracked the 300 pound threshold. He's young so there is plenty of room to grow but thank goodness Ainge and the FO are setting clear expectations going forward.HomeRunBaker said:
As someone who should weigh 10 pounds less than I do, I am acutely aware of the days when I mess up diet-wise. It's a struggle for a lot of people and we are not getting paid exorbitant amounts of money to play a game for a living. Hopefully Sullinger figures this out sooner rather than later.
Fishy1 said:
The X Man Cometh said:
Probably not the right place for this discussion, but is this really the current state of research? I'd truly like to know. I thought a few years back that obesity - particularly keeping weight off - in people had a lot to do with genetics.
For example, see this summary article from 2011 - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3137002/ - which appears to say that genes can interact with enviroments, but genetics plays a "non-negligable" part in obesity.
wade boggs chicken dinner said:
Pretty sure you're right. It's way more complicated than calories in/calories out, and almost every serious scientist recognizes that. It IS hard for Sully, but it is also possible. Hope he can do it.
I didn't want to tear apart that posters comments, which are easy to do, and not to dive into precursors such as hip to waist ratios, pretty much everything he wrote is incorrect so there's that.wade boggs chicken dinner said:
Yeah, I'm not nearly as well read as I thought I was. File this one under me talking out of my ass.HomeRunBaker said:
Edit: and in less than 15 minutes, I'm less stupid than I was. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/08/health/08fat.html?pagewanted=all '> http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/08/health/08fat.html?pagewanted=all
I'd like to know too. Quickly skimming, the genetics mentioned by that summary don't invalidate Calories In/Calories Out -wade boggs chicken dinner said:
which is to say, these genes affect the amount consumed but not the effect of increased consumption on the body. The prevailing thought on fitness forums and in fitness discussions is almost scornfully asking 'oh, so your body can violate the laws of thermodynamics?' when calories in/out is questioned.
Count me in the camp of people that thinks that Sullinger just isn't trying hard enough. As a professional athlete with a potential chef, nutritionist and trainers, it shouldn't be this much of an issue.