Rondo trade Idea

[Hawkeye98]

3 team trade between Cleveland Boston and Minnesota.

 Cleveland: rondo&Love

Minnesota: kyrie irving, jeff green,bass and 2 first rounders from celtics

Boston:deing, wiggins and kevin martin 


Cleveland does it because they give up less for love. they also get better defensively with rondo. Rondo & Love will defiantly  resign in Cleveland.
Cleveland starting line up looks like
rondo
waiters
lebron
love
varejao
they would not have to give up wiggins and picks and bennet our something like that.


Minnesota gets a young star in lyre irving solid veterans in jeff green and bass. they also get 2 first rounders.

boston gets wiggins who I want as our starting sf and deing who is a good young center with the potential to be even better. with thorton,olynyk and young coming off the bench for more offensive support.

smart
bradley
wiggins
sully
deing

 

[Drocca]

This thread is locked.

 

[Sprowl]

I moved this thread to the Port Cellar, so now it's unlocked again.

 

[MakMan44]

What about Rubio?

 

[jose melendez]

3 team trade between Cleveland Boston and Minnesota.

 Cleveland: rondo&Love

Minnesota: kyrie irving, jeff green,bass and 2 first rounders from celtics

Boston:deing, wiggins and kevin martin 


Cleveland does it because they give up less for love. they also get better defensively with rondo. Rondo & Love will defiantly  resign in Cleveland.
Cleveland starting line up looks like
rondo
waiters
lebron
love
varejao
they would not have to give up wiggins and picks and bennet our something like that.


Minnesota gets a young star in lyre irving solid veterans in jeff green and bass. they also get 2 first rounders.

boston gets wiggins who I want as our starting sf and deing who is a good young center with the potential to be even better. with thorton,olynyk and young coming off the bench for more offensive support.

smart
bradley
wiggins
sully
deing

Actually, I think this is a pretty good deal for everyone.  I think Rondo and Love is better for Cleveland than Irving and Love.  Rondo doesn't need to score to be effective.

 

[AbbyNoho]

The formatting and spelling of the post made me want to write it off as something you'd see in the ESPN.com comments section, but the actual trade proposed doesn't seem that far-fetched. 

 

[BigMike]

Awesome deal for Boston, I assume you will be generous and the 2 first rounders will be the Cleveland pick, and maybe the Clippers pick :q:
 
I don't see it for Cleveland,  and I hate it for Minny.
 
I see Rondo as a bad fit to play with LeBron for the reasons BSF says.  I also really see Rondo as an old 28.  He has played a ton of games, and has taken a beating, I think he is well on the downside of his career.
 
Minny, get Irving who is really good, but plays the same position as Minny's best remaining player, how does that help them.     Green and Bass, are the last thing they should need want,  maybe guys who help them compete for the 8th playoff spot, but certainly not guys who help them build something.   The 2 #1's would have to be whatever the 2 best picks the Celtics control for it to make any sense (maybe the Brooklyn picks)

 

[JakeRae]

The cap numbers don't come close to working. Cleveland needs to be sending out another $13 million or so in salary for this deal to work. Minnesota is also taking back too much salary, but that problem is fixable. To bring on both Rondo and Love, Cleveland would have to add Varejao or two of Bennett, Waiters, and Thompson to the deal going to the Celtics (plus Haywood). There really is no point in proposing hypothetical trades that do not work under the cap and then asking people to discuss them.

 

[fairlee76]

I think Irving is a much better fit for LeBron than Rondo. Irving's ability to create his own offense will be very valuable to LeBron at the end of games and he's a much better shooter so if you double LeBron, Irving can make you pay.

If you put Rondo with LeBron, you're basically going to see a repeat of the 2010 NBA Finals where Rondo's man cheats off him to double LeBron or Love.

This. I don't see Cleveland wanting Rondo over Irving. Irving can create his own offense and is younger than Rondo. And I don't think the defensive upside with Rondo warrants moving Irving. I'm not sure this defensive upside even exists.

Cleveland has all the assets they need to trade for Love. I could see this deal working if the Celtics had a defensive 4/5 to send Cleveland's way. But we don't.

 

[TheoShmeo]

This is a bit simplistic but Irving seems to me to be the kind of player you just do not trade at this point in his career.  Said differently, how many times have we seen guys with his upside traded this early on?  The Cavs can build around Queen and Irving, even if they don't otherwise get Love this year.  

 

[ALiveH]

I proposed something similar in one of the threads, though I wasn't so ambitious as to turn Rondo plus a pupu platter of bad contracts and future picks into Wiggins.  I would've been happy with just more young players / picks.  I agree / sympathize with a lot of the points being made that it would not necessarily be good for the Wolves / Cavs in the long run, but it would still be foolish for Ainge to not try to explore this.  This is how you pick other team's pockets.  We know Saunders is a very sub-optimal GM.  We know that Lebron is driving a lot of the decision-making behind the scenes and Love + Rondo have at least hung out in the recent past and must have talked about possibly playing together (although at the time it was a Boston scenario).  Maybe, Lebron has a lot of respect for Rondo based on past playoff battles and would rather play with him than Irving - we don't know.
 
Also, the trade could go the other way where Rondo (plus picks / players from the Cavs) goes to the Wolves for Love and Celtics get back a 1st (hopefully Wolves weakly protected) and/or high upside young guy (Lavine or Bennett or whoever doesn't make you angry).

 

[MakMan44]

Rondo makes even less sense for the Wolves. 

 

[bowiac]

Rondo makes even less sense for the Wolves. 

I don't know if the Wolves agree with me that Rubio is a better player than Rondo, but either way, I doubt they see a huge difference between them.

 

[bbc23]

Makes no sense for the Wolves to get a player at the same position of their would be best player, especially when Irving wouldn't exactly be an upgrade over Rubio.  

 

[Devizier]

I'm with AliveH here. I don't think the Celtics can get Wiggins with anything they have on their roster currently, but they definitely should look to double dip in Cleveland's business. They have role players that Cleveland could use and they might be able to get a pick out of it.

 

[swingin val]

especially when Irving wouldn't exactly be an upgrade over Rubio.  

Wait, what?

 

[bbc23]

Wait, what?

I probably exaggerated, but Irving right now is only a marginal upgrade to Rubio, so in that sense Minny is giving up a top 5 player for 2 1sts (which likely would be around the 10-15 area), some cap space,  and a small positional upgrade at PG (not that these salaries work for this trade anyways).  

 

[fairlee76]

Probably, eh?  Kyrie Irving is not a slight upgrade over Ricky Rubio.  He's a huge upgrade over him.

 

[bowiac]

I'm a lunatic, but I honestly believe Rubio is significantly better than Irving right now.
 
Long term I'd take Kyrie, cause most players get better defensively.

 

[Brickowski]

So the Celtics give two first round picks plus Rondo for Wiggins, plus an overpaid sg who doesn't defend and a backup center?

I dislike this deal for every team except Cleveland.

 

[fairlee76]

I'm a lunatic, but I honestly believe Rubio is significantly better than Irving right now.
 
Long term I'd take Kyrie, cause most players get better defensively.

Is that purely based on Irving's defensive shortcomings when compared to Rubio?  And are those shortcomings not more than negated by Irving's offensive ability relative to Rubio?  Full disclosure, I don't watch either of these guys a ton.

 

[dylanmarsh]

Even with Irving's PPP, this deal works with the trade machine: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=mfpe4ce . I just don't see Green or Bass being taken in any deal like this if we net Wiggins.  I also don't see the TWolves taking Irving and Varejao as improving the team.  They'd become a worse version of the '13-'14 Cavs.  But, from a Celtics and Cavs perspective, this is a great deal even with a couple draft picks included.

 

[bowiac]

Is that purely based on Irving's defensive shortcomings when compared to Rubio?  And are those shortcomings not more than negated by Irving's offensive ability relative to Rubio?  Full disclosure, I don't watch either of these guys a ton.

I haven't watched that many Cavs games either (a few more Timberwolves games), so this is going off the various metrics primarily. Kyrie grades out as one of the worst defensive guards in the league, while Rubio one of the best. PG defense isn't a huge deal for most guys - there's a big cluster of them. Kyrie and Rubio are both far outside that cluster however, and I tend to trust the data that there's a vast gulf between them defensively.
 
I don't think their offensive gap is big enough to make up for that.

 

[Sprowl]

On the other hand, it sounds like Irving and Love are equally deficient at the defensive end, and both of them would rue the day that they lost the opportunity to play with Lebron James.

This trade proposal is instantly attractive because it caters to each team's current pre-occupation: Cavs want to acquire great players for 2015, TWolves want to show an immediate return for Love with upside, and the Celtics want to build around high-ceiling talent for the long term -- but don't yet have that high ceiling talent. Wiggins is the current embodiment of sky's-the-limit talent.

I doubt that Minnesota would be all that pleased with Irving, however: the TWolves would need a sweetener. Ainge has the array of draft picks needed to calibrate the sweetener to a nicety.

 

[swingin val]

Timberwolves fans would be ecstatic with a Irving return for Love. You guys are way underrating Kyrie in here

 

[Sprowl]

So the Celtics give two first round picks plus Rondo for Wiggins, plus an overpaid sg who doesn't defend and a backup center?

I dislike this deal for every team except Cleveland.

Timberwolves fans would be ecstatic with a Irving return for Love. You guys are way underrating Kyrie in here

OK, that means Cleveland and Minnesota are happy.

How about the Celtics? Depending on the quality of first-round picks headed elsewhere, I'd think Ainge would be happy to get a player with Scottie Pippen upside.

 

[bowiac]

Timberwolves fans would be ecstatic with a Irving return for Love. You guys are way underrating Kyrie in here

I'm pretty optimistic on Irving long term. He's an atrocious defender now, but Derek Rose and Kevin Durant were badly abused defensively at first as well, and turned it around. It's not like Irving doesn't have the tools to be a decent defender, so I assume he'll get there in time.
 
I just don't think he's there now. For next season, I'd rather have Rubio. Year 2 is more of a tossup, but Rubio has his own upside (he could learn to shoot!).

 

[radsoxfan]

I'm a lunatic, but I honestly believe Rubio is significantly better than Irving right now.
 
Long term I'd take Kyrie, cause most players get better defensively.

 
Their strengths and weaknesses are so different that I suppose you could concoct a specific situation in which Rubio's playmaking and defense comes close to canceling out Irving's superiority.
 
But mostly, yeah, you're a lunatic.  Irving is a far better player (and more than a year younger) than Rubio. I'm not buying the defensive metrics to the degree you are. Plus, I think the offensive gulf is currently vast, and likely to become bigger.
 
Kyrie has had an up and down injury plagued start to his career, but the guy has borderline superstar potential.  Rubio can't make a layup.  

 

[MakMan44]

I don't think that Rubio's better than Kyrie but it would be pretty hilarious if Love got traded for him. Saving that extension for Rubio is a big part of why they're in the this mess in the first place. 

 

[mt8thsw9th]

This deal basically works out to Rondo and two first rounders for Wiggins. If Ainge was that into Wiggins, there probably would have been a draft day deal with Cleveland.

I'm also imagining Love at his Cleveland introduction passing a note to Dan Gilbert that says "I resign as PF of CC" as he defiantly resigns from the team.

 

[MainerInExile]

This deal basically works out to Rondo and two first rounders for Wiggins. If Ainge was that into Wiggins, there probably would have been a draft day deal with Cleveland.

Wait, you don't think Danny would have done Rondo and two future firsts for the #1?  I do.

 

[Infield Infidel]

I kinda like a Rubio/Irving backcourt. They each have good size so Rubio can guard the more threatening offensive guard from the other team, they each can obviously handle so you'd always have a plus ballhandler on the court. Irving would get more play off the ball, but that would happen in Cleveland anyway so he'll have to learn that regardles. They would definitely need a plus defender at SF in case the other team has two really good wings. 

 

[mt8thsw9th]

Wait, you don't think Danny would have done Rondo and two future firsts for the #1?  I do.

I think if he valued Wiggins high enough he would have. And Cleveland already knew Lebron was opting out and Love was available. Even if they hadn't finalized anything on draft night, once Lebron signed they would have pulled the trigger in all likelihood.

I'm just not seeing this as being something Ainge would have done. I don't think he was that high on Wiggins, ever (though would have taken him on draft night this year without giving up a ton of assets).

Maybe I'm speculating too much, but I think if this is something that was favorable to the Celtics, it would have been done already.

 

[MainerInExile]

I think if he valued Wiggins high enough he would have. And Cleveland already knew Lebron was opting out and Love was available. Even if they hadn't finalized anything on draft night, once Lebron signed they would have pulled the trigger in all likelihood.

I'm just not seeing this as being something Ainge would have done. I don't think he was that high on Wiggins, ever (though would have taken him on draft night this year without giving up a ton of assets).

Maybe I'm speculating too much, but I think if this is something that was favorable to the Celtics, it would have been done already.

I think you're totally wrong.  I think Danny would have done it in a Manziel heartbeat, but Cleveland would never have taken it.

 

[kazuneko]

I think you're totally wrong.  I think Danny would have done it in a Manziel heartbeat, but Cleveland would never have taken it.

Completely agree. No way Cleveland goes for this.
I mean, Cleveland is hesitant to give up Wiggins straight up for Love, so why would they agree to add in in Irving? Because they covet Rondo that much? Come on.
Do you really think they would want any part of an Irving for Rondo deal (which is what this essentially ends up being)?
If they really did want Rondo, he could probably be had for the package they were initially offering for Love (Bennet, Waiters and a pick) and then Irving could be shipped to Minnesota for Love (some may think Rubio is better, but the Wolves are trying to sell this to their fanbase, and to do that they have been hoping to acquire a young star).
In the end the Cavaliers get to keep Wiggins (and his cost controlled contract) while still acquiring two stars to team up with LeBron. This isn't as good a trade for the Cs - but it much more accurately approximate Rondo's current value. There is no way Rondo a couple picks and a couple of unwanted vets are going to get you Wiggins and Dieng and Irving is too young and has too much upside to be tossed in for a deal that only adds Rondo to the return..

 

[Mloaf71]

Can we package Rondo with Lester to Miami for Stanton and Shabazz? :q: