Sea Bass and Syrah - Copa America Chile 2015
- Thread starter Zososoxfan
- Start date
yeah, I deleted it because it was a little inaccurate , he's been pretty decent, but the two goals were both gimmiesZomp said:
Argentina finally broke thru and put 6 past Paraguay. Argentina spaced their offense as best as they have all tournament, mostly by having Messi pickup the ball deeper, which created more space for Pastore, Di Maria, and Aguero. Pastore in particular took advantage and created opportunities and had an excellent finish to put Argentina ahead by 2. Rojo had a bit of a sloppy goal off a Messi free kick to start it off, Di Maria finished nicely on his first, cleaned up the scraps on his second, and played in an excellent ball to Aguero for a header as well. Higuain got a late garbage goal. The thing that stands out to me is the variety of these goals. Free kick, 2 thru balls, a header, and 2 clean up goals. Paraguay pulled one back because Pastore was a ninny on a header and the defense, specifically Otamendi, didn't clear deep when they had the chance. Biglia had a pedestrian game, but otherwise the team played very well overall.
The matchup with Chile is awesome. Chile will play their press game and Argentina will be forced to play quickly out of the back. If they can do so effectively, Chile will be vulnerable in midfield and defense. OTOH, Chile has the skill and quality to get a goal or 2 past Argentina. I'd give a slight edge to Bravo in goal. Romero is a quality keeper, but Bravo seems unstoppable at times and his distribution has been excellent. I imagine Zabaleta will be asked to stay home more than usual to give cover for Alexis. Otamendi and Garay (presumably) will have the hard task of keeping track of Vargas. Masche will likely be tasked with keeping Valdivia in check, but I could also see Di Maria and Biglia tasked with helping. Masche and Biglia (or Banega) will have to work hard to stop Valdivia and Vidal with Di Maria helping on the deeper Chilean. Chile attack pretty narrowly, so an organized defense is imperative. If Argentina can break the press, Messi, Pastore, Aguero, and a late arriving Di Maria and FB support will try and break down the Chilean back 4+2 (with Vidal acting as a 7th). If the midfield gets caught out, the Chilean backline will be under pressure and does not have the pace to keep up. Will be interesting to see how Chile organizes their MF, because if Messi is able to pickup the ball in the final third (as opposed to closer to midfield) facing goal, he's lethal.
The matchup with Chile is awesome. Chile will play their press game and Argentina will be forced to play quickly out of the back. If they can do so effectively, Chile will be vulnerable in midfield and defense. OTOH, Chile has the skill and quality to get a goal or 2 past Argentina. I'd give a slight edge to Bravo in goal. Romero is a quality keeper, but Bravo seems unstoppable at times and his distribution has been excellent. I imagine Zabaleta will be asked to stay home more than usual to give cover for Alexis. Otamendi and Garay (presumably) will have the hard task of keeping track of Vargas. Masche will likely be tasked with keeping Valdivia in check, but I could also see Di Maria and Biglia tasked with helping. Masche and Biglia (or Banega) will have to work hard to stop Valdivia and Vidal with Di Maria helping on the deeper Chilean. Chile attack pretty narrowly, so an organized defense is imperative. If Argentina can break the press, Messi, Pastore, Aguero, and a late arriving Di Maria and FB support will try and break down the Chilean back 4+2 (with Vidal acting as a 7th). If the midfield gets caught out, the Chilean backline will be under pressure and does not have the pace to keep up. Will be interesting to see how Chile organizes their MF, because if Messi is able to pickup the ball in the final third (as opposed to closer to midfield) facing goal, he's lethal.
Definitely got the most exciting of the all of the potential final matchups. That said, I can't see how Chile has much of a chance, at least assuming no refereeing shenanigans. Argentina is solid at the back and have a strong defensive record, and with talents like Messi, Aguero, Higuain, Di Maria, etc. in attack, even if they lose the midfield battle, they can hang on defensively and destroy Chile on the counter.
If Chile is going to have a chance, they'll have to score. Probably a lot. I'm hoping for a 4-3 game with Chile winning their first ever Copa, but I think 3-1 Argentina is the more likely outcome.
If Chile is going to have a chance, they'll have to score. Probably a lot. I'm hoping for a 4-3 game with Chile winning their first ever Copa, but I think 3-1 Argentina is the more likely outcome.
It's easy to say Argentina will score goals on the back of a 6-1 win, but in their three Copa games against teams other than Paraguay, they've scored exactly twice. All of those talented attackers don't always click, and I don't think they'll necessarily fire against Chile; I think Argentina is far more likely to be shutout than to score 3+ goals again.
It's not the 6-1 win that sways me, it's the combination of Argentina's individual attacking talent and Chile's often horrendous defending. In the three Chile games I've watched (Ecuador, Mexico B team, Peru), they have allowed tons of chances despite thoroughly out-talenting their opponents. They allow these chances because they seem to throw their entire team forward at every opportunity, leaving just 2-3 defenders for a lot of even-numbers counterattacks. Argentina could have eked out a 0-0 penalty kick win and I don't think my prediction would change that much, because the types of chances Chile has been allowing seem to have little to do with their defensive shape and more to do with 1v1s, 2v2s and 3v3s where individual talent trumps chemistry. Argentina, even if not meshing, has that talent in spades.
Do you think Chile will still throw their entire team forward at every opportunity when they're *not* playing an opponent with less talent than they have? Cup finals are almost always more cagey than the matches which preceded them, and I have to think Chile will play tighter and with more discipline against Argentina - probably starting with Vidal, who seems to have spent most of the Copa in his opponent's penalty area.
ConigliarosPotential said:
That's a really good point. Though I wonder if Chile will be able to muster the necessary discipline after playing so recklessly/romantically so far.
ConigliarosPotential said:
Maybe, but Chile's style for years has been an an extremely aggressive high press. Sampaoli is a Bielsa disciple, he's not likely to do a Mourinho and sit deep for 90 minutes.
The ref will be important. If he calls it tight it is great for Argentina. If he lets Chile hack away and is scared to give them cards like the rest of the refs so far they have a great chance. (especially if he finds a way to red card an opponent who doesn't deserve it for the 3rd straight game).
"Tight" vs "loose" reffing does not at all equate to "pro-Argentina" vs "pro-Chile" reffing. This Chilean generation relies as heavily on fluid, skillful movement with the ball as do their Argentinian counterparts. They have not built their name on catenaccio, much less hacking, and it would be insane of them to try to start now.
If the refs really want to favor Chile, they'll have to call the game tight in some instances, loose in others. They would have to apply a double standard, in other words.
If the refs really want to favor Chile, they'll have to call the game tight in some instances, loose in others. They would have to apply a double standard, in other words.
No posts in 2 days?
Really looking forward to this final. Seems like Argentina is in top form, but Chile as the home team is playing for their first Copa America.
Really looking forward to this final. Seems like Argentina is in top form, but Chile as the home team is playing for their first Copa America.
Di Maria turns on the jets for the first time in what feels like 6 months, and promptly pulls a hammy
He's back on, but didn't even move as Argentina tried to break up the field.PedroSpecialK said:
EDIT: yep, coming off now. Lavezzi on.
Seeing Alexis pull 3-4 consecutive outstanding pivots then lay it off to Beausejour is reminiscent of FL4WL3SS's lesbian pr0n turning into 2 Girls, 1 Cup analogy.
lol wow, Medel straight up volleys Messi in the stomach.
"this game is more intense than a hundred wigwams" oh my god Hudson
"this game is more intense than a hundred wigwams" oh my god Hudson
I'm missing out on the Hudsonisms. For some strange reason, my cable system has Spanish beIN in HD but only SD in English.PedroSpecialK said:
I don't feel like I'm missing much.
Linesman has a perfect view that the goalie touches it out for a corner...and the ref overrules him and gives a goal kick.
Yeah couple of strange decisions - that, calling Messi for catching the quick free kick he took that bounced off the defender 1 ft in front of him, and the early clear yellow foul when Di Maria was on the break that was merely a talking-to.
Sounds odd to say, but out side of those three the ref's had a great game, hasn't bit on situations where players are trying to make the most of contact, and hasn't been too card happy. Feels as if many officials would have gone full Phil Dowd with the cards/sending offs in such a cauldron and with the early intensity of this one.
Sounds odd to say, but out side of those three the ref's had a great game, hasn't bit on situations where players are trying to make the most of contact, and hasn't been too card happy. Feels as if many officials would have gone full Phil Dowd with the cards/sending offs in such a cauldron and with the early intensity of this one.
I think Isla completed 4 successive barrel rolls after that Rojo challenge. Incredible as he was at a standstill when Rojo came in.
For SFiC's benefit - Hudson on that offside call when Lavezzi was in alone: "This better be right, señor!"
For SFiC's benefit - Hudson on that offside call when Lavezzi was in alone: "This better be right, señor!"
oh my god Higuain LOL
edit: on replay not exactly an easy chance, he had maybe a football's width to squeeze it into, Lavezzi could have laid it back for him a little higher
edit: on replay not exactly an easy chance, he had maybe a football's width to squeeze it into, Lavezzi could have laid it back for him a little higher
Lots of credit to Chile, they played a good game and are deserving champions. Other than Jara, I find them easy to like. Their aggressive style of play is a rarity in international competition and their attacking flair in combining attacks is really fun to watch. Alexis had an outstanding game, although Vargas and Valdivia were shut down for the most part. Vidal played his role well and was all over the field. Lots of credit to the other midfielders who gave Chile a numerical advantage at the back in defense and in midfield in attack. Playing 3 at the back was incredibly risky, but it paid off in spades. The real tactical advantage of Chile's formation though, was in the midfield, as Argentina rarely had space to crank up the intensity of their attack. Furthermore IMO, the defining characteristic of this game was the excellent midfield defense played by both sides .
Martino made some pretty baffling decisions, namely bringing on Higuain instead of Tevez for Aguero. He was forced to play Lavezzi for an injured Di Maria early, which I had no problem with, but Banega for Pastore is a straight switch, which shows a lack of creativity. Argentina played the same style they have been using since the WC last year, which is defend in numbers, hit hard on the break, but ultimately rely on individual brilliance to unlock the defense. Well, there wasn't much support from the midfield as Pastore and Di Maria were asked to track back, leaving only Messi and Aguero firmly in attacking positions. Pastore, Di Maria, and the FBs did come forward to support attacks eventually, but by then Chile was already organized and ready to pounce. If you're going to play a second holding MF in Biglia in addition to Masch, you have to trust those 6 (maybe with some help from Di Maria) to defend, and leave some players up front to attack. Argentina has played overly conservative the past two tournaments, which has led to positive results (2 finals), but which also required two matches decided by penalties (Colombia in the quarters and last year against the Dutch in the semis) and lots of 1-goal games (Switzerland and Belgium in the WC, Jamaica and Uruguay in this competition). While this has been a positive in terms of results, there should be a happier medium between a more aggressive and opportunistic defensive strategy and the conservative approach they are using now. I'm not sure if Martino is expected to continue as manager, but AFA should consider what direction they want the team to take ahead of WC qualifiers and next year's Copa America (if it still happens).
Martino made some pretty baffling decisions, namely bringing on Higuain instead of Tevez for Aguero. He was forced to play Lavezzi for an injured Di Maria early, which I had no problem with, but Banega for Pastore is a straight switch, which shows a lack of creativity. Argentina played the same style they have been using since the WC last year, which is defend in numbers, hit hard on the break, but ultimately rely on individual brilliance to unlock the defense. Well, there wasn't much support from the midfield as Pastore and Di Maria were asked to track back, leaving only Messi and Aguero firmly in attacking positions. Pastore, Di Maria, and the FBs did come forward to support attacks eventually, but by then Chile was already organized and ready to pounce. If you're going to play a second holding MF in Biglia in addition to Masch, you have to trust those 6 (maybe with some help from Di Maria) to defend, and leave some players up front to attack. Argentina has played overly conservative the past two tournaments, which has led to positive results (2 finals), but which also required two matches decided by penalties (Colombia in the quarters and last year against the Dutch in the semis) and lots of 1-goal games (Switzerland and Belgium in the WC, Jamaica and Uruguay in this competition). While this has been a positive in terms of results, there should be a happier medium between a more aggressive and opportunistic defensive strategy and the conservative approach they are using now. I'm not sure if Martino is expected to continue as manager, but AFA should consider what direction they want the team to take ahead of WC qualifiers and next year's Copa America (if it still happens).