Riding the Train: the 2013 Miami Dolphins

mcaqua

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Clears Cleaver said:
itsd going to be $13-$14M for Wallace. ugh. Sounds like they may be interested in Eric Wisnton top replace Long. but I think they may go bigger on a guard and sign a cheaper OT to back up JErry and Martin. Anyone have a clue what theya re going to do at CB? Draft a couple early? Also need a TE or two if Fasano doesn't come back
 
According to Darlington:
 

In the coming days (or hours), sources said the team will finish a deal to pay Hartline just under $7 million per season to keep him with the Dolphins.
 
So for those of you following along at home, that's (assuming Wallace goes for $13 million per) $23 million to your top 3 WRs or, in other words, about 1/5th of your total cap.  And you still have holes to fill at: CB (x2), DE, FS, TE and LT.
 
http://www.nfl.com/freeagency/story/0ap1000000147334/article/mike-wallace-not-greg-jennings-miami-dolphins-biggest-target
 

dwainw

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Clears Cleaver said:
itsd going to be $13-$14M for Wallace. ugh. Sounds like they may be interested in Eric Wisnton top replace Long. but I think they may go bigger on a guard and sign a cheaper OT to back up JErry and Martin. Anyone have a clue what theya re going to do at CB? Draft a couple early? Also need a TE or two if Fasano doesn't come back
Today's Miami Herald promotes the idea of Chris Houston (from Detroit) as a nice under-the-radar signing.
 

sodenj5

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Clears Cleaver said:
itsd going to be $13-$14M for Wallace. ugh. Sounds like they may be interested in Eric Wisnton top replace Long. but I think they may go bigger on a guard and sign a cheaper OT to back up JErry and Martin.Anyone have a clue what theya re going to do at CB? Draft a couple early? Also need a TE or two if Fasano doesn't come back
All depends on how free agency shakes out. If they sign Wallace, and bring back Hartline, then they're huge hole at WR is filled for the most part.

Then it can go a lot of different ways, but I would count on them drafting some O-line and D-line help in a draft that's really deep.
 

Clears Cleaver

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Hartlines deal should cost them no more than $4m against the cap this year. 5 years,$30.8m and only $12.5m guaranteed.

The official FA signing period starts 4:00pm Tuesday but the new rule about unrestricted FAs being able to negotiate with teams via their agents beginning Friday night/Saturday at midnight. So basically, we will know where many of the big name guys will be signing when we wake up Saturday morning. Let the games begin. And don't f this up Ireland.
 

pdaj

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dwainw said:
Today's Miami Herald promotes the idea of Chris Houston (from Detroit) as a nice under-the-radar signing.
 
I like Houston a lot. He seems to be a bit underrated. 
 
Clears Cleaver said:
Hartlines deal should cost them no more than $4m against the cap this year. 5 years,$30.8m and only $12.5m guaranteed.

The official FA signing period starts 4:00pm Tuesday but the new rule about unrestricted FAs being able to negotiate with teams via their agents beginning Friday night/Saturday at midnight. So basically, we will know where many of the big name guys will be signing when we wake up Saturday morning. Let the games begin. And don't f this up Ireland.
 
I know we would have loved to see Hartline sign for 4 per, but that just wasn't going to happen coming off of a career year and headed into FA. I'm thrilled he was locked up and think 6 per in this market is fair.
 
We all know Ireland's going after a top WR, but it'll be interesting to see what he does after that. Does he sign a veteran tackle? A top TE? A big name at safety? Or a pass rusher at DE? He can't do it all via FA.
 
Thus, who Miami may target in the NFL draft will become a lot clearer in a week or so.
 

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File this under surprising: Matt Moore has resigned with the Dolphins to backup Tannehill. Excellent, excellent move by Ireland.
 

Shelterdog

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Clears Cleaver said:
Hartlines deal should cost them no more than $4m against the cap this year. 5 years,$30.8m and only $12.5m guaranteed.

The official FA signing period starts 4:00pm Tuesday but the new rule about unrestricted FAs being able to negotiate with teams via their agents beginning Friday night/Saturday at midnight. So basically, we will know where many of the big name guys will be signing when we wake up Saturday morning. Let the games begin. And don't f this up Ireland.
 
We'll have to see the numbers but I'd be pretty surprised if he was only 4 this year with that guaranty; it's a low guaranty for that size contract so you'd think he has reasonably high salary numbers in years one and two or he wouldn't have signed.
 

Clears Cleaver

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surprised moore resigned when he had a chance perhaps to compete for starting jobs in other cities. maybe no one would give him that and he was comfortable in miami. certainly a solid backup
 

dwainw

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sodenj5 said:
File this under surprising: Matt Moore has resigned with the Dolphins to backup Tannehill. Excellent, excellent move by Ireland.
Very nice.  The guy arguably belongs in a category with Morrall, Strock, and Kosar.  Hopefully he won't have the chance to play his way out of it.
 

Clears Cleaver

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a lot of "reporting" saying many on league expect Wallace to land in Miami with one of the first contracts signed after 4:00pm tomorrow. also read Winston long shot for Miami and that they may resign Long.
 

pdaj

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Clears Cleaver said:
a lot of "reporting" saying many on league expect Wallace to land in Miami with one of the first contracts signed after 4:00pm tomorrow. also read Winston long shot for Miami and that they may resign Long.
 
I'm very optimistic about the Dolphins landing Wallace, but I refuse to get all hyped about it until it's official. Fool me twice, shame on me. Miami has seemingly set the market, and there's plenty of time remaining for another team to swoop in.
 
The Dolphins reportedly being "very interested" in Brandon Gibson makes me believe that Ireland is preparing for every possible final outcome with Wallace. Perhaps Gibson + a tier 1 TE as a contingency plan? I have a difficult time believing he'd bring in Gibson in addition to MW, unless Bess is being shopped. (He's due approx 2.7 million in '13, 750k is guaranteed.) Even if Wallace is given a low 1st year cap number, reeling with Gibson to add to Wallace/Hartline/Bess instead of a seam-threat TE wouldn't make much sense. That said, this is Bess' last year of his contract ...
 
Rashard Mendenhall has also been linked to the Fins. He's been a bit injury-prone of late, but he's still young (25), has been successful in the recent past, and is a scheme fit. I'm all for bringing in a moderately-priced veteran to pair up with Miller. 
 

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pdaj said:
I'm very optimistic about the Dolphins landing Wallace, but I refuse to get all hyped about it until it's official. Fool me twice, shame on me. Miami has seemingly set the market, and there's plenty of time remaining for another team to swoop in.
 
pdaj, what contract numbers are you expecting and will be shocked/happy by it?
 

pdaj

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SeoulSoxFan said:
pdaj, what contract numbers are you expecting and will be shocked/happy by it?
 
I'm expecting around 5/60+, with a lot of guaranteed money. If another team pushes the envelope (i.e. Minny now that they've traded Harvin), I see Miami going 6 years. Wallace will only be 32 in his final season, but that's a long time for such a physical game. For that reason, I'd rather see the Fins offer 5/65, with less guaranteed.
 
If it gets into the 14 range (which I'd be shocked by), with sufficient guaranteed money, I'd prefer to see the Dolphins go with Jennings (8 per), Gibson (5 per), and Bennett/Cook/Keller (5-6 per). For a few coin more, that's full arsenal of weapons for Tanny. 
 
 
 

sodenj5

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pdaj said:
 
I'm expecting around 5/60+, with a lot of guaranteed money. If another team pushes the envelope (i.e. Minny now that they've traded Harvin), I see Miami going 6 years. Wallace will only be 32 in his final season, but that's a long time for such a physical game. For that reason, I'd rather see the Fins offer 5/65, with less guaranteed.
 
If it gets into the 14 range (which I'd be shocked by), with sufficient guaranteed money, I'd prefer to see the Dolphins go with Jennings (8 per), Gibson (5 per), and Bennett/Cook/Keller (5-6 per). For a few coin more, that's full arsenal of weapons for Tanny. 
 
 
I was thinking about the same. 5/60 seems about right given the contract Bowe signed. It's pricey, but that's te going rate for top notch receivers.

If Minny swoops in and signs Wallace now with Harvin gone, I'll officially be really disappointed.
 

pdaj

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sodenj5 said:
I was thinking about the same. 5/60 seems about right given the contract Bowe signed. It's pricey, but that's te going rate for top notch receivers.

If Minny swoops in and signs Wallace now with Harvin gone, I'll officially be really disappointed.
 
Schefter said on M&M today that the Vikings won't go after Wallace, even following today's Harvin deal. He expects Wallace to sign with Miami.
 

Clears Cleaver

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HArtline's cap number this year will only be $2.12M (20% of the $7m signing bonus and $715K in salary). The cap number goes up to $6M+ next year.
 

mcaqua

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pdaj said:
Is it 4:00 yet? Geez, I feel like an 8-year-old wating for X-Mas.
 
Here's hoping Wallace is a Dolphin by 4:01.
 
Giving Wallace $12 million a year will be disastrous for all the reasons mentioned up-thread that everyone seems willing to gloss over. 
 
Fact is, Ireland sorely miscalculated the WR market last year and now appears ready to overcompensate.
 
Whistling past the graveyard, IMO.
 

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pdaj said:
I just read that a short while ago. Awesome.
 
As a Patriots fan I think it's awesome.  The superlow cap figures in year one generally come back to bite you down the road.
 

sodenj5

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mcaqua said:
 
Giving Wallace $12 million a year will be disastrous for all the reasons mentioned up-thread that everyone seems willing to gloss over. 
 
Fact is, Ireland sorely miscalculated the WR market last year and now appears ready to overcompensate.
 
Whistling past the graveyard, IMO.
I don't think anyone's glossing over his short comings. Mike Wallace has 32 TDs in his first 4 years, and likely would have been higher if Big Ben wasn't hurt last year. In their first 4 years in the league, only Randy Moss, Colston, and Megatron have more TDs. That's it. Moss had 52 (insane), Fitz had 34, and Megatron and Colston both had 33.

He's also the premiere deep threat in the NFL, and one of the most explosive offensive players in the league. Guys like that usually don't hit the market just as they're entering their prime. When they do, you pay them. It's that simple. He brings something to the table that Miami desperately needs. He makes both Hartline and Bess better.

If Miami signs Wallace and adds a pass catching TE, their offense goes from a joke to very serious in a hurry.
 

Clears Cleaver

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Shelterdog said:
As a Patriots fan I think it's awesome.  The superlow cap figures in year one generally come back to bite you down the road.
 
eh, this is not a big deal. if they cut him after this year it wouldn't be devasting against the cap. Only $12M guaranteed. If a guy like Wallace got cut it would be worse. But I agree that in a year when you have a ton of cap space, why would you construct this contract that way? unless they are going to be very active, you'd think they'd do it the other way and front-end load.  
 
We'll see
 

mcaqua

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sodenj5 said:
I don't think anyone's glossing over his short comings. Mike Wallace has 32 TDs in his first 4 years, and likely would have been higher if Big Ben wasn't hurt last year.

He's also the premiere deep threat in the NFL, and one of the most explosive offensive players in the league. Guys like that usually don't hit the market just as they're entering their prime. When they do, you pay them. It's that simple. He brings something to the table that Miami desperately needs. He makes both Hartline and Bess better.

If Miami signs Wallace and adds a pass catching TE, their offense goes from a joke to very serious in a hurry.
 
You make it sound as though Wallace is an elite talent.  He's talented, but he's most definitely not elite.
 
He lacks physicality and has no wiggle in the open field.  He only plays one WR position and is not a precise route runner (of the routes that he can actually run).  He is the very definition of one-dimensional and he's a terrible fit for this offense.  Yet here we are excited for the privilege to pay him $12 million per for the next 5 or 6 years.
 
I understand that we have a ton of money and not much to choose from on the FA market in terms of skill position guys, but whose fault is that?  Whose ingenious plan was it for the Dolphins to free up all this money under the cap and have no one to spend it on?
 

Clears Cleaver

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guys in FL reporting Wallace and Jared Cook, the TE from TN, are likely to be Dolphins. Cook would be a shock but might be a bigger get than Wallace. If they do both, its probably $15M against the cap, leaving them roughly $10M more (before cost of draft picks) to get 2CBs, a FS and a tackle
 

sodenj5

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mcaqua said:
 
You make it sound as though Wallace is an elite talent.  He's talented, but he's most definitely not elite.
 
He lacks physicality and has no wiggle in the open field.  He only plays one WR position and is not a precise route runner (of the routes that he can actually run).  He is the very definition of one-dimensional and he's a terrible fit for this offense.  Yet here we are excited for the privilege to pay him $12 million per for the next 5 or 6 years.
 
I understand that we have a ton of money and not much to choose from on the FA market in terms of skill position guys, but whose fault is that?  Whose ingenious plan was it for the Dolphins to free up all this money under the cap and have no one to spend it on?
That's where I disagree. Wallace's talent is absolutely elite. The guy scores touchdowns. Period. Just because he doesn't run precise routes or consistently move the chains, or get pummeled over the middle like Welker doesn't mean he's not one of the very best at what he does.

He is a threat to score a touchdown on every. Single. Play. Defenses have to respect that and gameplan around that. He is also better in the open field than you're giving him credit for. He doesn't score touchdowns just on go routes. He has plenty of scores where he takes a slant route and takes it 50 yards to the house.

He's been one of the most productive receivers in the league since his rookie year. He's just now entering his prime. I still don't know what there is to dislike about him.
 

Mystic Merlin

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The fact his yards per catch have plummeted since 2009-10?
 
2009 - 19.4
2010 - 21.0
2011 - 16.6
2012 - 13.3
 
 
The Big Ben argument is strange, because he played the latter part of 2011 hurt (badly), and actually missed more games in '10 than '12.  Despite his age, he's not exactly trending well.
 

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sodenj5 said:
That's where I disagree. Wallace's talent is absolutely elite. The guy scores touchdowns. Period. Just because he doesn't run precise routes or consistently move the chains, or get pummeled over the middle like Welker doesn't mean he's not one of the very best at what he does.

He is a threat to score a touchdown on every. Single. Play. Defenses have to respect that and gameplan around that. He is also better in the open field than you're giving him credit for. He doesn't score touchdowns just on go routes. He has plenty of scores where he takes a slant route and takes it 50 yards to the house.

He's been one of the most productive receivers in the league since his rookie year. He's just now entering his prime. I still don't know what there is to dislike about him.
Most of what you've written here is true. But given all this, don't you think it's a red flag that the Steelers (one of the best-run organizations in sports) appear to have zero interest in re-signing him?
 

mcaqua

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Mystic Merlin said:
The fact his yards per catch have plummeted since 2009-10?
 
2009 - 19.4
2010 - 21.0
2011 - 16.6
2012 - 13.3
 
 
The Big Ben argument is strange, because he played the latter part of 2011 hurt (badly), and actually missed more games in '10 than '12.  Despite his age, he's not exactly trending well.
 
Not to mention, his game is subject to a law of diminishing returns, so to speak.  I'll just post this little except because its written better than I could ever hope to explain it.
 
 
I put together a "peer" group that included Larry Fitzgerald, Calvin
Johnson, Andre Johnson, Brandon Marshall, Percy Harvin, Dwayne Bowe,
Vincent Jackson and Hakeem Nicks. From a financial standpoint, the first
7 of those guys are no-brainers as they are very literally his
financial peers in terms of money being made. The final guy Hakeem Nicks
is from the same draft class as Wallace and I think he's going to break
the bank just as much.

I think naturally the more times in a game you go to a guy the less he's
going to average in terms of yards per attempt. Therefore it's
unsurprising to see a -8% correlation between the two stats in the peer
group. But with Mike Wallace you have a much higher negative correlation
at -26%. The more he gets the ball, the worse he does. His yards per
attempt goes from 11.95 in games where he was thrown the ball 5 times or
less, to 9.25 in games where he's thrown the ball 6 to 10 times, to
7.96 in games where he's thrown the ball 11+ times. The peer group
actually goes from 9.16 on games where they get thrown the ball up to 5
times to 9.18 on games where they're thrown to 6 to 10 times. Then they
tail off to 8.53 on games where they're thrown to 11+ times.

The thing that worries me here is that nearly half (31 of 67, 46%) of
Mike Wallace's games fit into that category where he was thrown the
football 5 times or less in the game. And hell if you just bump the
threshold up 1 tick to 6 attempts or fewer, that covers nearly 2/3rds of
his games (41 of 67, 61%). With the peer group, only 20% of their games
fall into the category of being thrown the football 5 times or less
(and that only jumps to 28% if you bump the threshold up to 6 attempts
or less).

The answer for everyone seems to be that's OK because we can just use
Mike Wallace the same way he was used in Pittsburgh. We'll not use him
like a real #1, we'll just throw him the ball sparingly and deep at the
right moments. I just don't see that working, once you pay him $13
million a year. You have to imagine how it's going to be if the Dolphins
sit there and lose a football game 21-17 and they only threw the
football at Mike Wallace maybe 5 times in the game. You know,
statistically speaking if 3 of those throws were deep balls, between
Ryan Tannehill missing the throw (which happens to every QB) and Mike
Wallace dropping it (which happens to every receiver), only 1 of those 3
will be complete. That's just reality for you. The average catch from
among that peer group will gain you about 36 yards with a 1 in 3 chance
that it ends up a touchdown.

So you come out of a game with the stat line for your $13 million a year
wide receiver that looks like 3 catches for 61 yards. And that would be
about half of his games. Do you really see that happening? I don't. I
think if he's a $13 million a year guy he's going to be targeted a lot.
There's going to be pressure to target him a bunch.
 
He forces defenses to respect the deep ball, but as mentioned up thread, you don't need to pay someone $13M to have that effect for you.
 
http://www.thephins.com/forums/showthread.php?75293-PFT-Vikings-Prepared-to-give-Wallace-13-Million-per-year/page10
 

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Super Nomario said:
Most of what you've written here is true. But given all this, don't you think it's a red flag that the Steelers (one of the best-run organizations in sports) appear to have zero interest in re-signing him?
Zero interest is not accurate. They offered him a contract before the season started at 5 yrs/55mill, which Wallace rejected. After that, they turned around and handed a bunch of money to Antonio Brown.
 

Shelterdog

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sodenj5 said:
Zero interest is not accurate. They offered him a contract before the season started at 5 yrs/55mill, which Wallace rejected. After that, they turned around and handed a bunch of money to Antonio Brown.
 
Source? I highly, highly doubt that number--and that's before we begin to talk structure, guaranties, etc. 
 

Clears Cleaver

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$25M signing bonus. $6M or so against the cap this year
 
Omar/armando implying that Woodsen is close as the new FS and Jared Cook is top target (competing with other teams there) to play TE
 
Fish are structuring these deals to be very cap friendly THIS year, so you'd expect them to sign at least two ior three more name FAs
 

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Clears Cleaver said:
$25M signing bonus. $6M or so against the cap this year
 
Omar/armando implying that Woodsen is close as the new FS and Jared Cook is top target (competing with other teams there) to play TE
 
Fish are structuring these deals to be very cap friendly THIS year, so you'd expect them to sign at least two ior three more name FAs
 
5 years, 57 million is the latest rumored number for Wallace. 11.5/year. Much better than the original 13 million rumored. Bring me Jared Cook.
 

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sodenj5 said:
5 years, 57 million is the latest rumored number for Wallace. 11.5/year. Much better than the original 13 million rumored. Bring me Jared Cook.
 
All the national guys are stil saying 5/65 although the raw numbers don't matter nearly so much as the structure.
 

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Looks like they're employing the 2009-2010 Jets cap strategy in Miami. Huge contracts, but with delayed cap hits. Doesn't make much sense to me with that team, but we'll see. They may be dangerous next year.
 

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Ed Hillel said:
Looks like they're employing the 2009-2010 Jets cap strategy in Miami. Huge contracts, but with delayed cap hits. Doesn't make much sense to me with that team, but we'll see. They may be dangerous next year.
 
I have mixed feelings personally, but if true, it seems clear that Ireland is in go-for-broke mode.  I'm sure he's acutely aware of the short leash he's on.
 

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Wallace to finish his physical and sign his contract around 6:00 PM tonight.
 

Clears Cleaver

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now Omar saying Fish might be trading for Jermichael Finley if they don't get Cook. Might be similar to the SF deal for Boldin as the Packers don't want to pay Finely a $3.8M roster bonus and $4.5M salary
 

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Clears Cleaver said:
now Omar saying Fish might be trading for Jermichael Finley if they don't get Cook. Might be similar to the SF deal for Boldin as the Packers don't want to pay Finely a $3.8M roster bonus and $4.5M salary
 
I think that was pure speculation on his part. Keep in mind if they can't land Cook, they're in the position to draft Eifert, should they choose to do so. This can still go a lot of different ways. 
 

Clears Cleaver

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 Cook is in Miami and choosing between Fish and Rams.
 
Omar confirms cap hit is $6M for Wallace this year, leaving $25M for FAs, trades and draft picks ($6M or so)