Seidenberg tears ACL/MCL

Eddie Jurak

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Do you think they'll be in the market for a D-man or fill from within? Can they bring Miller up full-time without losing him?
The only risk with Miller is that if he's up on a non-emergency basis he would have to go through waivers to be sent back down. Since he's #7 on the depth chart with Seidenberg gone, this shouldn't be an issue.
 

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They can bring Miller up full-time as long as they don't send him down again at all for the rest of the year. So it's unlikely they call him up again before exploring the trade market, just piece things together with Warsofsky's remaining 7 games and Trotman's 9 for the next few weeks. With Hamilton coming back soon, they're going to roll with Chara-Hamilton/Boychuk-Bartkowski/Krug-McQuaid anyway.
 
Need Chara, Hamilton, and Boychuk to get & stay healthy the rest of the way. Maybe see what the Iginla package from last deadline (Koko/Bartkowski/pick) can get in the way of a top-4 D. Sucks to lose Seidenberg, he hasn't been having his best year but he's still a big loss.
 

MoGator71

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We could send you Hal Gill if you want, or Meszaros...
 
Seriously, that sucks for Boston's chances in the playoffs. Big loss.
 

cshea

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I'd imagine they'll try to piece it together with Warsofsky and Trotman until Hamilton returns (hopefully in a week or so). After the dust settles, I'd imagine they'll explore the trade market for a more veteran defenseman. I don't anticipate seeing Miller up for a bit. Seidenberg can move around, and plays the right with Chara in the playoffs, but he's mainly is a left D during the regular season when he's not with Z. Miller's a right D, which the Bruins suddenly have an abundance of. In the short term, I think Warsofsky gets first crack.
 
What really blows is the contract extension Seidenberg signed during the beginning of the season. He'll be a 33-year old coming off major knee surgery entering the first year of a 4 year, $16 million extension.   
 

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If they do make a trade it almost has to be for a pure rental, they're already facing a cap crunch for next year between raises for Smith & Krug and the inevitable bonus overage rolled over from this year. Not a lot out there that's appealing and might be available at reasonable prices.
 
Yeah, the contract extension hurts in hindsight. Have to hope he comes back close to 100% and/or the cap jumps again in 2015.
 

cshea

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I had quick glance at possible rentals that could be available at the deadline. It's not a pretty list, the only player that caught my eye was Mark Stuart. Acquisition cost should be relatively cheap, he only makes $1.7 million, and there's some familiarity between him and the Bruins. 
 
Edit: Dan Giardi, would probably be the closest thing to Seidenberg available on the trade market, should the Rangers decide to throw in the towel and move him. He'd likely be cost prohibitive, but if the Rangers make him available, I'd inquire. The metro division sucks though so they'll be in the thick of things all year. 
 

Dalton Jones

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They have to make a trade. Maybe not right away. But Chara is already logging too many minutes. And for the playoff run they'll need depth.
 

Salem's Lot

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Dalton Jones said:
They have to make a trade. Maybe not right away. But Chara is already logging too many minutes. And for the playoff run they'll need depth.
They don't need to make a trade. They need to trust the young defensemen to play more minutes. Now is not the time to make a shitty trade out of panic. If an upgrade is available at the deadline at a reasonable cost then make the deal, if not, trust the farm system.
 

veritas

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Manzivino said:
If they do make a trade it almost has to be for a pure rental, they're already facing a cap crunch for next year between raises for Smith & Krug and the inevitable bonus overage rolled over from this year. Not a lot out there that's appealing and might be available at reasonable prices.
 
Yeah, the contract extension hurts in hindsight. Have to hope he comes back close to 100% and/or the cap jumps again in 2015.
 
I don't see them limited to a rental, the cap is going way up next year and they don't have that many holes to fill.  If they take on a big salary and it's an impact player, they'll have the time and the means to fit them into the cap for next season.
 
Wonder what the price tag for Brian Campbell would be...
 
edit:  Oh FFS, Chara is hurt now, not playing tonight
 

Jordu

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Some of the young D men -- Krug, Warsofsky, Hamilton -- can't replace Seidenberg's toughness and shut-down defense, and the bigger & stronger of the young guys -- Bartkowski, Miller -- obviously can't replace his experience and game sense.

We need to acquire another D in a trade.
 

Manzivino

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Trade deadline isn't until March 5 this year because of the Olympics, so there's a lot of time to figure out if the young guys can step up or if they need to look outside the organization.
 
I did a little digging on Capgeek and of the Providence D prospects (Miller, Warsofsky, Trotman, Morrow, Cross, Casto in descending order of likelihood to be called up), Miller is the only one who isn't exempt from waivers. This is because he was 23 when he signed his first contract, 24 for the purposes of waiver eligibility, so he was only exempt for 2 years. He had already passed through waivers in October to go to Providence in the first place, so playing 10 NHL games would have triggered another set of waivers for him to go back down. Everyone else has enough waiver exemption left to get an extended tryout without being limited to 9 games to protect them from waivers.
 
veritas said:
 
I don't see them limited to a rental, the cap is going way up next year and they don't have that many holes to fill.  If they take on a big salary and it's an impact player, they'll have the time and the means to fit them into the cap for next season.
 
Wonder what the price tag for Brian Campbell would be...
 
edit:  Oh FFS, Chara is hurt now, not playing tonight
 
They have $13,187,500 in cap space for next season right now, including Savard's LTIR. They're right up against the cap this year just in base salaries and have $5.6M above and beyond that between Iginla ($4.2M), Krug ($0.7875) and Hamilton ($0.6). While some of those aren't going to be attained, most if not all of Iginla's are games played based and he's already earned $3.7M for playing in 10 games. So call it $5M in bonus overage coming off of next year's cap. That's down to $8.1875M in cap space. Smith and Krug are RFAs that need raises, that's a minimum of $5M  between the two of them IMO, leaves you at $3.1875M. That's to sign a backup goalie, 7th D, and a top 9 wing (third line if you go with Eriksson on the first line and Smith on the second). Even qualifying Svedberg and Bartkowski/Miller for bench slots that leaves you pretty short up against it.
 
Yes the cap is taking a big chump, but the flat year this year forced Chiarelli to get creative and use next year's cap space to sign Iginla for this year. That doesn't leave them with nearly as much wiggle room as people believe.
 

veritas

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Manzivino said:
Trade deadline isn't until March 5 this year because of the Olympics, so there's a lot of time to figure out if the young guys can step up or if they need to look outside the organization.
 
I did a little digging on Capgeek and of the Providence D prospects (Miller, Warsofsky, Trotman, Morrow, Cross, Casto in descending order of likelihood to be called up), Miller is the only one who isn't exempt from waivers. This is because he was 23 when he signed his first contract, 24 for the purposes of waiver eligibility, so he was only exempt for 2 years. He had already passed through waivers in October to go to Providence in the first place, so playing 10 NHL games would have triggered another set of waivers for him to go back down. Everyone else has enough waiver exemption left to get an extended tryout without being limited to 9 games to protect them from waivers.
 
 
They have $13,187,500 in cap space for next season right now, including Savard's LTIR. They're right up against the cap this year just in base salaries and have $5.6M above and beyond that between Iginla ($4.2M), Krug ($0.7875) and Hamilton ($0.6). While some of those aren't going to be attained, most if not all of Iginla's are games played based and he's already earned $3.7M for playing in 10 games. So call it $5M in bonus overage coming off of next year's cap. That's down to $8.1875M in cap space. Smith and Krug are RFAs that need raises, that's a minimum of $5M  between the two of them IMO, leaves you at $3.1875M. That's to sign a backup goalie, 7th D, and a top 9 wing (third line if you go with Eriksson on the first line and Smith on the second). Even qualifying Svedberg and Bartkowski/Miller for bench slots that leaves you pretty short up against it.
 
Yes the cap is taking a big chump, but the flat year this year forced Chiarelli to get creative and use next year's cap space to sign Iginla for this year. That doesn't leave them with nearly as much wiggle room as people believe.
 
True, but acquiring a top pair D-man who is not a rental makes Boychuck and his $3.4 million cap hit very expendable next season, which would help a lot
 

Manzivino

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True, but acquiring a top pair D-man who is not a rental makes Boychuck and his $3.4 million cap hit very expendable next season, which would help a lot


True. Of course I'd rather have Boychuk at $3.4 than Seidenberg at $4 coming off knee surgery but regardless you can move a D if you get a non-rental top 4 guy. I would still prefer to save what space they have to re-sign Iginla or find another top 6 wing. You were right in your first post though, there's a lot of time before it's an issue; if they find a non-rental they like at the right price they can figure out the cap in the offseason.
 

cshea

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Kevan Miller is back up on emergency recall. Warsofsky and Trotman were both returned to Providence yesterday, so presumably Chara will be back tomorrow. I'm a little surprised they didn't keep Warsofky up due to his handedness and strong play Saturday. They're going to have to have a right D play his off side tomorrow.
 

Manzivino

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Kevan Miller is back up on emergency recall. Warsofsky and Trotman were both returned to Providence yesterday, so presumably Chara will be back tomorrow. I'm a little surprised they didn't keep Warsofky up due to his handedness and strong play Saturday. They're going to have to have a right D play his off side tomorrow.


Chara, Krug, Bartkowski shoot left.
Boychuk, Miller, McQuaid shoot right.

When Hamilton comes back, that's 4 right shots but you only have to play someone on their off side when Bartkowski is the healthy scratch.
 

TFP

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Pierre Maguirre reporting (heard on Dale and Holley today) that Seidenberg might be back in time for the playoffs. Claude was asked about it today and said he wouldn't rule it out. I'm mobile so no link.

I don't see how this is possible.
 

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The Four Peters said:
Pierre Maguirre reporting (heard on Dale and Holley today) that Seidenberg might be back in time for the playoffs. Claude was asked about it today and said he wouldn't rule it out. I'm mobile so no link.

I don't see how this is possible.
 
Deer Antler Spray?
 

Ferm Sheller

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The Four Peters said:
Pierre Maguirre reporting (heard on Dale and Holley today) that Seidenberg might be back in time for the playoffs. Claude was asked about it today and said he wouldn't rule it out. I'm mobile so no link.

I don't see how this is possible.
 
Posters were discussing this possibility on HFBoards a few days ago (in response to some report; possibly from Maguirre, I don't recall).  Supposedly, the report was that he might be ready in time for the ECF, should they make it to the ECF.  Is the report "in time for the playoffs" (first round) or "in time for the ECF"?
 

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cshea

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9 months seems to be the bare minimum on ACL/MCL's. Adrian Peterson and Wes Welker both tore their ACL/MCL in week 17 of the NFL seasons and returned week 1 of the following season. Both those recoveries were deemed miraculous, so a January-September recovery period seems like the best case scenario. Seids tore his on 12/27, so I don't see late May/early June as even possible. That's well ahead of Peterson and Welker.
 

Ed Hillel

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cshea said:
9 months seems to be the bare minimum on ACL/MCL's. Adrian Peterson and Wes Welker both tore their ACL/MCL in week 17 of the NFL seasons and returned week 1 of the following season. Both those recoveries were deemed miraculous, so a January-September recovery period seems like the best case scenario. Seids tore his on 12/27, so I don't see late May/early June as even possible. That's well ahead of Peterson and Welker.
 
Surgery and treatment is getting better and better, but I don't see how this is possible either. Four months!? Hey, he was skating around on one leg in the SCF and...well he sucked, so maybe it's not such a good idea.
 

Youkilis vs Wild

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Alright, you have to take me at my word on this one. But I was at the Garden the other day during the day and saw Seidenberg working out on the parquet. He was with a trainer and they were using one of those big rubber belts, wherein one walks backward and squats. (Sorry, not a big workout guy, so this is as good as a description as I can give.)
 
Anyway, I was *shocked* to see him moving the way he was; his knees were at something like a 90 degree angle. I texted my buddy to tell him and joked he'll be back soon based on my expert (read: not expert) opinion. Maybe, though!
 

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My medical knowledge is limited at best, so I'll ask this and let those smarter than me answer:
 
As I'm aware, the ACL/MCL is for lateral movement - correct?
 
Defensemen don't "cut" using their knees like someone running with a football does. Skating tends to be a lot more fluid. It's why ACL/MCL injuries are a lot less common in the NHL.
 
Is it possible that they could make a brace that limits the knees ability to absorb lateral tension, that would allow Seids to skate without further injuring it?
 
Granted his skating wouldn't be as good - but so much of defense is positioning and awareness. Put him on the blueline with someone who has quickness and can overcome his diminished speed/skating - and it could work.
 
Is it possible?
 

pappymojo

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cshea said:
9 months seems to be the bare minimum on ACL/MCL's. Adrian Peterson and Wes Welker both tore their ACL/MCL in week 17 of the NFL seasons and returned week 1 of the following season. Both those recoveries were deemed miraculous, so a January-September recovery period seems like the best case scenario. Seids tore his on 12/27, so I don't see late May/early June as even possible. That's well ahead of Peterson and Welker.
 
Not saying this is something that could happen for Seidenberg, but your comparison seems strange.  How could either Peterson or Welker have returned prior to week 1 of the following season?  Do you mean that they didn't return in the preseason games?  Why would they have?  It's preseason.
 

cshea

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It's not an ideal comparison, no injury is the same. IIRC, Peterson and Welker both did not play in the preseason. 
 
A better hockey comparison is probably Marco Sturm. He tore his ACL at age 30, on 12/20/08 and did not return that season. The Bruins advanced to the second round of the playoffs that year. He suffered another torn ACL/MCL two years later in the 2nd round of the playoffs (so early May) and didn't play until 12/21 after the Bruins traded him. That was a 7 month recovery. That's pretty quick, so who knows. 7 months still puts Seidenberg into July at the earliest. 
 

The Napkin

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First I heard about this was someone (Felger?) asked Neely about it yesterday and he wouldn't rule out him coming back. It seems to have taken on steam since then with both Claude and Chia talking about it today.
They initially said 6-8 months and he's supposedly a good bit ahead of schedule so...
Not holding my breath but a healthy and game shape Seidenbeg coming back for ECF just might give me wood.
 

TheRealness

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TheShynessClinic said:
My medical knowledge is limited at best, so I'll ask this and let those smarter than me answer:
 
As I'm aware, the ACL/MCL is for lateral movement - correct?
 
Defensemen don't "cut" using their knees like someone running with a football does. Skating tends to be a lot more fluid. It's why ACL/MCL injuries are a lot less common in the NHL.
 
Is it possible that they could make a brace that limits the knees ability to absorb lateral tension, that would allow Seids to skate without further injuring it?
 
Granted his skating wouldn't be as good - but so much of defense is positioning and awareness. Put him on the blueline with someone who has quickness and can overcome his diminished speed/skating - and it could work.
 
Is it possible?
 
TheStoryofYourRedRightAnkle said:
Fine German engineeringtm
 
I can only hope he's seeing Kobe's old German doc as much as possible. 
 
Plus, you know, he's not human. 
 

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Kenny F'ing Powers said:
Saw on the ESPN scroll while at the gym today that Chia has basically ruled him out for the playoffs.
 
Here's the quote from Charelli:
 
 
 The Bruins will likely be without defenseman Dennis Seidenberg for the rest of this season, general manager Peter Chiarelli said during his pre-playoff news conference Monday.
 
"We're not counting on Dennis to be back," Chiarelli said. "We're going to be very cautious with his injury. He has been skating, but that's all I can say on it. It really hasn't changed."
 
 
Of course they're not counting on his return. But unless there's something else that the article didn't include, I don't read that as saying it's 100% out of the realm of possibilities. Maybe 98%, but that's different than he's absolutely done for the year.
 

BoSoxFink

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I hope he is done for the year. First of all, I don't want him rushing back from an ACL tear and risk damaging him again for next year from being rushed back. Secondly, what kind of game shape would he be in anyways? It would take sonetime I would think to get back into the swing of things and he may struggle a bit at first anyways. In the end I really don't think it's worth it.
 

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BoSoxFink said:
I hope he is done for the year. First of all, I don't want him rushing back from an ACL tear and risk damaging him again for next year from being rushed back. Secondly, what kind of game shape would he be in anyways? It would take sonetime I would think to get back into the swing of things and he may struggle a bit at first anyways. In the end I really don't think it's worth it.
I completely agree. Even if they miraculously could get him back on the ice, I don't see his effectiveness to be high enough to warrant putting him in the lineup unless it was an absolutely dire emergency, in which case they are probably screwed anyways.
 

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The Four Peters said:
I completely agree. Even if they miraculously could get him back on the ice, I don't see his effectiveness to be high enough to warrant putting him in the lineup unless it was an absolutely dire emergency, in which case they are probably screwed anyways.
 
Reading DJ Bean this morning on Seidenberg's skate made me think that they are at least considering him for the playoffs, but I can't imagine him being a better choice than someone who has actually played in 2014 unless it is, as you note, a situation where we're already fucked.