https://twitter.com/jasonlacanfora/status/443205120885817344RedOctober3829 said:
I want Talib and Revis now, get it done Bill
Revis Island to be annexed to Foxboro?
- Thread starter SeoulSoxFan
- Start date
- Status
I want Talib and Revis now, get it done Bill
If true, the talking with Revis while negotiating with Talib reminds me of the Welker/Amendola dance last offseason.
Please get something done, for as noted in another thread, the offense just sustained another setback with Dobson.
Please get something done, for as noted in another thread, the offense just sustained another setback with Dobson.
Dobson is just limited to film study for the next two to three months if the report is credible. I thought offseason development and progression from year 1 to 2 would depend on work during OTAs and mini- camp. But maybe I am naive. More than a few people were banking on such development and progression --it is natural to assume it and so forth.
The arguments for the view that the Patriots' will trade for Revis is that the Patriots are pretty much the only team in the NFL who think it's a good idea to spend more on a star CB (with a history of leg problems) than on Tom Brady? And for this luxury, the Patriots are willing to give up the most of any team in the NFL in a trade? Further, since everyone knows it's silly to think the Pats will spend almost 1/4 of their cap on two players, the view is instead that the Patriots plan to play a, "we'll worry about the cap hits in the future" strategy to make it all work?
Nice try, media.
Nice try, media.
SJH, the only way that would happen is if the clause in Revis' current deal was exercised and his cap hit would be minimal. But, it's going to not matter because he will be released.Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
RedOctober3829 said:
And if that clause is triggered then his cap hit in later years will be even larger, and we know the Pats don't operate that way.
Yeah, if he's released all this is moot.
RedOctober3829 said:
Exactly. We've still got the OL and DL to worry about. Plus Spikes is leaving.
I don't think that reasoning applies to the current off season because of Hernandez's cap hit of $7.5 million. They have not had to deal with such a significant dead money cap hit for one player in any recent season.Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
I understand the concept of amortization but how is this a good argument for having a dead cap hit of ~$8M+ or a ~$20M+ cap hit on an active Revis in 2015?Domer said:
I don't see it.
Note: I'm guessing cap numbers without even knowing the length of the contract but it doesn't change anything.
None of this works without Revis agreeing to a different contract than the one he has today. In that case the calculus changes for every other team as well.
Edit: removed wording that sounded unintentionally snarky
The restructuring of the Revis contract would take $10 million owed to him for the current season and spread the cap hit over 5 years. Therefore his current season cap hit would be $8 million less (coincidentally close to the $7.5 million set aside for Hernandez) and his four future cap hits would be $2 million more. In effect, the real cap dollars are less, due to the fact that the cap is expected to increase over the course of the contract. I don't think that is poor cap management.amarshal2 said:
If you want to argue Revis is overpaid, that's probably accurate, but it really doesn't have to do with the decisions made on the margins. If the team brings in an expensive cornerback this offseason, it ought to proactively minimize the current season cap hit because of their unique dead money circumstances—even if they haven't done so in the past. I think taking $8 million in cap space this season in exchange for giving up $2 million over the next four is a good idea. That's all.amarshal2 said:
Domer said:
So you like the idea of amortizing money to compensate for Hernandez in theory but agree it's bad cap management to either...
-pay Revis an exorbitant salary in 2015 onward or
-simply move the $8M in dead weight cap hit to 2015 year thereby nullifying (or very close to it) the benefit in 2014
Yes? Sounds like we're on the same page
amarshal2 said:
Apologies if I am misunderstanding you, but you can't just move the 8 million to next year, since the contract has five years left and that 8 million would be converted to a bonus. It has to be spread evenly throughout the years. If he's cut before that time period, I believe the entirity of what is owed to him over the remaining years will at that moment, and leave nothing left owed in the future. I think they can probably repeat the same process every year of the contract, in terms of transferring base to bonus, but then you're adding a bigger hit to subsequent years or increasing the insta-hit to the cap if he's ever released.
If I were the Pats, I would have already spoken to Revis and his agent about the type of contract they'd be willing to take, under a different structure. If they're on the same page, send over the 5th or whatever it would cost to get him and work out that new deal. You may say he could just wait to be a free agent, but I think the 5th is worth eradicating any risk of his hitting the open market. The only question I have is the extent to which a team and a player can essentally re-write a contract. You don't want to get into a situation where you have to trade for him and then release him, and hope he holds to his word.
Ed Hillel said:
That's exactly what I'm saying. If they select a base salary for Revis of $6M in 2014 and convert $10M to bonus spread evenly over 5 years they would have a cap hit of $8M in 2014 then either a cap hit of $18M (+Revis) in 2015 or a cap hit of $8M if they cut him.
Revis is not a difference maker and should not be targeted by a team that has no pass rush, whatever the price might be.
There's also the option to do another restructure in 2015. As Revis ages, his leverage goes down a bit.amarshal2 said:
According to Rapoport CLE may be in on Revis. They have a ton of cap space and pairing Revis and Haden would be filthy.
https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/443408491512733696
https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/443408491512733696
Revis has uncanny physical skills, but he is also like TB a film fanatic who absorbs offenses each week until he can sense what's coming; he's a perfection-ist who gets furious if a pass is caught on him in practice; he's a TB-type leader held in awe by his defense.
j44thor said:
There is no doubt that Revis can get much more money from Cleveland or Oakland. But he should know that if he does, he hurts his legacy and becomes a certified mercenary. Deion took a one-year deal for $1M with San Francisco before cashing in with Dallas and grabbing the title of "best CB of all time (recent memory)".
Revis can demand $10M+ for one season and get it from any of his suitors. And if/when he wins a Super Bowl, he gets a lead on this generation's "best CB" contest to go with "best paid CB of his generation" (already locked that part up).
IOW, we'll figure out whether the "Revis is a money obsessed mercenary" theory is true by what he does this offseason. If he's interested in more than just the cash championship, he'll take a deal with Denver or New England or another legit contender. If he just wants the biggest bank account*, he can get that from Oakland or Cleveland and can "lead" a team to 4-6 wins a season.
* FWIW, I support all NFL players getting as much as they can, as often as they can. It is why Brady is so exceptional - he has forfeited the "biggest bank account" contest to Peyton and has taken better-for-the-team contracts multiple times. And that's an aberration in the NFL. Careers are so short. For all I know, Revis is pouring his money back into his hometown in some way or maybe he just wants to have a lot of cars or something. He deserves it. He's fucking great. And no matter how much he gets paid, it will be a single-digit percentage of what his "owner" is worth.
jsinger121 said:
Eh, I don't think it's as simple as a money grab on his part. If he realizes he's not making $16M next season, either because he restructures or gets cut and has to sign a new cheaper deal elsewhere, why would he help out the Bucs? He restructures and they get to decide where he goes. He refuses, gets cut, then he gets to decide where he goes. Which would you choose?
He's played the TB poker hand pretty well in my opinion. Why allow them to determine where he plays next year and get him to cut his own money to make it happen. Just call their bluff, and the options are pretty clear...play at the current contract in TB or be a free agent.
I'd say he's playing it right.
I'd say he's playing it right.
Tampa owes him $3M on Thursday AND the pick going to NYJ to complete the trade becomes a 3rd rounder if Revis is still on the roster.
Any team can trade for his existing contract, and using the clause Volin reported on, pay him any amount in 2014 and beyond. Revis knows this and his camp leaking interest in Oakland or Cleveland is leverage on Tampa not to trade him. And it won't work. Revis will be traded - likely for the 4th Tampa has to surrender to NYJ regardless, by the deadline to do it.
Any team can trade for his existing contract, and using the clause Volin reported on, pay him any amount in 2014 and beyond. Revis knows this and his camp leaking interest in Oakland or Cleveland is leverage on Tampa not to trade him. And it won't work. Revis will be traded - likely for the 4th Tampa has to surrender to NYJ regardless, by the deadline to do it.
If you wanted him in trade, wouldn't you just take the chance that you could sign him less that $16m/per once he becomes a free agent. I know you are now up against other teams, but why strap yourself with that salary when you can be the highest bidder in a few days and pay less and structure it better?
The cap shenanigans only help you this year.
The cap shenanigans only help you this year.
That only works if no one else trades for him. So you are taking two gambles. One that no other team trades for him and secondly, that you can sign him as a FA. Maybe you outbid everyone else but Revis still decides he would prefer to play elsewhere.PaulinMyrBch said:
Yeah, except they were top 10 in sacks and adjusted sack rate, and, you know, being able to cover might just help the pass rush a little.ifmanis5 said:
PaulinMyrBch said:
I would not take that chance Paul. Worst case scenario, a team trades that hypothetical 4th round pick to Tampa, tries to exercise the clause and convert salary to bonus and Revis refuses to play for you and retires or fails to report. In which case, you lost a 4th round pick but the cap hit for Revis disappears when he goes on the reserve/NFI list.
But trading for him nearly guarantees (excepting the scenario above) at some number less than $16M for your team in 2014. Yes, you have to pay the $3M roster bonus but the salary can be converted to a bonus (without his consent?) and spread over multiple seasons, lowering the cap number for 2014. As long as Revis gets his $16M the NFLPA has no grievance. Whether it is bonus or salary or a mixture of both, he gets paid. And you get the player.
Letting him be cut doesn't cost the draft pick but does raise the likelihood that Oakland pays him $30M/season just to make it to the cap spend regulations from 13-16.
I don't think Revis would be at all unhappy to continue playing for $16 MM a year, a figure which makes him by far the highest-paid CB in the game - at least for the next couple seasons. The issue is that teams don't want to pay him that much. Tampa doesn't want to, and apparently no one really does in the trade market, either. If teams thought his contract was a bargain, they'd be one-upping each other to try to trade for him; instead they all seem to be banking that they can sign him for less after the Bucs cut him.soxfan121 said:
Super Nomario said:
I disagree. Oakland has so many roster holes and so much cap room, that trading for him at $16M doesn't make sense. Signing him to a $20M deal though lets them fill two holes (CB and whomever they spend the pick on) while also letting them use their oodles of cap room.
ETA: I do think Revis is fine at $16M, my response is to why there is a slow trade market for him among teams with lots of cap space.
At $16 MM / year they lose the pick, but gain $4 MM (relative to your $20) to spend on someone else, plus they can walk away at any time and / or convert some of the salary to guaranteed to lower the short-term cap hit (irrelevant for now, but could matter later). Everything about Revis' current contract is favorable to the team except for how expensive it is; if a team was willing to pay Revis $20 MM they'd have to be salivating over the terms of his current deal at considerably less.soxfan121 said:
But at any rate ... even if that would make sense for Oakland, if there was a second team willing to pay more than $16 MM, you'd think there would be a bidding war to lock Revis in at $16 MM. If Oakland and Jacksonville both think he's a bargain at $16 MM, wouldn't they be trying to trade for him at that price instead of banking on being able to sign him for more after he's cut? And if there isn't a second team willing to go above $16 MM, I doubt Oakland's going to just hand him $4 MM extra.
Bottom line: I'll be surprised if his new contract is > $16 MM AAV and I'll be stunned if his 2014 cap hit is > $16 MM AAV.
- Status