Second Guesser's Club - The Rookies Shall Lead Us Forward

[absintheofmalaise]

Game 1: 7:10 
Game 2: 7:15 FOX
Game 3: 1:35
 
[tablegrid= Probable Starters ] W L G GS IP K/9 BB/9 HR/9 BABIP LOB% GB% HR/FB ERA FIP xFIP David Price 4 4 11 11 77.1 9.78 0.93 1.4 0.332 68.20% 44.10% 14.60% 4.42 3.28 2.64 Brandon Workman 0 0 4 1 11.1 7.94 3.18 0.79 0.25 77.60% 48.50% 9.10% 3.18 3.49 3.6 AAA 3 1 7 7 38.2 7.91 2.33 1.86 0.291 72.20%     5.12 5.04                                   Jake Odorizzi 2 4 10 10 49.1 10.4 4.38 0.73 0.346 72.10% 35.60% 7.30% 4.56 3.31 3.71 Rubby de la Rosa(AAA) 2 3 10 10 53.1 8.78 3.88 0 0.292 66.70%     3.04 2.74                                   Erik Bedard 2 3 9 8 41.2 6.48 3.89 0.65 0.287 64.50% 32.80% 4.80% 4.1 3.84 4.87 Jon Lester 5 6 11 11 73 10.23 2.59 0.74 0.332 67.40% 40.70% 9.20% 3.45 2.71 2.79 [/tablegrid]

 

[MakMan44]

double

 

[MakMan44]

https://twitter.com/PeteAbe/status/472439152819326976

 

[nvalvo]

We were discussing the possibilities to replace Lavarnway in the game thread last night. Hassan and Cecchini seemed like the best possibilities. 

 

[Coachster]

We were discussing the possibilities to replace Lavarnway in the game thread last night. Hassan and Cecchini seemed like the best possibilities. 

I'm surprised, with Hassan having a pretty forgettable 2014 so far. I was wondering if they were going to clear a 40-man spot and give Ryan Roberts another shot, as he's been raking recently. Oh well.

 

[HriniakPosterChild]

AJP basically just said on NESN's postgame interview that they threw at Longoria on purpose.
 
Is he working for Joe Torre's office now? How can it possibly help to say that? Does he want an unpaid vacation for himself, too? How hard is this: "We tried to work him inside and it must have slipped out of Workman's hand."

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

[QUOTE="Hriniak]AJP basically just said on NESN's postgame interview that they threw at Longoria on purpose.
 
Is he working for Joe Torre's office now? How can it possibly help to say that? Does he want an unpaid vacation for himself, too? How hard is this: "We tried to work him inside and it must have slipped out of Workman's hand."
[/QUOTE]
Nah .. "Sending a message = have to make them uncomfortable and reclaim the inside of the strike zone .. Just got away"

Can you get suspended for throwing behind a guy?

 

[joyofsox]

Apparently, as long as you actually drill the guy, you're safe.

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

Anyone know what the record is for most managers in a game for one team?

 

[Rasputin]

Anyone know what the record is for most managers in a game for one team?

 
It would almost have to be the Brian Daubach game wouldn't it?
 
But bbref doesn't list the ejections. (http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/TBA/TBA200008290.shtml)
 
Pretty sure that's the most bizarre game I have ever seen. Pedro has a no hitter going, Everett almost hits for the cycle. There's a brawl. Jimy Williams is the more sensible manager. A team targets a specific player and throws at him every single time he is up.

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

This article says that game was a tie with this one, in terms of manager ejections
 

 
The Red Sox were shaken up during the first of five confrontations that led to the ejections of Tampa Bay's manager, two coaches, three pitchers and outfielders Gerald Williams and Greg Vaughn.

 

 
Dave Eiland, Tampa Bay's starting pitcher, and coach Bill Russell, who became acting manager following Rothschild's ejection, were tossed in the third after Eiland hit Daubach and Nomar Garciaparra with pitches.

 

 
Cory Lidle was ejected in the seventh after throwing a pitch behind Daubach and coach Jose Cardenal was tossed because he was acting manager.

Poor Cory Lidle

 

[richgedman'sghost]

This article says that game was a tie with this one, in terms of manager ejections
 
 
 
Poor Cory Lidle

How about the wild San Diego Padres Atlanta Braves game from August 12 1984. In that game Padres manager Dick Williams, Ozzie Virgil Sr. Jack Krol,  and Harry Dunlop (Padres coaches) were all ejected. That game featured 3 bench clearing incidents and 2 out and out brawls. It was initally  started because the Padres were mad at Pascual Perez. Ed Whitson was ordered by his manager Dick Williams to hit Perez. Whitson was unsucessful the two times he attempted to hit Perez with pitches before being ejected. Each sucessive Padres pitcher had orders to hit Perez. It was not until the eighth inning when Craig Lefferts finally hit Perez that a real donneybrook broke out. The fight lasted over 15 minutes and in addition to the previous ejections resulted in the ejection of Joe Torre the Braves manager. According to Bruce Nash and Allan Zullo in the "The Baseball Hall of Shame's Warped Record Book"   a total of 6 managers were used in the game.

 

[Al Zarilla]

One reason Ortiz was so pissed could be because of the way he had to try to get away from the pitch thrown at him. Especially with an older player, that sudden, twisting movement you almost never do unless something is thrown more behind you than right at you can't be good for your back. Much younger Buster Posey has been out several games because of an off balance, awkward swing he took in the box. 

 

[Byrdbrain]

This may have been discussed elsewhere but I heard on the radio earlier(Johnston and Flynn I believe) that Ortiz got in touch with Price in the offseason and he thought the two of them were good. Before I heard that I was fine with what Price did and mainly blamed the umpires for the warning of both benches in the first which is what led to all the other issues.
 
If that is true then I can certainly see why Ortiz said he lost all respect for Price.

 

[HriniakPosterChild]

The league told the umpiring crew to watch out (a "bad blood" warning). It would be a very confident HP umpire that would let a HBP go by without warning both teams after the crew got that heads up.

So it sucked how it unfolded, but it's understandable how it came about.

I miss Pedro.

 

[Toe Nash]

I'm a little confused why Nava was sent down to bring RDLR up. With Pedroia currently hurt that gives them 13 pitchers and leaves the bench as just Hassan and Ross. Sure, Nava doesn't have a hit since he came back but he has only played one complete game. He was doing OK in AAA. Wouldn't it have made more sense to stay with 12 pitchers when your second baseman may have to miss a couple games?
 
I suppose it could be pretty temporary but he can't come back for ten days unless they put someone on the DL. 

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

Perhaps they're anticipating needing an extra pitcher if things get ugly again tonight?
 
I have to assume that Pedroia can play if they need him tonight, and his not starting is simply precautionary, otherwise they are woefully short of bench players.
 
Only other thing I can think is they've got no one else they can bring up to play the infield until Drew is eligible to be recalled, so they're trying to hold out on DLing Pedroia until that point.  Perhaps Monday will see Wilson optioned for Drew and Pedroia DLed to bring back Nava.

 

[Puffy]

AJP batting 3rd is kind of a tough one to take today.

 

[Toe Nash]

Perhaps they're anticipating needing an extra pitcher if things get ugly again tonight?
 
I have to assume that Pedroia can play if they need him tonight, and his not starting is simply precautionary, otherwise they are woefully short of bench players.
 
Only other thing I can think is they've got no one else they can bring up to play the infield until Drew is eligible to be recalled, so they're trying to hold out on DLing Pedroia until that point.  Perhaps Monday will see Wilson optioned for Drew and Pedroia DLed to bring back Nava.

That sounds plausible. I think my main gripe is with the team's aversion to having less than 7 relievers at all times (even if you think someone may get tossed), but that's not unique to the Sox. And is a symptom of the modern bullpen and the death of the multi-inning reliever, I suppose.

 

[absintheofmalaise]

Holt 3B
Bogaerts SS
Pierzynski C
Ortiz DH
Carp 1B
Gomes LF
Sizemore RF
Bradley CF
Herrera 2B
DeLaRosa RHP

 

[BornToRun]

Holt 3B
Bogaerts SS
Pierzynski C
Ortiz DH
Carp 1B
Gomes LF
Sizemore RF
Bradley CF
Herrera 2B
DeLaRosa RHP

I'm actually sort of okay with this.

 

[absintheofmalaise]

de Jesus DH
Zobrist SS
Joyce LF
Longoria 3B
Loney 1B
Jennings CF
Kiermaier RF
Rodriguez 2B
Solis C
Odorizzi RHP

 

[Reverend]

AJP batting 3rd is kind of a tough one to take today.

Check his stats last 2 weeks.

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

How about the wild San Diego Padres Atlanta Braves game from August 12 1984. In that game Padres manager Dick Williams, Ozzie Virgil Sr. Jack Krol,  and Harry Dunlop (Padres coaches) were all ejected. That game featured 3 bench clearing incidents and 2 out and out brawls. It was initally  started because the Padres were mad at Pascual Perez. Ed Whitson was ordered by his manager Dick Williams to hit Perez. Whitson was unsucessful the two times he attempted to hit Perez with pitches before being ejected. Each sucessive Padres pitcher had orders to hit Perez. It was not until the eighth inning when Craig Lefferts finally hit Perez that a real donneybrook broke out. The fight lasted over 15 minutes and in addition to the previous ejections resulted in the ejection of Joe Torre the Braves manager. According to Bruce Nash and Allan Zullo in the "The Baseball Hall of Shame's Warped Record Book"   a total of 6 managers were used in the game.

Neat!

Any idea if it was three managers each? Or something else?

 

[richgedman'sghost]

Neat!

Any idea if it was three managers each? Or something else?

What happened was that Eddie Lee Whitson threw the very first pitch behind Perez and missed. At that point both teams were warned that any further nonsense would result in ejections. For some reason, each subsquent Padres pitcher attempted to hit Pascual but was unsucessful. The unsuccessful efforts resulted in the ejections of Williams, Virgil Sr (acting manager). and Krol (acting acting manager). As was stated before, Craig Lefforts finally hit Perez in the eighth inning which resulted in the ejection of Lefforts  and Harry  Dunlop.  The authors Zullo and Nash stated that the brawl was one of the most viscious in history and featured fans running onto the field to join the action and also Bob Horner of the Braves (who was on the disabled list at the time), running from the broadcast booth to the field and fighting. It really seems like it was a real live WWE situation with JBL or the King running from the broadcast booth to the ring. I wonder if footage if this exists?
Sorry for the off topic  tangnent.  

 

[Just a bit outside]

What happened was that Eddie Lee Whitson threw the very first pitch behind Perez and missed. At that point both teams were warned that any further nonsense would result in ejections. For some reason, each subsquent Padres pitcher attempted to hit Pascual but was unsucessful. The unsuccessful efforts resulted in the ejections of Williams, Virgil Sr (acting manager). and Krol (acting acting manager). As was stated before, Craig Lefforts finally hit Perez in the eighth inning which resulted in the ejection of Lefforts  and Harry  Dunlop.  The authors Zullo and Nash stated that the brawl was one of the most viscious in history and featured fans running onto the field to join the action and also Bob Horner of the Braves (who was on the disabled list at the time), running from the broadcast booth to the field and fighting. It really seems like it was a real live WWE situation with JBL or the King running from the broadcast booth to the ring. I wonder if footage if this exists?
Sorry for the off topic  tangnent.  

Here is a link from deadspin that has some footage and a description of the story. http://deadspin.com/5611309/remembering-the-greatest-basebrawl-of-all-time

 

[Just a bit outside]

nm

 

[JimD]

The rookies shall lead us forward, indeed.

 

[Plympton91]

No second guessing the choice of De La Rosa to start tonight.  Would have been nice to have seen some of it, but because of the Game of the Week anachronism in which MLB needlessly pisses off the fans of every team except two every summer Saturday, I couldn't.

 

[ishmael]

No second guessing the choice of De La Rosa to start tonight.  Would have been nice to have seen some of it, but because of the Game of the Week anachronism in which MLB needlessly pisses off the fans of every team except two every summer Saturday, I couldn't.

Very odd choices by the network as well. Here in DC, we got Dodgers-Pirates, even though most baseball people in this town care about AL East teams (there may be more Red Sox + Yankees fans than actual Nats fans).

 

[canderson]

No second guessing the choice of De La Rosa to start tonight.  Would have been nice to have seen some of it, but because of the Game of the Week anachronism in which MLB needlessly pisses off the fans of every team except two every summer Saturday, I couldn't.

There was no blackout, the game was on MLB.tv and Extra Innings. Fox here carried the Pirates-Dodgers, EI carried the Fox feed of Boston-Tampa.

 

[The Boomer]

Very odd choices by the network as well. Here in DC, we got Dodgers-Pirates, even though most baseball people in this town care about AL East teams (there may be more Red Sox + Yankees fans than actual Nats fans).

 
We got the game here in Charlottesville, Virginia.  De La Rosa looked like a big Pedro out there.  He dominated just like his mentor.  Pierzynski handled him beautifully.  It's accurate to say that they lost the shutout by Jackie Bradley's nose.
 
Even more fun, because I didn't have a ticket to the NCAA baseball game here tonight, I got to flip channels to see a true college ace, lefty Nathan Kirby, dominate Arkansas with an 8 inning 1 hitter.
 
With so many quality upper level position prospects and major league ready arms, the future is bright for the Sox no matter how this roller coaster season turns out.  Bogaerts and Bradley were just the first wave of what looks like the largest influx of homegrown players ever.  The 2015 rotation, except for Lackey and almost every position regular could foreseeably be occupied by talent that was signed and developed by the Red Sox organization.

 

[Plympton91]

Hmm. I guess I didn't flip around enough. When I saw it wasn't on NESN
or MLB Network and Fox had a game I gave up. Nice to know that the other national games are available now to us saps that pay for the Packages.

 

[Rasputin]

With so many quality upper level position prospects and major league ready arms, the future is bright for the Sox no matter how this roller coaster season turns out.  Bogaerts and Bradley were just the first wave of what looks like the largest influx of homegrown players ever.  The 2015 rotation, except for Lackey and almost every position regular could foreseeably be occupied by talent that was signed and developed by the Red Sox organization.

 
Lackey, Napoli, Victorino, Left Field. I don't really see anyone in house to take control of left for 2015.
 
I'm actually rather expecting a deadline trade for a left fielder and I'm kind of hoping that whoever it is is signed for 2015 as well. Then in 2016, Mookie takes over in right and Lackey goes away and Owens joins the rotation. Still, left and first.

 

[richgedman'sghost]

So Plympton 91 do you withdraw your objection in your previous post. Maybe you should stay away though. You said you turned off the tv before the Red Sox rallied in Atlanta in the game that began the streak and then last night...coincidence or not? LOL

 

[Toe Nash]

No second guessing the choice of De La Rosa to start tonight.  .

One could second-guess giving Buchholz so much rope, but maybe RDLR doesn't do this a couple weeks ago (Though Workman probably could have been fine). Oh well.

 

[absintheofmalaise]

Getaway day line up. No Holt, Sizemore or AJP*. But, Pedroia is back.
 
Holt 1B
Bogaerts SS
Pedroia 2B
Ortiz DH
Gomes LF
Hassan RF
Ross C
Bradley Jr. CF
Herrera 3B
Lester LHP
 
*I never thought I would lament not having Holt or AJP in a line up.

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

Getaway day line up. No Holt, Sizemore or AJP*. But, Pedroia is back.
 
Holt 1B
Bogaerts SS
Pedroia 2B
Ortiz DH
Gomes LF
Hassan RF
Ross C
Bradley Jr. CF
Herrera 3B
Lester LHP
 
*I never thought I would lament not having Holt or AJP in a line up.

 
No Holt?  Then who's that guy leading off and playing first?

 

[absintheofmalaise]

I'm a dumb ass. Change that to lament not having AJP in the line up.

 

[MakMan44]

beaten to it. 

 

[Puffy]

Stacking the lineup with as much RHH as possible given the fairly decimated 25-man against the lefty Bedard. AJP, Carp, and Sizemore on the bench - and Cecchini too, once called up.

 

[absintheofmalaise]

You will have more chances MakMan.

 

[glennhoffmania]

I'm a dumb ass. Change that to lament not having AJP in the line up.

 
Agreed.  So why don't you edit your post so it doesn't say "no Holt" anymore?

 

[Reverend]

Agreed.  So why don't you edit your post so it doesn't say "no Holt" anymore?

It's a trap to troll for over-eager posters who don't read the whole thread before posting.

 

[glennhoffmania]

Makes sense.  Abs is nothing if not extremely crafty.